2010.07.04 13:00 - Returning to basics

    Table of contents
    1. 1.  

    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    This session had several newcomers which allowed us to focus on the basics of PaB.  It was interesting to re-discover that among the several 'oldtimers' there were different descriptions re PaB basics, reflecting the slightly differing views of each person.  Not surprising, but in a way interesting to re-experience.  After the first hour, with several leaving and several coming the tone seemed to change more toward relaxed late night discussion.  

    I delete some of the intros.


    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey wol :)
    Farv Hallison: sorry for standing on you.
    Wol Euler: hello yaku, farv, maxine
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi max,kiki
    Farv Hallison: hello Kiki.
    Kiki Walpanheim waves
    Maxine Walden: hi, Wol, Yaku, Farv, Kiki
    Xeno Octavia: hi Kiki --u were just at Bryce's
    Kiki Walpanheim: nods
    Kiki Walpanheim: and i am spending time in SL full time today
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Maxine Walden: A couple of people I have not met before. Is everyone familiar with these meetings?
    Xeno Octavia: slightly went yester
    Farv Hallison: no me
    Ludo Merit: This is in text?
    Ludo Merit: Not me
    Maxine Walden: That we talk about the nature of reality and that we log the sessions?
    Wol Euler: yes, text
    Kiki Walpanheim: topic today is reality?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the only voice session happens on friday nights
    Wol Euler: we record these sessions and publish them on our website, http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    Wol Euler: may we have your permission to include your comments and your SL name in the published log?
    Ludo Merit: For this meeting yes
    Farv Hallison: yes
    Xeno Octavia: yes
    Wol Euler: ty
    Maxine Walden: yes, this is in text and we post the logs of the chats. We try to explore our experience of reality...and we do so by trying to pause in our conversations to see what we feel, see, think...who we are
    Farv Hallison: but can you edit out the stupid stuff?
    Wol Euler: that notecard tells you the basics of the group
    Maxine Walden: haha, we all say stupid stuff, Farv
    Xeno Octavia: TY Wol
    Maxine Walden: yes, thanks Wol for giving the notecards
    Kiki Walpanheim: yes
    Maxine Walden: Actually every 15 min at these meetings we have a 90 sec pause, and at those times we try to drop whatever is going on and 'see' who we are beneath our thoughts, conversations, etc
    Maxine Walden: at 15 min after the hour a bell will ring and we will have our first pause
    Maxine Walden: Maybe Wol and Yaku have more to add about these practices...
    Wol Euler: sure
    Wol Euler: the core practice, as it were, is a nine second meditation :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bertram
    Maxine Walden: hi, bertram
    Wol Euler: the idea of this is to transform meditation from a special event that requires a huge investment of time and careful preparation
    Wol Euler: into a tool that you can perform anywhere, at any time
    Bertram Jacobus: hello every body ! :-)
    Wol Euler: hello bert
    Wol Euler: we talk about this as "starting at the end"
    Bertram Jacobus: ty
    Wol Euler: if we had already achieved perfect enlighten,ment#
    Wol Euler: (whatever that might mean :)
    Bertram Jacobus: that means end of suffering, for example
    Wol Euler: then we would be able to clear our minds and free ourselves from illusion and the attachments of the moment, in a moment of taking thought
    Wol Euler: the nine second meditation tries to do this.
    Wol Euler: of course, perfect enlightenment is a pretty lofty goal :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i find, lower goals are less attractive
    Wol Euler smiles
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i often have problems even with the term enlightenment :)
    Bertram Jacobus: why ?
    Xeno Octavia: isnt all enlightenment perfect
    Bertram Jacobus: okay : it´s not philosophy - may be therefore ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah dropping for me means to get rid of ,,retarding thoughts" and to come to an calm and mindful state of mind
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello bobby
    Kiki Walpanheim: i wonder how others do this meditation, and what they come up with....
    Xeno Octavia: my teacher says not just drop but to throw everything away or it clings if just let go
    Bertram Jacobus: i think yes xeno - but it is said that it were possible to experience it first mostly only very shortly and then more and more and in the end - constantly
    Bobby Sidwell: hi
    Wol Euler: hello bobby, have a seat
    Bertram Jacobus: hi bobby
    Maxine Walden: we each approach this from our own unique point of view, so we may have different definitions, different goals even
    Xeno Octavia: but not different enlightenments
    Kiki Walpanheim: generally when i do it, the mind is occupied with problems, ideas instead....which doesnt seem to be right...
    Anon: thank you...i'm not really understanding what's going on :)
    Ludo Merit: Me neither
    Wol Euler: I'll give you an introduction to the group in IM so we don't disturb the others
    Kiki Walpanheim: and 9 seconds is just too short in that case....
    Xeno Octavia: thats a good start : ))
    Maxine Walden: yes, welcome. thanks again, Wol
    Xeno Octavia: ah 90 not 9
    Wol Euler: *here* it's 90 yes
    Wol Euler: the turbo version :)
    Maxine Walden: Maybe we could just share if we are comfortable what our experience was during this 90 sec. Yes, 90 sec here during this meeting
    Kiki Walpanheim: nods at maxine
    Kiki Walpanheim: my mind was blind ...... ;(
    Kiki Walpanheim: blank
    Maxine Walden: important to observe...
    Maxine Walden: and just let it be so, not have to alter that for appearances
    Maxine Walden: we often carry such judgment as to 'how it should be' etc, and these obstructions can skew what our underlying experience might be
    Wol Euler: wb bert
    Bertram Jacobus: sry ty hi again
    Maxine Walden: I found myself a bit 'full' of the experience of the group, and felt a kind of 'how can I be helpful' thought during much of the 90 sec
    Kiki Walpanheim: nods
    Maxine Walden: and there was a little intrusion for me from RL as well
    Maxine Walden: any other sharings from the 90 sec pause?
    Xeno Octavia: lol -- imissed them
    Bertram Jacobus: me too, sadly
    Kiki Walpanheim: that you have to be someone with large amount of leisure time to be a good philosopher.....
    Farv Hallison: gotta go to a BBQ, bye
    Bertram Jacobus: bye farv - enjoy
    Maxine Walden: bye Farv thanks for coming
    Xeno Octavia: take us too Farv
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Xeno Octavia: oh he gone
    Maxine Walden: it is unusual, but part of our effort here is to tune into our experience, which may differ from what we are thinking
    Xeno Octavia: how so
    Wol Euler: well, expectation colours what we see.
    Wol Euler: we put labels onto things, and then don'T look at them again,don't think about them any more
    Wol Euler: but perhaps our label was wrong, applied to hastily?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Maxine Walden: applied out of habit perhaps, narrowing possibilites
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Kiki Walpanheim: sometime a change in environment coudl help with that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bleu :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hy bleu ! :-)
    Kiki Walpanheim: or you just get stuck in something, no matter how much you try in unkonw/unthink about things
    Maxine Walden: hi, bleu
    Kiki Walpanheim: hi bleu
    Maxine Walden: yes, Kiki
    Maxine Walden: Bleu has her sparkler from 4th July celebrations
    Kiki Walpanheim: my schedule is not that fixed....if someone asks me about my hobby...i just do one thing at a time for a while....
    Xeno Octavia: i look at labels as not permanant but to give temp status
    Wol Euler: sure, we aren't saying that they are always totally wrong
    Wol Euler: just that they can interfere.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even secondlife was kind of a new environment for me initially, lately it becomes more and more habitual since i rarely find new places so i feel to start freshness sometimes
    Kiki Walpanheim: and the way i overdo just anything generally is horrible too...
    Bertram Jacobus: there is even a meditation method with using labels
    Wol Euler: it's a good idea to peel them back and see what's underneath, once in a while
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fear to loose my freshness*
    Bertram Jacobus: but may be, that is only a pattern yaku (!?) ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi gaya
    Bertram Jacobus: and we can´t loose what lasts forever ... only temporary stuff
    Kiki Walpanheim: why?
    Maxine Walden: we are talking about dropping labels in trying to see what might be underneath, Gaya, among other things
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :) Thanks Maxine, very kind of you.
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Kiki Walpanheim: behind the veil of ignorance...
    Kiki Walpanheim: of labels...
    Maxine Walden: so many assumptions leave us unaware of so many other perspectives
    Xeno Octavia: : yes assumptions mess up inner and outer communics
    Maxine Walden: :) yes
    Kiki Walpanheim: philosophy estranges us from the familiar...
    Kiki Walpanheim: once the familiar becomes strange, it's never quite the same again...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Xeno Octavia: lol my FL famils totally stranged
    Kiki Walpanheim: one example of disasters is that, when you try to examine what is justice, you come up with the idea that there is nothing like that, that is completely relative to conventions of cultures
    Kiki Walpanheim: and each, doctrine, when you examine it too closely, then anything has problems
    Xeno Octavia: justice is strong cause for war and other injustices
    Kiki Walpanheim: if everybody thinks in such a way, then there is no concept of ethics any more probably
    Maxine Walden: Are we speaking about so-called familiar things like justice which when we look at it we see how biased by culture etc it may be?
    Kiki Walpanheim: kind of, yes
    Xeno Octavia: we have local peace and justice center that doesnt see if want peace gotta drop 'and justice' til maybe have peace
    Kiki Walpanheim: skeptism is not the settlement to problems, only results in restlessness of reasons
    Maxine Walden: yes, it may be that our staying close to our own experience, rather than what a society or culture says/thinks/assumes...staying close to our experience here helps. Otherwise we can wander into intellectual discourse/arguments...which diverts from realy direct experience
    Gaya Ethaniel: What helps you with staying close to own experiences Maxine?
    Maxine Walden: In the pause coming up in a couple of mintues, wonder if we can drop our assumptions, as it were, and see what we are experiencing...may be blank as Kiki said before, but may be different, and may shift in the 90 sec
    Maxine Walden: One thing that helps, Gaya, is tuning into my breath or heartbeat...as basic elements of being in the moment
    Yakuzza Lethecus: darren :)
    Maxine Walden: as a starting place
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Darren :)
    Darren Islar: hi everyone
    Kiki Walpanheim: hi darren
    Bertram Jacobus: hi darren and re kiki
    Wol Euler: hello darren, wb kiki
    Bleu Oleander: hi darren
    Maxine Walden: hi, darren, we were in the 90 sec pause
    Darren Islar: I understood :)
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Bertram Jacobus loves understanding ...
    Kiki Walpanheim: ty....i just clicked some link and then got TP'd there without me confirming it..
    Kiki Walpanheim: next time be aware of the secondlife://app/teleport style of links...
    Gaya Ethaniel is lagging as usual and not seeing much of the chat :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hijacklink
    Maxine Walden: :), Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Maxine Walden: sorry, Gaya, can be frustrating
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. why is that gaya !?
    Kiki Walpanheim: is everybody meditating......
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bleu Oleander: or IMing?
    Maxine Walden: :), Kiki, wondering the same thing
    Bertram Jacobus: im here, yes ;-9
    Maxine Walden: :))
    Wol Euler: perhaps we are "I AM"ing
    Darren Islar: :))
    Maxine Walden: haha, Wol, very good!
    Bleu Oleander: I um ing
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Maxine Walden: :) bleu
    Bertram Jacobus: (take something to drink - brb)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: We often have mor focused conversations, they are called theme sessions where a specific topic is more deeply discussed:
    Kiki Walpanheim: See you folks....enjoyed Play as being
    Wol Euler: bye kiki, take care
    Darren Islar: bye Kiki
    Maxine Walden: thanks, for coming, Kiki, bye
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example firdays there is a discussion on time at 6:00 am
    Bleu Oleander: bye Kiki
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye kiki
    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Theme_Sessions
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Kiki :)
    Xeno Octavia: 'time' topic u mean
    Maxine Walden: thanks for the reminder, Yaku
    Wol Euler: yes, but also punctual
    Wol Euler grins.
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: (backk)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am only mentioning that because of many new faces
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Yaku :)
    Bleu Oleander: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2010/07/2010.07.02_06%3a00_-_Time_Sessions%3a_an_Introduction
    Maxine Walden: I need to go. Nice to see everyone. See you again soon, I hope.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care maxine
    Maxine Walden: bye for now
    Bertram Jacobus: bye maxine - enjoy
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Wol Euler: bye maxine, enjoy your sunday
    Bleu Oleander: bye Maxine
    Wol Euler: wb gaya
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb and bye gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks and bye everyone :)
    Wol Euler: bye gaya :)
    Wol Euler: bye yaku
    Bleu Oleander: bye Gaya
    Wol Euler: hello qt
    Wol Euler: the changing of the guard :)
    Darren Islar: hi QT
    Bleu Oleander: hi Qt
    Xeno Octavia: booliboop QT
    Qt Core: !
    Xeno Octavia: yes did leave that off
    Qt Core: did you have a nice topic ?
    Bleu Oleander: bye everyone .... til next time :)
    Wol Euler: bye bleu, take care
    Qt Core: bye Bleu
    Darren Islar: bye Bleu
    Wol Euler: happy fourthing
    Bertram Jacobus: hy qt bye bleu
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: topic ... was too high for me ... sadly - had to do with what is behind dropping or such (?) ;-)
    Ludo Merit: I'd better get back to work
    Wol Euler: we had a half-dozen newcomers, qt, so we spent some time explaining the basics
    Darren Islar: bye Ludo
    Bertram Jacobus: bye ludo then - have a good time !
    Wol Euler: bye ludo, take care
    Qt Core: bye Ludo
    Qt Core: somethimes you can have new ideas from reexamining the basics
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bertram Jacobus: onigokko
    Wol Euler: dropping the idea that you know what the basics are
    Bertram Jacobus: because of the basics ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: stop
    Bertram Jacobus: ty
    Xeno Octavia: lol w3hat are basics
    Bertram Jacobus: don´t know - simply wear it xeno - if you like ... :-)
    Xeno Octavia: so bert whats an onigokko --can it rez here
    Qt Core: questioning everything up to questioning questioning
    Bertram Jacobus: no - you can wear it xeno
    Wol Euler: just wear it
    Bertram Jacobus: and then everyone can say the magic word ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: onigokko
    Qt Core: even non wearer ?
    Bertram Jacobus: don´t know - may be - and also the stop word ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: stop
    Xeno Octavia: lol --was that fun?? but at least play !!
    Darren Islar: can try
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ! play as being ! :-)
    Darren Islar: onigokko
    Darren Islar: yes, it works
    Bertram Jacobus: great ty darren. now we know :-)
    Darren Islar: heheh
    Bertram Jacobus: stop
    Darren Islar: keep on dancing guy and girl :)
    Xeno Octavia: is the music that makes it
    Darren Islar: ahhhhhh
    Qt Core: imagining going where there are a lot of people a sneakily start it <evil grin="">
    Bertram Jacobus: no - it´s the onigokko ;-)
    Darren Islar: making a script that makes anybody who is there wearing it
    Darren Islar: I'm afraid you need more then a script :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, i´ll still go a bit sl dancing ... leave here now ... ty all for the meeting !
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: have fun, bert
    Qt Core: have fun!
    Bertram Jacobus: and may all beings be happy plz !
    Xeno Octavia: yes my leavering time too
    Xeno Octavia: btw is there a group or we justs meets as please
    Wol Euler: bye xeno, nice to meet oyu
    Wol Euler: *you
    Darren Islar: bye Xeno
    Wol Euler: oh, didnT I tgive you a notecard?
    Wol Euler: we meet 4x a day
    Wol Euler: 1am 7am 1pm 7pm
    Xeno Octavia: yes but asked if there group kno bout meets
    Wol Euler: oh, I see.
    Wol Euler: no, people turn up as they please
    Wol Euler: some attend more than ohters
    Xeno Octavia: kool
    Xeno Octavia: see ya all laters then : ))
    Wol Euler: bye, take care
    Darren Islar: :))
    Qt Core: bye Xeno
    Darren Islar: bye
    Darren Islar: sometimes it is hard to leave here :))
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: I expected one of you to jump seats, but see that we are already in perfect symmetry
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: sometimes it just works
    Darren Islar: if that also means we are in perfect harmony, I guess we can leave now :))
    Wol Euler: eeep
    Wol Euler: best break it immediately, then.
    Darren Islar: heheheh
    Qt Core: sometimes i find difficoult even not coming here (even knowing i will spend to much time here)
    Darren Islar: you mean making it late?
    Qt Core: that too, but even if not late i could just use the one or more sleep hour ;-)
    Wol Euler: /m enods
    Wol Euler: SL is a machine for disposimng of time
    Darren Islar: yes
    Darren Islar: I guess especially as europeans
    Qt Core: and a couple of websites too (sl has the plus of overheating my pc a little... wonderful in this season)
    Darren Islar: :))
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: though we are all europeans and we can all go to sleep now
    Darren Islar: why don't we?
    Qt Core: i sadly had to got used to go to bed around 1am lately
    Darren Islar: yeah
    Wol Euler: heh
    Wol Euler: we fear that we might miss something exciting
    Qt Core: more than our dreams ? what could it be ? ;)
    Darren Islar: or we are a bit scared of leaving the connection behind
    Darren Islar: with people I mean
    Wol Euler: there is that, yes
    Darren Islar: like we have still something important to say
    Qt Core: or to hear
    Wol Euler: perhaps just "I'm here, and I see that you are too"
    Wol Euler: a lot of what happens in RL conversatoins is really just that
    Wol Euler: the nodding and eye contact and saying "yes"
    Qt Core: it would be interesting if in rl people getting lost in their thought will go in afk mode
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Darren Islar: :)
    Wol Euler: head falling forward and bonking onthe desk
    Darren Islar: coffee all around
    Qt Core: or more interesting even if dangerous ou their wheel
    Darren Islar: I think a lot of people are afk during the day
    Qt Core: steering wheel
    Darren Islar: oops
    Wol Euler: afm perhaps, away from mindfulness
    Qt Core: thinking about it a busy mode would be way more useful
    Darren Islar: I'm afraid it is going to be used a lot
    Darren Islar: avoiding contact with people around us
    Qt Core: better than faking intererst
    Darren Islar: yes, but you could also miss good things that just happen
    Darren Islar: more control, less coincidence
    Qt Core: yes, btw i was thinking about using it for keeping concentrated while working on something hard or late
    Wol Euler nods
    Darren Islar: and the we go to sl to make that happen :)
    Darren Islar: I understand, but people will use it also walking on the street
    Darren Islar: I think.....
    Darren Islar: don't disturb me, I'm not interested
    Darren Islar: parents that use it to get the children do something different
    Darren Islar: interesting actually if you start to think about it
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: I'm going to move on, my dears. My bed is calling.
    Wol Euler: take care, be happy and not-aft
    Qt Core: :-) sleep well WOl
    Wol Euler: *afk
    Darren Islar: put on your busy mode and sleep well :))
    Qt Core: i have to start the day a little earlier tomorrow, i'll try to start the night a little earlier too.
    Qt Core: Bye Darren
    Darren Islar: bye QT


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