2010.09.07 13:00 - E-ducated learning


    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.


    Mickorod Renard: hi Adoro
    adoro Rhapsody: hi mickorod
    Mickorod Renard: quiet here at the moment
    Mickorod Renard: I think many go to dreams
    adoro Rhapsody: indeed
    adoro Rhapsody: sharing silence
    adoro Rhapsody: can make friends too
    Mickorod Renard: yes, quite nice in a way
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Mickorod Renard: it was my first day back at work after the school hols
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: u r a teacher ?
    Mickorod Renard: so a bit of peace is well
    Mickorod Renard: stricktly speaking no
    adoro Rhapsody: me too havy day
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    adoro Rhapsody: so formaly no teacher but in practice real teacher ?
    Mickorod Renard: he he ,,yes
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: i work at dutch ministery of education
    adoro Rhapsody: we fund schools
    Mickorod Renard: I am short of certain qualifications,,but I am technicaly blessed and that works well in design and technology
    adoro Rhapsody: so i like education
    Mickorod Renard: nice,,money is everything in schools now
    adoro Rhapsody: no matter
    adoro Rhapsody: nothing else matters
    adoro Rhapsody: sorry
    adoro Rhapsody: i think other things are more important than money
    adoro Rhapsody: are u jakuzzi too ?
    adoro Rhapsody: and placebo ?
    Mickorod Renard: me too,,but unfortunatly working in an expensive area, money does have a bearing
    adoro Rhapsody: ok money is easy to have
    Mickorod Renard: a jakuzzi and placebo?
    adoro Rhapsody: that was gardian yesterday
    adoro Rhapsody: he had two avatars
    Mickorod Renard: oh I see
    adoro Rhapsody: of its own and he looked like you
    adoro Rhapsody: also in black and no few hair
    Mickorod Renard: it will be a nice day when money doesnt have such a control on things
    arabella Ella: Hiya!
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya
    adoro Rhapsody: hi ara
    Mickorod Renard: I am back doing the guardian job for this session
    arabella Ella: oh ok
    adoro Rhapsody: ok thats nice
    arabella Ella: great
    arabella Ella: welcome back!
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou
    adoro Rhapsody: what brings us here ?
    arabella Ella: what brings you here adoro?
    Mickorod Renard: I find that here has become a sort of family
    adoro Rhapsody: i like to meet ppl as u
    arabella Ella: that's nice
    adoro Rhapsody: discussing here gives me peacve ofmind
    adoro Rhapsody: peace
    adoro Rhapsody: inner peace
    arabella Ella: yes it is a safe and trusting community here
    Mickorod Renard: I found that too
    adoro Rhapsody: so that makes outer peace too
    adoro Rhapsody: according to TAO
    arabella Ella: yes and outer peace is conducive to inner peace i think
    arabella Ella: for me at least
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Mickorod Renard: also, it was nice to find that other people have similar thoughts, that they divulge. in Rl most people are very reserved about their thoughts
    adoro Rhapsody: i like the way we can communicate here
    adoro Rhapsody: with mutual respect
    arabella Ella: yes generally most people are very open minded too and open to new ideas
    Mickorod Renard: yes, that is very interesting, and comforting
    adoro Rhapsody: that makes it innovative here
    adoro Rhapsody: i like to communicate wild new ideas
    Mickorod Renard: I do too
    arabella Ella: oh i would enjoy listening to a few and discussing them if you wish - both of you!
    adoro Rhapsody: or philosophing
    arabella Ella nods
    adoro Rhapsody: means exchange thoughts
    arabella Ella: come on Mick and adoro, any provocative ideas to discuss today?
    adoro Rhapsody: maybe the conservative attitude of most teachers
    Mickorod Renard: I have a thought
    Mickorod Renard: should i air it?
    arabella Ella: oh adoro do you mean we could discuss the conservative attitude of teachers? not a bad topic at all ... and Mick?
    adoro Rhapsody: ok go ahead mick
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Mickorod Renard: clears his throat
    arabella Ella: if we have two topics we could choose depending on majority decision maybe?
    adoro Rhapsody: maybe
    Mickorod Renard: well,,if the end of the world happened
    adoro Rhapsody: and u make the majority ara
    adoro Rhapsody: yes if..
    arabella Ella: LOL ... yes I do ... maybe
    adoro Rhapsody: apocalypse now ?
    arabella Ella: go on Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: I wonder whether we would discover that our thoughts/spirit/come whatever,,would actually discover it doesnt need a body
    adoro Rhapsody: yes go on
    adoro Rhapsody: yes i would discover that too mick
    Mickorod Renard: for example,,it could be a huge discovery
    arabella Ella: ah Mick that topic would make me feel like i am walking on eggs
    arabella Ella: or on glass
    arabella Ella: broken glass
    adoro Rhapsody: or on water
    adoro Rhapsody: right here in the fountain
    Mickorod Renard: it was just an accumulated thought
    adoro Rhapsody: why accumulated ?
    arabella Ella: it is an interesting and provocative thought but a very difficult one
    Mickorod Renard: brought from varried aspects of what we do here,,and some other areas of reading
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Mickorod Renard: even from that indian chap who doesnt eat
    adoro Rhapsody: i have a believe that spirit keeps on living after death
    Mickorod Renard: me too
    adoro Rhapsody: so at the end of the world the spirits will saty a live
    adoro Rhapsody: stay
    adoro Rhapsody: alive
    Mickorod Renard: and without bodily attachment it may develope in another way
    adoro Rhapsody: but a belief is no science
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    arabella Ella: i think there must be something
    arabella Ella: but it is impossible to tell what it is we can only speculate
    adoro Rhapsody: i think tht too
    arabella Ella: imagine
    arabella Ella: we can never be certain
    adoro Rhapsody: yes imagine
    adoro Rhapsody: its our fantasy
    adoro Rhapsody: that can make a picture
    adoro Rhapsody: an artist impression
    Mickorod Renard: I am almost brought to an idea that science,,being something that has to be proven,,is the core to what binds us to our conditioned state
    adoro Rhapsody: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: that could be true
    Mickorod Renard: if u catch my drift
    adoro Rhapsody: your drift ?
    arabella Ella: not necessarily Mick as science only explains one fraction of stuff (I prefer not to use the word 'reality' as no one knows what that is apart from phenomenology)
    Mickorod Renard: without the need to have everything proven we may actually inhabit a dream existance
    adoro Rhapsody: so ?
    arabella Ella: @ adoro - drift means the way he is thinking like the direction of his thinking
    adoro Rhapsody: ok thnx
    adoro Rhapsody: for explanation
    arabella Ella: yw
    Mickorod Renard: sorry adoro,,its a slang word
    adoro Rhapsody: i am dutch and cannot understand all english words
    arabella Ella: just ask adoro i dont mind explaining where i can
    adoro Rhapsody: but most i do understand
    Mickorod Renard: thats ok,,I should be more careful
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    arabella Ella: yes your english is very good but most dutch ppl speak good english
    adoro Rhapsody: right
    adoro Rhapsody: thanks to my english teachers !!!
    Mickorod Renard: yeaaa
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    arabella Ella: Mick your topic reminds me to go back to a book i was reading before my recent travels, a book which investigates psychics
    adoro Rhapsody: well ?
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Mickorod Renard: what was it called?
    arabella Ella: well i think Mick's topic is too difficult ... my opinion
    Mickorod Renard: yes, my topic is pure speculative
    arabella Ella: cant remember name of book but something like tourist traveller psychics or similar
    Mickorod Renard: hi Hanah
    Mickorod Renard: long time no see
    adoro Rhapsody: why difficult ?
    adoro Rhapsody: hi hanna
    Hana Furlough: Hi everyone~
    arabella Ella: written by a journalist who ttravels to meet psychics
    arabella Ella: Hiya Hana!
    arabella Ella: could we now move on to adoro's topic which is inteeresting too and less a matter of speculation?
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Mickorod Renard: yes please
    adoro Rhapsody: when introducing elearning
    adoro Rhapsody: i discovered that most teachers are not realy interersted
    adoro Rhapsody: i think thts because they are condservative
    arabella Ella: really?
    adoro Rhapsody: and think maybe thet will loose their jobs
    adoro Rhapsody: when computers or media takes it over
    Mickorod Renard: I see,,not interested in e learning?
    adoro Rhapsody: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: like opponents
    Hana Furlough: some teachers i've talked to have suggested that the feeling online is very different from in the classroom
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Mickorod Renard: I can understand their attitude. I have experienced this in several trades
    Hana Furlough: there is a magic there that they worry may not be reproduceable
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: sounds good
    adoro Rhapsody: a kind of magic ?
    Hana Furlough: also, they worry about how their students will be socialized into society virtually
    arabella Ella: but adoro can they be sacked? is it possible for them to lose their jobs?
    arabella Ella: as it would be difficult here for a teacher to lose a job
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    arabella Ella: and i use e-learning
    adoro Rhapsody: u r right
    Hana Furlough: yes... magic... it can be electric when students and teachers are fully engaged
    arabella Ella: but i find it takes up a lot of the teachers' time anyway
    adoro Rhapsody: wow
    adoro Rhapsody: of courese
    arabella Ella: i have also encouraged others to use it successfully
    adoro Rhapsody: they see more troubles than benefits
    arabella Ella: but at university level
    Mickorod Renard: school is social too
    arabella Ella: and when i tried to introduce other new stuff to teachers in schools i came across similar reaction to you - conservative teachers in schools
    adoro Rhapsody: yes and i think that is strange because teachers will leadd kids to the future
    arabella Ella: i think in general people are afraid of change and see it as a threat as change brings with it loss of security - of doing things as always done before
    adoro Rhapsody: i suppose
    adoro Rhapsody: ok its human
    adoro Rhapsody: and teachers are humans too
    arabella Ella: yes and perhaps generally speaking some teachers may be more conservative than most
    adoro Rhapsody: of course
    arabella Ella: even when one considers their choice of profession perhaps?
    adoro Rhapsody: there are nuances
    arabella Ella nods
    Hana Furlough: perhaps, but i think many teachers are very forward-thinking
    adoro Rhapsody: same as civil servants ?
    Hana Furlough: while still very rooted in the past
    Mickorod Renard: thankfully , in design and technology there is a need to be present in workshops etc and receive personal direction
    adoro Rhapsody: thanks mickorod
    adoro Rhapsody: thats a good one
    adoro Rhapsody: teachers are no designers
    arabella Ella: yes adoro similar to civil servants
    adoro Rhapsody: no risk apatite
    adoro Rhapsody: apetite
    arabella Ella: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: and hets maybe better for teachers
    adoro Rhapsody: thats
    adoro Rhapsody: because they have to protect kids for risks
    adoro Rhapsody: and teach them how to innovate in a secure way
    Mickorod Renard: its all health and safety now
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    arabella Ella: maybe there is also the issue that some ppl choose teaching as a vocation while others choose it for convenience?
    adoro Rhapsody: thats good
    adoro Rhapsody: hahaha
    adoro Rhapsody: arabella u hit the nail
    adoro Rhapsody: on its head
    arabella Ella: :)
    Hana Furlough: i don't know... teachers aren't paid very much
    Hana Furlough: even professors
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    arabella Ella: yes Hana and the qualifications to get a university degree to become a teacher are not that great
    Hana Furlough: tell me about it :)
    arabella Ella: at least as far as i know
    Hana Furlough: it is very difficult
    adoro Rhapsody: in beta busuness they can earn more in business
    Hana Furlough: and it takes many years
    adoro Rhapsody: that is a pity
    arabella Ella: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: so i am out
    adoro Rhapsody: its clear to me
    arabella Ella: well i liked an expression i heard from an australian once about kids in schools
    adoro Rhapsody: why some teachers are conservative
    Mickorod Renard: but the cost to the country would be too great if every teacher earnt their worth
    arabella Ella: he likened kids in schools to corks bobbing up and down in water
    adoro Rhapsody: and ?
    arabella Ella: kids move their attention up and down (in and out) like corks floating in water during a lesson in class
    adoro Rhapsody: i see
    Hana Furlough: haha
    arabella Ella: and it is difficult for an educator to keep their attention for too long
    Mickorod Renard: evn during their life in school,,they change so much whilst they grow up
    arabella Ella: the best educators i have seen in classrooms use different pedagogies
    Mickorod Renard: hormone changes etc
    adoro Rhapsody: of course
    arabella Ella: they mix and match theory with discussion with class work with videos etc
    adoro Rhapsody: and ict should keep up with all those changes
    arabella Ella: oh yes definitely
    adoro Rhapsody: to be interesting e-learning
    Hana Furlough: great chatting with everyone... i must get back to work
    arabella Ella: yes with e-learning you cannot simply have what you have in a F2F classroom
    Hana Furlough: have a super day
    arabella Ella: oh bye Hana nice to see you!
    adoro Rhapsody: ucces hana
    Mickorod Renard: bye hahah
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    adoro Rhapsody: wow that was interesting
    arabella Ella: what does that mean adoro?
    adoro Rhapsody: i liked the discussion
    arabella Ella: :)
    adoro Rhapsody: and the outcome
    arabella Ella: do you teach ICT pedagogy?
    adoro Rhapsody: not yet i finance it
    adoro Rhapsody: i fund it
    arabella Ella: oh
    adoro Rhapsody: from dutch government
    arabella Ella surprised
    arabella Ella: ah
    adoro Rhapsody: also teachers salaries
    adoro Rhapsody: and i agree they are low
    arabella Ella: have you heard about the australian education department funding laptops for all (I think) Year 5 students (not sure exactly what year)?
    adoro Rhapsody: yes
    arabella Ella: in New South Wales if i remember correctly
    adoro Rhapsody: one laptop for al
    adoro Rhapsody: all
    arabella Ella: a huge initiative with massive funding
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    arabella Ella: i wonder tho will they be able to sustain it and replace the laptops every 3 years or so?
    adoro Rhapsody: and they work on solar energy in Africa
    arabella Ella: yes the negroponte laptops!
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    arabella Ella: wind up ones too
    Mickorod Renard: thats a good point Ara
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    adoro Rhapsody: there must be follow up
    adoro Rhapsody: or else it will die in beauty
    arabella Ella: there must be but it does not always happen
    arabella Ella: like here way back in mid 90s each primary school teacher in state schools was given a laptop but i dont think there was sustainability
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    arabella Ella: each primary classroom then also had 4 laptops for 20 - 25 kids but i dont know what happened there
    Mickorod Renard: the uk was very progressive in that way some years back,,when they installed bbc computors in schols
    adoro Rhapsody: i see
    arabella Ella: sustainability is a very difficult issue where ICT in education is concerned
    adoro Rhapsody: right
    arabella Ella: governments change policies change funding gets reduced etc
    adoro Rhapsody: oh
    adoro Rhapsody: i am sorry
    adoro Rhapsody: its a strange magic
    arabella Ella: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: its designer crime
    adoro Rhapsody: producers take more advantage than consumers do
    adoro Rhapsody: ?
    arabella Ella: yes
    Mickorod Renard: our government is tryin to cut back so much spending I can see we will be back with abacusses soon
    adoro Rhapsody: and schools should teachhow to earn as a consumer
    arabella Ella: one reason why teachers may be conservative when faced with change is that they see many policies many changes and sometimes they stick to what they consider to be safe
    adoro Rhapsody: ok i see
    adoro Rhapsody: its human
    arabella Ella: yes
    arabella Ella: like when one's boss at work changes too often one sticks to what is safe rather than accept changes
    adoro Rhapsody: and it maybe unhuman to change at such a frequency
    Mickorod Renard: I am affraid i need to go home now
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    arabella Ella: the problem is though that children are growing up accustomed to such change
    adoro Rhapsody: dont be affraid
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou very much for the chat
    adoro Rhapsody: its was my pleasure
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx mick
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    adoro Rhapsody: bye
    Mickorod Renard: see you soon
    arabella Ella: i must go now too but i really enjoyed this chat thanks to both of you for your topics!
    adoro Rhapsody: have a good rest
    arabella Ella: bye for now
    adoro Rhapsody: bye



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