2010.08.22 01:00 - The difference between marketing and offering

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    Susi Alcott: Hi Aztlan

    Aztlan Foss: are you the chat person

    Susi Alcott: oh

    Susi Alcott: what does that mean ?

    Aztlan Foss: I don't know, usually there's someone here controlling the fountain. It records the conversation and such

    Susi Alcott: ********

    Aztlan Foss: what do you cultivate?


    Susi Alcott: all what's around *

    Susi Alcott: ah well; I'm not the chat person; Moon is

    Moon Fargis: greetings everyone :)

    Aztlan Foss: hey mooon

    Susi Alcott: well; I take it to be kind of joke

    Moon Fargis: ah what joke ?

    Susi Alcott: that I'de cultivate anything

    Susi Alcott: but some ppl say that I do it being present

    Aztlan Foss: how?

    Moon Fargis: well i cultivate plants :)

    Susi Alcott: well...to me it's not any doing, but being

    Aztlan Foss: you cultvate wether you like to or not then

    Susi Alcott: exactly

    Susi Alcott: according some people

    Aztlan Foss: that's kinda cool, it's like being productive with out having to do anything

    Susi Alcott: well; that's me...

    Moon Fargis: hmmm are we here to be productive ?:)

    Susi Alcott: well...maybe I have been....

    Aztlan Foss: I think productivity is more of a semantics issue

    Susi Alcott: but never thought so

    Susi Alcott: I once heared as story....

    Aztlan Foss: about what?

    Susi Alcott: as I was in the interview for the job/work

    Susi Alcott: and that boss told me why he would've like to 'have' me

    Susi Alcott: he explained to me that there's such people who can do when commanded

    Susi Alcott: and they are most of the ppl

    Susi Alcott: and then there's people how can do 'by themself'

    Susi Alcott: and they are ab few ten % (dont remember anymore), but less

    Susi Alcott: and then there's ppl who can create art/items/products

    Susi Alcott: that was again less %

    Susi Alcott: Hi Qt :)***

    Moon Fargis: morning qt

    Aztlan Foss: hi!

    Qt Core: Hi Aztlan

    Qt Core: Hi Susi, Moon

    Susi Alcott: and that there's such ppl who are only ab 3% of mankind, and they create movement/doing to other ppl; 'make' them to do....

    Susi Alcott: and he claimed me to be such person

    Susi Alcott: I didn't take the job

    Susi Alcott: end of the story

    Aztlan Foss: you didn't want to move things?

    Susi Alcott: Ur very right

    Moon Fargis: :)

    Moon Fargis: hmm so he offered you a leading position then ?

    Moon Fargis: or just something where you also wouldve been commanded?


    Susi Alcott: ah ; would've not been commanded at all

    Moon Fargis: morning strannik :)

    Susi Alcott: well...I sure know that people are different and has different skills

    Aztlan Foss: hi strannik

    Susi Alcott: Hi Strannik

    Qt Core: Hi Strannik

    Susi Alcott: but...well...the idea that use something I'm strong...to effect to weaker ppl....

    Strannik Zipper: I cannot find the pavillion -something is wrong with my viewer

    Susi Alcott: that was not good idea imo

    Moon Fargis: youre in it :)

    Qt Core: hi Darren

    Strannik Zipper: I'm lost in a jungle

    Susi Alcott: Hi Darren

    Strannik Zipper: oh there it is

    Moon Fargis: morning darren :)

    Strannik Zipper: that was weird

    Darren Islar: mornnmmmmmm (means good morning)

    Moon Fargis: no worry youll be lost in a moment again :)

    Qt Core: sometimes Moon nature remember the complexity of the mind, sometime it just hid cushions ;-)

    Strannik Zipper: at least I'm sitting down

    Susi Alcott: well; that would've bring me much money, and many ppl would say I was stupid...and I know that many people are verry rich for that, cuz they use their such skills...but....yet...it's not my way of thinking

    Moon Fargis: :D

    Moon Fargis: ahyes understand that verry well

    Strannik Zipper: Susi - you obviously are not starving or homeless

    Susi Alcott: so; to work in the company in which is such boss; that was not good idea imo

    Susi Alcott: I have starved much in my life, but not been homeless....

    Susi Alcott: but some whiles my home has been very weak

    Strannik Zipper: One rule of business is - do what you love and the money will follow

    Susi Alcott: well; I've got many kind of offerings in my life that I'de been better what comes to money; yet...I must live with mysel whole my life, so I cannot work against myself that way

    Susi Alcott: well...I have done also much hard/heavy work, but never I've learned to make business

    Susi Alcott: hm; are U Strannik from USA ?

    Strannik Zipper: yes

    Susi Alcott: as I've been told many times that in USA I'de be a millionare

    Strannik Zipper: but the rule of do what you love first is not just for business - also for art, etc.

    Susi Alcott: but not based on that I'de be any business person, but based on what I am; the healer and the spritual guide

    Strannik Zipper: so you are doing what you love then?

    Susi Alcott: well; I dont do...that's the point; I just am

    Susi Alcott: cannot much do anything else; that's why I'm also poor

    Strannik Zipper: Socrates: To do is to be

    Strannik Zipper: Plato: To be is tod do

    Strannik Zipper: Sinatra: do be do be do

    Qt Core: Homer: Doh!

    Moon Fargis: Moon: Don't be to do, do to be

    Susi Alcott: well; their sayings neither tells how could I make money with that

    Aztlan Foss: lol

    Aztlan Foss: well you could make money the usual way and still be as you are

    Darren Islar: wow Moon, that is a difficult one :)

    Strannik Zipper: Sometimes you can just be what you are and do what you do, but get a bit smarter about things that help like marketing, reaching out, etc.

    Susi Alcott: and what is that usual way ?

    Strannik Zipper: Sometimes being who you are means stretching yourself beyond what you thought was possible for you

    Aztlan Foss: i'm sure the people working in those fields kinda feel disconnected too, but they don't have to, you can always just know it's a role youre playing

    Susi Alcott: well; might that been the point; I've never been able to play any roll

    Strannik Zipper: you might not have to - you may have to adjust the activity to yourself

    Susi Alcott: but...I think that you have not much options to understand how it's to live at first in Finnland, as a woman and as what I am

    Strannik Zipper: Do you think that you are perceived in a way that is a problem?


    Susi Alcott: whole my love I've done my best ; worked hard and served people as much I've ever could...so; there's never been more that I could've done...and my 59 years experiences of life has not changed my view and way of thinking either afterwords what comes to my choices; couldn't been able to chooce otherwise

    Susi Alcott: whole my life I meant to write

    Susi Alcott: I need dictionary for the word perceived...a moment

    Strannik Zipper: look up perception instead

    Strannik Zipper: I meant it as "way of seeing"

    Susi Alcott: ah yes; that's what I've been since the cradle

    Susi Alcott: an outsider from all possible

    Susi Alcott: so; not much such sayings that for example there's been heared here today, has truly not worked out in my life

    Darren Islar: Sometimes sombody's lifestile or the way you are is not in line with the way society works

    Darren Islar: in that case it can be hard to make a connection and earn a proper living

    Strannik Zipper: That is true of anyone who has made a great contribution to the world

    Susi Alcott: I've told to my kind of people, that there is some hope still

    Susi Alcott: that just like the people 'back than' who was actors, didn't earn very well

    Susi Alcott: but today they can earn millions

    Strannik Zipper: Being someone who is different, who does not "fit in" can be a problem, but it can also be an opportunity that lots of people don't have

    Susi Alcott: I've thought that it'll be time, when people shall help back also my kind of people, that we could have good living to ourself

    Darren Islar: true, but most of those people who don't fit in are not very skilled in marketing

    Strannik Zipper: @Darren - right, but a few of them become good at it

    Darren Islar: and most of them are very sensitive, that makes it even harder

    Strannik Zipper: I had to learn to stop thinking about marketing as marketing, and more thinking about it as making offerings of love

    Darren Islar: of course Strannik, those will always be there, in any 'trade' there is

    Darren Islar: hmmmm, that's interesting Strannik

    Susi Alcott: well; what's the difference with marketing and offering ?

    Strannik Zipper: If you thnik "now I must do some marketing", I would rather do ANYTHING else but that

    Strannik Zipper: But if I think that I have the solution to someone elses problem, then I can get excited about findingt that person and solving their problem out of love

    Susi Alcott: well; I've done much such work too; sold books and makeups and such; that's marketing imo, but never I thought that I'll sell something, but that I advised people to get what they need

    Strannik Zipper: which is what good marketing actually is

    Aztlan Foss: you could put subliminal messages in the marketing to get your ideas out :-P

    Strannik Zipper: sometimes it means giving someone something of value for free

    Qt Core: i may be cynical but i always thought it was about advising people on what the should need

    Qt Core: they

    Susi Alcott: well; that's what I've been doing ab late 20 years; as free

    Darren Islar: :) QT

    Strannik Zipper: there is a marketing saying called the ATM (Automatic Teller Machine) principle: You cannot make a withdraw until you make a deposit

    Susi Alcott: and that's the way Qt how the business works out mostly; to which I was asked to

    Moon Fargis: :)

    Moon Fargis: teller is also a german word and means dishes :)

    Strannik Zipper: when you invest a bit of time in helping someone, then they are more likely to want your services

    Moon Fargis: or plates

    Darren Islar: I end up getting befriended with someone and asking no money :))

    Aztlan Foss: █ IⓉ'§ Mⓔ Bⓘtⓒhⓔ§ █

    Aztlan Foss: takes notes on marketing

    Aztlan Foss: oops triggered something on accident

    Strannik Zipper: hahaha

    Susi Alcott: so; when ppl get healed from illnesses, and I cannot know it's value to them giving a bill, they neither knows, so they imagine me to have all I need and can even say that the work of love must always be done as free...so; who's to pay me, cuz the only energy that heals is love...

    Darren Islar: money is a weird thing, people like to have it, but not spend it

    Darren Islar: that is actually not the idea behind 'trading'

    Susi Alcott: but cuz I use to help ppl so that they mostly needs my sereverses only once in their life time....so....

    Aztlan Foss: you make an interesting point darren

    Susi Alcott: they only send their friend to me ...

    Darren Islar: but we seem to have lost the concept of fair 'trading'

    Aztlan Foss: Susi, you've spent your life in the service of people. And there are several people like you. It's sad there aren't many places in the world for that.


    Susi Alcott: well...that also has the brighter side; there's not more people suffering for the same reasons that I

    Darren Islar: in 'older' cultures Susi, you would probably be valued for what you do

    Susi Alcott: well; the history tells of ourkind in Finnland this;

    Darren Islar: so people would be willing to 'pay' you in goods

    Strannik Zipper: I'm reading a book about a woman who wondered the world healing people, and never getting money for it, but she always had what she needed

    Darren Islar: like shamans

    Susi Alcott: mostly the poor woman living outside in a small cottage just and just having something to eat and drink; that has not much changed

    Aztlan Foss: yeah, I think part of the issue is that capitalism is designed to make people like her irrelevent

    Susi Alcott: well; Jesus didn't have even pockets in his robe, but I'm no Jesus

    Aztlan Foss: she'll be there when you need the kind of help she offers, but you'll never really be "in need" if you can just pay someone for that service and move on

    Darren Islar: right, it is an exception Strannik

    Darren Islar: a very strong one though

    Susi Alcott: and well...'cute' thing; I have not even offered 'for ages' anymore; still there's all the time new patients 'just appearing'

    Darren Islar: :)

    Strannik Zipper: I can think of two very positive examples of people who just wandered the world and did much good, never made any money, but never starved either

    Susi Alcott: but all of them comes to me 'in the name of friendship'....well...how could I help anybody I woudn't fell love, cuz it's the only genuin help....

    Strannik Zipper: 1. http://www.peacepilgrim.com/

    Strannik Zipper: 2. http://www.abbamoses.com/mothergav.html

    Susi Alcott: well; are you sure they had all needed when they had food enough ?

    Susi Alcott: imo that's a mythe

    Strannik Zipper: They both said that they did.

    Darren Islar: hey Yaku :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning everyone

    Strannik Zipper: Maybe sometimes you have to just tell people "If I helped you, please help me"

    Qt Core: Hi Yaku

    Moon Fargis: morning :)

    Susi Alcott: then they have not lived in Finland and had also family and so

    Susi Alcott: Good morning Yaku

    Strannik Zipper: They both wandered the world - maybe you have to wander out of Finland

    Susi Alcott: when just and just can get up and stay up for a while

    Darren Islar: well, from my own experience I can say that fatigue has become an issue

    Susi Alcott: which for SL has been my 'workshop' for few years now, but who's here offering any money cuz I dont sell anyting

    Darren Islar: being drained out by trying 'to match with the world'

    Susi Alcott: well; not much differnece to RL how it was

    Darren Islar: there is more to it, but it happens a lot to sensitive people

    Susi Alcott: (been hidden for ab 10 years atm)

    Strannik Zipper: @Darren, right

    Susi Alcott: ah yes; that's been since my childhood; trying to match with the world'

    Susi Alcott: Ur so right Darren

    Susi Alcott: but yet I have not found such world that I'de been able to fit; maybe I'm too stubbern

    Moon Fargis: hehe

    Darren Islar: some get born and know they are different and are very 'strong' in handeling that

    Susi Alcott: but cannot be anything else what I am

    Strannik Zipper: I stopped trying to "fit"

    Darren Islar: others try to fit in, and understand to late they can't

    Susi Alcott: or uncapable to do anything else but to be what is....

    Darren Islar: right Strannik

    Moon Fargis: everytime one acts against his true nature he suffers

    Darren Islar: right Moon

    Susi Alcott: well; I neither have not so exactly tried; but your expression fits to me; what I've always have tried is this;

    Strannik Zipper: I decided that it is more important to be in sync with the internal depths than with the shallows of the world

    Susi Alcott: to do my best way what I've given to do

    Darren Islar: well Strannik I strated that thought a long time ago, but also needed to make a living

    Strannik Zipper: Susi - that sounds good

    Darren Islar: giving me no time to get in sync with the internal depths

    Susi Alcott: but that's not enough in this world I live in

    Darren Islar: not to mention that my internal depts are a bit......eh....... well, let's say something that I have tried to avoid to encounter all my life, because it isn't pleasant

    Strannik Zipper: There is not necessarily a contradiction between being in sync with the internal depths and making a living - the actually complement each other

    Strannik Zipper: ah - well that is another challenge

    Darren Islar: my inner depts has been messed with


    Susi Alcott: (hears so clearly form Strannik that there is a man talking; man from USA)

    Susi Alcott: (hoping I dont missthing the gender)

    Susi Alcott: misthink

    Strannik Zipper: No mistake - I definitely am that!

    Strannik Zipper: and it colors my perspective as you see '-)

    Susi Alcott: *yes*

    Darren Islar: :)

    Susi Alcott: well; maybe there was the purpose that you heared my story; that you can see wider....?

    Darren Islar: there is some truth in it, you're 'product' Susi, would probably sell far more better in the States

    Strannik Zipper: the only thing that I'm really saying is that we tend to put our selves in boxes that limit our thinking, and sometimes it is necesary to break down the box

    Darren Islar: true Strannik

    Susi Alcott: I think that's mostly because people in states do understand that money is also needed in capitalistic world

    Strannik Zipper: try something totally new that scares us, but do it anyway

    Strannik Zipper: money is just a shorthand for applying our labor and creativity and love to solving someone's problem

    Moon Fargis: you learened that on a business seminat strannik ?

    Moon Fargis: seminar

    Moon Fargis: meaning the concept of lovingb usninness

    Strannik Zipper: You can probably find business seminars that teach something similar, but I had to discover a lot of this myself

    Darren Islar: it is a weird concept, thinking you dan solve someone's problem

    Strannik Zipper: I didn't want to be stuck in a capitalist or business box

    Darren Islar: *can

    Moon Fargis: ahyes

    Darren Islar: what I mean is, you can make the offer, but it is up to the other (society) to take it or not

    Moon Fargis: the worst end i see a human is when i imagine a man standing up at 6 dressing for work and going to bed at 8 waiting to work again

    Susi Alcott: well; occures to my mind one honest caller; he said this;

    Strannik Zipper: I have customers that don't want to deal with certain problems - the come to me and say "please make this headache go away" - I do, and they gratefully pay me for that

    Susi Alcott: at first he named few people that are healers, and couldn't help his wife, then he said; "If you Tenhikki can help her, I can never reward you "

    Susi Alcott: two days after he called and told how her wife had danced in happy feelings and mood, and said nothing about rewarding me

    Susi Alcott: he was not able to help me cuz he didn't want to give money

    Strannik Zipper: perhaps you should have spoken to the wife about a fee

    Darren Islar: in the States it is more normal to pay people for such things then it is in Europe

    Susi Alcott: that's the base reason; ¨¨the more rich person I've helped, the more it's costed to me

    Darren Islar: it is also more normal to pursue it

    Susi Alcott: never had earthly connection to the wife

    Qt Core: time to go, bye all

    Darren Islar: bye QT

    Susi Alcott: have good day Qt :)****

    Strannik Zipper: it is often true that the best paying clients are the least problem and the most difficult ones are the ones that don't want to pay

    Darren Islar: money is a different concept in the States then it is down here

    Moon Fargis: bye qt

    Strannik Zipper: Cheers QT

    Darren Islar: especially in the northern part of Europe

    Susi Alcott: indeed

    Susi Alcott: it's something that one can give for traveling and fancy clothings and such, but not to give to a person who helps with love and understanding

    Strannik Zipper: And apparently different than Southern Europe

    Darren Islar: yes

    Susi Alcott: well; about that I donno

    Strannik Zipper: Could you say that Northern Europeans only want to pay for something "tangible"?

    Darren Islar: and the northern part of Europe is very proud of it, because now it turns out that we have the strongest economies

    Susi Alcott: but I know that in Japan they give money to them monks that comes to give blessing and such

    Aztlan Foss: bye everyone

    Darren Islar: but that is because we don't spend

    Strannik Zipper: Bye Aztlan

    Moon Fargis: bye

    Darren Islar: bye Aztlan

    Moon Fargis: ahyes

    Susi Alcott: indeed Strannik

    Susi Alcott: indeed that

    Moon Fargis: theres a different mind in japan, theres a little koan about this, let me see if i find it

    Susi Alcott: have nice day Aztlan

    Darren Islar: well, they don't do that in Europe :)

    Moon Fargis: While Seietsu was the master of Engaku in Kamakura he required larger quarters, since those in which he was teaching were overcrowded. Umeza Seibei a merchant of Edo, decided to donate five hundred pieces of gold called ryo toward the construction of a more commodious school. This money he brought to the teacher. Seisetsu said: "All right. I will take it." Umezu gave Seisetsu the sack of gold, but he was dissatisfied with the attitude of the teacher. One might live a whole year on three ryo, and the merchant had not even been thanked for five hundred. "In that sack are five hundred ryo," hinted Umeza. "You told me that before," replied Seisetsu. "Even if I am a wealthy merchant, five hundred ryo is a lot of money," said Umezu. "Do you want me to thank you for it?" asked Seisetsi. "You ought to," replied Umeza. "Why should I?" inquired Seisetsu. "The giver should be thankful."


    Moon Fargis: hi katrin

    Strannik Zipper: Susi - you may need to move to Italy ;-)

    Darren Islar: :) Moon

    Strannik Zipper: @Moon - nice!

    Darren Islar: I wouldn't do that right now :)

    Susi Alcott: well; when I was 'called' to many countries, I realized even more clearly, that even I donno all of them reasons, they exist, that my base is here

    Susi Alcott: and each of those calles was based on that 'here you would have all you need; including money enough'

    Susi Alcott: well; my next life shall be in USA :)***

    Moon Fargis: lol

    Strannik Zipper: Things are shaky here as well, but probably better

    Moon Fargis: well my friends also my time runs out atm, was nice talk today;)

    Strannik Zipper: Still, when recession hits, people stop spending much on intangibles

    Susi Alcott: there's also much poverty in USA; donno where there I'll be born

    Darren Islar: bye Moon :)

    Strannik Zipper: Gassho, Moon

    Darren Islar: true Susi

    Moon Fargis: _/!\_

    Darren Islar: bye Susi :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone whos leaving

    Strannik Zipper: Susi - this is a koan that only you can solve

    Susi Alcott: wishing good time to you all; and Strannik; the peace of mind and the feeling of peace I have inside; no money can buy it....

    Susi Alcott: ah ok

    Strannik Zipper: excellent!

    Susi Alcott: pls share

    Strannik Zipper: I mean your situation - is the koan that only you can solve

    Susi Alcott: ah ...ok...well...tried all I can know and what's advised such that I've felt to be reasonable...and yes; I stil have hope too

    Susi Alcott: I also claim, that if that much would be on all of the people's own hand to solve, there wouldn't be any kind of starvation in the world...yet; there's even worse that I've experienced

    Susi Alcott: /\

    Susi Alcott: _/!\_

    Susi Alcott: be well and love yourself :)***

    Strannik Zipper: too true!

    Strannik Zipper: cheers!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone

    Strannik Zipper: bye!

    Darren Islar: bye

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