2010.08.16 19:00 - Being Seen

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    The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia. This session was attended by Stevenaia, Pema, Paradise, Arch, druth and later, Aphrodite.

    I was having issues with electical power at home, so I was on a different computer (and SL viewer)... this was unfortunate as there was a topic raised that I've been thinking a lot about for the last several days (from Pema's latest Chapter 3: A Reality Check). I feel in some way I missed an opportunity to ask more; luckily, I can come back and ask again when I'm on a better computer. :)


    stevenaia Michinaga: you made it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Stevenaia!
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiels
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: I can change the look, but not the typing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm not home, I did lose power, I had to download SL viewer 2 and I am sooo lost hahah
    stevenaia Michinaga: wow
    stevenaia Michinaga: I can stick it out
    SophiaSharon Larnia makes her wobbly way to a seat ^^
    stevenaia Michinaga: so where are you, coffee shop?
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pema
    Paradise Tennant: hiya pema sophia .. steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
    Pema Pera: hi everybody!
    stevenaia Michinaga: SL Ruthed me so I took it as a sign to stay that way :)
    Pema Pera: glad to see you made it in, Sharon!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry Stevenaia, no, I'm at my moms
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Pema and Paradise :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: no apolgies necessary
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at the ruthed steve(ie) ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I began SL like this :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: O.o
    Pema Pera: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Archmage
    Pema Pera: Hi Arch
    Paradise Tennant: hiya arch :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: my wife used to roll over and ask which avatar I was , told her and she went back to sleep understanding
    SophiaSharon Larnia: as batman Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, as stevieRuth
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think she would be more concerned if I was batman, actually
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Archmage Atlantis: Good person Steve....she accepts you as you.......do you accept her as her?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not only am I on a strange viewer, it's extremely laggy too :) sorry
    stevenaia Michinaga: for 30+ years
    Archmage Atlantis: Hmmmm
    Archmage Atlantis: I don't think women think the same way
    stevenaia Michinaga: I hope not
    stevenaia Michinaga: I like they way they think just the way they are
    Archmage Atlantis: It was hard, loving a guy, who was in his mind a woman........me being gay from the beginning
    stevenaia Michinaga: which part was hard?
    stevenaia Michinaga: let me rephase
    stevenaia Michinaga: nevermind
    Archmage Atlantis: Ignoring the pun........it was difficult to love her in herself, without knowing
    stevenaia Michinaga: not intended, I’m slow tonight
    Archmage Atlantis: I insisted on calling her by him
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you and me both, the rain is making me sleepy ^^
    Paradise Tennant: yes :) likewise .. :)
    Archmage Atlantis: I only see why women, who are forced to wear the bodies the do
    Archmage Atlantis: *they do
    Archmage Atlantis: Are so angry
    stevenaia Michinaga: there is a thought that puns are a very male attribute
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sighs
    Paradise Tennant: was reading Pema's latest chapter this weekend :)
    Paradise Tennant: really good .. thank you for sharing pema:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: probably why I miss so many
    Pema Pera: thanks, Paradise!
    stevenaia Michinaga: I spent sunday having my computer read it to me and all the "reports"


    Pema Pera: it's fun to write those chapters, even though I really don't know where I'm going with them :-)   (I missed this comment the first time around, and thank you Pema! I'm so honored to be a part of that in any small way, as I think we all are here).
    SophiaSharon Larnia: read to you Steve??
    Paradise Tennant: plans to ask steve how to have her computer read to her :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Macs can read text to you in a voice,
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ooh freaky
    Paradise Tennant: cool freaky
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: does the voice sound like Pema? :D
    Pema Pera: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: that interesting thing was , although shout I was almost in a dream-like state at the end of some
    Pema Pera: can you choose the accent?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but no Pema accent
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    stevenaia Michinaga: they were very relaxing to hear
    Archmage Atlantis: I give Pema props
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that happens to me a lot when I read certain kinds of things
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that dream like state
    Archmage Atlantis: And Storm also
    SophiaSharon Larnia: even coming here sometimes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi druth
    stevenaia Michinaga: your style is very readable, Pema
    Paradise Tennant: hiya druth :)
    Pema Pera: hi Druth!
    Paradise Tennant: yes very readable :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Still Eliza, Sophia (ooops you are here), and Edenn props
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I appreciate that style too
    druth Vlodovic: hi
    Pema Pera: thanks, Steve!
    Pema Pera: and P & S :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: does not make it less difficult to understand, in a way
    Pema Pera: I'm trying to not think too much while writing :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have a question I just remembered Pema
    stevenaia Michinaga: I find it simple and complete w/o the need to reference other material
    Pema Pera: after a few years of PaB conversations, it is becoming natural to just "chat"
    Pema Pera: yes, Sharon?
    Archmage Atlantis: I never knew this song, yet i always knew it......"The world as we know it is ending"
    Pema Pera: any moment, Arch :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the other night we were talking about letting yourself being seen as like being held, is this the same thing?
    stevenaia Michinaga: some nights here I am doing wikipedia reads on everything from Hindu Deities to Jungian references
    Archmage Atlantis: Agree
    Pema Pera: it can mean many things, Sharon
    Pema Pera: letting yourself be seen -- I find that a very powerful suggestion to help contemplate/meditate/open-up
    Pema Pera: perhaps because it is not very specific

    Paradise Tennant: nods .. can you speak to the layers of what you mean :)
    Paradise Tennant: listens
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
    Pema Pera: and yes, one of the associations that naturally may come up can be feeling yourself being taken care of
    Pema Pera: being held
    Pema Pera: by the Universe, or Reality, or Being, or God, or whatever speaks to you
    Pema Pera: by your friends, by yourself . . .

    Archmage Atlantis: Sharon, it can mean surviving a challenge to one's tenure......as an astrophysist,,,,to sure a bigger goal
    Pema Pera: not hiding . . . that's hard but very liberating
    Pema Pera: it's very hard to see *that* we are hiding constantly
    Pema Pera: in so many ways
    Pema Pera: for ourselves and others

    Archmage Atlantis: agree
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the more I think about it, the closer I come to thinking that if you have psychological barriers to letting yourself being seen, there comes a point its hard to go on
    Pema Pera: yes, but *seeing* those barriers is already more than half of the solution
    Pema Pera: not seeing them, ignoring them, as we tend to do, means that there is no way out
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what if you knew they were always there
    Pema Pera: knowing is one thing, but seeing the barriers face to face is even more powerful

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Archmage Atlantis: It is not knowing they were there
    Archmage Atlantis: It is facing the cost
    Pema Pera: what happens, Sharon, when you try to let yourself be seen?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i feel uncomfortable at the very idea of it
    Pema Pera: that's a great signal right there -- though not much fun, I guess :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and understand that tells me alot
    Pema Pera: I think it holds for all of us, though
    Pema Pera: some degree of discomfort in being seen
      (Oh how I wish I had said here, that You Seeing and Being Seeing feels so much different than this!!! Thankfully, a topic for another day.)


    Archmage Atlantis: That is enough for tonight for me........May the being of us all stand, the place be taken, an we know the path. Amen.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: goodnight Arch
    Paradise Tennant: good nite Arch sleep well :)
    Pema Pera: bye Arch!
    Pema Pera: and there are many situations is life where it is better not to let part of yourself be seen; if you would be open to everyone about everything your thought and felt, it would be very confusing since you would be constantly misunderstood :-)
    Pema Pera: *in life
    SophiaSharon Larnia: indeed
    Paradise Tennant: nods yes !
    Pema Pera: but even then, you can let it be seen to yourself, even if you modulate what you show to others in any given situation
    stevenaia Michinaga: I have a quite different perspective on this on this and that is being what I am yet beign defined to an extent by those seeing me, ie, I listen to what surrounds me (being seen) live comfortably in that, so far no major conflicts
    Pema Pera: so "being seen" is between you and reality, or you and your God, or however you want to put that
    Pema Pera: you and Being

    stevenaia Michinaga: the part of that that can be easy or difficult, is accepting that is seen
    stevenaia Michinaga: *what is seen
    Pema Pera: it doesn't have to be a conflict, I think, Steve; I meant that if I let somebody see something about my ideas that I know they are likely to misunderstand, it's then better not to show that part
    Pema Pera: the problem comes in when I also hide it for myself . . . a trap we all fall into to some extent I think
    druth Vlodovic: you have to be able to discern when someone is not "safe"
    Pema Pera: exactly because we tend to see ourselves as defined by others, as you said, Steve
    Pema Pera: yes, druth

    stevenaia Michinaga: everyone is free to misunderstand, hiding rarely controls the reaction of others
    Pema Pera: btw, druth, I really like what you wrote in your profile: Coincidentally truth always seems to lie right where we stop looking for it.
    druth Vlodovic: :)
    Pema Pera: there is a difference there, Steve, between hiding and between trying to speak the other person's language
    Pema Pera: telling the same story in a different way in order to reach a different person is not hiding, I think
    Pema Pera: though it may involve leaving parts out that are hard to digest for the other
    druth Vlodovic: it's funny these days how people will open themselves and show everything to everyone, I wonder sometimes if it isn't a way of hiding from themselves
    Pema Pera: say if somebody truly believes that only Christianity has the truth, I may phrase my understanding of the world in terms of biblical references, in order to have a meaningful conversation -- without a feeling that I am "hiding" my interest in other religions
    Pema Pera: great point, druth!
    Pema Pera: so true

    Pema Pera: it avoids thinking things through -- an easy way out
    Paradise Tennant: we are more than .. our little selves though .. there is more .. clearly .. more .. how do we tap into that view
    Pema Pera: letting more be seen perhaps :)
    Pema Pera: rather than trying to excavate it ourselves
    Pema Pera: a little view of ourselves can't excavate a larger view

    druth Vlodovic: the scariest thing is to relax and see, without reference to what you know is there, just be sure you know what you want to be there before you start :-)
    Pema Pera: perhaps you can drop that last part too?
    Pema Pera: not wanting anything to be there?
    druth Vlodovic: and risk being someone you don't like?
    Pema Pera: what kind of risk would that be?
    Pema Pera: do you mean that relaxing may lead to you yourself changing in a way you don't like?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (sorry so quiet, computer is freezing and then I get several lines of text)


    Paradise Tennant: smiles at sophia
    Pema Pera: (we have had several lulls in the conversation, somehow, Sharon :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok :)
    Paradise Tennant: lulls are good .. time for pondering :)
    Pema Pera: yes :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: they happen too rarely in RL
    Pema Pera: indeed, wonder how those could be stimulated more . . .
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, watching a room spin into discomfort
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its easy if two or more quiet people are together, just discussion I guess
    Pema Pera: yes, if they know each other well enough
    Paradise Tennant: there is a good measure of the divine in stillness :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: but of course most people are escaping from stillness these days through ipods and the like . . .
    SophiaSharon Larnia: silence for me doesn’t equate stillness, I ve been quiet externally, but so wrapped up in many thoughts, Ibe surprised if you asked me why I hadn't said anything
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i'd
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (in rl, not here at pab
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: yes, I know the feeling, Sharon!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
    Paradise Tennant: but quiet does not always equate to being still ..but it is a start :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: like an alternative reality here, where silence is unquestioned
    Paradise Tennant: and sometimes .. there is something to be said for pondering .. focusing on your thoughts
    Pema Pera: yes, that too, in the middle of enough openness
    Pema Pera: letting them be surrounded by silence
    Pema Pera: but often we put our thoughts in echo chambers :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yea
    Paradise Tennant: likes the analogy of being held by space by the universe lovely graphic .. image
    Pema Pera: why the heck did I do this . . . do this . . . do this . . . .
    Pema Pera: echo . . . echo . . .
    SophiaSharon Larnia: eek
    Pema Pera: and yes, that's where space can sooth so simply
    Pema Pera: isn't it funny that space is invisible and literally insubstantial, a "nothing" -- and yet we talk so meaningfully about "giving ourselves space"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I’ve thought about that before, in trying to understand a definition of it
    Pema Pera humming "I got plenty of nothing. And nothing's plenty for me."
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this was around the time i decided I didn’t need definitions anymore
    Pema Pera: :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm not sure yet if this is a good thing or not :D
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs at the catchy tune ^^
    druth Vlodovic: you need a little quiet in your mind to appreciate stillness
    SophiaSharon Larnia: andway, bye for now and thank you! This computer feels a lot hotter than an hour ago
    SophiaSharon Larnia: any*
    druth Vlodovic: 'bye sophia
    Pema Pera: bye Sharon, glad lightning didn't strike your computer (or you) :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: my power at home is off, I am at my moms :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but thanks
    Pema Pera: yes, druth, it takes one to know one :)
    Paradise Tennant: good nite sharon :) take care
    Pema Pera: I'm off too, lunch coming up
    Pema Pera: nice talking with y'all


    Paradise Tennant: good nite pema thank you for sharing
    druth Vlodovic: bye pema, good to see you again
    stevenaia Michinaga: watching the weather, Sophia's area had severe storms
    Paradise Tennant: yikes
    Paradise Tennant: well I hope it settles down :)
    druth Vlodovic: we've had a lot this year
    Paradise Tennant: I should scoot too . getting pretty sleepy :) thank you two .. for the company ..the conversation .. as always .. really enjoyable :)
    druth Vlodovic: so long paradise :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Can you see me yet?
    stevenaia Michinaga: hellow whitetiger
    druth Vlodovic: I can hear you...
    stevenaia Michinaga: oops
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Aphrodite
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have an impossible time rezzing these days. too laden down with stuff I guess
    druth Vlodovic: sl has been pretty slow for me lately too
    stevenaia Michinaga: made me a cloud so I changed viewers and I came back as a woman
    Aphrodite Macbain: Please dont feel you have to stay because of me. I just thought I'd have look-in.
    Aphrodite Macbain: did it make it easier to rezz when you came back as a woman?
    stevenaia Michinaga: well I just assumed it was meant to be
    druth Vlodovic: fate,
    Aphrodite Macbain: ? what? becoming a woman?
    stevenaia Michinaga: accepting of change, nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, SL is telling me something
    Aphrodite Macbain: I cannot accept the fact that I am going to remain as a white egg
    druth Vlodovic: who knows, maybe it'll bleed over to rl...
    druth Vlodovic: I can see you
    Aphrodite Macbain: There's more to Second Life than that!
    stevenaia Michinaga: that’s what happened to me... and here I am now, everyone saw me fine as we do you, but I only saw myself as a cloud
    Aphrodite Macbain: hmm. weird
    druth Vlodovic: your computer is still downloading the images
    Aphrodite Macbain: People see us differently
    stevenaia Michinaga: some mages never finish
    Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps but when I used Emerald viewer I have no problems
    Aphrodite Macbain: But there's alot about the Emerald Viewer I don't like - tough choices
    stevenaia Michinaga: I finally liked Vers 2, Emerald is more like vers 1
    Aphrodite Macbain: But insignificant in the larger scheme of things
    stevenaia Michinaga: <-- not a techy, only see the surface of software
    Aphrodite Macbain: me too - cant penetrate below it'
    stevenaia Michinaga: if it works, I'm happy woman , man, or whatever (but not a furry)
    druth Vlodovic: no? darn!
    Aphrodite Macbain: druth - are those feathers wearing?
    Aphrodite Macbain: you are wearing?
    druth Vlodovic: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: Have to draw the line somewhere, feathers are ok
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) what would be even better?


    Aphrodite Macbain: On closer look -they are a fantastic assemblage of leathers, buckles and silk with an anise seed lying softly
    druth Vlodovic: you can never have too many buckles :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: so you are no longer a cloud?
    Aphrodite Macbain: keeps you all together
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm still an egg. Never emerging, always a promise
    Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps I'll roll away or turn into an omelet
    druth Vlodovic: lol, you never know
    druth Vlodovic: I'm off, catch you guys later
    Aphrodite Macbain: nope bye all, bey stevenaia, druth
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Druth
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye A
    druth Vlodovic: bye steve, aphrodite


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