2010.08.08 07:00 - Dawn of Spirituality

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

    A large group eventually formed this morning with three avatars I had never met before. With so many people, the topics changed quickly. The session continued on past the guardian session.

    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Adams....when you return that is :))
    Adams Rubble: Hello Arch :)
    Adams Rubble: Did it show me away?
    Adams Rubble: I must have hit the minimize button
    Archmage Atlantis: How are you this Sunday, assuming it is Sunday where you are :).....Yes it showed you away :)
    Adams Rubble: I am well. How about you?
    Sartre Placebo: hey everyone
    Adams Rubble: we are in the same time zone
    Archmage Atlantis: Good, ty.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sartre :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Sartre
    Adams Rubble: Hello Selene :)
    Adams Rubble: Have you been here before Selene?
    Adams Rubble: Ah, good. Nice to meet you :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Selene :)
    Selene Northman: hello Archmage :)
    Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to discuss?
    Selene Northman: the changing of times
    Adams Rubble: could you say more Selene?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Agatha :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Adams :) Hello everyone
    Sartre Placebo: hi aga
    Archmage Atlantis: Times in what sense? time zones?
    Selene Northman: there is a speicfic date like the 21th of Dec in 2012
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Agatha :)
    Selene Northman: some would say the dawn of spirituality is happening then
    Agatha Macbeth waves to Arch
    Selene Northman: others perceive it as the end of our world
    Adams Rubble: and why that date?
    Selene Northman: one thing is for sure that the 'MAyan calendar has come to an end
    Selene Northman: at that time
    Agatha Macbeth: Doesn't mean the world's going to end tho
    Adams Rubble: Some Mayan Scholars believe the calendar just starts over again
    Selene Northman: so theres a lot of discussions on the internet ... well perhaps we´ll be facing a dark age of change
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Adams Rubble: The Mayans never said the world would end
    Agatha Macbeth: These so-called doomsday dates never amount to anything: it's all nonsense
    Adams Rubble: just the end of a calendat cycle
    Agatha Macbeth: like 1999
    Adams Rubble: and 1000
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Selene Northman: no, but its weird if you are researching the web... even mathematival timelines had come to an end
    Agatha Macbeth: Eh?
    Agatha Macbeth: What are 'mathematival timelines'?
    Archmage Atlantis: If the world ends, it ends.......At the moment I'm alive, and I have no compelling reason to behave other wise. ......
    Agatha Macbeth: Agreed Arch
    Selene Northman: zero timewaves at excactly that date
    Adams Rubble: we can have a spiritual renewal whenever we are ready
    Archmage Atlantis: Even if the world does end then, how does that change things for any of us on a day to day basis.
    Agatha Macbeth nods @ Adams
    Adams Rubble: every 15 minutes (hehe)
    Agatha Macbeth: Why should any date be more significant than any other?
    Selene Northman: we will be having it then... well if you feel that things are going to change you have to prove yourself wether you are ready for a change
    Agatha Macbeth: Sorry, but this IS a total skeptic speaking :p
    Selene Northman: well, we can´t forsee the future -doesn´t it mean it isn´t worth discussing it?
    Selene Northman: ;)
    Agatha Macbeth: Sure let's discuss it, but we sure can't foresee it
    Archmage Atlantis: I see what you are saying, Selene.......still, a total change for an individual can occur at any time during their life.
    Adams Rubble: Better to focus on the present
    Agatha Macbeth: That's true Arch
    Selene Northman: yes, Arch my change has happened on January this year.
    Agatha Macbeth: Is someone's mic on? I hear strange noises
    Adams Rubble: Hello Jiraiya
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello
    Selene Northman: Greetings Jiraiya :)
    Adams Rubble: Have you been here before Jiraiya?
    Jiraiya Teskat: Sure, I have. Pila is a friend of mine
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, aloha :)
    Adams Rubble: Good. Nice to meet you too :)
    Jiraiya Teskat: Nice to meet you as well:)
    Sartre Placebo: hi jiraiya :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Perhaps tho, we could take that date as change date.....and discuss what it might mean to each of us as individuals.......for me, it is not different from loss of a relationship, loss of a job, loss of one's physical abilities, or death.....all can be possibilities
    Jiraiya Teskat: Hey Sarte
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Jiraya
    Agatha Macbeth: Going back to what you said Selene, there is *no* reason to believe the world will end in 2012, so don't worry about it! :)
    Adams Rubble: We have been focusing quite a bit on the question of time
    Selene Northman: well it certainly makes a difference because its a final date
    Selene Northman: ;)
    Adams Rubble: I should say exploring the issue of time
    Adams Rubble: naturally all of our explorations must be in the present
    Adams Rubble: which is where we reside
    Adams Rubble: we can not know the future
    Adams Rubble: only imagine what it might be
    Agatha Macbeth: We would all be quite rich if we could!
    Adams Rubble: hehe Agatha
    Selene Northman: well but we can prepare ourselves a little and be aware of things to come :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Umm, not sure how to prepare for the "end of days", other than to live the most moral life I can.....and that I would want to do anyway.
    Agatha Macbeth: Is eschatology today's topic then?
    Selene Northman: well besides from moral values and certain virtues ...I was thinking that I might need a vessel... like a big boat or ship
    Adams Rubble: Better to look to what we are than the calendar of a lost civilization
    Archmage Atlantis: An Ark :)
    Selene Northman: yes, Arch
    Selene Northman: :)
    Agatha Macbeth looks for Noah
    Selene Northman: well you got to get to the Himalaya and set up an arc....
    Archmage Atlantis: There is that......that implies the possibilty of survival
    Archmage Atlantis: So, not "the end of days", just a date of massive worldwide change......like a meteor striking the earth
    Archmage Atlantis: Or some other planetary disaster
    Selene Northman: its the dawning of a new age
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, now that *would* be something to worry about Arch
    Jiraiya Teskat: We can imagine something totally different
    Jiraiya Teskat: Our universe seems to be stable, because physical laws seem to be stable
    Agatha Macbeth: 'seem to be' ;-)
    Jiraiya Teskat: What if one or a few physical laws would suddenly change?
    Jiraiya Teskat: for undetermined reasons
    Agatha Macbeth: Which ones did you have in mind?
    Archmage Atlantis: Smile.......it is already a "new age".......we have learned how to read our own DNA, and are learning how to manipulate it......able to choose what we shall become
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Jiraiya Teskat: maybe mothing would deasapear, but we would have to relearn and adapt ourselves to a new way of living
    Jiraiya Teskat: oops
    Agatha Macbeth: Civilisations rise and fall - this is a proven fact
    Agatha Macbeth: Why should ours be any different?
    Selene Northman: well do you wish to see this civilization fall?do you have an alternative?
    Archmage Atlantis: The most likely is a reversal of the magnetic poles, as there is some evidence of that having happened fairly frequently in the past.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes Arch, true
    Jiraiya Teskat: Well, everything is changing at anytime, thats what the I Ching is teaching us
    Agatha Macbeth: I'd agree with that
    Selene Northman: yes.... if its a dynamical change its good...
    Archmage Atlantis: Civilizations in the past have all risen and fallen, but perhaps this one will just continue to change and grow......the past does not always predict the future
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Adoro
    Jiraiya Teskat: It would be interesting to ask a physicist about changes induced if some physical laws would change, even just a little
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, adoro
    adoro Rhapsody: hi all
    Adams Rubble: Hello adoro and Bruce :)
    Agatha Macbeth: It would certainly be interesting
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Bruce
    Selene Northman: hi Bruce and Adoro :)
    Agatha Macbeth: And hello Bliss
    Adams Rubble: Hello Blissful and Bolonath :)
    Selene Northman: hello bliss and Bolonath :)
    Adams Rubble: Blissfful, have you been here before?
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste :)
    Selene Northman: namaste :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Bolo, long time no see :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Namaste and good day to everyobne!
    Bruce Mowbray: everyone.
    Archmage Atlantis: Greetings, Bolonath
    Blissful Badger: Hi Agatha
    Blissful Badger: Good morning everyone
    Archmage Atlantis: and also Blissful
    Agatha Macbeth: Good afternoon :p
    Adams Rubble: A nice big crowd ehre this morning :)
    Agatha Macbeth: That's a very pretty dress adams
    Adams Rubble: here
    Adams Rubble: I made it Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Very floral
    Agatha Macbeth: You did?
    Agatha Macbeth: Wow
    Adams Rubble: not the lace jacket though
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it is Agatha....very tres chic :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, I like that too
    Adams Rubble: we have been inching toward looking at the world as appearance
    Blissful Badger: ?
    Adams Rubble: thinking about the physical laws that givern what we think we see
    Adams Rubble: govern
    Archmage Atlantis: I can't even walk in a straight line....making a dress is way past my skills :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Adams Rubble: hehe Arch. Just takes practice
    Agatha Macbeth: I'm sure you could try arch ;-)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Corvi. What a long time since I have seen you
    Blissful Badger: give me an example of what you're talking about
    Archmage Atlantis: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Corvus.
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello,
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste corvus
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello, Adams...I've missed you. Hi, Bruce, hi all.
    Archmage Atlantis: Corvus
    Sartre Placebo: hi corvus
    adoro Rhapsody: namaste corvus
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Corvi :)
    Selene Northman: Greetings, Corvus :)
    Blissful Badger: Hello corvus, how's the flying today?
    Agatha Macbeth: Bliss, you have a fish on your back?
    Adams Rubble: Jiraiya was talking what would happen if the laws of physics sudden;y changes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: wonderful
    Blissful Badger: probably I went swimming this morning
    Agatha Macbeth: :DDDDDDDDD
    Jiraiya Teskat: Reality we believe in would change as well
    Blissful Badger: which laws? gravity?
    Bruce Mowbray: As I "understand" (sort of) Pema's assignment for the Time group, there are no "physical laws" -- There is only "sheer appeas."
    Jiraiya Teskat: why not
    Bruce Mowbray: appearance in each moment.
    Archmage Atlantis: And Selene asked for an example, but I couldn't connect it to which comment
    Blissful Badger: for example? But what would change?
    adoro Rhapsody: the laws of physical appearance ?
    Jiraiya Teskat: What would change is not easy to figure out
    adoro Rhapsody: what do u mean by that ?
    Jiraiya Teskat: but if the faintest little physical law would change, reality we all know would trun into something very ifferent
    Adams Rubble: is appearance based on laws
    adoro Rhapsody: what we see is not what it seems to be ?
    Agatha Macbeth nods @ Jiraiya
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Blissful Badger: would our appearance change if there ceased to be gravity?
    Adams Rubble: not our appearance but what we see
    adoro Rhapsody: look at astronauts
    Blissful Badger: we see things upside down occasionally
    adoro Rhapsody: but that can when we turn our screen
    Agatha Macbeth: Actually bliss we see everything upside down...our brains turn it the right way up :)
    adoro Rhapsody: so or brains make what we see
    Adams Rubble: :) Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes Adoro
    adoro Rhapsody: i see
    Blissful Badger: Love the sound of the cat on your shoulders Archmage
    Blissful Badger: oe is it Koya?
    Archmage Atlantis: ty Selene.....
    Archmage Atlantis: Her nickname is Koya, she is a white tiger cub
    Blissful Badger: looks cuddly
    Bruce Mowbray: "World out of balance" = Koyanisquatsi (Hopi word).
    Agatha Macbeth: I love that film
    Bolonath Crystal: me 2
    Bruce Mowbray: Where is the balance between chaos and rigidity?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, that is he given first name
    Bruce Mowbray: That's where to look for "natural laws."
    Bolonath Crystal: someonen did that. as far as i remember life only exists far from balance
    Archmage Atlantis: Good question, imo, Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: I think that Taoism is based on the pursuit of balance.
    Selene Northman: cause life is merely survived?
    Archmage Atlantis: I have heard it said that balance exists only in the present moment
    Blissful Badger: But doesn't balance eventially lead to stasis?
    Adams Rubble: Life can be about appreciation
    Bolonath Crystal: life is the ability to keep nature out of balance, thermodynamically spoken
    Blissful Badger: I feel we should constantly be moving in and out of balance
    adoro Rhapsody: wow
    Bruce Mowbray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi
    Blissful Badger: yes Bolonath
    adoro Rhapsody: when in balance u need change
    adoro Rhapsody: u wanna new balance
    Blissful Badger: and change is usually beter than stuckness
    adoro Rhapsody: its life
    Blissful Badger: they're my running shoes
    Selene Northman: balance doesn´t equal to stuckness
    adoro Rhapsody: i go for change
    Bruce Mowbray: no change = rigidity . . . . too much change - chaos.
    Blissful Badger: new balance
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll have to give the Guardian session a miss today I'm afraid
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care everyone :)
    Jiraiya Teskat: Take care Agatha^^
    Bolonath Crystal: om shanti, agatha
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, aggers.
    Adams Rubble: bye Agatha :)
    Blissful Badger: Ciao agatha
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. I'm glad I could come visit for just a moment with ya'll but I must go too.
    Bolonath Crystal: bye everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Corvus, Bolo.
    Adams Rubble: It is time for some of to go. Please feel free to stay and continue the discussion
    Adams Rubble: bye Corvi
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Adams.
    Jiraiya Teskat: Bye Adams
    Blissful Badger: I like sitting here and listening to Koya especially when I have 2 other cats sitting next to my PC
    Sartre Placebo: there is no guardian session today ?
    Archmage Atlantis: I need to leave also, thank you all for your time together, Blessings and Namaste.
    Bruce Mowbray: There's a mini=demonstration of finding new balance....
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Arch and Koya.
    Blissful Badger: Oh by archmage, bye Koya
    Jiraiya Teskat: Bye Arch and Koya
    Bruce Mowbray: "Counter-factuals" are interesting to play with. . .
    Blissful Badger: Sartre - are you mad and not a hatter? or are you a hatter but not mad or are you really both?
    Bruce Mowbray: "Waht if Hurrican Katrina had hit Miami instead of New Orleans. . . . ?"
    Bruce Mowbray: for example.
    Sartre Placebo: i am mad :)
    Blissful Badger: hahaha
    Blissful Badger: to both of you
    Bruce Mowbray: Mad -- as in insane?
    Selene Northman: yes Satre, we know ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: but what a fine hat you have!
    Blissful Badger: Bruce, could uyou expand on that about Miami
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, I'm just making a point about counter-factuals.
    Blissful Badger: what is a counter-factual.Conflicting information?
    Bruce Mowbray: What if Lee Harvey Osward had been sick on the morning of November 22, 1963 -- and couldn't make it to downtown Dallas?
    Bruce Mowbray: Oswald.
    Blissful Badger: oh. the "what ifs?" of the world.
    Bruce Mowbray: We can "tweak" our realities through counter-factuals.
    Blissful Badger: determine whether something is inevitable or not?
    Bruce Mowbray: tweak our realities toward the "chaos" end or toward the "rigidity" end...
    Bruce Mowbray: testing our balance. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: and having fun with it.
    Blissful Badger: the chaos end would look like what?
    Bruce Mowbray: Maybe it would look like the world looks to a child who is spinning around. . .
    Blissful Badger: :-) no conclusions can be made?
    Bruce Mowbray: maybe iot would look like a world without gravity.
    Blissful Badger: everything is possible?
    Bruce Mowbray: The whole point of counter-factuals is to avoid making conclusions.
    Jiraiya Teskat: A reality without landmark I would say
    Blissful Badger: chaos could also be a world with multiple possibilities
    Bruce Mowbray: yes!
    Blissful Badger: the opposit would be one inevitable conclusion?
    Bruce Mowbray: Fundamentalists of all varieties have an extrremely low tolerance for chaos.
    Blissful Badger: or for alternate answers
    Bruce Mowbray: When we Play as Being (here), it seems to me that we are playing with the possibilities -- an infinite game, as it were.
    Blissful Badger: perhaps they are the most insecure
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, indeed. . . but what if we could get them to play with the possibilities?
    Blissful Badger: how could we get them to do that?
    Bruce Mowbray: Second Life itself is a place where we do that all the time.
    Blissful Badger: give them a safe place to discuss them
    Bruce Mowbray: I have friend who will not go near SL because they are afraid of it --- "Spooky" they say.
    Blissful Badger: Perhaps SL would do that but it would take time. Attitudes based on value systems are hard to change
    Bruce Mowbray: friends.
    Blissful Badger: fear of the unknown
    Bruce Mowbray: I have an attitude based on the value of "diversity" over sameness.
    Blissful Badger: none of my friends in RL are interested in SL. They are worried about me!
    Jiraiya Teskat: About the same for me...
    Blissful Badger: Sartre - you have had that experience haven';t you?
    Sartre Placebo: yes
    Blissful Badger: Hell Lucinda Good to see you!
    Sartre Placebo: sometimes i am even glad that nobody is interested in it
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, Jira and Liss -- my friends are also worried about me -- especially when I tell them how much more alive I feel in SL than in RL.
    Sartre Placebo: that preserves the communication easier for me sometimes
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Luci!
    Sartre Placebo: everything feels more distant
    Blissful Badger: Sartre-why are you glad?
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi...Bruce...all
    Blissful Badger: SDartre?
    Sartre Placebo: hi luci
    Selene Northman: Sartre tell it like it is ;)
    Sartre Placebo: yes, because everything is simply securer
    Blissful Badger: securer?
    Sartre Placebo: i mean i am open with where i am living
    Blissful Badger: oh of course
    Sartre Placebo: that yakuzza is my main account and these things
    Sartre Placebo: still, not to have somebody from RL around here provides a distance
    Sartre Placebo: still it decreased after meeting some ppl from sl on malta
    Sartre Placebo: for example this group got more meaning since then
    Selene Northman: well ,I tried to convince some friends but none of them is really interested
    Sartre Placebo: so i start thinking to much about how ppl percieve me
    Blissful Badger: I wonder if you can say to friends things that you would not say in RL
    Sartre Placebo: tricky, since it´s only of the better groupls around here
    Bruce Mowbray: good point, Sartre.... This wek I was wondering whether I'd want to go to Nova Scotia for the retreat. . . and maybe prefer to keep those folks in SL rather thanknow them in RL.
    Blissful Badger: yes. we impose our own needs and expectations on people in SL and RL
    Bruce Mowbray: actually -- rather than have THEM know ME in RL! ;-)
    Blissful Badger: things would get confusing (uh oh there's chaos again)
    Blissful Badger: nice to know that RL is your default position!
    Bruce Mowbray: How many times a year do the PaB folk gather in RL?
    Sartre Placebo: 4 times
    Blissful Badger: I sometimes daydream what it would be like
    Bruce Mowbray: Wow.
    Sartre Placebo: 2 europe 2 states
    Bruce Mowbray: that is amazing.
    Blissful Badger: Nova Scotia is in Canada
    Bruce Mowbray: yep Last time I checked.
    Blissful Badger: not states :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: It's a really cool province. I love Hal;ifax.
    Bruce Mowbray: Sartre mean Western Hemisphere.
    Bruce Mowbray: meant.
    Sartre Placebo: is flying in kanada really so much more expensive then in the states
    Sartre Placebo: *just a random question on my mind*
    Blissful Badger: Oh, We canadians get a bit defensive... sorry. Pierre Trudea said we were the mouse sleeping next to an elephant
    Bruce Mowbray: Maybe Bliss could answer that, Sartre -- she lives in Canada.
    Blissful Badger: I don't think so. There are a number of airlines with diferent proces. Westjet is the best
    Blissful Badger: prices
    Bruce Mowbray: I would really prefer to be the mouse... but am somehow fated to be the elephant.
    Blissful Badger: Just that when the elephant rolls over.....
    Bruce Mowbray: mmmm. . . that elephant should be led out to pasture.
    Blissful Badger: hehe. Sartre are you planning to visit Canada?
    Bruce Mowbray: (Bruce works on a counter-factual for that.)
    Bruce Mowbray: What happened to Lucinda?
    Blissful Badger: oh I guess she left again
    Blissful Badger: Jiraiya are you a white tiger?
    Jiraiya Teskat: I am
    Bruce Mowbray: I hope it's not breaching confidence to say this, but Luci and Pamala Clift will be getting together today in Seattle.
    Blissful Badger: I hear they're very rare
    Bruce Mowbray: a beautiful white tiger.
    Jiraiya Teskat blushes
    Blissful Badger: with braceletts
    Bruce Mowbray: with LOTS of bracelets!
    Jiraiya Teskat: hehe
    Blissful Badger: is itr warm inside your coat?
    Jiraiya Teskat: sure
    Blissful Badger: Well I think it's time to go and have breakfast. My tummy is rumbling and the cats are meowingg
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey Blissful, what's with the salmon?
    Bruce Mowbray: OK -- bye, Bliss.
    Blissful Badger: I went swimming this morning
    Blissful Badger: It decided to join me
    Jiraiya Teskat: Ill leave you too folks
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh -- I rememeber you said that earlier. Have a good day!
    Jiraiya Teskat: See you son all, take care^^
    Bruce Mowbray: I guess I'd better leave too -- got to get ready for the Quaker Meeting in RL.
    Blissful Badger: Bye all.
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, everyone!
    Sartre Placebo: bye eeryone
    Selene Northman: sorry folks I got to run ,tc :)
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Selene! bye, Sartre.
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Bruce!

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