2010.08.01 19:00 - Between Desire and Paradise

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     The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.
    This session has three distinctly different segments, and went in unexpected directions.

    Archmage Atlantis: Greetings, Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello, Archmage :)
    Archmage Atlantis: There is a question in your mine
    Calvino Rabeni: Mind? or Mine, or Yours? maybe both?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll tell you what it was ...
    Archmage Atlantis: k., pls
    Calvino Rabeni: Just a second :)
    Archmage Atlantis: k
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Mitzi :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I have a felt sense of presence, like an entity were hovering over my shoulders
    Calvino Rabeni: Now dissipating :)
    Archmage Atlantis: One does not know prophesy, till it is.....listening to John Lennon
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... I think that was me ...
    Archmage Atlantis: Imagine
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... hovering over your shoulders just now ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi Arch, Hi Calvino ...I'm glad to be here ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Arch had just asked - there's a question in your mind
    Calvino Rabeni: And of course he was right
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: if there's a question in (our) minds?
    Calvino Rabeni: I think so
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: and what is that question?
    Calvino Rabeni: So the one that was there as he asked was this:
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... we should share?
    Archmage Atlantis: and the question is, Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: "How's life, between desire and paradise?"
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: whew ... that's a very specific framing for the potentially very generic bland question "How's Life?"
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes eh?
    Archmage Atlantis: simple....it is life
    Calvino Rabeni: In theory, true, Arch :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Arch, would I be "hearing you" well if I thought you are saying that the parameters of our experience are desire and the fulfillment of it?
    Archmage Atlantis: No, not at all Mitzi
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Then, I'd be glad to hear you say more on this ...
    Archmage Atlantis: I see you, do you see me?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yet, I can never see you
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yes, we are all constrained wtihout our particular perspectives ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ha ha ... I meant to type "within our particular perspectives"
    Archmage Atlantis: sounds reasonable, Mizi
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Funny that my fingers typed "without"

    Archmage Atlantis: both ways
    Calvino Rabeni: Usually, I'm not enthusiastic about declarations of "always" and "never"...
    Calvino Rabeni: If I assumed I could see Arch or Mitzi substantially as well as I could "see" myself, it wouldn't be too far from true
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: (Mitzi grins ... aha, maybe a nice little tussle may ensue)
    Archmage Atlantis: Another question, . do he :"doctorw withoujt borders" heal?
    Calvino Rabeni: ... although Mitzi may object :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... I think that's a big assumption though ... and the definition of the word "well" would need to be somewhat specified ... how "well"?
    Calvino Rabeni: "Well enough for government work"
    Calvino Rabeni: (just kidding)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Arch, that new question doens't interest me asmuch as your previous ones
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Why did you feel to change the topic?
    Archmage Atlantis: Cal, is truth to me
    Archmage Atlantis: Same topic
    Archmage Atlantis: just looking at resu;ts
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I could agree that there is no way to *KNOW* for *SURE* whether we see someone in any accurate way ... nor whether they see themselves ... again, defintions of "acurate" and "well" would need to be discussed, and made somewhat agreeable to all. are seeing
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, I see you
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Second Life adds yet another layer of illusion on top of the everyday ones ... we can't event assume gender, appearance, age or anything about each other, when we are here.
    Archmage Atlantis: I know
    Archmage Atlantis: I am male, gay, 58 (soon to be 59 i
    Archmage Atlantis: in Rl
    Archmage Atlantis: I am not afraid of what I am
    Calvino Rabeni: English speaker, embedded in modern world / american culture, educated ... true of all three
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hey, we have one parameter in common at least, fairly lose, guess which one
    Archmage Atlantis: I look to Dolly Parton as a woman who speaks with honesty
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: strangely belied by her dishonest body
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: or perhaps that's what gives her permission to speadk honestly
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: when's your birthday, Arch? mind's next week
    Archmage Atlantis: Her body is not dishonest....she always says what surrgeries made her
    Archmage Atlantis: Mine is 9/10.... Virgo
    Calvino Rabeni: One slight difference between Arch and myself is the facility for easy use of media references as metaphors or illustrations - which I lack, relative to Arch (but share, relative to cultural outsiders)
    Archmage Atlantis: To say is to be
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll go along with that, Arch

    Archmage Atlantis: tks Cal, as your av looks like a rough character
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for the reflection, Archmage :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps the monks robes are softer
    Calvino Rabeni: the again ... :)
    Calvino Rabeni: *then
    Archmage Atlantis: Pick which is true... toyour
    Archmage Atlantis: Blending seems to be allowed
    Calvino Rabeni: ... waiting for that to complete
    Calvino Rabeni: ... true in what way?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hey Arch, I'm unsure how to engage with you .... you've been driving the conversation .. but it feels fragmented, jumpoint around ... not sure what could emerge from this rhythm ... or is this pretty much your style ...?
    Archmage Atlantis: in the that relfects your heart
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes. Miralee
    Archmage Atlantis: It is one of my animal selves
    Calvino Rabeni: Chemistry ... or is it alchemy?
    Calvino Rabeni: Arch was suggesting for me to choose how to define / project myself
    Calvino Rabeni: relative to the heart
    Archmage Atlantis: It is interesting to watch entities defined themsleves\
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes, interesting, how do you choose?
    Archmage Atlantis: By the one that seem most honest
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes - that *is* the question :) thanks
    Archmage Atlantis: My father said to be honest
    Archmage Atlantis: and I will see those who are
    Calvino Rabeni: Other fathers said the same thing, or expressed it in their actions
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: In SL - I choose to try to bring out another side of myself that is hidden - so, not "honest" perhaps ... or perhaps more so in the sense of the larger self
    Calvino Rabeni: I'd be happy to consider, honouring our fathers
    Calvino Rabeni: the honesty would be self-defined, mitzi

    Reality check ... dropping down

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Cinda :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hey, Lucinda is here. Hi CInda.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: It's a good word, "honest"
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi I am here to say that I have had very sad news
    Archmage Atlantis: I often wonder why those who present theseves as
    Archmage Atlantis: tell us Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: My conductor has been killed in a car accident in a rain storm driving
    Lucinda Lavender: a car crossed the road and hit him.
    Lucinda Lavender: he was enroute to a music festival...
    Lucinda Lavender: I am in shock...
    Archmage Atlantis: may his being,be.....may his time have been worthwhile
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Your "conductor"? Of a musical group, orhestra?
    Lucinda Lavender: yes it was...
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni takes a moment (or more) to let this sink in .... sorry Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: Orchestra Seattle Sattle Chamber Singers
    Archmage Atlantis: Natue cam be cruel, we can not to be
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Wow, that's awful! PLease feel free to share if you would like, or just be here ...
    Lucinda Lavender: not sure why...but thought I must just say that this is my shock .
    Archmage Atlantis: Accept
    Lucinda Lavender: I was just going to go eat when a call came in.
    Lucinda Lavender: I will just say he was a wonderful musician
    Lucinda Lavender: and a good friend
    Calvino Rabeni: This is a very fresh shock ...
    Lucinda Lavender: I have been lucky to make music with him since 93...
    Archmage Atlantis: Did this entity give, or did it only take?
    Lucinda Lavender: very giving
    Archmage Atlantis: Then we shall give in the entities honor
    Archmage Atlantis: Come,sit with me
    Archmage Atlantis: I iwill hold you
    Lucinda Lavender: so weet...
    Lucinda Lavender: sweet..
    Archmage Atlantis: I am gay tho, so no erotica
    Lucinda Lavender: I think I am so in shock that I cannot even sit!
    Lucinda Lavender: yet. :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I appreciate you gift...
    Archmage Atlantis: accept
    Lucinda Lavender: and I must see how I can take this in.
    Lucinda Lavender: I had thought for some reason that there would not be a season...no reason but I kept thinking that...
    Lucinda Lavender: I am not even ready to cry!
    Lucinda Lavender: I will just play the music and see what is to come.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I think we extend both forward and backward in time, at least a little bit ...
    Archmage Atlantis: It sucks, it shoudn[t have happened, where is the God/Powwer I believed in
    Lucinda Lavender: well...there is in my mind ...that the universe advises but is not attached
    Archmage Atlantis: He is born again
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: we don't really know enough to say "it shouldn't have happened" - such things are mystery ... we can say, It sucks, I'm angry, upset etc.
    Archmage Atlantis: It may be a myth
    Lucinda Lavender: perhaps so...we were the masters of singing the bach requiems...
    Archmage Atlantis: But it works for me
    Lucinda Lavender: we have sung all the requeims
    Lucinda Lavender: requiems
    Lucinda Lavender: and in all the languages they come in
    Calvino Rabeni: in the past ... but not - yet - for him
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Lucinda Lavender: and so I can imagine there will be an outpouring
    Lucinda Lavender: and the singing of music for him
    Archmage Atlantis: so,now....u will sing them all again
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting that my av will not sit down
    Lucinda Lavender: oh yes
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: those requiems can become more mythic in their being sung for him, which you may be doing

    Lucinda Lavender: well I shall go now...thank you for listening and let the passage he makes be in beauty...
    Archmage Atlantis: When the general falls, the boy takes up the flag
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Be well, my dear. Let this deepen your appreciation of the short time we have on this earth.

    And now we return to the more comfortable world of speculation and fiction...

    Archmage Atlantis: Nite. Mitzi
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: are you departing?
    Archmage Atlantis: No
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Trying to get rid of me so you can have Calvino all to yourself?!? :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Ummmm. no
    Calvino Rabeni: Pro - voc - a - tress
    Archmage Atlantis: Trying to be gracious
    Archmage Atlantis: It is too difficult at this time
    Archmage Atlantis: Nite all
    Calvino Rabeni: Actually I appreciated Arch's offer to Lucinda
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Actually I kind of feel a sense that I am invited to the role of provocatress here in this space ...
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Arch, blessings
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: It felt heartfelt to me at that moment .,..
    Calvino Rabeni: That could be true Mitzi
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: weel is it just the two of us for now? We can have a topic perhaps ... some discussion
    Calvino Rabeni: heheh
    Calvino Rabeni: Nice ... a discussion or a contemplation ? (eyebrows raised provocatively)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: at leat my provocations are designed to develop into a flow ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: that engages others
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes true :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Well, I've been contemplating one of my role models, a functional one, Hercule Poirot ...
    Calvino Rabeni: (getting ready ....)
    Calvino Rabeni: OK... tell me about HP?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: fictional! I meant
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hercule Poirot (hereinafter to be referred to as just HP) takes nothing at face value
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I see, ... and French as well?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: He ignores all conventional thinking, he looks at each and every detail
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh?
    Calvino Rabeni: WIth what gaze?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: and he wants each element to make sense, to resolve the puzzle of who killed the victim
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: or stole the jewels or whatever the mystery is.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: He is Belgian ... and looks with the gaze of the dispassionate, all seeing eye ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, my mistake
    Calvino Rabeni: A Belgian then.
    Calvino Rabeni: Scary
    Calvino Rabeni: What does HP look like?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yet he is unfailingly polite, and very respectful of each person, even the murderer.
    Calvino Rabeni: But of course
    Calvino Rabeni: provided you mean "the suspect" :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'm watching him now, on DVD. He is middle aged, balding, and has a neat, funny mustache. He dresses impeccably, kind of like a dandy,and the actor portrays his walk as mincing
    Calvino Rabeni: Mincing - as cutting things up into little equal pieces carefully
    Calvino Rabeni: which seems appropriate
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: small steps, very precise
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Not to be at all swayed by dramatic gestures

    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yes! He is unfooled by all the posturing and emotionality (and unclarity) of normal folks.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yet, he doesn't seem cynical ... he enjoys life and accepts the unawareness of people
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, then - let us examine the HP in question, in no uncertain terms !
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.google.com/images?q=hercule+poirot
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: (shyly) .,.. I must say, I admire HP!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I even hope to emulate him!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... perhaps not the moustache though ... I may find another affectation to become attached to
    Calvino Rabeni: I was wondering about how to replace that
    Calvino Rabeni: The moustache could strike fear into the hearts of criminals anywhere !
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I affect hats, vests and scarves ... a Bohemian fashiosense ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: The tightness and controlled look of the mustache expresses the thightness and control of his mind and awareness
    Calvino Rabeni: Precisely.
    Calvino Rabeni: No detail too small for scrutiny
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'm not like *THAT* - tight ... uptight - but I am very careful in accepting assumptions...
    Calvino Rabeni: But behind the facade that HP presents .... what ?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: When he violates the rule of "no accuracy in communication", it is ONLY becuase he has been INVITED to do so ... by someone who wishes to hire his services
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: He is materialistic and loves his beatufiul furniture, his impeccably tailored clothes, and his reputation
    Calvino Rabeni: Did you mean "accuracy in communication" ?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: 'He likes women too, but is happy just speaking with them, and never loses any dignity.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh, remember our conversation the other week ... where I said "accuracy in personal communication is neither needed nor wanted ... thus "*NO* accuracy wanted ...!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: He sees the truth but speaks it only by request, not uninvited.
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh I see, in that sense.
    Calvino Rabeni: So what "fuels" this character?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: That's my ideal ... wait till someone easks your advice,never offer it juswilly nilly - or it won't be heard
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Fuels him - intrest in solving the puzzle?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes?
    Calvino Rabeni: Besides that?

    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Unravelling the layers of illusion to find the truth.
    Calvino Rabeni: Ordering his world through fastidious logic
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ALso ... justice. He becomes angry when innocent people are killed and is satisfied when evil killers are brought to justice.
    Calvino Rabeni: Truly a heroic quest, if you don't mind my saying so
    Calvino Rabeni: So HP is a "hero of logic"
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: The underlying emotional drive to right wrongs has to be there - the puzzle solving is probably a laver over top of that.
    Calvino Rabeni: I see, yes, otherwise he could stay in his flat with the crossword
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yes, he is a hero of logic! Logic in service of the good.
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Such a good character - he lives on long past the life of his creator, Agatha Christie
    Calvino Rabeni: As an archetype ought!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: She must have been channeling a side of herself when she created h im
    Calvino Rabeni: Does he have a foil or side kick?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh yes! One main foil, the conventional minded Captian Hastings. And, his secretary, the shrp Miss Lemon, and Chief Inspector Japp of Scotland yard, who seems to be in most of the epoisodes.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hastings is so conventional, HP uses him to bounce theories off of. If Hastings believes it, HP sees it can't possibly be right.
    Calvino Rabeni: Now here's a question- what manner of cases is he able to take on?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: One at a time.
    Calvino Rabeni: And secondly, how does he rise above his competition, such as Sherlock Holmes?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh, what manner. Lots of murders, and jewel thievery. From time to time, he'll do something minor because it intrests him.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes one at a time, small precise steps here are good.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I think he's very SHerlockian atcually, down to the conventional minded sidekick.
    Calvino Rabeni: Holmes was lazy, however. HP is not, I presume
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: THe difference would be chiefly in superficial style - but the incisive intellect as the main asset is the same.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Holmes was lazy?!?
    Calvino Rabeni: and do they differ, in the use of physical evidence compared to observation of character?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: HP uses both. Character is very important.
    Calvino Rabeni: No doubt.
    Calvino Rabeni: I would venture a guess, that HP actually only uses small clues to establish or refute some synthetic assessment of the case as a whole... ?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: So, that reminds me of why I like HP. In the stories, it becomes clear towards the end that HP "had the person's number" from the very start in terms of character. Yet nobody realizes that he sees right through all their personality and posturing.
    Calvino Rabeni: But the interesting point of methodology is - how he gets to that point
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I was referring to you last point - in parallel
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Usually there's some small question or piece of evidence that makes no sense. HP doesn't just disregard it. He won't rest until he clarifies it's significance.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: So the ability to see right through to the person underneath, yet still enjoy those whose essence has been revealed, that's what I wish to emulate.
    Calvino Rabeni: He's not a "just the facts, ma'am" approach

    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni reads Mitzi's last statement at least three times, scrutinizing it for details that support or refute the sense he has of Mitzi ....
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh yes - and then appreciates what it reveals
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Wow! I'm feeling ... ummm ... aa bit thrilled ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: What does it reveal to you?
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, the mitzi that can be figured is not the full true bonafide mitzi ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ha ha ... all right then ... didn't mean to put you on the spot (actually I did) ...
    Calvino Rabeni: I hesitate to commit an act of idolatry
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Well, I would worry that froma ll that I would be seen as a cold, egotistic smartass
    Calvino Rabeni: um, "lol" :)
    Calvino Rabeni: well lets's see
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: at least by *some*, but you and I share an appreciation of the observer's stance and its value
    Calvino Rabeni: if you want not to be seen that way ... I think it could be arranged
    Calvino Rabeni: Agreed
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: (sighs in reliev)
    Calvino Rabeni: My guess is, It hinges on a kind of honesty
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: uh huh?
    Calvino Rabeni: Well that issue was pending nearly since the beginning of the session, when Archmage was here
    Calvino Rabeni: But I don't mean to tease or deflect, surely
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll see what I can do and get back with you on it
    Calvino Rabeni: And may very well do my homework and watch a HP episode - can you recommend one?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: "see what you can do"??
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, in the sense my response was incomplete to the following question:
    Calvino Rabeni: Wow! I'm feeling ... ummm ... aa bit thrilled ... [20:47] Mitzi Mimistrobell: What does it reveal to you?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh, there are tons of them - some have ridiculous premises. One I liked I saw recently was called "The Cornish mystery" - it's an older one - the newer ones are even mor lavish in terms of sets, costumes. All set in the 30s, goregous old cars, Art Nouveau architectue etc.

    Calvino Rabeni: Are there online episides for free?
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, and any where HP shows adaptability to rustic settings?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I don't know - you can try and see - I recnt mine from my local cool video store (locally owned, have everything in the world)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) probably the local library would have it
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes, the ENglish countryside, just divinie
    Calvino Rabeni: I have no TV or dvd player - I live in a remote hut
    Calvino Rabeni: But ... I can find someone to share their equipment, no problem
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Ah well then! Try online then
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Does your computer play dvds?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not sure, it might :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Well I'll sign off for now ... thanks for listening to my adoration of the archetype Hercule Poirot..
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm looking forward to a new literary experience
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for sharing :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: So long!
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye for now :)


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