2010.07.29 13:00 - unhooked

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

     

    Dash Earthboy: hi Lia
    Dash Earthboy: glad somebody else showed up
    Lia Rikugun: hello dash
    Lia Rikugun: have we met before?
    Dash Earthboy: i don't think so
    Lia Rikugun: well nice to meet you here :)
    Dash Earthboy: likewise
    Lia Rikugun: have you been here before?
    Dash Earthboy: yes
    Lia Rikugun: ok wonderful
    Dash Earthboy: sometimes at the 1 AM one or this time
    Lia Rikugun: today I am responsible for the session so i need to ask becaus we save the chat log online
    Dash Earthboy: yes
    Lia Rikugun: so what would you like to talk about

     

    Java programming, windows, how dash came to PaB

    Dash Earthboy: oh it's all okay with me
    Dash Earthboy: i'm just taking a break
    Dash Earthboy: from my Java programming
    Dash Earthboy: was starting to fade
    Lia Rikugun: oh what are you programming?
    Dash Earthboy: just a Java app I had in mind but would rather it not be public record right now ;)
    Lia Rikugun: oh sure :)
    Dash Earthboy: so i usually have found more people here
    Lia Rikugun: yes maybe they will come, it is only 4 minutes past 1pm
    Dash Earthboy: and thought i could sit in and do some scanning on my other system at the same time
    Lia Rikugun: or we can discuss something
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Dash Earthboy: yes
    Dash Earthboy: are you using Windows?
    Lia Rikugun: how did you come to PaB?
    Lia Rikugun: now yes, at work no
    Dash Earthboy: i was invited by Bruce Mowbray
    Lia Rikugun: and you?
    Lia Rikugun: oh yes,
    Dash Earthboy: yes he really seems to enjoy these sessions

     

    intro to PaB and the 9 seconds of break

    Lia Rikugun: did you try to do the 9 seconds practice?
    Dash Earthboy: hadn't heard of it?
    Lia Rikugun: oh
    Lia Rikugun: did someone give you a notecard?
    Dash Earthboy: nope
    Lia Rikugun: so the idea is to take 9 seconds of break every 15 minutes
    Lia Rikugun: for a few hours a day
    Lia Rikugun: just to drop
    Lia Rikugun: to wear everything lighter
    Dash Earthboy: um actually I think it's 90 seconds dear
    Lia Rikugun: your personality your job
    Lia Rikugun: 90 seconds in second life
    Lia Rikugun: 9 seconds in real life :)
    Dash Earthboy: oh okay
    Lia Rikugun: the idea is that we talk here about our expriences during the day
    Lia Rikugun: hello adoro
    Dash Earthboy: hi adoro and agatha
    Lia Rikugun: hi agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Nabend Lia :)
    adoro Rhapsody: hi folks
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Adoro
    Lia Rikugun: guten abend! :)
    adoro Rhapsody: guten abend
    adoro Rhapsody: miteinander
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Dash
    adoro Rhapsody: hi dash
    Lia Rikugun: I was just introducing dash to the 9 seconds break
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Lia Rikugun: and that the idea is to talk about our experiences and thoughts we had here
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Dash Earthboy: it had seemed longer than 9 seconds to me but that's cool
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Lia Rikugun: thats right in second life we take 90 seconds as you said
    adoro Rhapsody: time is subjective
    adoro Rhapsody: experience
    Lia Rikugun: but in RL only 9, because 9 seconds is 1% of 15minutes
    Agatha Macbeth will be right back.
    Agatha Macbeth: We talk a lot about 'no time' here :0
    Dash Earthboy: isn't all experience subjective?
    Lia Rikugun: so you pay a 1% time tax as pema would say
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Lia Rikugun: so it is interesting to hear how other people perceive things
    Lia Rikugun: maybe i would be able to perceive :)
    Dash Earthboy: i agree
    Lia Rikugun: wouldnt
    Agatha Macbeth: Is this your first time here Dash?
    Dash Earthboy: no but it's been awhile
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, ok
    Dash Earthboy: hi bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Brucie, and blub
    Lia Rikugun: hi bruce
    adoro Rhapsody: hi bruce and blub
    Dash Earthboy: hi cal
    Lia Rikugun: hello calvino
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Dash, Lia, aggers, and adoro!
    Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Cal :)
    Bruce Mowbray: and Cal!
    adoro Rhapsody: hi cal
    --BELL--

     

    after the break

    Lia Rikugun: how was the break for you?
    Dash Earthboy: good
    Dash Earthboy: got two forms scanned
    Lia Rikugun: HAHA
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Lia Rikugun: I somehow thought of the silent day we had during the retreat
    Bruce Mowbray: I needed the break to help me adjust to being here - after an excellent hour of meditation previously.
    Dash Earthboy: i'm scanning melody (song) sheets and piano sheets and copyright forms
    Bruce Mowbray: Great, Dash --Go for it, dude!
    Agatha Macbeth: Music as Being :)
    Dash Earthboy: i was telling Lia I took a break from Java programming
    Agatha Macbeth: Whoa
    Dash Earthboy: and thought I'd sit in and scan to wake me up
    Dash Earthboy: rather than coffee
    Bruce Mowbray thinks: Java"? Time for coffee.
    Dash Earthboy: suppertime in an hour anyway
    Agatha Macbeth: About the same here
    adoro Rhapsody: bedtime almost here
    Lia Rikugun: here too :)
    Dash Earthboy: yes I feel comfortable here with all the coffee-aholics ;)
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Tea up!
    Dash Earthboy: (^_^)
    Agatha Macbeth: I got this from Eliza :)
    Agatha Macbeth: (Very nice it is too)
    Lia Rikugun: hello darren
    Agatha Macbeth: PaB tea breaks happen at unusual times....
    adoro Rhapsody: hi dar
    Darren Islar: hi everyoe :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yo Daz
    Dash Earthboy: hi darren
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Darren.
    Agatha Macbeth: Speaking of tea, here's Yaku :)
    Dash Earthboy: i don't think i'll hesitate to arrive late again
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, he's gone :(
    Lia Rikugun: and back
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, he's back :)
    Lia Rikugun: hi yaku
    Dash Earthboy: hi yaku
    Agatha Macbeth waves to yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    adoro Rhapsody: hi yaku
    Darren Islar: hi Yaku :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Top 'o the day to you, Yaku.
    Yakuzza Lethecus is scratching his head
    Agatha Macbeth: No hair- it helps
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

     

    What is the topic for today? I thought of an email Pema had sent  few days earlier with a quote from Nisargadatta ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisargadatta_Maharaj ) and wanted get ideas about what people think

    Agatha Macbeth: Did we have a topic Lia, or did I miss it?
    Lia Rikugun: hm not yet
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Lia Rikugun: but maybe i can give ine :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yay
    Lia Rikugun: unless you want to discuss something
    Agatha Macbeth: I'm easy
    Bruce Mowbray: go one, Lia, please.
    Lia Rikugun:

    "It is disinterestedness that liberates. Don't hold on, that is all. The world is made of rings. The hooks are all yours. Make straight your hooks and nothing can hold you. Give up your addictions and the freedom of the universe is yours. Be effortless."

    - Nisargadatta

    Agatha Macbeth: Wow
    Lia Rikugun: this is a quote from Nisargadatta which pema sent around a few days ago
    adoro Rhapsody: sounds good
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep, that sounds like pem alright
    Bruce Mowbray: "be thouh unhooked."
    Lia Rikugun: we had a discussion about this because i didnt really understand
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Lia Rikugun: (we met last weekend, with yaku and bertram!)

     

    disinterestedness...?

    Darren Islar: disinterestednes?
    Agatha Macbeth: I find it hard to follow him too sometimes ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: yes exactly
    Lia Rikugun: this was my question
    Dash Earthboy: that quote is basically about attachment, right?
    Bruce Mowbray: not stuck anywhere - or by anything.
    Lia Rikugun: why disinterestedness this doesnt sound correct
    adoro Rhapsody: war is not the answer
    Calvino Rabeni: I talked to someone recently who was hooked on being disinterested in passion - and let go that hook
    Darren Islar: I should use another word
    Dash Earthboy: i think pem likes to make up words
    Agatha Macbeth: Bless him
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Darren Islar: disinterested sounds like attachement the other way around
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Darren Islar: it sounds like indifference
    Lia Rikugun: yes maybe
    Calvino Rabeni: ah, my point is something like that, Darren
    Agatha Macbeth nods @ Darren
    adoro Rhapsody: not interested in anything
    Lia Rikugun: but not indifference where you dont do anything anymore
    Dash Earthboy: i think it sounds a little more like disaffection
    Bruce Mowbray: not to get stuck in what the words sound like.
    Lia Rikugun: but more that you dont force things maybe
    Lia Rikugun: not to have oit a specific way
    adoro Rhapsody: thst u keep distance
    Lia Rikugun: but be open for any other way
    adoro Rhapsody: that
    --BELL--

     

    disinterestedness and hooks...

    Calvino Rabeni: when the hook was let go, the passion could flow as it needed to for as long as it needed to do so
    Bruce Mowbray: a very gentle distance.
    Darren Islar: I should say eauqnimity
    Darren Islar: equanimity
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe 'apart from' sounds better than 'disinterested'
    Lia Rikugun: maybe biut what do you think it means exactly?
    Dash Earthboy: all form is suffering...let go of attachments and let go of suffering
    Calvino Rabeni: to let go of holding is to move and flow - to let go of pushing is to rest
    Agatha Macbeth: It's about letting go I guess
    Bruce Mowbray: let go of what's "hooking" you. or has you "hooked."
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Calvino Rabeni: to let go of letting go is to experience being
    Bruce Mowbray: or what you have "hooked" yourself to.
    adoro Rhapsody: and darren ?
    adoro Rhapsody: is he still awake
    Agatha Macbeth: :p
    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps in its guise of becoming, etc.
    Lia Rikugun: to let go of letting go..
    Darren Islar: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: It's because he's sitting next to Yaku [grin]
    adoro Rhapsody: disinterested Z?
    adoro Rhapsody: in this subject ?
    adoro Rhapsody: darren ?
    adoro Rhapsody: letting go ?
    Agatha Macbeth: I think 'didinterested' is a bad choice of word
    Lia Rikugun: i think it can be misleading too
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: ah, how about - letting go of whether the word sounds right or not :)
    Lia Rikugun: it sounds like: I can do what ever i want, or dont do anything, it doesnt matter
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: yes god idea calvcino
    Agatha Macbeth: A wu-wei thing?
    Darren Islar: righ it is just a word
    adoro Rhapsody: wu wei
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Darren Islar: I think the rest is pretty clear
    Bruce Mowbray: ;---)
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: ok

     

    examples for hooks

    Lia Rikugun: what are my hooks?
    Calvino Rabeni: like, sometimes we can notice - the word is not clear, but the seeing actually is
    Agatha Macbeth: Everyone has different hooks
    Darren Islar: and I think addiction here is meant in a much broader way then we normally do
    Darren Islar: the hooks that keeps us in our old patterns and in Samsara
    Darren Islar: those are a lot of hooks!!
    Darren Islar: well a lot are the same
    Darren Islar: we want safety
    Darren Islar: we don't like change
    Darren Islar: we like 'good' feelings
    adoro Rhapsody: but when we loose our hooks
    Darren Islar: we like to be 'happy'
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni likes change and to feel pain too
    Darren Islar: we don't like to be alone
    Agatha Macbeth: We need to unhook the hooks
    Darren Islar: these all can be hooks
    Lia Rikugun: i lie change too
    Lia Rikugun: like
    adoro Rhapsody: i like to be alone


    Darren Islar: do you like to die?
    Agatha Macbeth: Change is good!
    adoro Rhapsody: so we have different hooks
    Calvino Rabeni: Solitude can be golden
    Lia Rikugun: i dotn know never did
    Calvino Rabeni: Haven't *really* tried that yet
    adoro Rhapsody: but not afraid for dying
    Darren Islar: no, but we do have thoughts about it
    Dash Earthboy: i'm in no hurry to find out Darren
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe you did but don't remember ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Darren Islar: and dying is for us the ultimate moment to let go
    Bruce Mowbray agrees, as a hermit, that solitude can be "good" - and also a "hook," however.
    Calvino Rabeni: A variety of thoughts about "death"
    adoro Rhapsody: and life
    Lia Rikugun: but thats just going to happen
    Calvino Rabeni: They say, when it happens - people "dig" it
    Darren Islar: the ultimate change

     

    Bruce shares an experience he had during a meditation with us

    Bruce Mowbray: In the past hour, I was at a meditation in which several "worlds" arose -
    Agatha Macbeth: Can ya dig it man?
    Bruce Mowbray: and I was aware of "dying" to each of them.
    adoro Rhapsody: interesting
    Darren Islar: just going to happen :)
    Lia Rikugun: what di you mean bruce?
    Lia Rikugun: do
    Agatha Macbeth nods @ Bruce
    adoro Rhapsody: tell us
    adoro Rhapsody: bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: It was a well-directed meditation session that seemed to cover all the bases, for me.
    Bruce Mowbray: so I relaxed completely and watched what came up...
    Bruce Mowbray: and that was a "world" -- like a complete world with me at its center...
    Bruce Mowbray: and as each of these rose, I somehow "knew" that I needed to die to it...
    Bruce Mowbray: and shifts happened each time I did.
    Lia Rikugun: hello zon
    Zon Quar: hi all
    Darren Islar: hi Zon
    Agatha Macbeth: Great Bruce! :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, zon.
    adoro Rhapsody: hi zon
    Agatha Macbeth: Hiya zon
    Lia Rikugun: sosomething new arose each time?
    Bruce Mowbray: The "worlds" wew "hooks" -- if you get my meaning here.
    Dash Earthboy: hi zon
    Bruce Mowbray: were.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes Bruce, I get you
    adoro Rhapsody: i see
    Lia Rikugun: hm
    Bruce Mowbray: different metaphors. same meaning.
    Lia Rikugun: so dying was liberating
    Agatha Macbeth: And by 'dying' you 'unhooked'
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes.
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: ecstasy.
    Agatha Macbeth: Calm down! :)
    Darren Islar: :))
    Zon Quar: taking of meditation ?
    adoro Rhapsody: a kind of rebirth
    Lia Rikugun: so interesting thank you
    Calvino Rabeni: I was at the same / similar meditation along with Bruce - one thing to report is that it is still going on, internally

     

    PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder), stress and drugs

    Dash Earthboy: ecstasy is supposed to be good for PTSD
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes Zon?
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Cal - - still going on.
    Agatha Macbeth: PTSD seems to be coming up a lot lately...
    adoro Rhapsody: PTSD ?
    Darren Islar: Post traumatic stress disorder
    Bruce Mowbray: Post Traumatic Stree Disorder.
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    Bruce Mowbray: stress.
    Agatha Macbeth doesn't have stree
    Calvino Rabeni: The use of the drug, for PTSD therapy, takes and intensive support container of therapist help also
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Dash Earthboy: must be nice aggie
    Bruce Mowbray: me neither...;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: It is
    Calvino Rabeni: @aga, I have "stree"
    Agatha Macbeth: Does it hurt?
    Calvino Rabeni: Not in a bad way :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Agatha Macbeth rubs it better
    --BELL--
    Dash Earthboy: we build bigger/stronger muscles by stressing them
    Dash Earthboy: without stress we atrophy
    Zon Quar: gtg, bye all
    Agatha Macbeth: Or streeing them
    Dash Earthboy: bye zon
    Lia Rikugun: bye zon
    adoro Rhapsody: by sun
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now zon, enjoy
    Darren Islar: bye zon,
    Darren Islar: for the record
    Bruce Mowbray: stay unhooked, zon.
    Dash Earthboy: it is too much or the wrong kind of stress that hurts us
    adoro Rhapsody: when a fish is hooked ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Is there a 'right' kind Dash?
    Dash Earthboy: yes, the kind I first described to develop our muscles
    adoro Rhapsody: can hirt
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, physical stress?
    Dash Earthboy: without stress we atrophy
    adoro Rhapsody: hurt
    Agatha Macbeth: As opposed to mental
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i would say without tention we atrophy
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, about stress, it is a rather indiscrimate concept, but there are some distinctions of healthy and not healthy that could be made
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stress, i don´t know
    Dash Earthboy: even without mental stress we atrophy
    Agatha Macbeth: Yaku is probably right
    Agatha Macbeth: Dash is probably right too :)
    Calvino Rabeni: For example "distress"
    Dash Earthboy: that's why solitary confinement can be so damaging to some
    Calvino Rabeni: would be a word people use when they think the stress is not health
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Cooler Hiltz'
    Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Dash. . . but doesn't want to get "stuck" in any of my personal "stressors" (or "stree-ors," weither.
    Dash Earthboy: heh
    adoro Rhapsody: me too
    adoro Rhapsody: i listen to the birds here
    Agatha Macbeth: They listen to you too
    adoro Rhapsody: sound so unstressfull
    Calvino Rabeni: Some people might tolerate solitary confinement better than others, or such is my fantasy that I wouldn't mind it, except in the long run
    Dash Earthboy: i like the story i heard about stress
    Dash Earthboy: and John the Baptist
    Agatha Macbeth: Ok as long as you have a baseball...
    adoro Rhapsody: me too
    Darren Islar: Oh birds wake me up at 4 in the morning
    Bruce Mowbray: better (for me - ALWAYS I speak only for myself) to let the stressors make their point, then slip right through me like arrows flying through space -- no resistance.
    Darren Islar: loads of stress then :-))
    Agatha Macbeth: Or stree
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: but not here
    adoro Rhapsody: i su[ppose
    Bruce Mowbray says, "Bring it on!"
    Agatha Macbeth: Why?
    Calvino Rabeni: PTSD and traumatic responses are not about the events - they depend on how it is responded to and whether long term response patterns are created
    adoro Rhapsody: because here we have an unstressfull atmosphere
    Bruce Mowbray: as Dash has pointed out -- it's one way to grow and to become "stronger" and not to atrophy.
    Agatha Macbeth can relate to that
    Dash Earthboy: you may not be stressed by this atmosphere
    Dash Earthboy: if i wasn't I'd be asleep by now
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Cal about PTSD- - - - which is almost never JUST about the original stressor.
    Bruce Mowbray: Want some coffee, Dash?
    Calvino Rabeni: The organism receives a "challenge" - it's not a stress unless it creates a maladaptive response - or something like that
    Dash Earthboy: no thanks bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: or the organism creates resistance to the event.
    Dash Earthboy: oh please let's not get into semantics
    Agatha Macbeth: I think we are talking different kinds of stress here
    Bruce Mowbray: how so?
    Dash Earthboy: there are all kinds of stress
    Calvino Rabeni: it's semantics with very practical consequences
    Calvino Rabeni: yes there are
    Agatha Macbeth: In physics stress = fracture ultimately
    Bruce Mowbray: sufferers of PTSD will not think this is about semantics.
    Calvino Rabeni: knowing that makes it possible to be adaptive and responsive
    Lia Rikugun: (sorry will go offline little earlier, really tired, have a good night you all! thanks for the great session)
    Dash Earthboy: thanks lea
    Darren Islar: bye Lia
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care Lia, schlaf gut :)
    adoro Rhapsody: bye lia
    Calvino Rabeni: and not result with more addictions and syndromes
    Bruce Mowbray: Stay unhooked, Lia!
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye.
    Dash Earthboy: bye lia
    Lia Rikugun: byebybe

     

    I left at this point and will the the end of the session uncommented


    Dash Earthboy: wow the hour is almost up
    Darren Islar: I'm not completely sure about that Cal
    Agatha Macbeth: An hour of stree :)
    Dash Earthboy: yep
    Bruce Mowbray: streeeeeeee!
    adoro Rhapsody: last minute stree
    Agatha Macbeth: Stree wise
    Darren Islar: it is true that the way we react contributes in a big way to PTSD
    Bruce Mowbray: stree of consciousness...
    Agatha Macbeth: I would imagine so daz, yes
    Dash Earthboy: i have friends with PTSD: male & female
    adoro Rhapsody: oh i see
    Dash Earthboy: caused by war and domestic violence
    Darren Islar: but I think that the stressor do have to be counted in
    Darren Islar: I have PTSD
    Agatha Macbeth: Many things cause stress...
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes Darren?
    Agatha Macbeth: Sorry to hear that
    adoro Rhapsody: so ? can we help ?
    Darren Islar: that's okay
    adoro Rhapsody: u dar ?
    Dash Earthboy: one woman who was hit while using a crosswalk
    Calvino Rabeni: PTSD seems to me like - not different in kind - but maybe different in intensity - than habitual stress habits that everyone has some of them
    Darren Islar: no, but thanks :)
    --BELL--
    Dash Earthboy: reacts to sirens, metal scratching, loud booms
    adoro Rhapsody: even to birdsongs ?
    Dash Earthboy: those are her PTSD hooks
    adoro Rhapsody: kind of alergic reactions ?
    Dash Earthboy: and she can't unhook herself
    adoro Rhapsody: i see
    Darren Islar: everyone has its own hooks, depends on the trauma
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Darren Islar: mine was very early in life, which makes it impossible to see the difference between 'before' and 'after'
    Calvino Rabeni: An interesting kind of experience is - the different response to "stressors' while in meditation - like a loud boom, or getting hit with the zen stick - and seeing the reaction-formation is quite different
    Agatha Macbeth: Understood darren, yes
    Dash Earthboy: yes
    Darren Islar: yes it is
    Agatha Macbeth: Things which happen in formative years can so change your life
    Dash Earthboy: for sure
    adoro Rhapsody: i experienced too
    Darren Islar: yes, but at the same time it has made me aware of so many things in my life
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Dash Earthboy: glad you weren't desensitized by it Darren
    Calvino Rabeni: there's a gift-side to those things
    Darren Islar: in a way it ruined my life, but at the same time it is a very good tutor
    Agatha Macbeth: Mm
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Calvino Rabeni: I understand
    Darren Islar: oh, I was Dash :)
    Dash Earthboy: really? :)
    Darren Islar: sure, it happens with PTSD
    Dash Earthboy: some people do
    Darren Islar: it is a long way home
    Agatha Macbeth: Sadly
    Darren Islar: gaining my sencitivity back
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Dash Earthboy: yes it can be difficult to break through again
    Dash Earthboy: after you build such a protective shell
    adoro Rhapsody: or a wall
    adoro Rhapsody: around u
    Darren Islar: it sure is, expecially because I needed to find out what the shell was
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Another brick in the wall'...
    Darren Islar: now I have a much more clearer view on that
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    adoro Rhapsody: pink floyd told us
    Darren Islar: it isn't gone, but I can see it 'doing its thing'
    Agatha Macbeth: Being seeing? :p
    Dash Earthboy: that's a good thing Darren
    Calvino Rabeni: Most / all modern humans - live with these shells, walls, stuck and numb areas of the psyche, rigidities
    Dash Earthboy: that's why we make casts for broken bones
    Darren Islar: yes Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: It's a lot of work to undo it
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Comfortably numb'
    adoro Rhapsody: we can sure
    adoro Rhapsody: amused to ddeath
    Calvino Rabeni: and not always desirable, perhaps
    Darren Islar: and everyobody is having its own shell
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    adoro Rhapsody: and we can make it smaller
    Dash Earthboy: Aggie you must not like Pink Floyd ;)
    Agatha Macbeth: Sorry
    adoro Rhapsody: or break it down
    Bruce Mowbray: There's an SL group that is entirely devoted to PTSD. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: I can give a LM to anyone who wants it.
    Dash Earthboy: i collect info like that too bruce
    Darren Islar: no thanks, in the meantime I found my own way
    Agatha Macbeth: Glad to hear it Daz :)
    adoro Rhapsody: may be we can help by talking about it
    Darren Islar: but you can give it to Liza, she might use it as a place to send people to in need :)
    Bruce Mowbray: agreed, adoro, as we have been doing here today.
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    adoro Rhapsody: it helps
    adoro Rhapsody: shell helps
    Darren Islar: yes, the shell is a protectiong
    Dash Earthboy: and a hook
    Darren Islar: and need to be respected
    adoro Rhapsody: both
    Darren Islar: tearing it down stone by stone
    Agatha Macbeth: Fortress = Prison
    Darren Islar: finally being able to unhook it
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Bruce Mowbray: we built our shells because they served our survival - at one time.
    Dash Earthboy: i'm reminded of the Simon and Garfunkel song "I Am a Rock"
    Darren Islar: if you want to break through, you probably end up with a big bump on your head
    Agatha Macbeth: 'I am an island'
    Darren Islar: or worse :)
    adoro Rhapsody: and a rock feels no pain
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Ewam.
    Agatha Macbeth: 'If i'd never loved I never would have cried'
    adoro Rhapsody: and an island never dies
    Bruce Mowbray: Ewan.
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Ewan
    Darren Islar: right Bruce
    Dash Earthboy: hiding in my room, safe within my wwomb
    Darren Islar: hi Ewan
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks
    Dash Earthboy: i touch no one and no one touches me
    adoro Rhapsody: hi ewan
    Dash Earthboy: hi ewan
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello ewan
    --BELL--
    Bruce Mowbray: even such solitary confinement can be survival enhancing.
    Agatha Macbeth: Thanks for a really thought-provoking session folks
    Agatha Macbeth: I'm away to look at my plot, take care
    Darren Islar: bye Agatha
    adoro Rhapsody: it was a pleasure
    Dash Earthboy: good evening Agatha
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    Darren Islar: splash :)))
    Dash Earthboy: starting to look like "boys night out" here
    Ewan Bonham: lol
    Dash Earthboy: LOL
    Darren Islar: hmmmm, yes.......to a certain extend though.....
    Dash Earthboy: bruce can you give us a good laugh?
    Bruce Mowbray: I trust that you're feeling neither stressedm nor hooked, nor Streeeeed, tonight, Ewan.
    Calvino Rabeni: Who wants to be the sensitive one ? :)
    Darren Islar: since most oldies know that Liza and I are the same person
    Ewan Bonham: Streeed?
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, I like "stree" :)
    Darren Islar: from now on we are not stressed but streeeeeee
    Bruce Mowbray: some of are feeling "streed" tonight, Ewan.
    Ewan Bonham: Darren?
    Bruce Mowbray: guess again.
    Ewan Bonham: What does it mean?
    Bruce Mowbray: it's when you experience stress becauswe of a typo.
    Ewan Bonham: LOL
    Calvino Rabeni: "Stree" is the fun part of stress, at the beginning of it, before it gets to be a grind. Stree rrhymes with "WHEEEE"
    Darren Islar: streeeeeed or my other remark?
    Dash Earthboy: hehe
    Bruce Mowbray: because (oHHHHH streeeee!)
    Ewan Bonham: good
    Calvino Rabeni: Like on the roller coaster ride, people pay money for that kind of stress
    Dash Earthboy: yep
    Bruce Mowbray: yup.
    Darren Islar: not me :))
    Bruce Mowbray: or a scary movie.
    Darren Islar: now you're talking
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: some people's whole lives are a roller coaster.
    Ewan Bonham: scary can be stressful
    adoro Rhapsody: stress can be excitement
    Calvino Rabeni: Stree starts the same as stress, like the Serpent in the garden
    Ewan Bonham: yes, it can be positive stress
    Calvino Rabeni: but it doesn't end up in the same bind
    Calvino Rabeni: It just turns to excitement and dissipates
    Dash Earthboy: not for some people
    Bruce Mowbray: Cal -- are you saying that 'stree' is unhooked, but "stress" is hooked?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Ewan Bonham: Well if i was not stressed I wouldn't need to stree
    Dash Earthboy: i hear ya Ewan
    Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡
    Bruce Mowbray notices how quickly Ewan has adopted the new vocabulary.
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Ewan Bonham: bruce, i have been reading the Wikkis
    Dash Earthboy: do these sessions normally go way over an hour?
    adoro Rhapsody: he is a fast student
    Calvino Rabeni: Stree comes first - maybe if one has stress, the process can be reversed to stree - running the alchemy in reverse
    Bruce Mowbray: What! You mean that my typo ("stree") has already made it into the wiki's?
    Ewan Bonham: cal ã‹¡
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it is bound for glory, Bruce
    Darren Islar: :))
    Bruce Mowbray: sometimes they go way over an hour, Dash - but folks are welcome to come and go without "blame."
    Ewan Bonham: Bruce....perhaps..that may be a source of stress for you
    Dash Earthboy: i see
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Ewan, but I have quite enough already.
    adoro Rhapsody: succes can be stressfull
    Calvino Rabeni: suck - cess
    Calvino Rabeni: eck - cess
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Dash Earthboy: starting to develop a "cess" pool here, huh?
    Bruce Mowbray: Bob Dylan: "She knows there's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
    Dash Earthboy: Love Minus Zero
    Calvino Rabeni: pro - cess
    adoro Rhapsody: ac cess
    Bruce Mowbray: ab cess.
    Ewan Bonham: Is there a pre cess
    Darren Islar: so what does 'cess' means then
    Ewan Bonham: Is there an inter cess
    Calvino Rabeni: Notice ... how each of these "cess" has a different Feel to it
    Calvino Rabeni: Or in your own native language, something similar I suppose
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: hi there
    Ewan Bonham: Hello Steve
    Darren Islar: hi Grey
    Ewan Bonham: Hello grey
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, STTU -- and welcome back!
    adoro Rhapsody: hi grey
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: hi everone
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: thx
    Dash Earthboy: hi grey
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi, STTU :)
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, I give up - the universe is bigger, I submit :)
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: mayeb i should change my name its to long/strange
    adoro Rhapsody: Hey!
    Dash Earthboy: good talking with y'all
    --BELL--
    Dash Earthboy: catch ya later
    Darren Islar: slave without a chain and grey without a beard
    Bruce Mowbray: Have a good dtress-less evening, Dash.
    Bruce Mowbray: stress-less.
    Darren Islar: bye Dash
    adoro Rhapsody: stress less
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: lol darren
    Darren Islar: with a lot of stree
    Bruce Mowbray: mostly stree -- we can wish.
    Darren Islar: bruce made a new word for us grey, and Cal can explain :)
    Calvino Rabeni: If you are stree - twise, then you might have less stress
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: a new word?
    Bruce Mowbray: yep - - - a word only an hour old.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Bruce coined the word "stree"
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: hmm
    Bruce Mowbray: actually my lazy finger coined it.
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: stree
    Bruce Mowbray: yup.
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: sounds liek a sneaze
    Calvino Rabeni: it is the formative phase of experience that doesn't become grim like "stress"
    Bruce Mowbray: roughly defined, it meanthe opposite of "stress"
    Bruce Mowbray: means the.
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: sneeze
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: ow ok
    Calvino Rabeni: If one is aware, things might not go from "stree" to create "stress"
    Ewan Bonham: Perhaps being forgiven for having stress
    Bruce Mowbray: bless you ---- in fact, STREE you.
    Calvino Rabeni: Streee is freeeee
    Ewan Bonham: or stress forgiveness
    Calvino Rabeni: Stress is "hooked"
    Darren Islar: Stree is free and stress is hooked
    adoro Rhapsody: and stre is unhooked
    Calvino Rabeni: If we go back to the very start of the session, the topic of staying unhooked camed up
    Darren Islar: sounds like a good new vision :)
    anonymous: hi guys
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, anonymous.
    Darren Islar: hi anonymous
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: hi anonymous
    Calvino Rabeni: and this stree concept is its evolution
    adoro Rhapsody: hi anonymous
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: hmm ok
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, one might say that STREE is still emerging.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    adoro Rhapsody: its not hyped yet
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, and not yet commoditized
    anonymous: hey guys i bought some linden dollars how long does it take to reach your account
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, is not yet co-opted by some empire or major corporations.
    Calvino Rabeni: can't sell it to self- or others -
    adoro Rhapsody: some early adopters took it
    Calvino Rabeni: And if they they try - DON"T BUY
    Ewan Bonham: anonymous. it does take a few minutes
    adoro Rhapsody: or hooked to it
    Bruce Mowbray: just click on me and click "Pay" -- and I would be STREE to receive all that you want to give me (but promise nothing).
    Calvino Rabeni: Insist on the genuine "stree" - accept no substitutes
    adoro Rhapsody: satisfaction guaranteed
    Bruce Mowbray: NO NO don't give it to me!!! Just kidding for the STREE ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Karma - horrors :)
    adoro Rhapsody: this stree is made possible bu LÓreal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    Bruce Mowbray has taken a vow of Linden poverty.
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: bye yak
    adoro Rhapsody: because u r worth it
    Darren Islar: bye Yaku :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Yaku.
    adoro Rhapsody: Hey!
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni assumes Bruce will divest himself of lindens
    Bruce Mowbray already has. . . several times over.
    Darren Islar: the stree is making us 'closer' :))
    anonymous: does anyone want to pay me to dance
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni thinks the group needs a "stree" animation like oni-gokko
    Darren Islar: not me anonymous
    adoro Rhapsody: but dont get hooked
    Darren Islar: noooooo Cal:)
    Ewan Bonham: I will pay you with the dance
    Bruce Mowbray: I paid her one linden.
    Bruce Mowbray: cool, anonymous. . . here's some more.
    Darren Islar: oops crashed
    anonymous: wow ty
    Bruce Mowbray thinks: Wow! I'm feeling more stree now!
    adoro Rhapsody: i can imagine
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni - streee !
    Bruce Mowbray: Time for me to attend to my stree-less stomach -- and scrape up some supper.
    Bruce Mowbray: All be stree-ful. And thanks!
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    Darren Islar: bye Bruce
    adoro Rhapsody: ave
    Ewan Bonham: by Bruce
    anonymous: anyone else like me to dance for dollar
    adoro Rhapsody: no money
    anonymous: ill give you a free dance then
    adoro Rhapsody: wow
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    Ewan Bonham: It better be a goodone
    --BELL--
    anonymous: ok guys see ya later i gotta go dance for dollar
    Darren Islar: almost midnight
    Darren Islar: need to go
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    Darren Islar: see you all later :)
    adoro Rhapsody: later
    Ewan Bonham: by Darren
    Calvino Rabeni: I need to fly now also
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    Calvino Rabeni: Good talking with you - see you later

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    What an interesting session. Reading part of this I was thinking of Pema's chapter from two weeks ago, describing "Death, where is thy sting?"
    Posted 19:54, 30 Jul 2010
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