2010.09.03 07:00 - this Way of Being with the Boat

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza, who was joined for this session (that follows the time session) by Eden, Hana, Bert, Bleu, Fef, Bruce, Lucinda, and Aphrodite. 

    This was a profound session in which we shared souls, forms, helplessness, sorrow, joy, dreams, and a boat. 


    Pema Pera: So interesting to be in a totally new environment in RL and find the same old friends here in SL
    Pema Pera: the magic of SL
    Eden Haiku: Bye Maxine,
    Maxine Walden: magic...
    Liza Deischer: going too
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Liza Deischer: see you :)
    Hana Furlough: bye, maxine, liza
    Eden Haiku: Bye bye Liza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone who would like to make a mad dash to the door
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: have a good day, Liza.
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Maxine.
    Fefonz Quan: bye Maxine, Liza
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: What an interesting session
    Eliza Madrigal: There were quite a few angles to pick up on there

    Eden Haiku: Hana I have been wanting to tell you how delighted I am to see your avatar appearance. It reminds me of my avatar's childhood :))
    Eliza Madrigal: me too :)
    Hana Furlough: why thank you
    Fefonz Quan keeps his mouth shut
    Eliza Madrigal: haha Fef
    Eden Haiku: Is it attachment to the past you think Bleu ? Curious about your fisrt avatar Bleu, which one did you pick?
    Eliza Madrigal: Fef do you miss your ponytail too? :)
    Hana Furlough: lol
    Bleu Oleander: funny Eden, I picked a male avatar by mistake
    Fefonz Quan was opining to the fact his avatar hardly changed since day 1...
    Eden Haiku: Oh, I see fefonz first incarnated as the pony tail girl? How funny!
    Fefonz Quan: pointing*
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, you shopped for your outfit on the first day?
    Bleu Oleander: and spent many hours trying to fix it until I realized how easy you could change it
    Fefonz Quan: nope, no shoping what so ever
    Eden Haiku: When I first looged in Second Life in my twin Rrose, I also chose a male avatar, not knowing it was a male., The warrior one with flotaing hair. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: The first thing I bought was tatoos.. then added them to the little polka dotted dress... haha
    Bleu Oleander: yes, I did the same thing Eden :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that suggests a flavor for odd juxtopositions
    Bleu Oleander: but in the process I learned alot about designing avatars
    Eden Haiku: Remembers dancing on indie music in a fancy Sl club in the polka dot dress and being given lots of clothes by girls thinking I should change ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: You do seem really comfortable changing skins Bleu... like working with clay?
    Eden Haiku: And now you are creating so beautiful looks Bleu.:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Eden
    Bleu Oleander: took me a long time to find my avatar's "soul"
    Fefonz Quan: "Do you remember, dancing on the floor in moonlit nights"
    Eden Haiku: We can tell you are an artist by your visual consistency Bleu.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Bleu about the "soul" -- Not sure I've found it all yet -- the fish helps.
    Bleu Oleander: it's just a matter of being comfortable with the medium
    Eden Haiku: Hope you are keeping records of all that to show in one of your RL exhibits Bleu.
    Bleu Oleander: have thought of that Eden

    Eliza Madrigal: I stay rather the same, because I couldn't possibly keep up with the internal shape shifting that goes on in my soul..
    Fefonz Quan: (did you mean the Sole fish Bruce? ;-)
    Hana Furlough: smiles at Eliza
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
    Bruce Mowbray: no, but that's a new perspective, surely.
    Eliza Madrigal: Cirque de sole
    Eden Haiku: Ah, that's very interesting Eliza. Say more?
    Bruce Mowbray: I was thinking about T.S. Eliot's "I shall go to prepare a face to meet the faces that I meet...."
    Eden Haiku: Cirque du Soleil Eliza! Ahah...
    Bruce Mowbray: (from The Love Song of J.Alfred Prufrock."

    When reading the next line I remembered a conversation with my son on the way to school this day, about creatures so funny that if you weren't looking directly at them you would think the idea of them ridiculous and impossible...  

    Eliza Madrigal: It seems that from moment to moment, movement to movement new creatures are changing and emerging...
    Eden Haiku: And you ended up with a bermuda, a black t-shirt and a blue fish Bruce. What does it tell about our faces?
    Eliza Madrigal: suppose a bit like a yoga... this stance that stance, this being that being...
    Hana Furlough: Is it hard to let go without holding on?
    Bruce Mowbray: The whole avatar (clothes, shape, skin, and fish) are the "face" that I have prepared to meet all of your "faces" here.
    Eden Haiku: Ah, witnessing your being dancing Eliza
    Fefonz Quan likes the fish a lot
    Eliza Madrigal: Hana, wow...
    Bleu Oleander: have you tried other "faces" Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: Blub likes to be appreciated, thanks.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Eden
    Bleu Oleander: brb
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, this is Bruce's fourth incarnation. . . I have photo records of all the others.
    Eliza Madrigal: I made a note during the session, on a tablet near me... "What about wanting to pin down and not being able to?"
    Eden Haiku: [7:11] Hana Furlough: Is it hard to let go without holding on?
    Fefonz Quan: hana, in a miriculous way, letting go, when done, is not hard mostly
    Eden Haiku: Holding on to the letting go?
    Hana Furlough: That is my practice, so I guess on some level I know that. But it's the feeling of letting go and not wanting to that is hard
    Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Fef -- Indeed, letting go can be the lightest, easiest, and most natural thing to do.
    Hana Furlough: especially when it comes to an especially majestic ideal
    Eden Haiku: Picturing Eliza's fast moving selves spreading into thin air like a rainbow :))
    Eliza Madrigal: mm, nods... which speaks to 'faith' Hana, yes

    Fefonz Quan: so you say that in fact, what stops us from letting go is that down deep, we don't want to.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Eden
    Eliza Madrigal: But don't you ever feel like you want to be tethered and can't be...
    Fefonz Quan: (could you explain what you meant by "tethered"?)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, we talk a bit about letting go of limitations, linear timelines, etc
    Hana Furlough: yes, Eliza, exactly : )
    Eden Haiku: To be tethered: to be chained, to be restrained. (looking up Webster). Is it the wild woman in you who wants to be tethered Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: but what of that sense of no lines.... that 'freedom' or openness at times can feel limiting itself...
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, interesting question Eden
    Hana Furlough: it is because freedom is so abstract?
    Eden Haiku: Ah, because of the feeling of disorientation maybe, no limits, no frames, no borders, no grounding system? I can relate to that.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes exactly
    Hana Furlough: yes, no grounding system
    Eliza Madrigal: I can't imagine that the eagle was ever flying healthily and openly and wanting to be chained down...
    Hana Furlough: !
    Fefonz Quan: Yes, we are frightened of freedom
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    Eden Haiku: Had a few times the impression I was going crazy or very depressed as I was doing the experiments.
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting Eden....  'unraveling'
    Fefonz Quan: like dropping the floor below our feet, isn't it Eden?
    Eden Haiku: Frightened of freedom, very true Fefonz, but why are we?
    Bruce Mowbray: Erich Fromm's book: "Escape from Freedom"
    Hana Furlough: because we are afraid of what we truly are

    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Luci.
    Eden Haiku: Yes, dropping the floor, that must have been how you felt last week Bruce.
    Hana Furlough: Hi Luci
    Fefonz Quan: because we feel safe when nothing moves, all stays familiar, the same
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi All!
    Eden Haiku: But then it was very impressive to discover how much lightness and even joy you found through it.
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, my experience with Pema's assignment was totally positive -- In fact, it was downright miraculous.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :) Nice to see you
    Fefonz Quan: and when limitations are down, the sense of '"I" feels intimidated
    Bleu Oleander: need to go .... bye everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden and Bruce, yes.... it is as though in that unraveling comes luminosity...
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Bleu
    Eden Haiku: Ah yes, we hold on to the familiar, the safe even the pain is safer :))
    Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :)
    Hana Furlough: Bye, Bleu

    Lucinda Lavender: Nice to see you all...Really enjoying chapter 4...
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps our conditioning throughout childhood build the notion that we'll always need those structures of authority and containment -- in order to know who we are and to be safe.
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a partial note of this morning's session if you like Lucinda...
    Eliza Madrigal: we talked a bit about 'faith'
    Eden Haiku: [7:21] Fefonz Quan: and when limitations are down, the sense of '"I" feels intimidated
    Lucinda Lavender: thank you...
    Bruce Mowbray: but I think those childhood needs pass away -- and even the child already has glimmerings of freedom. . . transcending the limits placed upon her/him.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll give you one of this session so far too... "Why are we afraid of freedom?"
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...great

    Eden Haiku: remembers her first fireworks when she was 5, lying on a blanket in the dark with her parents and siblings.
    Eden Haiku: My sense of "I" vanished, I was the soul of the universe.
    Bruce Mowbray: because we are addicted to (conditioned to think we need) contraints. . . and have never really experienced freedom -- so we're intimidated --- until we DO experience it.
    Fefonz Quan remembere childhood fireworks too, very exciting :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful image, Eden.
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, yes
    Eden Haiku: Thanks.
    Fefonz Quan: yes, great image Eden
    Hana Furlough: very nice
    Bertram Jacobus: hi everybody ! ... :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Some years the trees at the end of the street would block the view of the fireworks at the school... fun to remember moving around and around to get a clearer view
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bert :)
    Hana Furlough: Hi Bert
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bert.
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's how my soul feels, moving into all those positions ;-)

    Eden Haiku: The beauty and the novelty of it, the unknown made me loose all my landmarks, But then I could experiment the freedom because I felt safe, being surrounded by the warm bodies of my family on the same blanket in the unknown park in downtown.

    Eliza Madrigal: wants an eagle's eye, and a fish's eye and salamander eye all at once :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh! Eden I feel that... beautiful!
    Bertram Jacobus: ty for the note eliza ! :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Children today are learning a whole new paradigm -- global language and connection: texting, relationships beyond geography, and access to information that we never could dream of. . .
    Eden Haiku: Suspects you have all these Eliza :)
    Bruce Mowbray: so, their "moving around for a better view" is like a viewpoint on steroids.
    Eden Haiku: Ah yes, Bruce, A completely new world.


    Hana Furlough: (sneaks out to start the day: thank you all!)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Eden and hahah Bruce
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: like that Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite :)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, perhaps the future generations will have a whole new paradign of "freedom, " also.
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice thought
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi aphrodite
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi all.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm still rezzing
    Bertram Jacobus: hello aphrodite
    Fefonz Quan: I suspect, Bruce, all those words and internet languages might also present new kinds of mind prisons
    Fefonz Quan: replacing running in the field or hugging with chatting and seeing images on a screen
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, I've never had a cell phone -- because they seem to me like electronic "leashes." -- and I do not want to be tethered by one.
    Eliza Madrigal: anything can be that Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    Bruce Mowbray: There are psychological disorders that prevent some people from leaving their own homes...
    Bruce Mowbray: or leaving their own villages.

    Eden Haiku: Being part of a group like PaB enables us to experiment with an ease I would think. We have a basis to return to after our wild venturings into consciousness. I appreciate this aspect very much. Being a guru's disciple for 9 years and then leaving that practice, I felt very isolated for many years in these matters of exploring spirituality even though I maintainmed many friendships with people who are still with the guru.

    Fefonz Quan: (which guru may i ask?)
    Eden Haiku: I rather not say Fefonz, Indian guru, a woman. :)
    Bruce Mowbray agrees absolutely with Eden. (especially being a hermit living so far away from "spiritual" resources in RL.
    Eden Haiku: And I apperciate the lay aspect of PaB too.
    Fefonz Quan: i see. but it was a kind of hindu or budhist method?)
    Fefonz Quan: yes, the lay aspect is very precious and rare
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed Eden
    Eden Haiku: HIndu, I reconnected with tibetan buddhism after I let the hindu group.
    Eliza Madrigal: It is crucial
    Bruce Mowbray: Ironically, I have NO friends in RL who have the slightest interest in SL -- and none of them have ever been here. . . even though they realize it has enhanced my own life enormously.
    Eden Haiku: And then we have roots and sonars into our own religions and cultures and that is very precious too.

    Fefonz Quan: and as pema said in the chapter, in this world of riligious vs. secular, 'lay' conciousness (or spirituality) is not easily found
    Eden Haiku: No it is not, I agree.
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes... I think one of the *most* refreshing things about pab is that there is genuine regard for various paradigms...
    Eliza Madrigal: not just saying that because it seems nice
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Same for me Bruce, regarding the interest for SL. They all say they will try but then they don't :)
    Eliza Madrigal: we explore together and discover 'first hand'
    Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Eliza, , , amazing diversity and respect for diverse viewpoints.
    Lucinda Lavender: I have not quite finished the chapter but I appreciate the sameness we find in our differentness
    Fefonz Quan: Me too Bruce, though i got to SL when i met Pema in RL :)
    Bruce Mowbray: You are fortunate there, Fef.
    Eliza Madrigal: taste of equanimity, perhaps
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    Fefonz Quan: very much so Bruce :) not to mention spending a year by his office :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Eden Haiku: Oh, that's fascinating to hear that fefonz. Pema seems to have been able to convince many people to incarnate in Second Life. Bleu as well, Genesis, a few others.
    Fefonz Quan: Yes, if SL would give commisions, pema would be a honored recruiter :)

    Bruce Mowbray: Imagine, then, the isolation of rural southern Ohio --- no colleges near, no one practicing meditation, no one remotely interested in the things we talk about here in every session. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: So, Pab and SL in general, are tremendous resources for me.
    Bertram Jacobus: how could you live without pab bruce !? ;-) before i mean ... :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Don't the Friends provide some support Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: I really don't know how -- mostly reading and meditating on my own.

    Eden Haiku: And then he is trying to lure us avatars to incarnate in RL retreats :)) And with success. Yaku got to his first retreat when he was just a newbie guardian I think....
    Eliza Madrigal: there is definitely a gap... SL is definitely a taste first phenomenon because hearing about it second hand doesn't seem interesting
    Bertram Jacobus: you´re fitting so perfectly in here ... :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Eden
    Bruce Mowbray: but SL has only been around for 7 years -- so at some time we ALL managed to get along with out it.
    Eliza Madrigal tries to hypnotize Eden to lure her to Nova Scotia next year, or Washington...
    Eliza Madrigal: :::digging for cat eyes::::
    Bruce Mowbray is grateful for Bert's kind words.
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :::hm... disorganized soul today.... finding wolf paws, squirrel tail...
    Eden Haiku: Oh Washington? That's new....Your magic seems to be working Eliza. When is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Maxine is organizing that one
    Bruce Mowbray: I really appreciate the thought earlier -- that our avatars need time to "find their souls."
    Eden Haiku: Oh Washington state...I thought you meant DC.

    Eliza Madrigal: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Retreats/2011-09_Seattle%2c_USA

    Lucinda Lavender: this is a pretty exciting idea...
    Bertram Jacobus: "but" in my mind is something like : "seems to be for all pabers - they fit so perfect" (!) ... hm ... :-)
    Eden Haiku: Yes, time to find our avatar's soul :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) dreamy retreat perhaps Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: would love to gather with others...

    Eliza Madrigal: It has a parallel (that idea) to the reclaiming of rejected selves discussed a few weeks ago, perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: as does gathering with others :))))

    Eden Haiku: You also attended a retreat Bertram, that's true. Did you like it?
    Bruce Mowbray: here it is from earlier:
    Bruce Mowbray: [07:08] Bleu Oleander: took me a long time to find my avatar's "soul"
    Fefonz Quan recommends the RL retreats wholeheartedly

    Eden Haiku: I'm sure I will make my way to one but I still have fears lingering from my ahsrams days and I need to pace myself and go through these on my own time.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, of course Eden
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i liked it very much eden - sry telephone here ...

    Fefonz Quan: I can say, compared to vipassana retreats, that PaB ones are more loose and 'free' in a way

    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Eden about some fears of meeting folks in RL retreats.
    Eliza Madrigal: It sounds as though you are working those through.... the fears. I wonder what you have discovered and would like to hear more about that
    Eden Haiku: Do we do onigokkos during retreats ? :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Agree, Fef, good description
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think paB retreats give everyone enough space
    Eliza Madrigal: Wol and I planned to last one Eden, but it didn't quite fit the moment :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So there is time for that 'first'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray was thinking that if he'd gone to the Nova Scotia retreat, he'd have slept in the woods alone every night.
    Fefonz Quan: (just bring the pink tails Eden :))
    Eliza Madrigal: there was a little spot out there... someone doing just that :) (Bruce)
    Bruce Mowbray: good to know that, Eliza.

    Eden Haiku: What I have discovered about the fears Eliza. It's mainly a fear of myself I suppose. I'm very much like a chameleon and I can loose myself way too easily in others viewpoints.
    Aphrodite Macbain: fear of losing yourself, perhaps

    Eliza Madrigal: It wasn't one from our group... but there was lots of space for wandering and to be on one's own, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Eden, rich ground there....
    Fefonz Quan nods, it is a familiar point to pay attention to and be careful
    Bertram Jacobus: hi aoro
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adoro :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    adoro Rhapsody: hi folks
    Bertram Jacobus: bye yaku
    Fefonz Quan: By Yaku, have a great weekend
    Eden Haiku: Bye Yaku
    Bruce Mowbray: good day, adoro.
    Aphrodite Macbain: by Yaku Hello Adoro
    adoro Rhapsody: good day bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: Someone else described this sensation.... of not really existing as such, until drawn upon
    Bruce Mowbray: good bye Yaku.
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :) (belatedly)
    Aphrodite Macbain: until drawn upon Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, like... hm, nothing there until a question is asked...

    Bruce Mowbray: @ Eliza -- I also experienced this sense of non-person until others provoked it from me -- but my practice with the Four Immeasurables complete changed that.
    Aphrodite Macbain: the 4 immeasurables?
    Eden Haiku: Remind us Bruce, please.
    Bruce Mowbray: yes -- in Buddhist practice; Compassion, Loving-kindness, Equanimity, and Joy.
    Eliza Madrigal: It (not-existing as such) is maybe liberating in many ways ... but perhaps some finer definitioning is helpful...
    Bertram Jacobus: (phoecall "ready") ... :-)
    Fefonz Quan: (I'll make a silent leave - bye all, and may you enjoy happiness and joy :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Be Happy Fef :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Have a grand day, Fef. and Thanks you.
    Eden Haiku: Bye Fefonz, have a nice week end :))
    adoro Rhapsody: bye fef
    Aphrodite Macbain: Good by FeF Thank you
    Lucinda Lavender: bye Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Bertram Jacobus: bye fef ! *wave*
    Eliza Madrigal: Bruce, if you have a little while, I'd love to hear more about that 'complete turn around'
    Bruce Mowbray: OK. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: I can try to explain....
    Bruce Mowbray: now?
    Aphrodite Macbain: sure
    Bertram Jacobus: yes plz
    Bruce Mowbray: or privately later?
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, if you can
    Eden Haiku: Have to leave also. Have a great week end everyone and thanks for the conversation ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: It is very interesting :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Eden
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eden, thank you. Wonderful weekend to you
    Bruce Mowbray: goodbye, Eden. Thank you!
    adoro Rhapsody: bye eden
    Bertram Jacobus: bye eden ...
    Lucinda Lavender: Bye Eden
    Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm. . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: and peace in the midst of hard love work :)
    Bruce Mowbray: well, for example, when one sees in the media people suffering -- in every conceivable way..
    Bruce Mowbray: from natural disasters like Haiti and tsunamis... to mental illness, homelessness, etc.
    Bruce Mowbray: There is this overwhelming sense of personal helplessness.
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh yes
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: yes certainly can be
    Bruce Mowbray: In fact, I would avoid the bad news on TV because of my sense of helplessness to do anything significant about it.
    adoro Rhapsody: overwhelming
    Bruce Mowbray: overwhelming emotionally, yes, adoro.
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Bertram Jacobus: the karmapa, once asked about such, answered : there are beings which can help directly. others could pray, make good wishes for them ...

    adoro Rhapsody: not just watching the news but helping a person
    Bruce Mowbray: So, I then began practicing the Four Immeasurables and realized that I could help -- right from my own home.

    Eliza Madrigal: the wishes may be more(most) direct in some cases
    Bruce Mowbray: Tonglen ---
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes

    Aphrodite Macbain: I have just learned that a very good friend is dying of cancer and I have no idea what to do
    adoro Rhapsody: not only giving money ?
    Bruce Mowbray: Check into the practice of Tonglen if you do not already know about it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, how difficult Aphrodite (( ))
    Bertram Jacobus: both is good : to help metally and physically - what ever we are able to do i think
    Bruce Mowbray: I was no longer overwhelmed by feelings of helplessness. . .

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Eliza- I feel so helpless in being able to help every thing I could say seems trite

    Eliza Madrigal: My feeling about this is that we can't always find 'something to give' but we can 'be' with them
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza - and that is what Aph can "do" for her friend.
    Bruce Mowbray: and Tonglen gives us a method to do that.
    Aphrodite Macbain: not sure how to "be" with someone who is in Toronto while I'm in Vancouver
    Eliza Madrigal: this is the sense in which tonglen and 'not existing as such' is the same thing... nothing in between the sharing of support...
    Eliza Madrigal: including distance
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bruce. Is Tonglen a person?
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph, you can "be" with absolutely anyone - anywhere in the world.
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Bruce Mowbray: Being totally transcends geography.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Tonglen is a lovely practice... can help us to cope with that helpless feeling that gets in the way of light shining through perhaps
    Bruce Mowbray: totally agrees with Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: there are lots of methods though. What is yours like, Bruce?

    Aphrodite Macbain: It may help me but will it help her?

    Eliza Madrigal: sorry bell!
    Bruce Mowbray: Folks, this has been wonderful Truly. But the insurance adjuster is due to arrive at any moment - and I need to get dressed.
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you all.
    Bertram Jacobus: tonglen is a practise in which you take the difficulties from others and give all the best - mentally aph ...
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Bruce- you were in the middle of explaining
    Bruce Mowbray: and good bye for now.
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    Bertram Jacobus: bye bruce ...
    Lucinda Lavender: bye Bruce:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Good bye, everyone.
    Eliza Madrigal: What will help her, is that 'nothing in between' you and she ...presence, support...
    Eliza Madrigal: but we can never define what help is for another person I think...

    Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps I'll send her some poetry

    adoro Rhapsody: ok i wanna leave again
    Eliza Madrigal: beautiful idea
    adoro Rhapsody: bye all
    Aphrodite Macbain: when I was going though cancer treatment a friend sent me a poem a week
    Bertram Jacobus: and for sure, our minds can move things, real and physically (!) - you can see it at the eeg for example - so ... it´s a real happening which our mind does (!) ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye adoro :)
    Lucinda Lavender: bye adoro
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so you are in a unique position to 'be there' for your friend Aphrodite, having gone through the fears and treatments

    Bertram Jacobus: eliza : it is said, that our motivation would be a great angle. so if we want to help - that should help ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah Bruce, yes I 'believe' it does
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bert
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, bs...
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. I'm so glad I have all of you to help me process this
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: i wish you the very best for it aph !

    Eliza Madrigal: Does it feel a bit like watching that boat Aphrodite?
    Lucinda Lavender: remembering the boat...
    Aphrodite Macbain: OMG Eliza absolutely.
    Aphrodite Macbain: What a perfect comparison. a helpless watcher

    Eliza Madrigal: tonglen, now that bruce brings it up, is a kind of way to be in the boat and on the shore at once

    Aphrodite Macbain: I watched about fighting the current, trying to turn around, being stuck. and there was I helplessly watrching from the shore
    Aphrodite Macbain: like watching disasters on TV
    Eliza Madrigal: totally with your friend, and totally 'on the outside' giving support
    Aphrodite Macbain: but when it's a close friend it becomes more acute
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Lucinda Lavender: I know what you mean there...
    Lucinda Lavender: it is close
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes Luci
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: have you experienced this?
    Lucinda Lavender: the friends we have been with we have much connection with
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: dear pabers - i´ll leave for now - ty all for our sharing ! may all beings be happy please !
    Lucinda Lavender: recently lost 3 friends
    Eliza Madrigal: Be Happy Bert :) Thank you
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Bert. Bye for now
    Lucinda Lavender: just in the last month
    Eliza Madrigal: three friends Lucinda... oh :(
    Bertram Jacobus: ty ! ...
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh Lucinda!
    Lucinda Lavender: coworker, conductor, old friend
    Aphrodite Macbain: That must have been very hard
    Eliza Madrigal: parts of us, entire 'us's are perhaps lost with them, in a very real way
    Lucinda Lavender: and I am stretching my view...
    Aphrodite Macbain: How did you deal with such a tragedy?
    Lucinda Lavender: I do it rather internally but also by conversing with others
    Lucinda Lavender: I have had a friend or two to listen while I recall all the connections and their meaning
    Aphrodite Macbain: It has made me so aware of the fragility and preciousness of life
    Eliza Madrigal: lovely

    Lucinda Lavender: holding the connections as beyond time or something...I am still in process
    Lucinda Lavender: appreciating

    Aphrodite Macbain: talking and listening. Yes. I hope you feel comfortable talking about them here
    Eliza Madrigal: timelessness as restoration, in a sense
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. It keeps our friends with us
    Lucinda Lavender: yes I do and there have been moments of great support
    Lucinda Lavender: I think time as a rest in now
    Lucinda Lavender: time...as rest ..in now
    Eliza Madrigal: your being so musical lucinda, 'as a rest' seems so appropriate!
    Lucinda Lavender: aha
    Eliza Madrigal: :)


    Eliza Madrigal: may I share something? During the time session this morning something welled up very strongly with me and I felt to update my report with a poem/song I wrote 22 years go...
    Lucinda Lavender: wonderful
    Eliza Madrigal: at 18 I was all zeal and no knowledge... but sincere...
    Eliza Madrigal: still, there were essential moments and I think this was one...
    Eliza Madrigal: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2010%2f%2f09%2f%2f03%3a_Reports/2010%2f%2f09%2f%2f1%3a_Eliza_Madrigal

    Lucinda Lavender: lovely! This is where I want to share what had been floating into my mind as we talked of Aphro's boat!
    Eliza Madrigal: I hadn't intended to share it really... just have it there...
    Eliza Madrigal listens intently
    Aphrodite Macbain: How beautiful Thank you Eliza.I think I'll go now and think about what you have both said. I really appreciate your caring and your poetry.

    Lucinda Lavender: After the death of my mother I dreamed of a boat of singing men which I would join on to that would take shelter under a bridge...
    Eliza Madrigal: Aph, maybe hang just a sec... or perhaps the report later if you must go...
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh no. I'll wait for that.
    Eliza Madrigal: ::shivers::: hearing your dream Lucinda
    Aphrodite Macbain: Please continue
    Lucinda Lavender: I think that we have this way of being with the boat
    Lucinda Lavender: for many stories...
    Lucinda Lavender: listening to the dream image was so helpful for me...
    Eliza Madrigal: this is very powerful imagery... feel 'held' by it...
    Eliza Madrigal: cradled
    Lucinda Lavender: there is also a book Aphro for your friend...Called She Who Dreams....by Wanda Burch
    Aphrodite Macbain thinks about taking sheltering under a bridge
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: or over... troubled waters...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: this is the story of listening to dreams while solving the issues of health
    Lucinda Lavender: in my dream it was a storm
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'll look for the book. Was it published recently?
    Lucinda Lavender: in the last 10 probably
    Eliza Madrigal makes note
    Aphrodite Macbain: a storm is a good metaphor for trouble
    Lucinda Lavender: weather
    Eliza Madrigal: during treatments someone is often slowed down enough to allow all kinds of learning to come to the surface...

    Hhurricanes make a very big mess while everyone must simply wait it out...

    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: things they've put aside their whole lives
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. I found that as I lay in bed much of the time
    Eliza Madrigal: forced rest in some way... tethering
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. being in the moment
    Aphrodite Macbain: when the future is murky
    Lucinda Lavender: allowing some multidimensional work to go on...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: forced also, to get out of the way
    Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean it isn't agonizing
    Eliza Madrigal: or can't be... surrender
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wish you two could talk to my friend. Her name is Kate
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for sharing her name Aphrodite
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: cancer is in her breasts, lungs and brain
    Lucinda Lavender: ah;(
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh my
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think I'm going to go now. I feel a little weepy
    Eliza Madrigal: we can 'be' with her... are now in a sense
    Eliza Madrigal: yes me too
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: lovely that you can be there for her
    Aphrodite Macbain: bye dear ones
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
    Lucinda Lavender: and bye Aphro and peace...
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Lucinda, for sharing so much. This seemed timely conversation
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Time doing work :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I think so
    Eliza Madrigal: I appreciate you very much, and should go now too
    Lucinda Lavender: appreciating you also...in time
    Eliza Madrigal: :) (( Lucinda ))) bye for now

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