2010.08.13 06:00 - Reality Check

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Dubrovna. The comments are by Adams Dubrovna.

    The usual full group gathered for the Friday morning time session including a number of newcomers. We spent a good time discussing how we look at reality

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Good morning Pema :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Sharon!
    Pema Pera: Still hot at the East Coast, or are you getting some relief?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its much better today :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: although lost power for 4 hours last night
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya, Eden, Pema, Sharon :)
    Eliza Madrigal rubs her eyes
    Pema Pera: hi Eliza and Eden!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza, Eden and Yakuzza :)
    Pema Pera: and hi Yaku!
    Eden Haiku: Hello Yaku, Pema, SophiaSharon and Eliza :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi uns
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Uns
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Uns, welcome :)
    Uns Mistwalker: hi
    Uns Mistwalker: rezzing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bleu,sharry
    Eliza Madrigal: That's fine... let me give you a note about the group...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi bleu
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Sharry
    Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :), Sharry too :)
    Uns Mistwalker: thank you.
    Pema Pera: hi Bleu, Sharry, Uns!
    Sharry Ragu: hi
    Eden Haiku: Hi Bleu, Uns ad Sharry :)
    Sharry Ragu: hi Eden :))
    Pema Pera: Hi Darren
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Darren
    Darren Islar: hi everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Darren :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Darren
    Sharry Ragu waves hello
    Pema Pera: hi Adams!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Adams
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adams :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Adams
    Darren Islar: hi Adams
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello everyone :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi adams,darren
    Pema Pera: Would anybody like to volunteer to post the chat log for today? Adams and Darren did so the last two times.
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Adams :) hello Darren :)
    Adams Dubrovna: I can post it if you like
    Pema Pera: looking spiff, Adams, dressed for the occasion!
    Pema Pera: thank you, Adams!
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Baeric!
    Baeric Constantine: Hello all :)
    Darren Islar: hi Baeric
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Baeric, welcome :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Baeric

    Pema Pera: Thank you all for joining us, and a special thanks for all those who contributed to the reports this week!
    Pema Pera: I was really touched by all the moving and very personal accounts
    Pema Pera: the notion of being on the way, together and individually, and Adams connecting sense of love
    Pema Pera: see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2010%2F%2F08%2F%2F13:_Reports
    Pema Pera: and for those new here, see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time for more background
    Pema Pera: today we're still working with chapter 2, http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/2._Arising and later today I'll post a new chapter
    Pema Pera: would anybody like to comment on the text that we read and/or the reports posted?
    Eliza Madrigal: (just a note that newcomers have had intros, etc - all is well :)
    Pema Pera: (thank you!)
    Eden Haiku: Reading the most recent reports :)
    Pema Pera: hi Bruce!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
    Darren Islar: hi Bruce :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal just caught up on reports... smiling at Darren's "I still didn't fall asleep"
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, everyone, Very sorry to be so late.
    Pema Pera: btw, I think Maxine is still on a bicycle tour in Nova Scotia, following the PaB retreat we had there
    Pema Pera: we're just starting, Bruce :)
    Darren Islar: it wasn't like it was in the movies :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, so nice to see everybody being so realistic!
    Darren Islar: it is in the movies
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Bruce :)
    Pema Pera: all of us aware of many imperfections
    Eliza Madrigal nods

    Bleu asks about the benefits of looking at life as "not real" to start things off

    Bleu Oleander: In your report Pema you say, your life may not be real ultimately, not any more real than a movie character .... how is that a beneficial view to have?
    Baeric Constantine: How would that view be degenerative, Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: doesn't the view that the world is real help us live in the world?
    Pema Pera: I'm always aware of the danger of using a metaphor like that, Bleu :-).
    Darren Islar is dropping his stone in the water, hears a little splash, some water is plunging in the air, followed by some wrinkels in the water, after the stone seems to be gone
    Eden Haiku: I like Adam's nice summary: Love!
    Pema Pera: but what I tried to point out is that we tend to make everything too heavy, too solid
    Pema Pera: taking everything more lightly may free us to experiment more
    Baeric Constantine: In Plato's Socratic dialogue, Meno proffers the paradox (my favourite paradox), "And how will you inquire into a thing when you are wholly ignorant of what it is? Even if you happen to bump right into it, how will you know it is the thing you didn't know?" Thus, if we are to use our life as a laboratory, how then can we carry experiments on something not yet occurred, as we do not recognise it?
    Pema Pera: how do you think that "reality" of the world helps us to live in the world, Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: being open to many possibilites?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Eden Haiku: Though it might be useful to have things crystallize in some solidity too I think Pema.
    Pema Pera: we just have to start somewhere, Baeric :)
    Uns Mistwalker: each breath, decreases by one, the number left to me.
    Bleu Oleander: the world to me is a series of relationships
    Pema Pera: sure, Eden, it's always a matter of balance
    Baeric Constantine: Series of relationships? can you not have some in parallel then?>
    Pema Pera: but is "reality" not just a judgement? does it change the relationships?
    Bleu Oleander: what does it mean to have parallel relationships?
    Darren Islar: you need to start somewhere Pema :)
    Darren Islar: and 'reality' can be one
    Pema Pera: sure, as long as you don't get stuck the idea
    Darren Islar: testing its solidity for example
    Darren Islar: sure
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, seeing the assumptions we continually make without realizing we're doing so...
    Bleu Oleander: I think we make predictions about the world and we try to confirm or negate them by using our senese
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fef :))
    Bleu Oleander: senses*
    Darren Islar: hi Fonz :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Fefonz
    Pema Pera: hi Fefonz!

    Uns Mistwalker: and seeing them, Eliza, removes you from the present into reflection on the past, doesn't it?
    Bleu Oleander: hi Fefonz
    Pema Pera: hi Bob!

    Baeric Constantine: All experimentation is based on one assumption or another before a factual basis can be established
    Eliza Madrigal: well that's a funny thing Uns... yes 'past' but not past as in 'back there' necessarily like some drag on the present...
    Darren Islar: hi Bob
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bob :)
    Baeric Constantine: Hello Bob
    Uns Mistwalker: Yes Eliza...it is a matter of how tightly the consciousness clings to the observation of an assumption.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll give you a note about the group Bob, one moment ...
    Pema Pera: sure, Baeric, theory and experiment are mutually dependent
    Fefonz Quan: Hi all! :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i did Eliza
    Sharry Ragu waves hello to bob and Fefonz
    Baeric Constantine: Hello FeFonz.

    Bruce Mowbray: Is it the consciousness that clings - or the rational mind?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay Sharon thx :) (sorry to bombard Bob then, hah)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (suspects we both are yes sorry)
    Darren Islar: or is the rational mind part of our consciousness?
    Bruce Mowbray: If we "drop" reasoning and just let the experience arise, without needing to explain it rationally... perhaps we will discover something fresh.
    Fefonz Quan: I woul say consiousness is prior to rational mind
    Uns Mistwalker: to me, rational thought is simply one means of directing consciousness.
    Bruce Mowbray: agree that consciousness is prior.
    Darren Islar: agree with Uns
    Darren Islar: but the word isn't that important I guess
    Baeric Constantine: cannot conciousness direct rational thought, then, Uns?
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I think we worry that if we see more of the presumptions we're making, bringing things up to the open, that we won't enjoy life as much... it seems the opposite to me... yes, the freshness Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: If by "reason" we mean our attempts to "control" through structuring - in order to have things make "sense," then we will not have a freash sheer appearance.
    Bruce Mowbray: fresh.
    Darren Islar: maybe, but 'fpcus
    Darren Islar: focus can help
    Bleu Oleander: appearance is reality to me
    Bruce Mowbray: attention, yes.
    Bruce Mowbray: Not sure whether what you mean by focus and what I mean by attention are the same, though.
    Pema Pera: in that case I'm happy with the word "real", Bleu :-)
    Darren Islar: it is both doing something and not doing another thing
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Eden Haiku: brb (phone)
    Darren Islar: to me it is not only dropping the pre-assumptions
    Darren Islar: well, I guess focus is maybe more concentrated, but you need a form of concentration to be attentive
    Darren Islar: (or to have attention, I should say) Words!
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps there's a language problem here -- but what I bring to the experiment is not concentration. I bring "intention," "attention," and "attitude [receptivity]"
    Darren Islar: can't do without concentration
    Bruce Mowbray: the intentionaltiy is probably my "concentration
    Baeric Constantine: intension or intention, Bob?
    Baeric Constantine: Bruce, rather
    Baeric Constantine: sorry
    Eliza Madrigal: the pre-assumptions for me just mean that when/if I allow myself to see how much I normally don't see, it kind of creates a shakiness in my general idea that I am seeing all there is to see, as I go along...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: true, need some concentratioon, seems to flow well when loosely held though too.
    Bruce Mowbray: the intention to be present and do the work.
    Darren Islar: true
    Uns Mistwalker: Eliza, do you think it possible to see all there is to see as you go along?
    Pema Pera: yes, it can lead to a re-evaluation of what we think is real, ELiza
    Darren Islar: a light focus :)
    Bruce Mowbray: but a very different thing, say, drom "concentrating" (focusing) on the tip of a candle.
    Bruce Mowbray: from.
    Adams Dubrovna: A real-evaluation of what is real allows us to see our priorities
    Bleu Oleander: re-evaluation ... a good thing
    Eliza Madrigal: well I'm not too worried about that Uns... about seeing 'all' as though I could just by force of wanting to...
    Adams Dubrovna: see=examine
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Adams
    Darren Islar: to me it is more that you need to put something in it to get result, whether it is focus, concentration or intention
    Pema Pera: yes, Adams, seeing priorities is a very practical application of all our considerations here
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi RawVegan :))
    Pema Pera: hi Raw!
    Darren Islar: hi Raw
    RawVegan Serenity: hello everybody
    Sharry Ragu: :))
    Pema Pera: how about just relaxing, Darren?
    Pema Pera: does that not bring its own sense of attention?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Darren Islar: relaxing to me is taking me anywhere, without the awareness
    Darren Islar: to me it is a combination
    Pema Pera: a cat can be totally relaxed, yet jump up at the sound of a bird
    Darren Islar: of relaxing, letting go, focussing, motivation, a whole mix of things
    Baeric Constantine: relaxed does not mean unprepared.
    Baeric Constantine: or rather a lack of ability to act
    Fefonz Quan nods to Baeric
    Fefonz Quan thinks of Tai-Chi
    Darren Islar: what I try to say is that both aspects are needed
    Baeric Constantine: sorry - does not neccessarily mean...
    Darren Islar: so maybe you can call it prepared relaxation, that is okay with me
    Eden Haiku: would love to be realxed as a cat and prompt as a cat too...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Sharry Ragu: relaxing does not equate to dropping my awareness to me, I absorb the beauty of my garden, watch nature, appreciate the moment
    Eden Haiku: *relaxed
    Pema Pera: yes, Darren, I think we are using all these terms in slightly different ways
    Baeric Constantine: not really prepared relaxation, Darren
    Pema Pera: nice image, Sharry!
    Uns Mistwalker: i love that typo Eden...i went to real-axed.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, perhaps notice the 'same' things in another way Sharry...?
    Fefonz Quan: me too Uns :-)
    Darren Islar: :) Uns
    Sharry Ragu nods..
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Eden Haiku: Ah yes Uns, real-axed...Grinning, showing her teeth :)))
    Baeric Constantine: I concur, if one stops being aware, then it would suggest something more than relaxed, surely?
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Pema Pera: like axed, Baeric?
    Darren Islar: have you ever watched the ears of a cat that is relaxing :)
    Baeric Constantine: to much like chopped to me, Pema
    Baeric Constantine: :)
    Fefonz Quan: (yes, cat and paste...)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Sharry Ragu: I like that earlier question Elizer, thought provoking and an exercise to practice :))
    Bruce Mowbray wonders whether dogs "focus" but cats "relax."
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Sharry Ragu: hehe... my BoofMan relaxes ;)
    Darren Islar: I should focus associate more with cats
    Eden Haiku: Dogs 'focus'? Really?
    Darren Islar: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: [judging by what their ears do.]
    Baeric Constantine: not being a dog or a cat.... I cannot say, I do know that CATastrophes happen, and I get dog tired....
    Bleu Oleander: dogs focus, Eden .... on food :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Darren Islar: :)
    Uns Mistwalker: and time?
    Eden Haiku: Ah, they do Blue, that,s true :))
    Fefonz Quan feels that we emphasize too much the amount of focusing, and maybe missing the point\
    Bruce Mowbray: My problem with the word "focus" is that it seems to have hard edges.
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Darren Islar: yes Fonz
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Bruce
    Darren Islar: again for me it wasn't about the word
    Bleu Oleander: attention perhaps is a better word
    Fefonz Quan: for me, attention/awareness is like a flashlight - i can laser-focus it on one thing
    Pema Pera: how about appreciation?
    Fefonz Quan: or i can expand its lobe wide to cover all that is around me
    Eliza Madrigal: appreciating the edges...
    Darren Islar is tasting appreciation
    Uns Mistwalker: but there is also a soft-focus...not sharp, that is, not assigning weight to various perceptions...just letting it flow.
    Fefonz Quan: indeed, i feel that the omni-mode works better for appereciation,
    Darren Islar: right Uns
    Sharry Ragu: leaves on a stream...
    Fefonz Quan: and the laser mode requires more effort - hence some more tension
    Pema Pera: /nods at Uns
    Uns Mistwalker: and this soft-focus perhaps is more conducive to play.
    Fefonz Quan agrees with Uns too
    Uns Mistwalker: to links not previously made
    Baeric Constantine thinks Uns has a mania type disposition towards play :D
    Darren Islar: I think we actually talk about different way of focussing/concentrating and there seems to be a whole area there
    Fefonz Quan: and the play between the modees can be also revealing
    Uns Mistwalker: agreed Darren
    Uns Mistwalker: and Fefonz!
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, interesting
    Sharry Ragu: focus and concentration feels like work to me
    Fefonz Quan: focus - in order to first clean some colateral noise, and then open up - to absorb all there is with a clear mind/awareness
    Eliza Madrigal: but work you enjoy is play...
    Darren Islar: well, to a certain extend, that is my point Sharry
    Fefonz Quan: (not sure colateral is the right word here)
    Darren Islar: the work can be light, but it is not all about dropping or taking away our pre-assumptions
    Darren Islar: right Eliza
    Darren Islar: and right Fonz
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, not taking away surely Darren... just seeing them... factoring them in?
    Darren Islar: yes and it needs work to do so
    Fefonz Quan: factoring, or just be aware of them, no calculations involved
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Darren Islar: and the more you do it, the easier it gets, the more playful it can be
    Uns Mistwalker: only with mastery does the work become effortless
    Darren Islar: yes
    Sharry Ragu: :))
    Darren Islar: at least, I think so :)
    Uns Mistwalker: Yeah, i'm taking other's word for it too.
    Darren Islar: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, like some of the reports had to do with relationships and people in our lives... What if in every encounter we *knew* that there were obscurations we were imposing...
    Bruce Mowbray muses: Only with play does mastery become effortless.
    Bleu Oleander: have to go .... thank you all .... thanks Pema, look forward to the next chapter :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :)
    Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Blue :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Bleu*
    Adams Dubrovna: bte Bleu
    Sharry Ragu: ã‹¡
    Sharry Ragu: take care Blue
    Baeric Constantine: bye
    Baeric Constantine: bye Bleu - go well :)
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Bleu.
    Darren Islar: bye bleu
    Fefonz Quan: bye Blue

    Sharry Ragu: how about the mind blow when you become aware of the obscurities you apply!! :))
    Darren Islar: I think you are right Bruce, there needs to be play involved
    Uns Mistwalker: yes, Sharry, leads to a whole lot of keeping one's mouth shut.
    Sharry Ragu: ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Darren Islar: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: quietly slips away also ^^
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now All :))
    Uns Mistwalker: gye Sophia
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye ssl
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Sharon
    Baeric Constantine: bye
    Baeric Constantine: Bye Sophia
    Sharry Ragu: tc!
    Eden Haiku: I also have to go to return a phone call. Bye everyone :))
    Darren Islar: quitly ssays goodbye
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone who´s leaving
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Eden and Darren
    Pema Pera: bye Darren and Sharon!
    Fefonz Quan: bye Eden, Darren
    Pema Pera: and everyone leaving :)
    Darren Islar: no I was saying goodbye to others :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye those whose names end with 'n'
    Baeric Constantine: bye
    Baeric Constantine is aware of people leaving, so focuses, and gives them attention to say bye to those leaving
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sorry DarreN
    Fefonz Quan: wb Darren :)
    Sharry Ragu: lol
    Darren Islar: :)

    Bruce Mowbray: May I suggest a real-world application here?
    Sharry Ragu: please do
    Bruce Mowbray: [bell's going to ring in a moment....]
    Bruce Mowbray: I'll try to squeeze it in before the bell....
    Eliza Madrigal: In SL we can see when someone makes a change... they may show up as a cat or diff gender... we dont see that in RL but I think it happens...
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sorry Bruce. Listening :)


    Click to the next session for the exciting conclusion of this morrning's twin session and hear more about Bruce's real-world application (or how the real World Turns) but first a word from our sponsor (hehe)

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