2010.07.24 19:00 - Into and Out of Virtue

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza, who was joined by Pila, Hokon, Paradise, Lucinda, and some visitors. Then Lucinda and Hokon were joined by Steve and a visitor. :)

    We began the evening talking about Sidhartha's time, which flowed into discussion of the cycles of time, natural virtue, & medicine. There was then a shift along with new visitors, which allowed for conversation at the end I highly suggest taking time for.

    Such as Lucinda's "Every pause is an opportunity to look again..."

    Drink up! :)

    Pila Mulligan: hi ELiza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila :) I'm filling in for Pema tonight... Nice to see you!
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you also
    Eliza Madrigal: I hope you didn't come with a scientific question.. hehe
    Pila Mulligan: no ... but I bet we can think of some :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: I was actually reading over a little dialog we had on karma, just a few days ago
    Pila Mulligan: what do you suppose are some of the significant actual differences between our time and the time of Buddha?
    Pila Mulligan: ah, let's consider karma then
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, no, was just mentioning it. I love your question
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm...
    Pila Mulligan: the technology of course is different
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Pila Mulligan: some things like some food would probably be mostly recognizable
    Eliza Madrigal: the pace of things... quick accessibility
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: the samll world too
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if there was a sense of a large world to explore in the same way...
    Pila Mulligan: I watched the video 'Sidhartha' a few days ago ... that may have helped prompt the question
    Pila Mulligan: my guess is the the analog of the world then would be space now
    Pila Mulligan: outer space
    Pila Mulligan: in term os exploration
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh... Is Sidhartha the film that has the gorgeous sand mandala at the end?
    Pila Mulligan: not this one -- this was Herman Hesses story
    Pila Mulligan: from his book
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes I'm thinking of Kundun
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: about the dalai lama
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: for the wealthy, architecture and clothes and food were quite elaborate then
    Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi, Hokon :)
    Pila Mulligan: they would probably find our ordinary architecture and clothes and food somewhat uninspired
    Eliza Madrigal: Let me give you a short note of our discussion so far. Pila has asked an interesting question
    Hokon Cazalet: ok
    Pila Mulligan: apart from the technology parts, of course
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I agree with you about uninspired... or at least unattentive in most cases
    Pila Mulligan: shallow maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: that we make so much, take up space, without sufficient detail perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: time
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Pila Mulligan: now Virtue Ethics, one of Hokon's interests, was established then too
    Eliza Madrigal: I think people lived with things longer then
    Pila Mulligan: yes, their world had less change
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, a wonderful topic
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Hokon Cazalet: Yaaaaayyyyyyyy!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Hokon Cazalet: i finsihed the notecard, ty
    Pila Mulligan: so the next thought may be how did the changes from then to now affect the value of the philosohy?
    Eliza Madrigal: a nice clarifier also... adding significance to the discussion for we here at this moment...
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Eliza Madrigal: what 'always matters?'
    Eliza Madrigal: Care to elaborate a little for me on specific understandings of 'virtue ethics' in this context?
    Pila Mulligan: I do, Hokon also, please
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Pila Mulligan: mine: Marxist history ilustrates in China and Russia how an emphasis on virtues or moral character can lead to social equalization for a while, but then the antithesis seems to arise and the social equalization begins to revert backwards to inequalities
    Pila Mulligan: each major philosophy seems to have similar cycles
    Pila Mulligan: into and out of virtue
    Hokon Cazalet: yeah social philosophies tend to have that
    Hokon Cazalet: i'd say same of religion actually as well
    Eliza Madrigal: yes.... listening, agree
    Pila Mulligan: yes, so Buddhism no doubt had similar cycles
    Pila Mulligan: and Chrisitanity
    Pila Mulligan: and etc etc
    Eliza Madrigal nods :)
    Pila Mulligan: perhaps the light of enlightenment is what does not change
    Hokon Cazalet: one thing i notice thats different now compared to then, the world we live in is more utilitarian, i.e. most of what we live among and inside of is technological; it seems the focus of a good person has shifted to duty to the greater whole (and its backlash, emotively charged ethics, irrationalism)
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting, both thoughts
    Pila Mulligan: yes, are we the servants of techology or its masters?
    Hokon Cazalet: also the shift from inner qualities and traits to actions and consequences

    Eliza Madrigal: do you think there was a larger sense of personal accountability, 'back then' ?
    Hokon Cazalet: id say so eliza, as you lived among a smaller community, if you screw up, your only option is exile
    Eliza Madrigal: smaller villages, longer time knowing the same people...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes.
    Pila Mulligan: there may be a constant tension between manipulative actions and virtuous actions
    Hokon Cazalet: id agree pila
    Pila Mulligan: I've sure seen in it my lifetime
    Eliza Madrigal: so a sense of 'who decides'... seems important
    Pila Mulligan: yes :)
    Pila Mulligan: and who's on top :)
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Pila Mulligan: that I suppose is much the same as a human trait over the millenia
    Hokon Cazalet: hi paradise

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise! What an entrance! :) One second I'll make a note
    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: wow, effusive colors
    Paradise Tennant: hiya eliza .. pila . hokon :)
    Paradise Tennant: thanks eliza and reads
    Eliza Madrigal: in a sense virtue ethics is Being, rather than doing...
    Eliza Madrigal: though doing flows?

    Why I enjoy the logs: Posting this session and reading it over, I see myself setting up a false choice. Why must it be being 'rather than' doing? Anyway, a personal note. Back to the discussion. :)

    Pila Mulligan: and I thnik in places where culutres have existed and developed for a thousand years or more there is a better appreciaiotn or grounding in the virtues that endured from the past
    Hokon Cazalet: well the focus is on being, and good action flows from our virtuous qualities
    Hokon Cazalet: yup

    Pila Mulligan: the culture of the modern Americas is not that well gounded
    Hokon Cazalet: id agree
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... young. perhaps we are learning
    Pila Mulligan: and culutre may be a constant in this context
    Pila Mulligan: or a *more* constant
    Pila Mulligan: we are kind of like an adolescent making its presence felt in the community
    Eliza Madrigal: the shift to greater technology does allow the tentacles to reach farther... farther forward and also farther back...
    Pila Mulligan: and farther outward too
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, perhaps especially once we aren't trying to build for ourselves a puffed up image...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: pretend to measure to the older cultures... or outdo...
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure. Havent thought along those lines before actually :)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)

    Pila Mulligan: I couldn't miss it on movig to Hawaii -- the old culture here is really deep, although it has been abused a lot too in modern times
    Pila Mulligan: the Polyneisan culture here is probbaly at least 1500 years oild
    Pila Mulligan: plus the residual parts from the culutres of the early arrivals
    Pila Mulligan: I'd guess that in terms of essential human nature, modern people are not all that much differen from our ancestors of 2500 years ago
    Eliza Madrigal: Are you able to see the layers of it Pila, in the culture? like rings on a tree... time...?
    Paradise Tennant: hmm think though .. on the essential human elements .. we are pretty much as was at the time of the buddha . appearances have dramatically changed in some ways but the fundamentals are .. still the same
    Pila Mulligan: yes :)
    Paradise Tennant: yes .. same basic human challenges and constraints to perception
    Pila Mulligan: yes, the externalities have dramatically chnaged
    Pila Mulligan: and that maybe misleading in the sense of fundamental changes
    Hokon Cazalet: but the essential core remins imo
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Eliza Madrigal: good to appreciate youthful/new creativity while appreciating the depth ... meaning, not that we never cut the tree and make a table, but we appreciate it enough not to do it mindlessly...
    Eliza Madrigal: to slow down
    Pila Mulligan: well, there is a nice anlaogy of growth of human beings being like a tree
    Eliza Madrigal: not 'the tree' as in the culture... but many things we live in and try to change... develop, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: re roots, Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: if we could fly back and forth over time between two places separated by 2500 years, I bet we would easily see some interesting revelations
    Pila Mulligan: those rings tend to be progressive and rich or oppressive and weak
    Pila Mulligan: and they are repetitious
    Pila Mulligan: but the net seems to be a gradual advance
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Eliza Madrigal: "the arc is long but tends toward justice"  ?
    Pila Mulligan: it seems so
    Pila Mulligan: love thy neighbor stuff
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: the sap...
    Pila Mulligan: an excellent virtue :)
    Hokon Cazalet: yup =)
    Eliza Madrigal: So we're saying that virtue is natural? in buddha's time and ours...
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I'd say so
    Hokon Cazalet: natural to man, id say so
    Pila Mulligan: Darwinian even
    Pila Mulligan: in terms of selecting virtue being a survival act
    Eliza Madrigal: hm
    Eliza Madrigal: so in dealing with others it is always there... that when we 'know better we do better'
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: lifting up is better than putting down
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Eliza Madrigal: wonderful to ponder, harder to remember in the midst of a disagreement sometimes, but I guess that's the same point...
    Pila Mulligan: human nature :)

    Paradise Tennant: smiles sometimes pondering it makes it easier to deal with :)
    Pila Mulligan: not to mention karma :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: cycles... rings...
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe yup paradise
    Eliza Madrigal: pondering creates more conducive conditions to remember in the second perhaps :)
    Eliza Madrigal: preparing the ground... planting the seeds...
    Eliza Madrigal: trusting the natural process
    Paradise Tennant: yes I have been aspiring to greater patience now whein I have a less than patient thought I always find myself pondering on how to let go .. ot if :) pondering is good :)

    Pila Mulligan: Jung in his autobigoraphy referred to the human need to 'insulate ourselves from shock'
    Eliza Madrigal: say more?
    Pila Mulligan chooses not to :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: patient Pila
    Pila Mulligan but cannot resist :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))))
    Pila Mulligan: we encounter shocks all the time
    Pila Mulligan: and the more they bother us the more ancy we get
    Pila Mulligan: ancy sp?
    Eliza Madrigal: antsy I think...
    Pila Mulligan: so bulidng up insulation helps us keep a perspective
    Pila Mulligan: thanks, yes antsy
    Pila Mulligan: how do we 'insulate ourselves from shock' then?
    Eliza Madrigal: is that like a fortress though... building insulations?
    Eliza Madrigal: seems heavy to carry
    Pila Mulligan: well, it could be -- some people no doubt do it by rigidity
    Pila Mulligan: but they fall down easily
    Pila Mulligan: Stim seems to have that sense of imperviousness that Jung probably meant
    Pila Mulligan: and he is not fortress like
    Paradise Tennant: nods and listens
    Eliza Madrigal: certainly
    Eliza Madrigal: there can be the illusion 'preparing for any and every event' I guess... which is different from natural flow...
    Eliza Madrigal: natural softness maybe, which absorbs better :)
    Hokon Cazalet: yup =)
    Pila Mulligan: "Soft and weak overcome hard and strong" :ao Tse
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: "When I'm weak then I am strong" somewhere in the Christian bible... haha

    Pila Mulligan: more Lao Tse: He who is filled with Virtue is like a newborn child. Wasps and serpents will not sting him; Wild beasts will not pounce upon him; He will not be attacked by birds of prey.
    Pila Mulligan: so this is an example of the Darwinian aspect of virtue
    Pila Mulligan: as a survival enhancement
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods...
    Eliza Madrigal: so many wonderful analogies and pictures in all that we've conjured...
    Pila Mulligan: now in terms that completely escape modern science, the yogic schools also taught how to insulate from shock through prana and shakti -- breathing and higher personal energy levels
    Eliza Madrigal: the graceful tree nurtured by the water side, naturally bearing fruit
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I wonder what would be required for greater harmony between traditional medicine and holistic/energy approaches
    Eliza Madrigal: When I was very ill, my rheumatologist would sort of whisper on the side things to try...
    Pila Mulligan: well, Platos Cave plays a big part in it
    Pila Mulligan: some people dont want to see beyond their shadows
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Eliza Madrigal: yes and there is personal risk involved too
    Eliza Madrigal: do shadows insulate? :)
    Pila Mulligan: I was quite ill once with a persistent allergy reaction that even steroids did ont dent, and a Hawaiian healer fixed it with herbs -- I took the herbs to the dermatologist and he held up his hand and said, "I don't even want to know" -- he was serious
    Pila Mulligan: shadows are forts:
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I believe that. I was on my third doctor by the time of the one I mention :)
    Pila Mulligan: in terms of the precious chat
    Pila Mulligan: yep, better to find dotors working in light
    Eliza Madrigal: precious chat?
    Pila Mulligan: previouc*
    Pila Mulligan: s*
    Pila Mulligan: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sorry :)
    Hokon Cazalet: :Þ
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Hokon Cazalet: ☻
    Pila Mulligan: SLTA == Second Life Typoo Association
    Hokon Cazalet: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: we're all members, just by signing up
    Pila Mulligan: aka SALT
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Shall we do a five minute meditation, and then I must go...
    Eliza Madrigal: It will make up for the bell we just talked through... hahaha
    Hokon Cazalet: lol
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Pila Mulligan: sure
    Eliza Madrigal: let me get the singing bowl...
    Eliza Madrigal: I always appreciate Paradise's idea of doing this... thanks again paradise
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Pila Mulligan: :) yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay... I'll ring the bell once to begin, and once to end... first posting a little reflection, taoist tonight seems good...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (Oh, seeing lucinda sign on... let's see if she arrives here first...)
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks
    Paradise Tennant: hmm think I am going to have to excuse myself .. I got a lot of sun today and I am having trouble keeping my eyes open ..
    Pila Mulligan: she seems to be moving in this direction
    Eliza Madrigal: I think not... okay....
    Paradise Tennant: thank you pila . eliza .. hokon
    Paradise Tennant: be well
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, okay. Night Paradise :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sweet dreams
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite
    Pila Mulligan: bye Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you
    Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tabitha :)
    Hokon Cazalet: bye paradise
    Eliza Madrigal: Welcome
    Pila Mulligan: hi Tabitha
    Eliza Madrigal: Let me give you a note about the group...
    Pila Mulligan: hi Lucinda
    Eliza Madrigal: allowing for change to the flow... let the session decide :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :))
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Pila
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Eliza
    Pila Mulligan: hi Jayda
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi jayda....
    Eliza Madrigal: I've just given you both a little note about our group. :) Please feel welcome to come join us
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Tabitha Bakerly: are you having a discussion?
    Eliza Madrigal: we've been talking about natural ethics
    Eliza Madrigal: but are at a natural transition :)
    Eliza Madrigal: One thing to let you know...
    Eliza Madrigal: that we record these sessions and post them on a wiki so that we can converse even when we're not here, in a way :)
    Eliza Madrigal: If you'd like not to be included in that, just let me know and I can edit your name out :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Is there another topic that comes to mind for anyone?
    Pila Mulligan: I think the earlier chat led to the most recent comment that modern medicine and older healing mehtods could benefit by not beng so separated
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I do apologize that I'll have to leave after the next pause. Btw Jayda and tabitha we have a group practice of pausing every fifteen minutes...
    Eliza Madrigal: a kind of micro-meditation :)
    Pila Mulligan: Eliza and I both mentioned illnesses we had where older helaing methods came to play helpfully
    Eliza Madrigal: so the fountain will change a bit... the pause is a natural medicine I guess Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: I see the pause as a balancing, Eliza
    Pila Mulligan: a nice idea for RL meetings too
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice, yes agree very much
    Lucinda Lavender: Balancing the active and receptive ways of being Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: yin and yang? probably
    Eliza Madrigal: mmmm
    Pila Mulligan: also keeping us from stumbling over our words :)

    Lucinda Lavender: and perhaps releasing the hold we have on our picture of the present

    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, a nice thought to sleep on... Thank you everyone
    Pila Mulligan: bye Eliza, nice to see you :)
    Hokon Cazalet: bye eliza =)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Hokon, Pila, Lucinda...
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you Jayda and Tabitha
    Jayda Ferrentino: you too
    Eliza Madrigal: Night _/!\_
    Lucinda Lavender: almost like a bird with feathers...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I saw much art today...
    Lucinda Lavender: cannot remember it in detail because there was so much
    Pila Mulligan: in SL?
    Lucinda Lavender: no in RL
    Pila Mulligan: ahh :)
    Lucinda Lavender: and there was a dress of feathers

    Lucinda Lavender: curious what others find the most constant action they do...in RL
    Lucinda Lavender:like I sweep a lot...
    Lucinda Lavender: this does not produce art I am thinking
    Pila Mulligan: sleep :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Pila Mulligan: sweep and sleep
    Lucinda Lavender: hmmm yes:)
    Jayda Ferrentino: hey lucy
    Jayda Ferrentino: and pila and hokon
    Lucinda Lavender: yes?
    Pila Mulligan: how are you Jayda
    Jayda Ferrentino: lolll sorry its really late and i'm just recognizing your all here in front of me
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Jayda Ferrentino: i'm good thanks, how're you pila?
    Pila Mulligan: ine, thanks
    Pila Mulligan: fine*
    Pila Mulligan: Tabitha was there beside you and just left
    Jayda Ferrentino: she's
    Jayda Ferrentino: been tped away by a friend
    Pila Mulligan: ah
    Hokon Cazalet: okies
    Lucinda Lavender: okies?
    Pila Mulligan: there are informal chat sessions here four times a day
    Pila Mulligan: okies = okay Lucinda :)
    Lucinda Lavender: thanks
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Jayda Ferrentino: cool
    Jayda Ferrentino: ok well i have to go
    Jayda Ferrentino: thanks for the info
    Jayda Ferrentino: and pleasure meeting you all
    Jayda Ferrentino: take care of yourselves
    Lucinda Lavender: take care..
    Pila Mulligan: bye
    Hokon Cazalet: =)

    Pila Mulligan: Lucinda, there are some beautiful RL lei made of feathers
    Pila Mulligan: http://www.tetura.com/main.html <- examples
    Pila Mulligan: as well as cloaks and other items
    Lucinda Lavender: wow...that is quite something!
    Lucinda Lavender: thanks Pila...
    Lucinda Lavender: such delicate things feathers
    Lucinda Lavender: light as a...

    Pila Mulligan: "Kamehameha instructed them to harvest the o'o birds' rare yellow feathers without killing the birds. Specialized bird catchers, po'e hahai manu, spent long months in forest habitats, catching their elusive prey with fiber nets, nooses and even bare hands. Sap from the breadfruit tree was applied to the limbs of trees that desirable birds were known to favor. Once a bird was caught, the bird catcher softened the adhesive with kukui oil and plucked the needed feathers."
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: curious about breadfruit.. is it eaten?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is delsiicous
    Pila Mulligan: it is almost like eggplant in the way it cooks
    Pila Mulligan: but it is atree fruit
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadfruit
    Lucinda Lavender: latex...
    Pila Mulligan: it is a big tree and a big fruit
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: How is your bread project going?
    Pila Mulligan: funny, always leanring, I did not know it was the sorce of latex :)
    Pila Mulligan: yummy
    Pila Mulligan: doing pizza crusts now
    Lucinda Lavender: great
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: whole wheat
    Lucinda Lavender: tastier?
    Pila Mulligan: well, hippier :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Hokon Cazalet: lol
    Pila Mulligan: well, I need to do some RL stuff now ... nice to see you Hokon and Lucinda
    Hokon Cazalet: you too =)
    Lucinda Lavender: yes Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: bye for onw
    Lucinda Lavender: Have a good day...

    Lucinda Lavender: Hokon...what do you know about your name...never heard it before
    Hokon Cazalet: i invented it as a kid, the label for a group of aliens i invented with my legos :Þ
    Lucinda Lavender: cool!
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Lucinda Lavender: I was imagining that it came from a language I do not know ...
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Tabitha...
    Lucinda Lavender: curious about the aliens...did they have special powers?
    Lucinda Lavender: Hello German...
    german Ghoststar: hola
    Lucinda Lavender: Been here before?
    Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
    Lucinda Lavender: WE are a group that records its conversations...
    Lucinda Lavender: there are pauses every 15 minutes
    Lucinda Lavender: of silence
    Lucinda Lavender: I will give you a note card...
    Lucinda Lavender: Hello Nick Savanna...
    NickSavannah Unplugged: Hi Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: we have discussion here punctuated by 90 sec. breaks
    NickSavannah Unplugged: about reality?
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Lucinda Lavender: feel free to join in...
    NickSavannah Unplugged: Thank you
    Lucinda Lavender: and if you know that it is recorded and that is alright with you then alls well...
    Lucinda Lavender: I am anewer participant myself ...

    NickSavannah Unplugged: I don't know what I'm doing but I am curious

    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    NickSavannah Unplugged: that's my reality
    NickSavannah Unplugged: smiles
    Lucinda Lavender: me too actually
    Lucinda Lavender: many kinds of conversations have been logged at the wiki...
    NickSavannah Unplugged: okay
    NickSavannah Unplugged: like what?
    Lucinda Lavender: since this happens 4 times a day there are many people involved
    NickSavannah Unplugged: How many times has this happened today?
    Lucinda Lavender: well it varies...
    NickSavannah Unplugged: Is it day or night?
    Lucinda Lavender: 4 times 7amslt,1pm,7pm,and 1am
    NickSavannah Unplugged: what is the mission?
    Lucinda Lavender: SLT is PacificDaylight Time
    NickSavannah Unplugged: okay
    NickSavannah Unplugged: I'm on EST
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: STeve! Hi!...Nice to see you
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    NickSavannah Unplugged: nice tatoos dude
    stevenaia Michinaga: hope I;m not interrupting
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    Lucinda Lavender: I am chatting with Nick and he has asked what our mission is...
    Lucinda Lavender: not a bit!
    NickSavannah Unplugged: nods head
    stevenaia Michinaga: : mission, interesting...listens
    NickSavannah Unplugged: what is the purpose
    Lucinda Lavender: to examine experience and appearance...
    stevenaia Michinaga: happy to chime in when if you wish, Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: please!
    Lucinda Lavender: as a newish person it is much appreciated...
    NickSavannah Unplugged: I do that all the time consciously or unconsciously
    NickSavannah Unplugged: so does everyone here
    NickSavannah Unplugged: I'm having a hard time understanding what this is
    Lucinda Lavender: playing as Being...is the name.
    NickSavannah Unplugged: Hi Tabitha
    stevenaia Michinaga: I view it as a creative visualization and contemplation group
    NickSavannah Unplugged: you're speaking way over my head here
    stevenaia Michinaga: the approach is to discover and understand things in unconventional ways
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmm
    NickSavannah Unplugged: and how is that achieved
    NickSavannah Unplugged: ?
    Lucinda Lavender: when people use their own life as a laboratory...
    stevenaia Michinaga: initially through directed micro meditations
    NickSavannah Unplugged: We do that everyday
    NickSavannah Unplugged: whether we think about it or not
    stevenaia Michinaga: meditations for 9 seconds... every 15 minutesis how it began
    stevenaia Michinaga: now it;s 90 seconds
    NickSavannah Unplugged: did you mean 90
    NickSavannah Unplugged: okay
    stevenaia Michinaga: these can be topical or directed meditations.. or free quiet moments
    NickSavannah Unplugged: now we can talk
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    NickSavannah Unplugged: what would you like to talk about

    stevenaia Michinaga: when you are presented with a thought, and take a moment to sit and thnk about it, the mind fills the space beautifully
    stevenaia Michinaga: it can be quite sweet sometimes
    NickSavannah Unplugged: when I am presented with a thought
    stevenaia Michinaga: I cannot say I am rigorous about it, but when I take the time, nice things appear
    Lucinda Lavender: There have been some special sessions devoted to observations about time recently...
    stevenaia Michinaga: but the focus here is to play with the concept of being, what is "it" and the way we play with it is to imagine how we see being and how being sees
    Lucinda Lavender: special
    stevenaia Michinaga: *play, not place
    stevenaia Michinaga: it has yet to teach me how to type
    Lucinda Lavender: :)))
    Lucinda Lavender: HI Dr Village Ewan!
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Ewan
    Ewan Bonham: Hello all
    stevenaia Michinaga: there is much to read on our website/wiki
    Lucinda Lavender: sometimes I try to say something and then delete since it is not yet a fully emerged thought...
    Ewan Bonham: I welcome any of your thoughts...emerged or not
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Lucinda Lavender: then the best I can do is breathe and wait
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_log_excerpts/Excerpts_(short)/A_summary_of_Play_as_Being
    Lucinda Lavender: by Tabitha

    Lucinda Lavender: every pause is an opportunity to look again...
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a fresh perspective

    Lucinda Lavender: I like the summary Steve...
    Ewan Bonham: Another breath
    Lucinda Lavender: new air
    Lucinda Lavender: fireworks in my neighborhood...
    stevenaia Michinaga: I use it as a way of emptying, and something new fills the void
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: the mind works beautifully at that, it never runs out of stuff, even when empty
    Lucinda Lavender: thoughts, sensations
    Lucinda Lavender: firing away

    Lucinda Lavender: during that pause...curious what the mind had to say...
    NickSavannah Unplugged: my mind said, I can't wait for the 90 seconds to be up so I can talk
    Lucinda Lavender: mine definitly jumped me up to put the potato salad away...
    NickSavannah Unplugged: now I have nothing to say
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometiems 90 seconds is too short, sometimes to long
    Lucinda Lavender: hmmm

    NickSavannah Unplugged: I've spent 5 minutes with a person or situation 10 years ago and 10 years with a situation or person 5 minutes ago
    NickSavannah Unplugged: time is relative the the time you're having
    Lucinda Lavender: subjective then
    NickSavannah Unplugged: time is relative to the time you're having = subjective
    Lucinda Lavender: appearances that give a certain quality to it
    Lucinda Lavender: fast/slow
    NickSavannah Unplugged: up/down
    Lucinda Lavender: clear/cloudy
    Ewan Bonham: Time can be fleeting or slow...depending on our minds
    Lucinda Lavender: words/nowords
    NickSavannah Unplugged: day and night
    stevenaia Michinaga: yin/yang
    NickSavannah Unplugged: black and white
    NickSavannah Unplugged: hot and cold
    NickSavannah Unplugged: wrong and right
    Lucinda Lavender: diffuse/discerning
    NickSavannah Unplugged: polarity
    NickSavannah Unplugged: without the opposite
    NickSavannah Unplugged: we could never be
    NickSavannah Unplugged: life and death
    NickSavannah Unplugged: sl and rl

    stevenaia Michinaga: it might be woth it to come around and ask the same questions and see how different we each see what we have here, some have been comming for years, other for a few weeks
    NickSavannah Unplugged: dream and waking
    stevenaia Michinaga: we meet 4x a day
    NickSavannah Unplugged: well thanks for allowing me to spend some time with you

    Lucinda Lavender: slowing down here brings me an energy of sorts that is like unwrapping a gift

    Ewan Bonham: What question would you like to pass around?
    Lucinda Lavender: nice :) thank you for the visit, come again
    stevenaia Michinaga: what is it we have/do here
    Ewan Bonham: bye for now, Nick
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye nick
    Lucinda Lavender: bye nick
    stevenaia Michinaga: bed time for me too
    Lucinda Lavender: yes soon for me too
    Ewan Bonham: bye for now Steve
    Lucinda Lavender: thanks Steve for all your help
    stevenaia Michinaga: good seing you :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hope I did
    Lucinda Lavender: yes!
    Lucinda Lavender: how to explain the experience of presence
    Lucinda Lavender: I think this is such a place of learning...
    Lucinda Lavender: Well should go now...intrepid people of the present..
    Ewan Bonham: I must run...good night and peace to you..
    Lucinda Lavender: till later,
    Hokon Cazalet: bye =)
    Lucinda Lavender: Hokon...bye to you as well
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Lucinda Lavender: I like your shoes
    Lucinda Lavender: :)

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