2010.08.21 19:00 - Befriending Time

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
    Paradise Tennant: hiya pema .. how are you :)
    Pema Pera: fine, happy, how about you?
    Paradise Tennant: fine happy a bit tired and still cannot see any cushions yet :)
    Paradise Tennant: how is life in japan :)
    Pema Pera: all good things will come for those who wait . . .
    Pema Pera: (re: cushions)
    Pema Pera: hot
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Pema Pera: in both Tokyo and Kyoto the maximum temeratures are often 36 or 37 degrees, just about body temperature, 100 F
    Pema Pera: and worse, it doesn't get much cooler at night either
    Paradise Tennant: yowser
    Pema Pera: and very humid too
    Pema Pera: but otherwise I'm happy to be here -- just staying indoors during the day mostly
    Paradise Tennant: nods understandably so :)
    Pema Pera: and soon things will get better
    Pema Pera: September through November are the best time of year here, I feel
    Pema Pera: I love the fall, anywhere, but especially in Japan
    Pema Pera: any cushions yet, paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: been enjoying your writing :) sort of like one of the old fashion novels that you come in episodes .. :) yes the fall is lovely .. cooler here at night already

    Nice comparison, to episodic novel writing!

    Paradise Tennant: nope
    Pema Pera: ah yes, that occurred to me too, and thanks :-)
    Paradise Tennant: been taking me 10 15 minutes to rez not sure why
    Pema Pera: neither the writer nor the reader has any idea how the novel will continue to meander, when serialized in newspapers or magazines
    Pema Pera: same in my case :)
    Pema Pera: hi Adoro!
    adoro Rhapsody: hi pema
    Pema Pera: good to see you again
    Paradise Tennant: yes makes it more interesting .. spontaneous :)
    Paradise Tennant: hiya adoro ;)
    adoro Rhapsody: pleasure is mine
    adoro Rhapsody: hi paradice
    Pema Pera: it must be late for you in Holland, adoro!
    adoro Rhapsody: no early , pema
    Pema Pera: :-)
    adoro Rhapsody: its 4.14 am here
    adoro Rhapsody: and with u ?
    Pema Pera: 11:14 am
    Pema Pera: in Tokyo
    adoro Rhapsody: wow
    Pema Pera: 10:14 pm for Paradise, I guess
    Pema Pera: we're really spanning the globe
    adoro Rhapsody: so what happens with u there will happen over 7 hours in holland ?
    adoro Rhapsody: u r in land of the rising sun in real
    Pema Pera: only things like "clocks chiming twelve o'clock" I guess :-)
    Pema Pera: (what will happen 7 hours later)
    Pema Pera: (sorry, when the fountain gets misty, we pause for 90 seconds)
    adoro Rhapsody: drinking coffe or tea
    Pema Pera: both are good here :)
    adoro Rhapsody: ok sorry
    Pema Pera: and yes, the sun really rises here
    adoro Rhapsody: where is here ?
    Pema Pera: Tokyo
    adoro Rhapsody: du u pause there ?
    Pema Pera: visiting for my work
    adoro Rhapsody: working on sunday ?
    Pema Pera: I'm staying here a few months
    adoro Rhapsody: interesting
    Pema Pera: and my work is in my own time, no 9-5 or anything like that
    Pema Pera: it's my hobby after all :)
    Pema Pera: astrophysics
    adoro Rhapsody: do they have ecolution trhere too ?
    Pema Pera: ?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles really makes for a rich life when you love what you do :)
    adoro Rhapsody: have u seen wubbo ockels ecolution on sail 2010 in amsterdam ?
    Pema Pera: no?
    adoro Rhapsody: yesterday ?
    Pema Pera: what is it?
    adoro Rhapsody: well look in youtube
    Pema Pera: (I live in New York, dont' come often to Holland)
    adoro Rhapsody: search for: ecoluton Groningen
    Pema Pera: yes sir
    adoro Rhapsody: in yourube
    adoro Rhapsody: youtube
    adoro Rhapsody: and u will see
    adoro Rhapsody: i hope u can understand it because its in dutch
    Pema Pera: Ecolution: Premiere European Hemp Clothing . . . .

    That did seem like a fun web site, http://www.ecolution.com/, but probably not what was meant...

    Pema Pera: interesting
    adoro Rhapsody: no ecolution groningen
    adoro Rhapsody: or ockels ecolution
    Pema Pera: oh, a sailing ship?
    adoro Rhapsody: his new sailing ship
    adoro Rhapsody: co2 neutral
    adoro Rhapsody: high tech
    Pema Pera: hi Kochira
    Pema Pera: こちら?
    Pema Pera: come join us if you like!
    Pema Pera: I guess not :-)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: was wondering if you would like to talk a bit about your latest chapter :)
    Pema Pera: oh, I'd be happy too
    Paradise Tennant: pema .. would that be ok ? adoro ?
    adoro Rhapsody: i wonder if its good for my health to stay
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: in pab
    Pema Pera: aything special that you were drawn to, or had questions about?
    Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Chapter_3:_Magic%2C_a_Reality_Check
    Paradise Tennant: well the enigma of time of course :)
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Pema Pera: yes, an enigma it is
    Pema Pera: and yet everything is given by/in time
    Pema Pera: perhaps even as time
    Pema Pera: and we know so little about it . . . .
    adoro Rhapsody: even second life time
    Pema Pera: oh sure
    adoro Rhapsody: but its a tool of management
    Pema Pera: in SL space is virtual, but time is the same old time as in RL, by and large -- we meet "in real time" as they say!
    Pema Pera: I've often wondered about whether we can create a virtual world in which time is also virtual . . . .

    I've been playing with the thought that it could make very interesting science fiction stories, if we could find a way to give a specific meaning to virtual time.

    adoro Rhapsody: who started with central europe time in greenwich ?
    adoro Rhapsody: and why ?
    Pema Pera: one question is: sometimes we feel we control time, sometimes we feel time controls us, . . . are both true, or one, or none??
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: thats TAO
    Pema Pera: how do you feel, Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    adoro Rhapsody: whats so funnny ?
    Paradise Tennant: not sure it exists really
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: its an beleive ?
    adoro Rhapsody: believe ?
    adoro Rhapsody: no science ?
    Pema Pera: during the PaB retreat we worked with both notions: we controlling time and time controlling us
    Pema Pera: and we tried to put each one on its head so to speak, trying to find alternatives

    A little further on I said more about each one.

    Paradise Tennant: sometimes .. there are moments where .. there is a glimmer of .. a difference to what we view as time
    Pema Pera: can you say more about that, Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: hmm felt it more when I was a kid .. but .. just a sense .. that one moment was no different from the next really .. there was a kind of core that did not change
    adoro Rhapsody: 5 minutes in waiting room by dentist is another experience than 5 minutes on birthdayparty !
    Pema Pera: timeless time perhaps . . .
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    adoro Rhapsody: time flies when u having fun
    adoro Rhapsody: 90 second s?
    adoro Rhapsody: ?
    adoro Rhapsody: 90 secondslife ?

    Here is the first one:

    Pema Pera: during the retreat we experimented with first us doing an exploration, and then later letting Time do the exploration for us -- as a we to put the "us controlling time" on its head
    adoro Rhapsody: wow
    adoro Rhapsody: interesting
    adoro Rhapsody: and what came out ?
    Pema Pera: (we pause for 90 seconds here, adoro, once every 15 minutes: pond gest misty, bells ring, green lines in chat log)
    adoro Rhapsody: its a nice ritual
    adoro Rhapsody: that controls us ?
    adoro Rhapsody: here in pab ?

    And here is the second one:

    Pema Pera: then we also put "time controlling us" on its head, in a different way: instead we did "play as Being" and while identifying ourselves with Being we could then let Time, as an aspect of Being, Play
    Pema Pera: both ways of turning things around were very interesting, and deeply inspiring
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Pema Pera: hard to summarize the effects here in a few words
    adoro Rhapsody: they still are
    Pema Pera: does that give some idea or sense, Paradise?
    Pema Pera: those two motions?
    adoro Rhapsody: emotions ?
    adoro Rhapsody: or notions ?
    Pema Pera: what you described may be close to the first reversal, letting Time do its thing
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: sorry for interupting
    Paradise Tennant: I bought a wind up clock today .one that has a very nice chime to it .. you wind it up once a month :)
    Pema Pera: (motions like in reversing the usual attitudes, adoro)
    Pema Pera: wow, a month worth of chimes with one gesture!
    adoro Rhapsody: so u dont have a time leg Pema ?
    adoro Rhapsody: lag
    Paradise Tennant: thought it would be an interest ritual .. both the winding and the chiming because it is a signal for me to drop and pause
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Pema Pera: how often does it chime?
    Paradise Tennant: on the hour and half hour
    adoro Rhapsody: pause is good for health
    adoro Rhapsody: but smoking pause is when u may smoke, the rest of time u may not smoke
    adoro Rhapsody: u better not smoke at all

    I thought about an analogy, with time as a door.

    Pema Pera: coming back to time: it would be really curious if we watched a room where there would be a secret door, and each moment all kind of things would appear from through that door -- we would be curious what would be behind the door
    Pema Pera: but time behaves just like that
    Pema Pera: each moment everything appears from out of the door of time
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pema Pera: and yet we're used to it
    Paradise Tennant: we are
    Pema Pera: don't ask many questions
    Paradise Tennant: very accepting
    Pema Pera: don't ask don't tell :-)
    adoro Rhapsody: i agree
    Pema Pera: so how to ask Time?
    Pema Pera: how to get the conversation started?
    adoro Rhapsody: hear, see and be silent
    Pema Pera: that may be a good start, adoro :)
    adoro Rhapsody: we dont have to kill u because u dont know too much
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm what is the first question pema :)
    Pema Pera: it can take many forms
    Pema Pera: we can ask Time to show its face -- that's pretty direct
    Pema Pera: or for starters we can ask how It lets appearance appear -- to give us a hint :-)
    Pema Pera: does that make some sense, to try?
    Paradise Tennant: what if there is no time :) .. per se ..only a pattern that unfolds and the order of the pattern or the space of the pattern is what we call time but it is no distinct really sometimes that's how I think i of it
    Pema Pera: hi Hokon!
    Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
    Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
    adoro Rhapsody: hi hokon
    Pema Pera: that's quite possible, Paradise
    Hokon Cazalet: lol play as being, i was just pondering that concept

    Hokon's remark peaked my curiosity.

    adoro Rhapsody: there was no time in paradise
    Paradise Tennant: hiya hokon :)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Pema Pera: what comes to mind, Hokon, when pondering play as Being?
    Hokon Cazalet: oh i was just thinking about how play (not to interrupt you guys' topic) would be a way to access Being
    Pema Pera: yes, that's the idea, roughly :-)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe, i hadnt gotten far yet
    Paradise Tennant: a wonderful approach .. :)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Pema Pera: and yes, Paradise, seeing time as a patterning movement is an interesting angle
    Pema Pera: Being patterning its patterns, without substantiality somehow "behind" what appears
    Pema Pera: Hokon, one thing we do sometimes during short breaks, in RL and in SL, is to try to drop what we have in order to see what we are
    adoro Rhapsody: is that the purpose of the 90 seconds break ?
    Pema Pera: not so much a purpose, as more one way to get into the spirit of the approach
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: i see
    Pema Pera: you like Kant, Hokon?
    Pema Pera: (just saw your profile :-)
    Pema Pera: and phenomenology -- like Husserl?
    Pema Pera: oops, no more Hokon -- crashed perhaps?
    adoro Rhapsody: just flew away
    Pema Pera: dropped everything :-)
    adoro Rhapsody: the art of letting go
    Pema Pera: -)
    Paradise Tennant: yes it is an art L(
    Paradise Tennant: ':)
    adoro Rhapsody: no science
    adoro Rhapsody: i like u both in this discussion technique
    Pema Pera: coming back to time, Paradise, do you see some options for trying to become friends with time? Or does that sound too . . . abstract . . . strange . . . unrealistic . . . ?
    adoro Rhapsody: lets innovate our time concept
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Pema Pera: when walking in nature, we can befriend trees and clouds and brooks . . . why not time?
    Pema Pera: wb Hokon
    adoro Rhapsody: because time is not nature made but man made
    Hokon Cazalet: ty
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Paradise Tennant: smiles wv hokon :)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Paradise Tennant: wb
    adoro Rhapsody: Hey!

    Paradise asked some difficult questions :-)

    Paradise Tennant: how does being friends with time work pema
    Pema Pera: oh, you just offer friendship, or whatever you do when walking in nature, and befriending trees or clouds
    Pema Pera: and you let yourself be seen
    Paradise Tennant: listens can you say more
    adoro Rhapsody: to be seen ?
    Pema Pera: it has a nice phenomenology component -- I see in Hokon's profile an interest in phenomenology :-)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    adoro Rhapsody: the phenomon of time ?
    Pema Pera: not so easy to describe in a few words . . . but if any of you try, and describe what you find, it would be much easier to take it from there
    Pema Pera: we have to recognize in each other's words what we are hinting at
    Pema Pera: we can't pin it down
    Pema Pera: but we can resonate
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: like music
    Pema Pera: shall we try during the next 90 seconds pause?
    Pema Pera: befriending time?
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Paradise Tennant: to resonate with it :)
    adoro Rhapsody: time has become my friend
    adoro Rhapsody: no hurrie anymore
    Paradise Tennant: smiles a great friend to have :)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    adoro Rhapsody: pab and internet are timeless
    adoro Rhapsody: but still my friend

    Paradise switched from SL to RL and from indoors to out:

    Paradise Tennant: well speaking of time I think I will scoot getting late here .. the dog is giving me a pointed stare .. with an intent to spend some time to outside ..
    Pema Pera: enjoy the walk, Paradise!
    Hokon Cazalet: bye paradise =)
    adoro Rhapsody: so he is your boss ?
    adoro Rhapsody: and friend ?
    adoro Rhapsody: its dog apuse
    adoro Rhapsody: pause
    Paradise Tennant: lol indeed ...
    Paradise Tennant: thank you all ...namaste :)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    adoro Rhapsody: namaste
    Pema Pera: namaste, Paradise :)
    adoro Rhapsody: have a good time
    adoro Rhapsody: timeless time in paradise
    adoro Rhapsody: no jetlag annymore
    Pema Pera: :)
    adoro Rhapsody: oh no
    adoro Rhapsody: thats my biorytm
    adoro Rhapsody: no time no ritm ?
    adoro Rhapsody: no music ?
    Hokon Cazalet: yeah, that could be true
    adoro Rhapsody: its the tone that makes the music not the rytm ?
    Hokon Cazalet: id say both does
    adoro Rhapsody: ok and and no ar ar
    adoro Rhapsody: or or
    Hokon Cazalet: well tone and rythym together, the motion of harmonies changing forming a melody
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: just like form and contents?
    Hokon Cazalet: sorta
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    adoro Rhapsody: u r wise lady
    adoro Rhapsody: no olympic records ?when no time ?
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    adoro Rhapsody: so high definition time measureing may be our friend
    adoro Rhapsody: hundres micro seconds life ?
    Hokon Cazalet: lol
    Pema Pera: I rarely measure my friends, adoro
    adoro Rhapsody: ok letting go time is friendly
    Hokon Cazalet: i would say time has a primal nature that is not measurable
    adoro Rhapsody: but champions wanna get measured
    adoro Rhapsody: because of theyr record

    A nice surprise to see Aphrodite joining us.  I thought she was still traveling.

    Pema Pera: Hi there Aphrodite!
    Hokon Cazalet: hi venus =)
    adoro Rhapsody: hi aph
    Pema Pera: and so nice to hear that you joined us as a guardian!
    Pema Pera: black is fine!
    Hokon Cazalet: black is the color of mystery =)
    Pema Pera: noon right now
    adoro Rhapsody: black is no colour
    Hokon Cazalet: black is a color and isnt
    Pema Pera: oh, that's fine!
    Pema Pera: good to see you again
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: thats TAO
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Pema Pera: and nice to see all the many welcomes that you got by email -- did you get a chance to read them already?
    adoro Rhapsody: no time ?
    adoro Rhapsody: to read the manuals ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. It was lovely
    Aphrodite Macbain: to get the emails
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: cu later
    Pema Pera: bye Aphro!
    Hokon Cazalet: byes
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    adoro Rhapsody: what u see is not what u get
    Pema Pera: I'll have to get going too
    Pema Pera: nice talking with y'all !
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Hokon Cazalet waves
    adoro Rhapsody: have a good time in tokio !
    Hokon Cazalet: im gonna get going also
    Pema Pera: bye everybody
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    adoro Rhapsody: i wanna bring in 2 urls for the record :
    adoro Rhapsody: see: http://enovatechina.com
    adoro Rhapsody: and especialy for our dutch participants: http://www.idealize.nl
    adoro Rhapsody: thanks forredording and publishing.
    adoro Rhapsody: for recording

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