2010.06.30 13:00 - Aspect of Self Through Avatar

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.


    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fef
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you today ?
    Fefonz Quan: hey yaku
    Fefonz Quan: very good, and you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i try to keep myself distracted
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing serious :)
    Fefonz Quan: distracted from what?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: different issues, my approach to second life and how i can find contacts i can elaborate upon further
    Yakuzza Lethecus: then a contact who isn´t comming online for 3-4 days
    Fefonz Quan: i didn't understand the answer, but never mind
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so what are your latest thoughts concerning ur use of secondlife/kira/pab ?
    Fefonz Quan: I like being at pab, i wish i could be here more, the busy RL live doesn't leave me much time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello crusty
    Fefonz Quan: hello crusty\
    Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
    Yakuzza Lethecus: crusty ur mic is on
    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least it was for a short while
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nvm
    Fefonz Quan: wht was for a short while?
    Crusty Goldshark: what is nvm?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nevermind, but there it was again
    Yakuzza Lethecus: can you stop ur mic propably ? anyway nice to see you again
    Crusty Goldshark: should be off now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Fefonz Quan: hey calvino
    Crusty Goldshark: hey calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone !
    Crusty Goldshark: :)
    Fefonz Quan: hello Zaldaan
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Hello as in, "Peace!"?
    Fefonz Quan: well i guess :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello zaldaan
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Well, I hope you're day is going well so far
    Zaldaan Sirnah: I guess
    Zaldaan Sirnah: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks, Zal. Here we are again :) And what shall we do with this irreplacable resource of Time ?
    Zaldaan Sirnah: We should be quiet and make proper use of our time here. :)
    Fefonz Quan: hello sartre
    Fefonz Quan: i guess you've been here before, haven't you?
    Sartre Placebo: yaku here
    Sartre Placebo: pil island got a discussion on kierkegaard
    Sartre Placebo: but i only got age verification on yakuzza
    Calvino Rabeni: sartre, I know you and yaku have attended many philosophy discussions in SL
    Fefonz Quan: ok good to see youy then :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I wonder if you can help me appreciate their value a bit more than I do
    Sartre Placebo: the value of the discussions ?
    Calvino Rabeni: as the ones I have attended - I'm not really sure why I would go to them
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the discussions are not very easy to learn from, for me
    Calvino Rabeni: and I think, mainly arguments, if you know what I mean
    Sartre Placebo: actually, you see the ppl whom are able to discuss the topics and you see those who can´t
    Calvino Rabeni: and not too good at sticking to the topic :)
    Sartre Placebo: i consider myself not able to discuss those philosophical topics well
    Calvino Rabeni: - enough said I hope, since I don't like to criticize
    Fefonz Quan: argument can be useful, if done with good manners
    Sartre Placebo: but there are some ppl i often find whom i could ask something sometimes
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe, Fef, but I haven't seen it happen much
    Fefonz Quan: i can speak from recent experience, haven't spent much time here lately.
    Fefonz Quan: but whta i remember from the past, when profound topics where discussed, concerning the practice and viewponts we see here, it was very interesting
    Fefonz Quan: surely it needs some focus on the topic, not just chit chat around.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I often find it interesting in PAB, but haven't much enjoyed the philosophy groups in SL
    Fefonz Quan: ah, i see.
    Sartre Placebo: they ain´t professional philosophy, of course not cal
    Calvino Rabeni: so that is what I was asking about - e.g. discussing kirkegaard, or kohlberg
    Sartre Placebo: but for example www.thephilosophyclass.blogspot.com is really great
    Sartre Placebo: but herman is doing a summerbreak now
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you, make use of muting, to filter out the ones who go off topic and and engage in flame bait?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, there are some good philosophy blogs on the net, I've found
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm just not sure the value of the discussion formats in SL
    Fefonz Quan: I've never used it, neither i remember seenig someone else do it. maybe once.
    Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I was going to ask Rhi - for example - "why is it you do this?"
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Blue :)
    Sartre Placebo: hey bleu :)
    Fefonz Quan: hey bleu!
    Calvino Rabeni: And I admire her snappy mind and ability to somewhat handle the chaos of such groups
    Sartre Placebo: actually, rhi is extremly controversial and there is a lot of gossiping about her around
    Calvino Rabeni: :) that's surely true also :)
    Fefonz Quan: friends, i will have to leave, it's late here and i am really tired. take care, and have a good night/evening.
    Bleu Oleander: nite Fefonz
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)
    Fefonz Quan: night all _/!\_
    Sartre Placebo: night fef
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Zaldaan Sirnah: whatever that symbol is, I believe I'm seeing it wrong.
    Sartre Placebo: namaste
    Calvino Rabeni: You're right, there is a "side show" around Rhi
    Wol Euler: hello cal, zaldaan, sartre, bleu
    Sartre Placebo: hey wol :)
    Bleu Oleander: hey Wol
    Wol Euler: side show of what?
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Qt
    Qt Core: hi all
    Sartre Placebo: hey qt
    Wol Euler: hello qt
    Sartre Placebo: of the character rhiannon around philosophy island
    Wol Euler: ah
    Wol Euler will wait to read the log :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, there gets to be a kind of Fight Club quality to it
    Sartre Placebo: if it´s a guy called scott or other disruptive behavior and alike... many uncertain things
    Sartre Placebo: yeah
    Calvino Rabeni: and maybe that attracts people
    Sartre Placebo: actually when i am interested into philosophy itself i look to itunesU and other lectures
    Calvino Rabeni: "philosophy smackdown!"
    Sartre Placebo: secondlife provides the option to fine sometimes ppl to talk to
    Sartre Placebo: it´s good to have those on the fiendshiplist
    Calvino Rabeni: I agree, and there are some good youtube collections with real philosophers too
    Sartre Placebo: nods
    Sartre Placebo: even some 70th 80th recordings are still great
    Calvino Rabeni: True, Sartre, you can find good dialogue friends in those groups sometimes
    Calvino Rabeni: But I start to feel guilty
    Calvino Rabeni: When young, I thought I'd live forever :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Now it seems, time becomes more and more valuable
    Calvino Rabeni: (not to exaggerate, but you know that spiritual metaphor of death being over ones shoudler)
    Sartre Placebo: i often have a rough time to communicate the things i am percieving and thinking about
    Sartre Placebo: i don´t believe that i think in lanuguage and pab for example also is partly a process to verbalize issues of daily routines
    Sartre Placebo: to find a common vocabulary, of course dropping, appreaciate the presence of apprearances as presentation of being and alike
    Calvino Rabeni: The huge majority of experiences are simply unexpressible - I think it's something to get accustomed to, because we can't struggle to be more articulate and eventually succeed at that struggle
    Wol Euler: hello lucis, have you been here before?
    Lucis Raynier: yes
    Lucis Raynier: hi all
    Wol Euler: ok, just checking :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Lucis
    Bleu Oleander: hi Lucis
    Qt Core: hi Lucis
    Lucis Raynier: hi Bleu
    Lucis Raynier: hi Qt
    Sartre Placebo: hey lucis
    Lucis Raynier: hey Sartre
    Calvino Rabeni: hehe, that avatar Lucis, the snake represents Ego ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Just kidding, but it could make a good metaphor
    Wol Euler: indeed.
    Wol Euler: very different to the cobra that protected the Buddha :)
    Lucis Raynier: meep
    Wol Euler: (if I remember that story/image rightly)
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it seems like - every human has one of those things wrapped around him / herself, but pretending it isn't actully there
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: at laest one :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, at *least* :)
    Lucis Raynier: in RL I feellike this
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni imagines a Theme Session - "Wear a Serpent to PAB Day"
    Wol Euler: sorry to hear it, lucis; but good that you are aware of it
    Calvino Rabeni: So that image can be a good illustration for a feeling - making it clearer perhaps
    Wol Euler nods.
    Calvino Rabeni: Wol understands this well, I guessed
    Wol Euler: that could be a PaB-Art project :)
    Sartre Placebo: sleep well everyone
    Wol Euler: bye sartre, take care
    Bleu Oleander: bye Sartre
    Bleu Oleander: could :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And happy contemplations :)
    Lucis Raynier: bb Sartre
    Wol Euler nods to Calvino. Expressing feelings through appearance
    Bleu Oleander makes note for future project
    Wol Euler grins
    Lucis Raynier: I'm sorry my internet very slow
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Bleu, I kind of like that possibility you might be thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: how to express some aspect of self, through avatar
    Calvino Rabeni: a kind of costume, to reveal more than conceal
    Bleu Oleander: great ideas
    Wol Euler: I'd thought of something similar as a workshop exercise
    Bleu Oleander: maybe combo workshop/art project?
    Wol Euler: to decorate a prim to represent yourself
    Wol Euler: indeed, that would be good.
    Wol Euler: cross-fertilization, or some such idea
    Bleu Oleander: interdisciplinary?
    Wol Euler: that too
    Lucis Raynier: ethereal snake in RL i feel around my body
    Qt Core: nice, i cou;d be bad in two fields at the same time ;-)
    Lucis Raynier: please visit our esoterc bookshop in Moscow ))
    Wol Euler: ah! I remember you now, yes :)
    Wol Euler: I guess we are all imagining our prim representations
    Wol Euler: *self-representations
    Bleu Oleander: wheels turning :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, no, I was involved in a separate issue in IM
    Wol Euler smiles. Me too actually.
    Calvino Rabeni: It would be good to have some tutorials on avatars
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't know the basics
    Wol Euler nods. Let's add that to the workshop!
    Calvino Rabeni: of what you can do to modify them
    Wol Euler: there will definitely be sessions on the apperance editor
    Wol Euler: and modifying worn prims
    Calvino Rabeni: How does the box-bot avatar work?
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, I saw one that looked like a Tea Tray
    Wol Euler: and I'd like to put Bleu on the spot in public by inviting her to talk about making clothes from painted textures
    Bleu Oleander: when is your workshop?
    Calvino Rabeni: with food on it
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Wol Euler: it'll be this summer, probably starting in september
    Wol Euler: but have to clear this with Kira still.
    Bleu Oleander: could do the art project during the workshop
    Qt Core: a building workshop ?
    Wol Euler: a "SL-ness of SL" workshop, on character and identity and appearance
    Wol Euler: how they are created and displayed here
    Wol Euler: and how they reinforce each other
    Bleu Oleander: using that theme for the art project also?
    Wol Euler: yes
    Bleu Oleander: fun
    Qt Core: so we can have an av rapresenting sl we instead being the other way around, interesting ;)
    Wol Euler: that arose some months ago actually, when qt first wore a pure cube avatar
    Wol Euler: I thought "if he put a Star Trek communicator badge on, everyone would know it was him"
    Wol Euler: and then thought onwards
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Wol Euler: Fef: red top, blue bottom
    Wol Euler: Yaku: fleshpink top, rest black
    Wol Euler: me: black latex and lace
    Wol Euler grinds
    Wol Euler: *grins
    Calvino Rabeni: :))
    Calvino Rabeni: Slip of the day :)
    Bleu Oleander: me?
    Wol Euler: yep :)=
    Wol Euler: well, you and very tricky because you change appearance all the time
    Bleu Oleander: so easy in sl
    Wol Euler: but are always very colourful and full of swirly semirandom patterns
    Wol Euler: so that suggests a texture that could be primwrapped
    Qt Core: and skinny and tall
    Wol Euler: I've got it (bleu):
    Wol Euler: a rubik's cube of your whaleshark-skin pattern in andy warhol colours :)
    Bleu Oleander: i like it :)
    Wol Euler grins.
    Wol Euler: I think it's a great exercise
    Wol Euler: but I can see that it might be intimidating to people who aren't comfortable with building or texturing
    Bleu Oleander: well we can work through the next art project first
    Wol Euler: so we might do htat one fairly late int he process, after people have had successful experiences doing other simpler exercises
    Bleu Oleander: which is basic building adding textures
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: and yes, cal, we could certainly do tutorials about htat
    Bleu Oleander: the "Being Puzzled" project
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, there were tech barriers to participation in the previous Art events
    Bleu Oleander: everyone was/is encouraged to work together and/or ask for help
    Calvino Rabeni: tutorials are not necessarily fun to produce, but they are helpful
    Wol Euler nods.
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure, but you know how that goes
    Bleu Oleander: I helped a few
    Bleu Oleander: Storm did too
    Calvino Rabeni: People don't like to ask, don't know what to ask, etc. for as much help as they could use
    Bleu Oleander: so maybe we should have a quick how-to session at the start of each project for those that would like it
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: good idea
    Wol Euler: true, cal, and yet this (SL) is one of the most concentratedly helpful and generous-with-time-and-knowledge places in the universe!
    Bleu Oleander: you can get some great effects using simple techniques
    Wol Euler: wb lucis
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Except for Planet Generosity.
    Lucis Raynier: what mean wb?
    Qt Core: welcome back
    Lucis Raynier: ok ty
    Wol Euler: execpt for Planet Generosity, yes :)
    Qt Core: what is Planet Generosity ?
    Bleu Oleander: gtg .... fun ideas for the workshop/art project ... bfn :)
    Wol Euler: SL residents are very much more helpful than is typical in other/older Internet communities
    Qt Core: bye Bleu
    Wol Euler: bye bleu, take care
    Lucis Raynier: bb bleu
    Qt Core: just thinking about people wandering in rl asking how to build a 3 storey house "by hand" ... and people giving answers too! :-)
    Wol Euler: try it, qt, it works.
    Wol Euler: you'd be directed very quickly to the Ivory Tower of Prims, a kind of 3d built tutorial on primbuilding
    Qt Core: (i told rl)
    Wol Euler is blind, and apologises profusely.
    Wol Euler: it wouldn't work so well in RL, that is very true
    Qt Core: i think i have my default landing place (i have no real home) a few hundred meters from that tower
    Lucis Raynier: nice to see you all/ I need to go in RL with my snake :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Qt Core: have fun, bye
    Wol Euler: take care, lucis.
    Wol Euler: in addition to everything else it is, SL is a concentrator of nice people, it brings them together and rewards them for being nice to each other
    Wol Euler: whereas much of RL seems to be a zero-sum game
    Wol Euler: where I can only win what you lose
    Qt Core: like, but at a higher level, all place/situation you choose to be in and have to work to be in
    Qt Core: the fun thing (just got this now may be wrong) is that in most of the other situations people have a goal in common here people have many different goals
    Wol Euler considers.
    Wol Euler: so we don't compete here, you mean?
    Wol Euler: that could be true, yes.
    Wol Euler: and there is definitely no shortage of material resources here
    Qt Core: yes and no
    Qt Core: i wasn't thinking about competing but about having different goal
    Qt Core: people seeking friendly or romantic relationship, just wasting time, doing whichever kind of rpg, having fun becoming a famous stylist ot architect
    Wol Euler: ah, right, yes.
    Qt Core: talking about being or just books
    Qt Core: speaking about books... yesterday i finished Infinite Jest (i toke it slow)... wanted to burn it at the (non) end
    Wol Euler: ha!
    Wol Euler: yes, my reaction too
    Calvino Rabeni: OI
    Wol Euler: I'll be curious to talk to you about it in another three or four months :)
    Wol Euler: what did you think?
    Calvino Rabeni: I tried it, thanks but no thanks :)
    Zaldaan Sirnah: brb
    Qt Core: not sure yet, maybe i have to let it settle down a couple day (i'm mostly sad about Pemulis and want to know about DOn and Hal
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: I loved it. It really spoke to me.
    Wol Euler: and the ending was odd and very irritating
    Calvino Rabeni: How did it speak to you Wol?
    Wol Euler: but then I thought: Doyou really think that someone as careful and controlled and thoughtful as DFW would let this happen by accident?
    Wol Euler: no
    Wol Euler: so it must have been an intention. SO what does it mean?
    Calvino Rabeni: Passive aggressive author?
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Qt Core: that life don't have closed ends ? or just not live happy after
    Wol Euler: DFW wrote so well about ordinariness, about normal life and dull daily things, in the setting of this novel about very extraordinary peop.
    Wol Euler: people
    Wol Euler: the chapter about the AA meeting was so good, I went back and read it again before continuing
    Wol Euler: and ever since then I see addiction and support groups in a different light
    Qt Core: yes, alll the Gately subplot was good
    Wol Euler: oh yes
    Wol Euler: and Madame Psychosis!"
    Wol Euler: I so desperately want to listen to her radio program
    Qt Core: i liked that in the end it (almost) tied all the plots (made me a little angry in the beginning)
    Qt Core: :-)
    Qt Core: we may have to ask to the GOC to put a spoilerr before this part of the session ;-)
    Wol Euler: yes, you're right. Big red spoiler alert needed
    Qt Core: my edition had a lot of notes (over 300) in the end wit some pieces several pages long additions (not in previous edition i think)
    Qt Core: most of them were a fast corse in narcoleptics and general drug use
    Wol Euler: ah, yes, the dozen-page-long footnotes
    Wol Euler: the footnotes with footnoes of their own :)
    Wol Euler: I read it with two bookmarks :)
    Qt Core: yes, i like real footnotes much more (especlialy Pratchett's ones)
    Qt Core: (i just switched one there and here
    Qt Core: haven't yet choosen the next book
    Wol Euler: what are you reading now?
    Qt Core: nothing, haven't choose yet
    Wol Euler: what?
    Wol Euler: do you really mean "nothing"?
    Wol Euler: how can you read *nothing*?
    Calvino Rabeni: If you're asking me, it's "A Year With Rilke"
    Qt Core: ended a book yesterday night have to choose another before going to bed
    Wol Euler: ah, ok :)
    Calvino Rabeni: some day perhaps a Literati will initiate me into the joys of the Novel
    Qt Core: is there a Novel titled book ?
    Qt Core: qite original...
    Wol Euler: I'm trying to think of whether I know any website to recommend to you, Cal, but all the ones I can think of right now are full of spoilers
    Wol Euler: I read it last summer, because a blogging buddy of mine was co-initiatrix of a web project thingy called "infinite summer"
    Wol Euler: to read the whole damned book in the course of summer holiday 2009
    Qt Core: time to go choosing a book ;-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight qt, choose wisely
    Wol Euler: wb zaldaan
    Qt Core: bye all, have fun and/or sleep well
    Wol Euler: "a year with rilke", eh?
    Zaldaan Sirnah: wb respectively
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, it is a collection of short passages or poems
    Calvino Rabeni: mostly selected with a kind of buddhist / mindfulness theme
    Wol Euler: heh
    Wol Euler: what a great secondary idea :)
    Calvino Rabeni: A bit like one of those "daily meditation" books
    Calvino Rabeni: A nice compilation, for people like me, too lazy to sift the originals :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: rilke was, how shall I put it, prolific.
    Wol Euler: there is a lot of sifting to be done
    Wol Euler: I like his poetry a lot, but I do sometimes wish he'd had an editor :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, thus the advantage of a collection such as this
    Calvino Rabeni: Here's a quote, pertaining to questioning / not-knowing
    Calvino Rabeni: "I want to ask you, as clearly as I can, to bear with patients all that is unresolved in your heart, and try to love the questions themselves, as if they were rooms yet to enter or books written in a foreign language. Don't dig for answers that can't be given you yet: you cannot live them now. For everything must be lived. Live the questions now, perhaps then, someday, you will gradually, without noticing, live into the answer."
    Calvino Rabeni: *patience, not "patients"
    Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
    Calvino Rabeni: heheh
    Wol Euler: APPPB: Appreciate the Presence of Poetry as a Presentaiton by Being
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm, there's been a break in the cloud cover of this afternoon summer day
    Calvino Rabeni: Carpe Sol
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: go for it.
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Wol / Zal
    Wol Euler: let's call it a day, then. It's been long enough
    Wol Euler: goodnight cal, enjoy the sun
    Calvino Rabeni: T
    Wol Euler: bye zaldaan, take care

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