2010.08.02 07:00 - Natural Forests (or not) and Secret Gardens (or not)

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku who was joined by Storm, Bleu, Sartre, Bruce, Aphrodite, a bit later by Zen then, finally, by Selene.



    Eden Haiku: Good morning Storm ;)

    Storm Nordwind: Good morning! :)

    Eden Haiku: How are you?

    Storm Nordwind: I was a little ill over the weekend but i seem to be OK now thank you

    Eden Haiku: Oh! Sorry to hear you had been a little ill, glad it is over ;)

    Eden Haiku: Was listening to a podcast about biodiversity this morning.

    Storm Nordwind: Oh? :)

    Eden Haiku: The biologist was saying that there are no more natural forests in Europe. I found that very sad.

    Eden Haiku: To me, there seem to be many natural forests left in Europe...

    Bleu Oleander: hi Eden, Storm

    Storm Nordwind: That's surprising. What constitutes a natural forest?

    Eden Haiku: Good morning Bleu :)

    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Bleu

    Storm Nordwind wonders what an unnatural forest looks like ;)

    Eden Haiku:The biologist was saying that a forest that has been tampered by men (with planting, farming or such) is no more a natural one.

    Storm Nordwind: I think I would prefer an unnatural one to none at all!

    Eden Haiku: And that the great majority of forests in Europe had been tampered in some way.

    Storm Nordwind: Of course they have. All the forests in the world have! They all breathe in the air that we breathe out! :)

    Bleu Oleander: hard to find any spot on earth that hasn't been tampered with by man!

    Eden Haiku: That's not what he meant I think...:)

    Storm Nordwind: "Tamper" might be a rather subjective and emotive word, I suspect!

    Bleu Oleander: yes

    Eden Haiku: Well, I'm translating, maybe he used a softer word, not sure :)

    Storm Nordwind smiles

    Storm Nordwind: It seems odd that, because we may have a higher intellectual intelligence than many other beings on the planet, that what we do is labelled 'unnatural', whereas what anything else does is 'natural' ;)

    Sartre Placebo: hey everyone

    Storm Nordwind: Hi Sartre!

    Eden Haiku: Hi Sartre!

    Bleu Oleander: probably a function of us not wanting to be considered "naturally" as destructive as we are




    Bleu Oleander: hi Sartre

    Sartre Placebo: may i have a note with the first 15 minutes ?

    Sartre Placebo: sry for being late

    Eden Haiku: Yes

    Sartre Placebo: actually this session sounded interesting so far :)

    Eden Haiku: Sorry, it took me a long time to create the note ;)

    Sartre Placebo: muchas gracias :)

    Eden Haiku: If I may ask Sartre, is Yaku still upset about something that happened in another sim? I found that log where you (Yaku) talk about this so very interesting.

    Bleu Oleander: don't know that story

    Sartre Placebo: yes, it's all kind of resolved

    Sartre Placebo: i mean there needs to grow a bit grass now and the subject needs to erode

    Eden Haiku: Ah, good. But it was interesting to see how the upset made Yaku open up and share about his feelings.

    Bleu Oleander: hi Bruce

    Sartre Placebo: i was never even upset, i was scared

    Eden Haiku: Good morning Bruce!

    Sartre Placebo: hey bruce

    Bruce Mowbray: Bonjour, Eden, Sartre, Bleu, and Storm.

    Bleu Oleander: scared?

    Eden Haiku: Oh! nice to see you again Aphrodite :)

    Bruce Mowbray: Bonjour, Aph!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hell - it's so nice to be here

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello I mean!

    Bleu Oleander: hi Aphrodite

    Bruce Mowbray: :-)

    Storm Nordwind: Greetings :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu, Stormwind

    Aphrodite Macbain: sartre

    Eden Haiku: We have been talking about forests and feelings so far :)

    Bruce Mowbray: Please continue...

    Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting

    Eden Haiku: Hum....

    Bleu Oleander: hi Zen

    Bruce Mowbray: Bonjour, Zen.

    Eden Haiku: We were kind of going nowhere ... giggles...

    Storm Nordwind: Good afternoon Zen :)

    Eden Haiku: Hello Zen, so good to see you!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen

    Zen Arado: Bonjour tous les gens

    Bruce Mowbray: Going nowhere in a forest with feelings?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ca va?

    Eden Haiku: Lost in the forest of our feelings...

    Zen Arado: ca va bien merci

    Zen Arado: et vous?


    Aphrodite's Secret Garden


    Aphrodite Macbain: I had just been telling Bruce that my childhood fantasy was having a secret garden

    Eden Haiku: Tres bien merci :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: pas mal

    Zen Arado: :)

    Eden Haiku: A secret garden, like in this wonderful children novel?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes exactly. It inspired that fantasy

    Eden Haiku: How was your secret garden Aphrodite?

    Aphrodite Macbain: I wanted to find it. It's so rich in sympolism isn't it?

    Eden Haiku: Ah, yes!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Peaceful, safe, quiet, full of beautiful growing things including lots of birds'




    Aphrodite Macbain: All nature, little culture

    Aphrodite Macbain: I think that longing is built into all of us

    Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps the forests are part of that garden

    Aphrodite Macbain: Stop me or I'll natter on

    Eden Haiku: smiles at Aphrodite

    Bruce Mowbray: I love your nattering. . . do natter some more, Aph.

    Storm Nordwind: perhaps you have read the novel of the same name. I remember it was dramatised and broadcast several times on radio

    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) I'd really like to know whether that garden, of myth, legend and biblical history is something you all hanker for

    Eden Haiku: During the pause, I was taken back to a secret garden of mine in the forest when I was a kid. Lots of ferns, moss, rocks, water holes, I loved that place. It felt like being there again.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Nice!

    Aphrodite Macbain: How far back was that?

    Zen Arado: like my SL garden?

    Aphrodite Macbain:  YES! That comes very close

    Eden Haiku: Yes Storm. It is also a great movie by Agnes Holland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Garden

    Aphrodite Macbain: All that is missing is a unicorn

    Storm Nordwind: The novel? Around 1910 I believe. The radio dramatisations were 1960s onwards

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- that was the book but the idea of a secret garden has been around for eons

    Aphrodite Macbain: idea

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce - do you live in a garden?

    Storm Nordwind: I have no hankering at all for a secret garden. Gardens - yes. Secret - no.

    Zen Arado: it needs high walls I think

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, I agree - I have a hard time with the secret part except I know I wont be disturbed if I go there

    Storm Nordwind prefers to share the beauty with everyone :)

    Zen Arado: I always like painting gardens

    Eden Haiku: Secret places are nice I think. Sometimes, we need to hide, don't we?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, and would be best if it were a garden to hide in

    Aphrodite Macbain: I think that's what national parks are

    Bruce Mowbray: Hermits, like me, are great hiders.

    Storm Nordwind feels no need to hide but sometimes likes more open spaces to more crowded ones

    Bruce Mowbray feels like hiding a lot.

    Aphrodite Macbain wonders whether Stormwind is claustrophobic

    Eden Haiku: When I was a young child, I felt the need to withdraw in the forest to untangle myself from things I could not understand around adults.

    Storm Nordwind: Not unless he's locked in a box!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Nice to hid in a place where you can grow your own tomatoes

    Bleu Oleander: bfn .... have a great day everyone!

    Bruce Mowbray: "Untangle" is a great verb, Eden.

    Zen Arado: bye Bleu

    Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu :) Have a great day!

    Bruce Mowbray: bye bye, bleu.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Bleu

    Bruce Mowbray: Also nice, Aph, to hide in a place like a forest.

    Aphrodite Macbain: I think forests and gardens are buried in our psyches, a place we yearn for in this concrete world of ours

    Aphrodite Macbain: yearn for

    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, an infinite forest.

    Eden Haiku: Used to feel all wrapped up in adults's expectations. The moss and the ferns and the spruce trees were not expecting anything from me. No obediance, nothing. ;)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Exactly! No culture, all nature

    Bruce Mowbray: totally relate to that, Eden!


    Yearning for Human Interaction? Or not? Why do we come to PaB?

    Human interaction.jpg


    Aphrodite Macbain: But obviously we also yearn for human interaction -

    Zen Arado: think we humans feel most comfortable beside lakes and woods

    Aphrodite Macbain: that's why we're here, for instance

    Eden Haiku: During my morning walk, a tiny tiny green caterpillar was floating in mid-air, connected to an almost invisible thread :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Lovely

    Storm Nordwind: Are you quite sure that's why we're here Aphrodite? :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: But that was you who saw it; others might not have

    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps the caterpillar was spinning a forest to hide in.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Storm, I was wondering whether we are here for human interaction

    Bruce Mowbray is here for avatar interaction.

    Eden Haiku: Maybe what we do here is invite others in our secret gardens?

    Aphrodite Macbain: That we can't always hide in a forest

    Storm Nordwind: I suspect it varies, between different people and different days and times.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Storm, why do you come to PaB




    Aphrodite Macbain: surely to connect to others

    Storm Nordwind: not particularly to connect with others. I already feel connected. Whether others do is up to them I guess! It varies, from day to day. A big reason is that I was part of the project in SL from day 1. I feel a duty to to further the project in whatever ways I can. Being here sometimes is one way. Building the environment for others is another way.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting. I shouldn't assume we are all here for similar reasons. Thanks Storm

    Eden Haiku: Yes, that is enlightening to see such a specific point of view Storm.

    Bruce Mowbray: SL, and PaB in particular,is, for me, a Secret Garden and a Magic Forest.

    Zen Arado: who always knows why they do things though?

    Aphrodite Macbain: I even like the owls calling and the bird songs on the audio!

    Zen Arado: I have so many mixed motives

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes?

    Bruce Mowbray: me too, Aph, but I often can't distinguish the SL sounds from my RL sounds.

    Bruce Mowbray: say more, Zen.

    Aphrodite Macbain: haha me neither. I sit at an open window in front of a tree. But there are not many owls

    Zen Arado: maybe we could do things more from feelings

    Eden Haiku: I still have this utopia that we create a 'secret garden' of some sort here, that we might share with the world. A safe place in ourselves that allows us to create secret gardens in the Real World.

    Zen Arado: not from working out if it is advantageous to us or not

    Storm Nordwind: Do we drive, Zen, or are we driven?

    Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps both?

    Zen Arado: seeing less and need to try to control things I guess

    Zen Arado: less and less *

    Zen Arado: let things happen naturally

    Aphrodite Macbain: If you see a seahorse swimming by it's only my friend Misty - part of the garden

    Zen Arado: can't explain it

    Storm Nordwind: Does that include your inner world, for example your intentions?

    Bruce Mowbray: trusting the wisdom of the forest?

    Aphrodite Macbain: the forest within you

    Zen Arado: reasoning it out seems to stop it Storm

    Eden Haiku: Would love to see Aphrodite's sea horse swimming around...:)

    Aphrodite Macbain: I would like to take action by cultivating that garden, feeding it and protecting it

    Zen Arado: and I was always a very rational person

    Zen Arado: can I share a poem?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh yes please

    Bruce Mowbray: please do, Zen.

    Zen Arado: it's called 'You Don't Have to Act Crazy Anymore'

    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

    Eden Haiku: You are Aphrodite, bringing up the subject of the secret garden this morning, you are feeding it, nurturing it. And mine too ;)


    Beautiful Ancient Warriors sharing poems


    Zen Arado: "You Don't Have to Act Crazy Anymore - 

    We all know you were good at that. 

    Now retire, my dear,

    From all that hard work you do

    Of bringing pain to your sweet eyes and heart.

    Look in a clear mountain mirror

    - See the Beautiful Ancient Warrior

    And the Divine elements

    You always carry inside

    That infused this Universe with sacred Life

    And join you With all Existence "

    Zen Arado: Hafiz


    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh!

    Eden Haiku: Oh! it is SO beautiful. Thanks Zen!

    Bruce Mowbray: Wow. Thanks for sharing that!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Could you send that to me somehow?

    Bruce Mowbray: I wrote a sonnet this weekend -- for the Universal Pantheist website-ning...

    Aphrodite Macbain: I find it very moving

    Bruce Mowbray: do I dare share it here....?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Can you quote it here Bruce?

    Zen Arado: look up Hafiz on Google should get it Aphrodite

    Eden Haiku: Yes you dare Bruce!

    Bruce Mowbray: well, I shall feed it to you a few lines at a time -- Is that all right?

    Aphrodite Macbain: OK but Hafiz wrote alot

    Eden Haiku: Sure!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes that might work best

    Eden Haiku: listens

    Bruce Mowbray: OK...


    Bruce Mowbray: Well, the title of the poem is "The Pantheist"

    Bruce Mowbray: here we go. . . .

    Zen Arado: http://allspirit.co.uk/hafizcrazy.html

    Bruce Mowbray: He is not poor because he covets naught. He reasons inwardly, from hand to heart.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Tx :-)

    Bruce Mowbray: He knows the depth and height of things are taught By moles and mice and sparrows - and a hawk!

    Bruce Mowbray: His days are dwelt in confidence sublime. He walks his way through thickets, ferns, and fate.

    Bruce Mowbray: He breathes each flower's flavor unrefined, Inhaling deep to feed his soul's estate.

    Bruce Mowbray: He stands inside himself - a mighty shield. He's honest as an ox outside its herd.

    Bruce Mowbray: He wakes expectant in a grassy field And beds himself as guiltless as a bird.

    Bruce Mowbray: O'er public gale preferring private breeze, He hoists his sail; Earth answers him with seas.

    Bruce Mowbray: [the end...]

    Eden Haiku: Very moving Bruce, immersive... Thanks!

    Zen Arado: applauds

    Aphrodite Macbain: Wow. Thank you Bruce. Walt Whitman watch out!

    Bruce Mowbray: ha!

    Zen Arado: tk Sartre





    Waking up in (sheer) grassy fields" as Aphrodite is trying on faces (Sartre had  been handing out a "face animator' script) as Selene joins us


    Bruce Mowbray: I've actually changed a few of the words since that edition --- but no matter.

    Zen Arado: reminds me of 'The Vagabond'

    Zen Arado: by RL Stevenson

    Bruce Mowbray: I shall look at that - thanks, Zen.

    Zen Arado: http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/get_t...l?TextId=15304

    Eden Haiku: I like very much "He wakes expectant in a grassy field'

    Aphrodite Macbain: What does this face animator do? What's wrong with my face as it is now??

    Eden Haiku: Was asking myself the same question Aphrodite ;)

    Zen Arado: yes Eden - that's how we should awake :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Someone gave me a face animator!

    Eden Haiku: Sartre wants us to make faces at him ?

    Aphrodite Macbain: well, I'll try it on and see what happens

    Sartre Placebo: only select one animation :)

    Bruce Mowbray bookmarks the RL Stevenson poem.

    Eden Haiku: @Zen. Yes, when we wake up, every day, with all this hope...it's like being in a grassy field...

    Aphrodite Macbain: slowly rezzing

    Zen Arado: and just seeing new appearances :)

    Eden Haiku: Sheer or mere?

    Zen Arado: as if everything were new and fresh - which it is

    Bruce Mowbray: that would be SHEER!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh cool! Hahaha

    Aphrodite Macbain: what a face!

    Aphrodite Macbain: I hope I can take it off!

    Eden Haiku: Waking up in sheer grassy fields...

    Bruce Mowbray: So --- Play as Being is an infinite "play" -- not a finite one.

    Aphrodite Macbain: what a relief that it's infinite. there's no need to rush

    Bruce Mowbray: I'm experiencing PaB to be an infinite "play" inside of which there are many finite "plays."

    Eden Haiku: Looking closely at Aphrodite's new face animation, I make a decision: I will try this in private only ;)) Giggling...

    Zen Arado: how do you use it?

    Bruce Mowbray: (I would have said "infinite game" inside of which there are many "finite games" -- but I do NOT see this as role-playing -- not in the least.

    Sartre Placebo: wear it

    Sartre Placebo: and try to wear only 1 animation at a time :)

    Eden Haiku: Hi Selene! Nice to meet you!

    Sartre Placebo: hey selene

    Bruce Mowbray: Bonjour, Selene!

    Zen Arado: ah didn't see the hud

    Selene Northman: Hi Eden, Hi Sartre, hi everyone :)

    Bruce Mowbray wonders: Does Aph have an infinite face?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Could you give me an example Bruce. That was too abstract for me. Th

    Bruce Mowbray: an example.....?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Of Play within Play

    Selene Northman: May I ask about the topic?

    Bruce Mowbray: well, our discussions are infinite in range -- almost anything goes - including Magic forests and gardens...

    Aphrodite Macbain: and the garden within us

    Eden Haiku: Trying to figure out the topic...

    Bruce Mowbray: but inside each session, there's usually a specific focus... which I would call the "finite" aspect of this infinite "play."

    Bruce Mowbray: sometimes the topic seem,s very "solid" -- like last Friday's discussion of PTSD.

    Bruce Mowbray: and sometimes the topic seems fluid and vaporous.

    Zen Arado: Hi Selene

    Selene Northman: Greetings, Zen

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Selene.

    Eden Haiku: Ah yes, Zen and Bruce just shared poems Selene, and we were talking about a line in Bruce's poem..

    Selene Northman: Hi Aphrodite

    Selene Northman: Oh is it possible to get to read the poem, Bruce?

    Eden Haiku: " He wakes expectant in a grassy field"

    Aphrodite Macbain: Check out the chat history

    Eden Haiku: Yes, you will be able to read it in the log Selene.

    Bruce Mowbray will make a notecard for Selene...

    Selene Northman: ty Bruce :-)




    Bruce "frees his poem to waft in the ethers" and we start talking about upsets, Zen suggesting Pema Chodron's writings to help us face our demons (or not) (I'm almost sure Storm- the- equanimous doesn't have personal demons :)) 



    Eden Haiku: @Bruce, I read the chat log about PTSD, the one that upset you for several hours as you said in another log.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Do you create these poems as you walk the dog Bruce - must be a great time to create poems


    Aphrodite Macbain: What is PTSD?

    Bruce Mowbray: Post Traumatic Sress Disorder.

    Eden Haiku: And I could see what upset you, I could understand yet I realized how our upsets can be located on different places.

    Selene Northman: ty Bruce

    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Eden.

    Bruce Mowbray: yes, indeed so.

    Bruce Mowbray: I guess I don't have much tolerance for intolerance...

    Aphrodite Macbain: What are you going to do with that poem Bruce?

    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry to interrupt

    Bruce Mowbray: Do with it? Free it to waft in the ethers.

    Eden Haiku: I found that very brave of you to acknowledge PaB conversations can upset you for several hours. It does affect me sometimes too and I have a tendency to hide it...

    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh I thought you were going to submit it to a Pantheist group

    Selene Northman:I would suggest to you to read it at one of the open mic poetry events in sl

    Bruce Mowbray: Well actually, Eden, the individual who "upset" me and I have been conversing about the incident all weekend --

    Bruce Mowbray: and we have both done some good growing in the past 48 hours.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Excellent

    Bruce Mowbray: @ Selene -- thanks for that suggestion but I cannot do voice...

    Aphrodite Macbain: You have dealt with it

    Eden Haiku: That is wonderful Bruce!

    Selene Northman: you can give it to the host and he or she will read it for you

    Aphrodite Macbain: Good idea Selene

    Bruce Mowbray: we are continuing to "deal" with the issues raised, because they are large and far-reaching in both of our lives.

    Zen Arado: it's good to investigate why things upset us I think

    Selene Northman: so that everybody could hear or listen to it

    Zen Arado: places where we are stuck

    Bruce Mowbray: absolutely, Zen!

    Zen Arado: if we can only bear opening to them !

    Zen Arado: it can be painful

    Aphrodite Macbain: Takes courage

    Zen Arado: but better in the long run

    Zen Arado: facing our demons

    Zen Arado: Pema Chodron is very good on this subject I think

    Aphrodite Macbain: They reduce in size the harder we look at them

    Bruce Mowbray: Each of us has a different "style" and "reason" in the way we work with the energies of PaB ---

    Zen Arado: exactly

    Aphrodite Macbain: What did Pema say?

    Zen Arado: ah - she says so much :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: about facing demons

    Zen Arado: I have a wonderful audiobokk by her

    Eden Haiku: Ah she meant the other Pema I think...

    Aphrodite Macbain: our demons

    Zen Arado: oh sorry

    Bruce Mowbray: One of the thinks that Pema Chodron says is "OM.... Grow UP!"

    Aphrodite Macbain: the one you quoted

    Bruce Mowbray: things.

    Eden Haiku: No, you are right Zen, sorry :)

    Bruce Mowbray: (The Pema who has the monastery way up in northern Nova Scotia.)

    Zen Arado: the audiobook is called 'Getting Unstuck'

    Zen Arado: she talks about 'Shenpa'

    Bruce Mowbray: http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema-chodron.php

    Zen Arado: which is a kind of hookedness or attachment

    Zen Arado: but there is good teaching in her books

    Zen Arado: like 'When things Fall Apart'

    Zen Arado: np Eden BTW :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, I have read that one. I got seriously ill a few years ago and it really helped me

    Selene Northman: things tend to fall apart due to duality

    Bruce Mowbray: "When Things Fall Apart" is a wonderful book - - full of timely teachings, for me, anyway.

    Zen Arado: yes

    Zen Arado: she is so sensible and down to earth I think

    Bruce Mowbray: yes, sensitive, down to earth, practical, and ferociously honest.

    Zen Arado: yes

    Zen Arado: the practicality is so important when you are having difficulties with relationships and other life problems I think

    Storm Nordwind: It brings a sense of proportion and perspective




    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm afraid I must go now or things in my life will fall apart if I don't attend to them.

    Bruce Mowbray: No "pies in the skies" with Pema!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye

    Zen Arado: yes I have to go too

    Bruce Mowbray: I will be walking with my dog now -- thanks, everyone.

    Zen Arado: bye all :)

    Sartre Placebo: take care

    Sartre Placebo: everyone who's leaving

    Eden Haiku: Bye Zen, Bruce.

    Eden Haiku: Bye Aphrodite,

    Selene Northman: sorry folks but I have to go now, so please take care, bye :)

    Sartre Placebo: bye selene

    Storm Nordwind waves

    Eden Haiku: Take care Selene ;)

    Eden Haiku: Storm, may I ask you something?

    Storm Nordwind: Sure!

    Eden Haiku: About the landscaping, you know the hole at my place?

    Eden Haiku: Bye Sartre!

    Storm Nordwind tries to remember :)

    Eden Haiku: Can I show you now?

    Storm Nordwind: Let's go :)

    Sartre Placebo: i also saw it

    Sartre Placebo: take care you both

    Storm Nordwind: Namaste

    Sartre Placebo: namaste

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