2010.08.15 19:00 - You don't ever let go of the Thread

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi calvino ... I'm goin to wait for you to sit down
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, the time of difficulty in the beginning as the avatars get slowly get settled.
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Mitzi :)
    Calvino Rabeni: .
    Calvino Rabeni: That's some bad lag we have going here.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I was multitasking ... myt neighbor came over to give me some homegrown tomatoes ... yum!
    Calvino Rabeni: How are you tonight?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Just wonderful! Had a very enlightening journey ... will tell you more later.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: And yourself?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm well too. Lots of creative activities and relationships. The weather was really hot today, about 96F indoors. Somehow it wasn't too bad :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Glad you have creativity going on ...
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya Cal .. Mitzi ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Paradise, good to see you.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi Paradise ...
    Paradise Tennant: smiles .. always like it when you two are together ... there will be sparks :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni zooms in for a look at Para's dress.
    Paradise Tennant: this is lunata's ..
    Calvino Rabeni: ... being *such* a fan :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh my! Is that true ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, this one reminds me a little of Dr. Seuss, but with class.
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: You know how those birds always have tails that go on and on, and feet always seem to have floppy tips.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: And I have to admit it's uncharacterstic of me - I usually like minimalism and simplicity in design

    Paradise Tennant: hmm I like colour in rl too .. but here there are no limitations you can wear a rainbow .. a stormcloud .. be a mermaid ..It is just plain fun .. :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: whose birthday?
    Paradise Tennant: sorry were you asking me ?
    Paradise Tennant: was a birthday party this afternoon am I still wearing the flag ..nice party for bavid lunata's co designer and scripter
    Calvino Rabeni: It has a nice papery quality (that flag in your dress)
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, does anyone have a question to entertain? :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles and listens
    Calvino Rabeni: I have a couple of old standbys
    Calvino Rabeni: One of them is - "What's New"?
    Calvino Rabeni: in the sense of - something not seen before, maybe
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: What's the purpose of the brain?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Or, should I say "the mind" ...?
    Calvino Rabeni: like if some plant grew up out of the ground in the back yard, and I didn't know what it was ?)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Do you ever feel like your mental field is like version 1.0 of an ambitious new software ... that's really really buggy?
    Bleu Oleander: hi Paradise, Mitzi and Calvino :)
    Paradise Tennant: hmm hiya bleu gtsy :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, could be. Well, it would be tempting to fall into that metaphor - given my previous profession :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Bonjour Blue
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Bleu :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Bonjour Bleu ... I meant to say ...
    Paradise Tennant: we are discussing the purpose of the mind :)
    Bleu Oleander: hmm, the mind discussing it's purpose

    And, Mind, or "the" mind, now comes up with three nicely divergent views on that question:

    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe, well one perspective is - that we're self-debugging AI machines :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not sure I like that one very much however
    Paradise Tennant: always thinks .. that it is "It" whatever
    Paradise Tennant: It is ..wanting to be seen .. in an endless pattern of creation ..
    Paradise Tennant: that without .. awareness .. all this would be unappreciated
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I guess "survival" is the quick easy answer ... but it feels to me like I do whatever I do, and my mind is running around making up stories to explain what just happened ... with unbelievable quickness ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: kind of after the the fact commentator under the delusion it is the boss of the situation
    Calvino Rabeni: Is it possible to combine those two questions - "What is the purpose of the Brain / Mind" along with "What's New"?
    Calvino Rabeni: Combining those ... mmmm - well what have I noticed about my mind lately, that gives something about its purpose?
    Calvino Rabeni: Not the easy answer huh?
    Calvino Rabeni: But those easy ones seem not to give such insights


    I thought of these three facets - wanting to see how they worked together, but wasn't jazzed about the first, therefore...

    Calvino Rabeni: So... I've got two things from that question - Mitzi's "Hey I'm the Boss" and also remembering, recent experiences of how exciting it can be to mind to not be the boss, to be driven by something external and lively ...
    Paradise Tennant: surrender
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Surrender
    Paradise Tennant: to what is
    Calvino Rabeni: Hey, Look at Me! I'm the Boss !!
    Calvino Rabeni: Surrender ... :)))
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... exciting ...! I don't remember *saying* that ... yet, I do agree ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Wow - tough choice
    Calvino Rabeni: Hey, who says I have to choose though, forever and ever ? :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Calvino ... you look cute tonight ... different duds ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Why thanks, Mitzi :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I saw a charlie Rose interview of Michael Crichton the author ... he said he really didn't think the internal life of his characters was of interest ...
    Paradise Tennant: well .. surrender is the easy choice .. because it is what is real
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... that it was just really the situations they found themselves in he was trying to create ...
    Paradise Tennant: Hey I'm the Boss is a fantasy .. :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, perhaps, but a very appealing one
    Paradise Tennant: smiles we only think we are the boss :)
    Calvino Rabeni: What if I "can't" surrender -... can I "boss" myself into it ...?
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: Hey, I'm the Boss - and I demand that I surrender !
    Paradise Tennant: well yes !
    Paradise Tennant: like standing on cliff .. steeling yourself to take the step .. it is a plunge into release to letting go
    Calvino Rabeni: But, hmmm, it feels kind of uncomfortable? To be stuck in the middle -- bossing everything "inside" and surrendering to everything "outside"
    Paradise Tennant: not to being passive .. or to not proactively trying to achieve what you need to do ..but on one level accepting that what is ..should be just as it is :
    Calvino Rabeni: The zone in between seems cramped
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Bleu Oleander: boss seems an unfortunate choice of words ... perhaps "guides" ?
    Paradise Tennant: yes guide and maybe surrender and acceptance :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, whatever works - something with kinder, gentler connotations?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hey, I'm the Boss! Tough Love ! Compassion or Die !
    Calvino Rabeni: (don't worry, I won't get stuck that way )
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Mitzi is no doubt getting all kinds of great things done on the RL side of her interface :)
    Paradise Tennant: hmm funny I never think of it as bossing I just visualize .. or focus my thoughts on what I want to understand
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, a focus or intention can seem easy
    Paradise Tennant: yes it always feels kind of easy to me
    Paradise Tennant: there is a flow ..
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe even more easy than easy ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I think you're onto something there

    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Ahem! I'm here ...!
    Paradise Tennant: you have to feel either engaged and happy with what you are doing .. or if that is not possible you need to accept it fully and then there is flow .. it all becomes easy :)
    Paradise Tennant: there is wu !
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps there *isn't* a flaw in the design of the Mind machine - maybe, it actually works to make Doing the Right Thing a great experience :)
    Paradise Tennant: action moves through you :)
    Paradise Tennant: or wei ?
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the Boss can trust the employees to DTRT :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Boss can go fishing, or golfing, or whatever the heck bosses do ...
    Calvino Rabeni: That's more or less my take on agreeing with what Paradise said last ... :)
    Bleu Oleander: see you all later ... have a great night :)
    Paradise Tennant: kk nite nite bleu namaste :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care, Bleu :)
    Paradise Tennant: what is DTRT?
    Calvino Rabeni: I was enjoying the monochrome of Bleu
    Calvino Rabeni: DTRT is Do The RIght Thing
    Paradise Tennant: yes beautiful !
    Calvino Rabeni: LIke catching the perfect wave while surfing, getting in the groove, the flow
    Calvino Rabeni: but, to have that experience, hmmm
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: bonne nuit bleu
    Paradise Tennant: easy
    Calvino Rabeni: seems to need some perceptivity or practice?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: That's very lyrical, Calvino ... perhaps we can all learn to be the most beautiful surfers we can
    Calvino Rabeni: in some stories, only the innocent beginners, and the true masters, have effortless action
    Paradise Tennant: good analogy .. have to balance .. take advantage of the power .. or you get all wet :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: well there's a poem by William Stafford that comes to mind
    Calvino Rabeni: you follow the thread, you don't ever let go of the thread
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... yes?
    Paradise Tennant: yes I think of it not as effortless action but as .. action where there is absorbtion .. focus flow .. synergy :...
    Paradise Tennant: lots of work sometimes .. is involved
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Way_It_Is.html

    The Way It Is
    There’s a thread you follow. It goes among
    things that change.  But it doesn’t change.
    People wonder about what you are pursuing.
    You have to explain about the thread.
    But it is hard for others to see.
    While you hold it you can’t get lost.
    Tragedies happen; people get hurt
    or die; and you suffer and get old.
    Nothing you do can stop time’s unfolding.
    You don’t ever let go of the thread.
    ~ William Stafford ~

    Calvino Rabeni: I like the picture of the boat in that page
    Paradise Tennant: great pic
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it seems if the focus is on effortlessness, it can find the path of greatest efficiency or least resistance .. but of the focus is on struggle, it can find the most powerful and effective action there too
    Paradise Tennant: yes!
    Paradise Tennant: we create .. what we think about
    Calvino Rabeni: In either case with a certain quality of .. hmm what word would be for that quality?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: serenity?
    Calvino Rabeni: something alive but relaxing and exciting at the same time
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I see a panther creeping through the woods
    Calvino Rabeni: something very vital, maybe focused
    Calvino Rabeni: the edge of "now"
    Calvino Rabeni: the panther's every hair and whisker alert
    Paradise Tennant: eyes wide !
    Calvino Rabeni: but relaxed
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: not sure effortless is the best criteria for ... (what exactly are we discussing?)
    Paradise Tennant: flow
    Paradise Tennant: gaining flow through .. happy engagment or deep abiding acceptance
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: On my meditation ride recently I passed a cat in the grass, very relaxed and focused
    Calvino Rabeni: a couple hours later, I returned the same way, the cat was there, and had a mouse
    Calvino Rabeni: which it dropped to come over and have a love attack on me :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It was pretty happy after all that hunting
    Paradise Tennant: often very proud ..no easy task catching a mouse ..
    Paradise Tennant: not such a good day for the mouse but maybe it gets to come back as a cat :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it might have not minded, or planned it that way
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I just read that poem ... what came to my mind was the memory trace of ourselves from birth throughout life ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I got that from the poem too, a kind of feeling of continuity of presence
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe, remembering oneself?

    Mitzi Mimistrobell: So ... what mouse do you hunt, Calvino? Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: being in the moment .. glimpses of magic .. balance .. peace ... seeing
    Paradise Tennant: with more than my eyes
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: glimpses of magic ...! ahh, me too
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Calvino Rabeni smiles at this quarry
    Calvino Rabeni: I have hunted the same
    Calvino Rabeni: And been in a good mood with it, like that cat, having not found the "prey" elusive
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: all easy :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: and what more can the human spirit wish for that such moments, such quarry? We are all happy hunters ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, also, sometimes it feels more like a Cornucopia
    Calvino Rabeni: Like the only limiting factor, to abundance, is my ability to receive
    Paradise Tennant: yes!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes indeed
    Paradise Tennant: smiles .. well I have had a long but very fun busy day .. still have company here so I should scoot .. set up the coffee for the morning ..walk the dog ..he will not go far there is sheet lighting here .. and then lay down to sleep and watch the sky light up with fire .. all the while thinking of flow :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) bye Paradise, be well :)
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks
    Paradise Tennant: have a good night cal mitzi :) namaste :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: sheet lightning! thank you for that image.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: be well Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: yes great storm out there :)
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite

    In a slight synchronicity, or coincidence, the hexagram I offer as apropos of the discussion, also can be interpreted to show a person raptly watching a display of lightning in the heavens:

    Calvino Rabeni: http://deoxy.org/iching/62 -  Preponderance of the Small
    Calvino Rabeni: to me it speaks to a few of these things
    Calvino Rabeni: The inner view - keeping still
    Calvino Rabeni: like the cat waiting for the mouse
    Calvino Rabeni: or a calm mind
    Calvino Rabeni: and then ... in the surrounding spirit world - thunder - lightning - something amazing and new
    Calvino Rabeni: but all the active lines are, in the center of the whole picture
    Calvino Rabeni: clustered around the interface between inside and outside
    Calvino Rabeni: observation and perception, a careful looking
    Calvino Rabeni: what comes before that, I wonder?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I was trying to read your link, but Firefox is defeating me
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not having a problem with the link in firefox

    Mitzi Mimistrobell: One time when I lived in Florida - I awoke in the middle of the night - what we call "hat lightning" was happening ...
    Calvino Rabeni: sounds exciting and unusual
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... probably what Paradise is calling "sheet lightning" ... I crawled out my window onto the roof ... I was in an altered state, a state of something like "God consciousness" ... I sat on the roof and watched the lightning ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... eventually i went back inside and fell asleep .. . in the morning I was just as before, normal ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... her reference brought back that memory fo rme ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... and relates to the theme of things that just happen to us
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Firefox just needs a reboot ... will try again
    Calvino Rabeni: Well the in-viewer web browser works also
    Calvino Rabeni: you can set it in Preferences
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: really? will it slow things down much?
    Calvino Rabeni: In the morning just as before ... but maybe not quite
    Calvino Rabeni: No, not any more than an external browser
    Calvino Rabeni: but it does get in the way a bit on the screen
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... oh, "heat lightning" = not "hat lightning" ...! ha ha ... funny imagery
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... "but maybe not quite" ... indeed
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, this is a bit like coded messages - with the I Ching numbers as shorthand
    Calvino Rabeni: I was looking at #15 as the "before" for #62
    Calvino Rabeni: to signify the time of waiting alertly but before anything appears
    Calvino Rabeni: and the patience required
    Calvino Rabeni: it kind of matches the earlier discussion of the appropriateness of action, in the flow state
    Calvino Rabeni: http://deoxy.org/iching/15 - Modesty
    Calvino Rabeni: counseling modesty - but alertness to the times when resolute action is appropriate

    That sounded interesting to me ... but I got a feeling like I wanted to change directions to a topic that I'd been carrying around for a while...

    Calvino Rabeni: But...
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, I had it in mind to ask you about that "after" part of the experience
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni still imagining "hat lightning" :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... years later, I shared it with a small community of seekers scattered over the whole world ... using an amazing virtual reality application ... not imagined of at the time of the experience ...
    Calvino Rabeni: heheh
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: 'hat lightning - in a cloud shaped like a top hat?!?

    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe there is a "thread" that connects this memory, with the time of sitting on the roof in the the electrical storm
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... one of many experiences that made me feel "special" but embarrased and confused about what to do with such blessings ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it would have been great to have someone to bless it for you then
    Calvino Rabeni: and let it work as an empowerment or initiation
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... the imagery when Paradise said "sheet lightning" ... and tha fact that it is summer ... and I just got back from camping in the amazing wilderness in the Gila National FOrest ... New Mexico.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: All week the sky had stars only, no moon ... jet black, so many stars, the milky way clearly visible
    Calvino Rabeni: You just got back - so you're still in the "after" part of the experience
    Calvino Rabeni: Did you see meteorites?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I hope so ... and that it's the beginning of the next before and will not just stay an "after" and fade away
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, for a desert camping trip, the new moon is a great time
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Saw about 4! I thought I'd see more considering how long I looked ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Same here :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Seemed unnatural that all week, not a moon in sight ... probably the surrounding mountains concealed the new moon ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Connecting the thread between the after, and the before ...
    Calvino Rabeni: following the thread
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'm glad we're talking about this ... I tried some advice about not losing the feeling ...
    Calvino Rabeni: the string of pearls, is on the thread of remembering
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... don't fall back into your usual routine ... change it up ... so that's what I've done today ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I contemplated not coming here tonight, but I felt a thread to do so
    Calvino Rabeni: Glad you did
    Calvino Rabeni: Followed the thread
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Feels good to be here... your presence is intuitive and perceptive, almost unexpectedly so ... yet I shouldn't be surprised
    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm, smiles, something about knowing
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: oh yes, ways of knowing !
    Calvino Rabeni: I like that poem, especially the last lines:
    Calvino Rabeni: "Nothing you do can stop time???s unfolding. You don???t ever let go of the thread."
    Calvino Rabeni: So yes, I was excited to meet you after your retreat
    Calvino Rabeni: It reminds me though .. of having gone on good retreats, and the business of how to be careful on return, to stabilize the experience, not go completely back into habit, maybe be careful of who to talk to
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: You guys should feel so honored!! I felt that this could possibly enhance ... and, disembodied as this gathering is ... it's a supportive community for me ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: a sort of homelike place...
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm, wow, taking that in, TY mitzi
    Calvino Rabeni: Well I've hoped it could be that way at times

    Calvino Rabeni: At certain times, I just feel "Yes, that's the way!" :) I guess there's the "good days" and "bad days" phenomenon at work, we're not fully at the mercy of circumstances either
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Your skilled stewardship allows us to surf our nuances ... you have the zennish touch
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: So I'll sign off now ... see you next time Cal!!
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni works a bit to take that in - thanks!
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, great talking to you, take care, Mitzi :)

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