2010.09.10 07:00 - The Way

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

     

    Bleu Oleander: all yours Eliza :)
    Pema Pera: bye everybody, and thank you so much!
    Pema Pera: I'll post the next chapter soon
    Bleu Oleander: bye Pema
    Zen Arado: bye Pema
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Pema.
    Wester Kiranov: bye pema, ty
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Bleu, and Bye Pema :)
    Bleu Oleander: looking forward to it!
    Eliza Madrigal: Looking forward to reading the chapter
    Eliza Madrigal: Really appreciate this morning's tone...
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone. Feels like 'vigorous' exploration
    Wester Kiranov: brb
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, me too, Eliza. I'm quite upset, though, about the fanatic in Florida who wants to burn Qurans.
    Bruce Mowbray: and also upset about those who do not want the Islamic cultural center built in New York. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: Wondering how those folks would fit into our circle?
    Bleu Oleander: didn't he agree not to do that?
    Eliza Madrigal: understandable Bruce... this is the kind of wall we have to stay with though...
    Bruce Mowbray: He's flip-flopping right now...
    Bleu Oleander: oh didn't hear that
    Bruce Mowbray: He might go ahead and burn them if they don't agree to move the Islamic center in NYC.
    Bleu Oleander: oh you're kidding
    Eliza Madrigal: what we can do, is dig deeply into the openness perhaps....
    Bruce Mowbray: SUCH rigidity and political spite! --- Nothing whatsoever to do with "spirit," in my opinion.
    Eliza Madrigal: nurture that space
    Eliza Madrigal: and allow it to spread... it seems generous by nature
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just wonder why that guy got such an attention, i think the worst punishment for him would be if nobody would recognize him and his actions
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza -- keep ourselves open to the questions. . .
    Fefonz Quan: Well, bruce, i am not sure this is the right thing to do, and i'm still here for a while :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I was reading this week, the dialog last year between Geo and Sophia... it was really beautiful and there are so many opportunities to find a place to pick apart...
    Zen Arado: yes Yaku - it's the publicity that is most harmful, not the action
    Bruce Mowbray: I agree, Yaku -- but "perception" seems to be everything these days -- going viral on the Web, etc.
    Wester Kiranov: back
    Eliza Madrigal: instead when people choose to zero in on connection and on the places where there is understanding
    Bleu Oleander: the action is very harmful, publicity makes it worse
    Zen Arado: wasn't condoing the action I hasten to add
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: that seems powerful... I mean, we vote and we can say what we feel... but it is easy to get caught there kind of debating opinions.
    Fefonz Quan: Burning holy scriptures of any religion is a foolish thing to do, i agree
    Bruce Mowbray: agrees totally with Fef on that.
    Eliza Madrigal: and there is always someone who is willing to be a spectacle... giving those people so much attention is part of the issue sometimes
    Fefonz Quan: but people are talking about symbols in that case, and ground zero is a symbol too.
    Bruce Mowbray: but also a powerful image -- like burning American flags in Iran or Pakistan.
    Fefonz Quan: so in a sense, the symbolic of building a mosque there should be problematic too in some areas
    Wester Kiranov: hi arch
    Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Arch.
    Zen Arado: Hi Arch
    Eliza Madrigal: So the issue is that (if) we 'can't' share the space 'between' in society... we can't have true open dialog politically
    Fefonz Quan: I have to go, good bye everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks Fef. You've added MUCH today.
    Wester Kiranov: bye fef
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Fef :) Thanks so much
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Bruce Mowbray: Be well, Fef.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye fef
    Zen Arado: bye Fef
    Bleu Oleander: bye Fef
    Eliza Madrigal: Namaste
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wer hat diese braune schlange ?
    Eliza Madrigal: que?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, that wasn´t translated
    Yakuzza Lethecus: weired
    Archmage Atlantis: it is difficult to detach other beings here
    Eliza Madrigal: sorry to keep going with this... but there is a difference between a kind of 'tolerant' discussion and sharing exploration... into openness
    Zen Arado: probably a large proportion of people agree with the pastor though
    Bleu Oleander: a shame if they do
    Wester Kiranov: I agree with Eliza
    Wester Kiranov: but I have to go now. cu
    Archmage Atlantis: Oh,the discussion is about the burning of Allah's word
    Eliza Madrigal: one has the 'ability' to shift things externally and one doesn't
    Wester Kiranov: namaste
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Wester -- Thank you!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wester Namaste :)
    Zen Arado: bye Wester
    Bleu Oleander: as a pastor he should know better
    Eliza Madrigal: pastor can be a role...
    Eliza Madrigal: a job
    Bleu Oleander: a role model
    Eliza Madrigal: and in many cases a political one
    Eliza Madrigal: catering to attention
    --BELL--
    Archmage Atlantis: Wow, it has gotten this small man, with no faith, attention
    Bleu Oleander: perhaps that's what he's after
    Archmage Atlantis: 'We are not ready to go to the stars
    Zen Arado: remembers the parable of the Good Samaritan..
    Archmage Atlantis: If his type is who we focus on
    Eliza Madrigal: The thing is... people wake up here. I was sitting in a Christian church, wrestling, trying to conform to what was being said 'on stage' to be 'good'... until it was soooo blatantly obvious that I was in a different place than the church, whether the god seemed to have the same name or not
    Eliza Madrigal: that was many years ago, and very painful to drop it all
    Eliza Madrigal: to see that it was political
    Bruce Mowbray: Apparently, Jesus had a similar problem, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: but wow did it make room :)
    Zen Arado: happened to me too
    Eliza Madrigal: YES he did Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: Is that dark night of the soul, or the gift of disillusionment?
    Archmage Atlantis: It is a meme, useful at one time, now not so.......he is still a being and I shall love him.....but I shall oppose his actions
    Bruce Mowbray appreciates and is grateful for his many dark nights of the soul. . .
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen Arado: still think the teachings of Jesus aren't too far off the mark
    Eliza Madrigal: Studying taoist ideas helped me to understand what "I am the way" meant...
    Eliza Madrigal: still in a limited view I'm sure, nonetheless I think of how many people have been hurt for not interpreting that to someone else's liking
    Bruce Mowbray: Maybe I will try to think of the Florida pastor as a bit of "spice" on the religious buffet table
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe he's doing good, in some way, by being so blatantly hateful
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, maybe too strong there...
    Bleu Oleander: hard to see what the good would be
    Eliza Madrigal: but obvious is what I mean to say.... it shows up the discongruency
    Archmage Atlantis: Those who understand the word of the prophet, they willl no t fear
    Bruce Mowbray: Scapegoating is pretty dangerous in a society that's already pretty angry and looking for something to blame.
    Eliza Madrigal: ever have a conversation with someone and you think "no, they don't mean that..." so you keep walking along...
    Eliza Madrigal: til "wow" they say something..
    Eliza Madrigal: you realize "ohhhh... they do mean that..."
    Eliza Madrigal: and you know
    Eliza Madrigal: agree Bruce
    Zen Arado: I have a friend who said of the pastor 'Good for him'....
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes you know... they have fallen......still one offers a hand
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh my. ;-(
    Eliza Madrigal: scary in some ways if we don't learn to just speak without the same 'charged' response
    Zen Arado: there is a lot of anti muslim sentiment in our societies whether we llike it or not
    Eliza Madrigal: if we can let the 'violence' of the discussion unravel from a deeper level
    Bleu Oleander: one hopes that could happen
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, Eliza -- and seek to find "containers" large enough to hold us all while we explore together.
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods
    Eliza Madrigal: This is the toughest part of our world I think...
    Eliza Madrigal: how to 'love' entirely and disagree entirely
    Zen Arado: I had the experience of teaching muslim Arabs
    Eliza Madrigal: and stay open
    Zen Arado: groups of engineers from the Yemen
    Bruce Mowbray: please say more, Zen.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh? what was that like for you Zen?
    Zen Arado: noticed and felt guilty about my antipathy towards them
    Archmage Atlantis: There was a lot of anti-Catholic in the society I grew up in, and my mother taught me not to go in the "colored" restroom......still she thought that havin a restroom for the colored was progress
    Zen Arado: found them hard to get along with
    Zen Arado: but mostly beacuse of my own racist attitude
    Zen Arado: not nice to discover you have racist attitudes
    Eliza Madrigal: so you saw your own reactions.... that is really hard
    Archmage Atlantis: To go to the stars, we have to learn to love ourselves
    Eliza Madrigal: daring to expose it
    Zen Arado: they could be quite arrogant and condescending to us
    Eliza Madrigal: and to see others as ourselves, Arch :)
    Zen Arado: goes both ways
    Zen Arado: that is probably the hardest to take
    Archmage Atlantis: Agree, Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: well, yes I guess it is about dropping what someone 'has' for what they 'are' when we are with them
    Bleu Oleander: xenophobia something we need to work on
    Zen Arado: they use to ogle the secretaries because they wore short skirts
    Bleu Oleander: seems the first step is to recognize it
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen Arado: hope I am more ...open....now
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, Zen, in all societies where there is a 'no don't do that' it makes 'that' stand out more
    Archmage Atlantis: Oh, and Koya says "hi" to Blub.......thinking he looks tasty today
    Zen Arado: just saying the theory of this is a lot easier than the practice
    Bruce Mowbray: Blub loves to be seen - - -and salivated over, oogled over, even.
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: yes in some (internal) cultures I think women might feel worried if no one yells from a car
    Eliza Madrigal: hahhaha
    Zen Arado: 'love your neighbour' as Jesus said
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: as yourself
    Archmage Atlantis: Did we just come full circle?
    Eliza Madrigal: even in all the ugliness of the places that haven't been exposed yet... all the places waiting to be relinquished
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: {no not that come}
    Zen Arado: I think your background conditioning can make you more or less racist
    Zen Arado: we Irish are not exposed to ohter nationalities very much
    Bruce Mowbray: no question about that, Zen.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, there are voices... things people have said in earshot...
    Eliza Madrigal: views implanted
    Bleu Oleander: we can also work to overcome that
    Eliza Madrigal: absolutely
    Zen Arado: it is changing now though
    Eliza Madrigal: one way is simply cultivating one's own openness to let the light stream in
    Eliza Madrigal: so that those things give themselves up
    Eliza Madrigal: come clean :))
    Bleu Oleander: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: in conversations like this one, too...
    Archmage Atlantis: Dang, tried to finn my ancestory
    Archmage Atlantis: The name goes back to the first ships from England
    Eliza Madrigal: when reading that session, I was really struck by Sophia and Geo both having a sense of letting everything go that may be in the way 'between' lover and beloved...
    Archmage Atlantis: The DNA is polish, mostly
    Eliza Madrigal: one with a more 'obedience' kind of tone, but both saying the same thing... "Be Seen" basically
    Eliza Madrigal: "Give Up"
    Archmage Atlantis: The X is from Scotland
    Archmage Atlantis: the y is levite
    Zen Arado: coping with other's racist attitudes towards you can be more difficult
    Archmage Atlantis: someone was fooling around
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, or toward someone you love, Zen
    Bruce Mowbray: Folk -- thank you all (wherever your DNA may be from) -- Time for a hike with Bear Dog now.
    Pema Pera: hi again :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: May all have a happy day and a grand weekend.
    Bleu Oleander: hi Pema
    Zen Arado: bye Bruce
    Bleu Oleander: bye Bruce
    Archmage Atlantis: Bye Bruce
    Zen Arado: Hi Pema
    Eliza Madrigal: You too Bruce :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Welcome back :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Wiat! Pema's back. I will postpone the hike.
    Eliza Madrigal: Can't sleep?
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah Bruce
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: oh, I realized that the night is young . . . .
    Pema Pera: and that I don't have to get up quite as early as I thought
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Who knows, Pema is around the world
    Pema Pera: to take the train from Kyoto to TOkyo tomorrow
    Pema Pera: so . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: in many worlds at once it seems
    Archmage Atlantis: Some of us mnever leave our house
    Archmage Atlantis: Emily Dickinson vs. well who?
    Zen Arado: she never left the house?
    Eliza Madrigal: very much a recluse Zen
    Bruce Mowbray: Hillary Clinton leaves the house a lot, however.
    Eliza Madrigal: however thinking of some Masters.... they say it is possible to 'see' everything from one spot
    Eliza Madrigal: like Fef's digging person :)
    Archmage Atlantis: It is possiible, true.....just not likely
    Zen Arado: "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust
    Bruce Mowbray: digging a deep wekk, you mean, Eliza?
    Bruce Mowbray: well.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Pema Pera: nice, Zen!
    Bleu Oleander: like that Zen
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, you are here Pema
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, vey nice Zen...
    Zen Arado: "The sole cause of mans unhappiness is that he does not know how to stay quietly in his room." from Pascal, "Pensees, 139"
    Eliza Madrigal: Pema is probably sleepy....
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah Zen
    Archmage Atlantis: So often you only flash thru
    Bruce Mowbray: "It is not what we look at but what we see. . . " ?
    Pema Pera: Pema is getting his second wind . . . it is getting midnite
    Pema Pera: and he'll turn into something
    Archmage Atlantis: I know bro, I know
    Zen Arado: hope you have the glass slipper :)
    --BELL--
    Archmage Atlantis: Had it, used it, gave it away
    Archmage Atlantis: Was not the current answer
    Zen Arado: was reading how we desensitise ourselves so that we have more psychic energy for egoic thinking
    Zen Arado: so we don't notice our surroundings as much as we should
    Eliza Madrigal: Like some birds choose not to fly in order to conserve for things better suited to their environment?
    Pema Pera: actually egoic thinking is what costs most energy
    Eliza Madrigal: well, I say choose, but perhaps adapt is a better word
    Zen Arado: yes
    Pema Pera: wu-wei, not doing is the easiest and least-action way of being
    Pema Pera: once you find a way in
    Zen Arado: so we then see everything as it should be seen
    Zen Arado: heightened perception
    Zen Arado: happens after long spells of meditation I think
    Eliza Madrigal: it seems a ... and sorry this may seem strange to say... a flowing of inner and outer... (wu wei) no obstructions
    Eliza Madrigal: so we aren't stopping response, which in tern doesn't stop response....
    Zen Arado: the egoic thinking is too dominant maybe
    Pema Pera: it only seems dominant
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Pema Pera: when we feed it
    Pema Pera: once we stop feeding the illusion, it is totally powerless
    Pema Pera: and we can relax and retain our energy
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: stop where we are until everything stops 'going'
    Pema Pera: or not even caring about stopping or not stopping . . . .
    Pema Pera: dropping stopping . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: unravel the tight patterns of habituated reactiveness.
    Bruce Mowbray: thinking that "ego" itself is such a pattern.
    Pema Pera: or letting them unravel . . .
    Zen Arado: I'm interested in 'wakening' - is that the same thing?
    Pema Pera: if there is anything I've learned in the last few years it is that there is no end to letting go, doing less and less and less . . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes -- letting the unravel.
    Pema Pera: dropping any interests . . . .
    Pema Pera: not wanting any more to wake up even . . .
    Pema Pera: trusting Being . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: "letting the flowers pick themselves," as e.e. cummings put it.
    Zen Arado: but my mind wants to be in charge....
    Eliza Madrigal: noticing the appearance of raveling... while knowing its unraveled already...
    Zen Arado: am reading this atm: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Waking-Sleep...4130351&sr=8-1
    Zen Arado: it's interesting
    Zen Arado: he says indigenous people and children are awake in ways adults are not
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, everyone. My dog and I are going out into the sunshine now.
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the subtitle.... the idea of not letting one experience be defined as what 'it' 'is'
    Bruce Mowbray: May all have a happy weekend.
    Zen Arado: and we have a yearning to return to this more 'awake' state
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bruce :) And Bear :) And Blub :)
    Zen Arado: bye Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye!
    Bleu Oleander: bye Bruce
    Pema Pera: bye Bruce!
    Pema Pera: yes, Zen, and it is exactly this yearning that we have to drop
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: ideas of redemption, in some sense... hope. In Eos's session we talked along these lines... have kept turning it over... what is hope
    Pema Pera: if hope can go beyond hope and fear, then it is true hope . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: I definitely see this tendency in myself... to get attached to my sand castles ...
    Eliza Madrigal: and to get mad at someone who walks through them
    Pema Pera: but now the clock of twelve has hit . . . .
    Zen Arado: I thought we have to live with what is and not hope for something better....
    Bleu Oleander: need to go .... take care all :)
    Pema Pera: so I'll turn into something . . . .
    Pema Pera: and I'd better leave :-)
    Zen Arado: bye Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: bye for now
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, me too....
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice session everyone. Thank you
    Zen Arado: bye all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya if you are here
    Zen Arado: thanks you Eliza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone

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