2010.09.10 13:00 - enjoy the little snowflakes

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

    Bertram Jacobus: it´s only this hour on fridays - voice
    Alfred Kelberry: ah, i see
    Qt Core: Alf, we have a voice happy hour before the friday 1pm session
    Bertram Jacobus: in 10 minutes the usual type session starts ...
    Alfred Kelberry: i only hear murmur :)
    Liza Deischer: hey
    Alfred Kelberry: oi, lizy
    Alfred Kelberry: nio the duck :) i think i see you for the first time
    Archmage Atlantis: f n a....nolw I have to figure out vouce? .mvill thinkere triied this also
    Slavetotheuniverse Greybeard: hi
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey slave
    Liza Deischer: hi were are on voice Greybeard
    Archmage Atlantis: cannot find that silly o dance in my inventory
    Archmage Atlantis: would fit here
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, i just saw that it's nio talking :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i can hardly hear you zen
    Bertram Jacobus: something like this arch ?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yea, Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: ok
    Wol Euler: helo everyone
    Bertram Jacobus: hi wol ! :-)
    Liza Deischer: hi Wol
    Alfred Kelberry: woly :)
    Qt Core: Hi WOl
    Archmage Atlantis: being gay tho, that did make me horny......sorry......the animal brain does override
    Zen Arado: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: apparently I arrived just in time :)
    Alfred Kelberry: *comes to woly and touches her shoulders* hi :)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty for the talk all - i´ll take some time off here - have a nice time and may all beings be happy plz ! *wave* ...
    Wol Euler: hello alf, nice to see you again
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Bert
    Wol Euler: bye bert, take care
    Alfred Kelberry: um, i like your dress, woly :) and glasses of course :)
    Zen Arado: bye Bert
    Liza Deischer: welcome to sl stevens :)
    Wol Euler: hello stevens, welcome to SL. Born today :)
    Archmage Atlantis: f...k....s up AGAIN......keep tryin to relate to straight males
    Archmage Atlantis: Always turns out f .... p
    Wol Euler: ty, alf, I wore them just for you.
    Wol Euler: note to the GoC, remove Stevens' name form the log.
    Alfred Kelberry: mmm, thank you :)
    Archmage Atlantis: ty Yaku
    Zen Arado: ok sure Yaku
    Zen Arado: Hi Eliza
    Liza Deischer: hi Eliza
    Zen Arado: we are talking about altruism and friendship
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi, and thanks Zen :)
    Wol Euler: hello eliza, lovely dress.
    Eliza Madrigal: Wol! :)
    Archmage Atlantis: OLa, eliza
    Qt Core: Hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :::beams:::
    Wol Euler waves.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hola
    nio Artful: A quastion what is altruism and what is selfish?
    Eliza Madrigal: It feels like a 'sighting' to see Wol inworld lately :)
    nio Artful: we had that topic in voice
    Wol Euler: yeah, I hear you :(
    Eliza Madrigal: but don't let me interrupt
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
    Archmage Atlantis: Me thinks that is an easy question'
    nio Artful: ao we wil be glad if you have some ideas to have more light on this
    Archmage Atlantis: We are all selfish
    Archmage Atlantis: altruism is a way of being selfish
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    Zen Arado: but we can practice giving
    Archmage Atlantis: that is good
    Zen Arado: we do naturally to some extent anyway
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not sure if true altruism really excists we like to have something in return, even if it´s ,,love of others"
    Qt Core: as a social species altruism is somewhat genetic to keep the group healthy\
    Liza Deischer: my teacher once said that everything we do is in a way selvish, so let's skip that part and get on to business :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Qt Core: as a healthy group can defend myself better
    Zen Arado: probably right Liza :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, '
    Eliza Madrigal: one of the things that surprised me about sl was how many people just enjoy helping other people... giving what they have in terms of knowledge, etc...
    Zen Arado: I read that somewhere too Qt
    nio Artful: ~',','Oh..kay..kay..kay',','~
    nio Artful: i believe that there is a big misunderstanding about what shelfish is
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is a natural way to be
    nio Artful: not to us but to the most of people
    Zen Arado: giving can be enjoyable - is that selfish?
    nio Artful: true
    nio Artful: is not
    Archmage Atlantis: It is why I am proud to be human
    Liza Deischer: yes, because it is enjoyable
    Wol Euler nods belatedly to Eliza. Yes, there is a huge and surprising amount of helpfulness and generosikty here
    Archmage Atlantis: We :see;
    Wol Euler: -k
    nio Artful: that is the missanderstanding
    Liza Deischer: and your selfishness likes to do things that are enjoyable
    nio Artful: toooooooooo high standards abot the meaning delete the value
    Wol Euler: I am uncomfortable wiht the use of "selfishness" in this context. I think that the word only applies in zero-sum games
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Wol Euler: where there are only four apples, and if I take two you can't have any
    Wol Euler: if my "taking" pleasure doesn't improverish your experience, what have I "taken"?
    Alfred Kelberry: snow!
    Wol Euler smiles
    Zen Arado: yes ther's a mutual benefit
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
    Qt Core: hi Ara
    nio Artful: we need eaach other to face the uncertainess of life
    Alfred Kelberry: oi, ara :)
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Zen Arado: Hi Ara
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, life is a zero-sum game
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arabella :)
    arabella Ella: hey Alf how are you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ara
    Liza Deischer: hi Ara
    Liza Deischer is looking for her scarf
    Zen Arado: it can be difficult to receive things graciously
    arabella Ella: owwww this is so cold in the middle of summer :)
    Zen Arado: is that selfishness?
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, very well, thanks. hanging here with woly :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    nio Artful: where is the problem if other people radar 1 feel your needs us them and want to help and 2 they feel how incomplete are alone and how they also need you for ever and they apreciate that they also need you?
    Alfred Kelberry: it's fall alread, ara :) plus, we're high up in the mountains :)
    Zen Arado: mutual neediness is ok I suppose
    Wol Euler smiles.
    arabella Ella: still hot and humid and swimming weather here Alf :)
    nio Artful: i mean they are humble and moderate if they feel that they need others also
    arabella Ella: feel free to visit
    nio Artful: is not selfish
    Zen Arado: don't need snow though :)
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, coming :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Not me, it is hot here in SW FL
    Wol Euler: it'll be here soon enough, methinks.
    Wol Euler: We had the heating on in the office this week.
    arabella Ella: oh is that you at the door now Alf?
    Alfred Kelberry: hehe
    Zen Arado: Hi Mick
    nio Artful: Helllooooo!!!
    Wol Euler: hello mick
    Alfred Kelberry: *knock-knock* :)
    Liza Deischer: hi Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hiyaaaaaaaa
    arabella Ella: Hiya Mick
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey mick
    Zen Arado: who's there?
    Liza Deischer: to sustain life there needs to be selfishness
    Qt Core: Hi Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: wow,,all the old croud
    Wol Euler: ((has somebody asked Nio about logging?))
    Liza Deischer: so maybe selfishness isn't that selfish as altruism isn't that altruistic
    Archmage Atlantis: Time for panthers to roam, iguanas to eat advocados, pythons and alligators to duel, and white frogs to sing
    Eliza Madrigal: Nio has been here a few times, right Nio?
    Zen Arado: if we are all one helping ourself is also helping others
    Alfred Kelberry: woly, i think mick just called you old
    Wol Euler: ok, good :) just checking
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*YESSSSSS!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
    nio Artful: indeed
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: so you know about the :::points to the misty triangle lotus:::::
    Eliza Madrigal: in the pool, hehehe.... the recording, that is
    Archmage Atlantis: Was a white vampire once....that got really old...and no meaning except to stay
    nio Artful: i believe that the one who told that we must not give in order to take back ...he had something practical to his mind and not the toooooo jigh standarts tat delete of love its meaning
    nio Artful: jihg=high
    nio Artful: tat =that
    nio Artful: lol..
    nio Artful: love is union
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    nio Artful: union needs atravtion
    nio Artful: apreciation
    nio Artful: i apreciate that i realice that i miss so i nedd
    Mickorod Renard: is it snowing,,or has someone got bad scalp condition?
    Wol Euler: :)
    nio Artful: if this is a realization of both parts ..empathy +moderation and hamble spirit this then make happy all
    Eliza Madrigal: are those mutually exclusive states Mick?
    arabella Ella: if i may add my two cents to your discussion - there is nothing wrong in helping others as it also serves to make the world a better place for all
    Wol Euler: agreed
    nio Artful: and if someone say that is selfish to want to be happy all people in harmony ,,,,,then i would say that he is anesthetic in my objective opinion
    Mickorod Renard: appreciate the appearance of dandruff
    Mickorod Renard: aad
    Liza Deischer: (and the only scarf I can find is a very small one)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, as it usually means one has hair
    Wol Euler: huh.
    Wol Euler: never thought of that before, eliza.
    Archmage Atlantis: *lost my mouse* Finally Arabella
    arabella Ella: ah nio but how can you have an objective opinion?
    arabella Ella: no opinion can ever be obective
    Archmage Atlantis: You say why we do what we do
    nio Artful: i agree arabela
    arabella Ella: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: *enjoys little snowflakes*
    Archmage Atlantis: yea, nice dandruff
    nio Artful: excuse me what is oblective?
    Wol Euler: I guess that means that it's time to prove that this really is a Friday 1pm session
    Wol Euler: by doing the
    nio Artful: i am greek and i may say rong
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Eliza Madrigal: uh oh
    Liza Deischer: I like winter (my favorite season), but ony after autumn
    arabella Ella: ah you used the word objective nio
    Eliza Madrigal: stop
    Eliza Madrigal: onigokko
    Wol Euler laughs
    arabella Ella: it means something which remains as it is regardless and on which at least a large majority can agree
    nio Artful: i use the term objective meaning that i see trough my own filters and i am may be wrong
    Wol Euler watches Alf's head rotating.
    Mickorod Renard: yes me too,,I hate it when its before spring
    Eliza Madrigal smiles.. exhilarating to run in the sun and snow
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza mischievous girl :)
    Alfred Kelberry: haha
    Alfred Kelberry: true, wol :)
    Liza Deischer: I see something blue with glasses running into my camera :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Alfred Kelberry: crazy people :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and a dragon tatoo?
    Alfred Kelberry: wait, what? :)
    Alfred Kelberry: what tattoo? :)
    Liza Deischer: yes, that too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: :P
    Archmage Atlantis: Wol, I need a push.....
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Liza Deischer: and the strange thing is, it is gone in a flicker
    Wol Euler: stop
    Liza Deischer: and then it appears again
    Wol Euler: arch, do you have an onigokko?
    Liza Deischer: and again :))
    Eliza Madrigal smiling... amazing how that feels... being ten again
    nio Artful: so when i told OBJECTIVE I MENT THE OPPOSITE
    Wol Euler: and if so, are you wearing it?
    nio Artful: what is the opposite of objective?
    Wol Euler: subjective
    arabella Ella: i think so nio although I may be mistaken
    Zen Arado: objective means neutral - right?
    nio Artful: ~',','Oh..kay..kay..kay',','~
    nio Artful: i had in my mind that
    arabella Ella: objective means 'reality' with NO filters
    Alfred Kelberry: nio makes me think of java
    Archmage Atlantis: No Wol, it is the imaginative
    nio Artful: so i speak acording to my subjective vew as we all do
    arabella Ella: yes
    nio Artful: sory for that wrong word i used
    Zen Arado: true objectivity is impossibel I think
    arabella Ella: hey no need for any apologies
    Wol Euler: np, nio, happens all the time
    Eliza Madrigal: supposedly, distanced... though many 'think' they speak from objective viewpoints but yes...
    Alfred Kelberry: objective is what majority thinks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: was about to say that zen
    Zen Arado: we just like to deconstruct the meanings of words
    arabella Ella agrees with Zen
    nio Artful: ♫::♪::♬ Ⓦⓞⓞ-Ⓦⓞⓞ- ⓌⓞⓞⓞⒽⓄⓄ-ⒽⓄⓄ \◕‿◕/ ♫::♪::♬
    nio Artful: and now i see that people in past would feel strange //i have used tbhat again
    Zen Arado: so we don't understand them any more :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: srill have my oni tail, just cant activate
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Wol Euler: gthere, you're running now
    Archmage Atlantis: but knowing it is there counts
    Eliza Madrigal: well, so a view expressed from an objective view that realizes it is impossible thereby seeng the subjective in there... is closer... hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: how's that for a convoluted sentence? :)
    Alfred Kelberry: *watches qt and liza sitting quietly* :)
    Wol Euler: probably today#s prizewinner
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Eliza Madrigal: avatar logic
    Liza Deischer: this time something red and blue walks right through me :)
    Liza Deischer: with a little (I forgotto mention that) :)
    Alfred Kelberry: um, do you run like that on rl retreats, wol? :)
    Qt Core: thinking about onigokko as a metaphore of life... running around without really moving from the Center ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking through you, where did you go... I thought I knew you.. what did I know...
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza :)
    Wol Euler: stop
    Zen Arado: want to do a real onigo kko in RL :)
    Wol Euler nods
    Zen Arado: do you do it at retreats?
    Wol Euler: no, sadly.
    Eliza Madrigal: alas
    Wol Euler: we missed the chance!
    Alfred Kelberry: wol?! how come?
    Wol Euler: nobody thoiught of it.
    Liza Deischer: I already get tired seeing you guys (and girls) like this
    Archmage Atlantis: Tell Pema he is missing what he has meaning
    Alfred Kelberry: oh my...
    Alfred Kelberry: i thought you would
    Wol Euler: perhaps in Germany.
    Archmage Atlantis: And it lives in ys
    Alfred Kelberry: no, not perhaps :)
    Qt Core: you'll need some space
    Alfred Kelberry: set it up :)
    Alfred Kelberry: out in a park
    Zen Arado: can imagine the reactions of members of staff:)
    Eliza Madrigal: well we did wol, but I think the conversations seemed a little sensitive at moments and maybe not hm... timely
    Alfred Kelberry: so others could join if they want to
    Wol Euler: we have a fairly large room booked to meet in, probably 4x7 metres
    Qt Core: and a way to have the onimusic radomly start ;-)
    Alfred Kelberry: wol, not in the open?
    Wol Euler nods to eliza
    Wol Euler: not in Germany in october, probably not
    Archmage Atlantis: The universe, the multi-verse,,,,,has alll space and time
    Archmage Atlantis: you kids see it
    Alfred Kelberry: eh... yea, october
    Archmage Atlantis: yet you don't name it
    Alfred Kelberry: woly, in porsche city?
    Eliza Madrigal: I actually have to slip into one of those alternates now... but nice to play a bit :)
    Wol Euler: no, nearby
    Wol Euler: awwww
    Mickorod Renard: I am sorry I cannot make it Wol,,I cannot escape school I am affraid
    arabella Ella: it is already winter in germany now
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, enjoy the weekend. It was good to see you again
    Liza Deischer: (nobody slipped on the snow?)
    Qt Core: Bye Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: bye eliza
    Zen Arado: bye Eliza
    arabella Ella: bye eliza
    Liza Deischer: bye Eliza
    Wol Euler: no, not yet. 22°C and sunny today
    Alfred Kelberry: nice dragon eliza :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Loves you all
    Alfred Kelberry: be well :)
    Archmage Atlantis: All are blessed
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi flying Cal and bye flying Cal, thanks everyone :) ((( )))
    Wol Euler: hello cal
    Zen Arado: Hi Cal :)
    Liza Deischer: hi Cal :)
    arabella Ella: oh i had a stopover in munich a few days ago (saturday) and it was lousy
    Wol Euler: bye arch
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Cal
    Alfred Kelberry: cal and his self
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi wol, everyone :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Cal
    Qt Core: Hi Cal
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, lousy as in?
    Alfred Kelberry: woly, can i come for the oni-run? :)
    Wol Euler: ((I have to log off briefly to reset the timer on my Starbucks internet connection. bbiab))
    arabella Ella: cold and clouds you could nearly touch they were so low ... gloomy
    Alfred Kelberry: starbucks internet connection? huh?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, ah... yes, i had a similar experience on my road trip lately
    Liza Deischer: she has no internetconnection at home at the moment
    nio Artful: ㋡ ☆*¨¨*:•.•:*¨* hallo hello hi holla *¨¨*:•.•:*¨*☆ ㋡
    nio Artful: calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: What's up :)
    nio Artful: nice to see you calvino
    Liza Deischer: wb Wol
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, but i liked it. it was rain, then sun, then rain, etc :)
    Wol Euler: ty
    Alfred Kelberry: woly, what is starbuck internet connection?
    arabella Ella: :)
    Zen Arado: pab pavilion is located in the Northern hemisphere then?
    Wol Euler: free but limited to 2 hrs.
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, to give you some idea :) http://t.xalan.org/cloudy-grass.jpg
    Wol Euler: I'm in starbucks downtown, my internet at home is broken
    Alfred Kelberry: wol, oh, like inside?
    Alfred Kelberry: ouch
    Alfred Kelberry: sorry about that
    Wol Euler: ty
    Alfred Kelberry: something even you can't fix? :)
    Zen Arado: that's along time broken ?
    Wol Euler shrugs and nods
    Wol Euler: pure incompetence on my part, I can't get myself organized to fix it
    arabella Ella: that is so lovely Alf thanks!
    Alfred Kelberry: hehe
    Alfred Kelberry: silly you :)
    Wol Euler: hello bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Wol - - - and everyone.
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, thank you :)
    Mickorod Renard: hey Brucy
    Liza Deischer: hi Bruce :)
    Zen Arado: you always seem such an efficient type to me Wol
    Wol Euler scribbles a rude word on Alf's box with a pencil
    Qt Core: Hi Bruce
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bruce
    Zen Arado: Hi Bruce
    arabella Ella: Hiya Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi hi hi.
    Wol Euler thinks better of it, and erases the rude word.
    Alfred Kelberry: i have a special pencil resistant cardbord :)
    Wol Euler: just as well.
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Bruce Mowbray wonders, Are words rude or are people rude?
    Alfred Kelberry: bruce, good question :)
    Liza Deischer: I just wanted to say it is the thought that counts
    Zen Arado: they are only rude if someone is offended
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: The are only offended if they are offendable.
    Liza Deischer: don't know Zen, oh you only mean words
    Zen Arado: or if they decide to be offended
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it depends on the perspective, it can pe the perception, the ppl themselves or rude ppl might not even been seen as rude but hmm are they rude if we don´t recognize em as such ?
    Liza Deischer: because I think there is something like intention
    Wol Euler: intentions are rude, yes.
    Wol Euler: certain words are triggers though.
    Zen Arado: but you have to react to the rudeness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: do we ?
    Zen Arado: it takes two sides fro rudeness to occur then?
    Bruce Mowbray: When folks (fortunately, not many) intend to be rude to me, I simply make myself un-offendable.
    Alfred Kelberry: wol, intention can be good though, but turn out bad :)
    Wol Euler: for example, it's impossible to use the word "nigger" without making everyone who hears it twitch.
    Wol Euler: did anyone not twitch?
    Bruce Mowbray: did not twitch.
    Liza Deischer: no I think it the intention is rude, something happens with that person
    Wol Euler: well :)
    Bruce Mowbray: i don't LIKE it, but I didn't twitch.
    Zen Arado: it's the intention behind the word
    Liza Deischer: even if it isn't consider to be rude by the other one
    Yakuzza Lethecus: gosh, i think it´s possible to do so i know enough adolecents saying ,,hey nigger" in a postive sense without thinking of deeper meaning
    Mickorod Renard: rude may not be rude after people observe that its just character
    Zen Arado: just contradicted myself :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and there don´t even have to be black ppl around
    Alfred Kelberry: wol, not if you're say in japan, i think
    Wol Euler: ok, yes, rudeness is not only intention, but also context.
    Liza Deischer: but then you need to answer the question what character is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or i know friends whom talking like ,,ey du alter sack" all the time to each other
    Liza Deischer: character is no excuse to me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no rudeness involved
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Alfred Kelberry: yaku, translate please :)
    Wol Euler: "hello, you old bastard"
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi there, Yaku!
    Liza Deischer: I don't think it is in the words that are used, but in the intention, though I think that words can have a certain effect
    Yakuzza Lethecus: goodbye from nio
    Bruce Mowbray: (not offended in the slightest.)
    Wol Euler: bye nio
    Liza Deischer: so maybe out of respect it is better not to use certain words?
    Alfred Kelberry: woly, i think it's ok among friends... of some sort :)
    Zen Arado: bye Nio
    Alfred Kelberry: liza, that's what we do here :)
    Alfred Kelberry: we don't say shit or fuck, for example
    Wol Euler: so rudeness is perhaps deviation from the expected behaviour or vocabulary of the context?
    Mickorod Renard: bye nio
    Liza Deischer: true Alf
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: especially on your job interview or first date
    Wol Euler: actually that may be a counterexample, alf :)
    Wol Euler: best to make your true self known early on
    Alfred Kelberry: ok, ok :)
    Wol Euler: saves on disappointement
    arabella Ella: we dont Alf? you just did so
    Liza Deischer: well, you can ask yourself the question if somebody who is using the worf f*** a lot of times, doesn't have a negative energy, even though it isn't meant to be negative
    Alfred Kelberry: i usually do :)
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, as an example :)
    arabella Ella: me?
    Alfred Kelberry: wol, true. some keep playing even after marriage.
    Mickorod Renard: there is that saying' if it offends you pluck out your own eye'
    Alfred Kelberry: ara?
    Liza Deischer: yes, but that is a different issue to me Mick
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure there must be a budhist saying similar
    Liza Deischer: that is how you handle negativity and feelings of being offended
    Calvino Rabeni: Buddhist saying - drive all blame into oneself
    arabella Ella: but Liza it could also be cultural conditioning i guess
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, hmm
    Liza Deischer: but the cultural can have a negativity in it
    Wol Euler nods
    Mickorod Renard: I am easily offended,,some say because i am sensitive
    arabella Ella: sometimes listening to a word regularly somehow normalises it
    Liza Deischer: if you are brought up to become a nazi, then there is a moment you need to decide for yourself what you want to be
    Mickorod Renard: I see that as both my weakness and strenth
    Alfred Kelberry: *notes this point about mick* i'll try to be careful :)
    Zen Arado: we decide to be offended
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Wol Euler: true, zen
    Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Zen.
    Bruce Mowbray: and some conscious or unconscious level.
    Zen Arado: only I can make me feel offended
    Wol Euler: Nods to Liza
    Bruce Mowbray: we make that decision to be offended.
    Calvino Rabeni: Does not agree with zen and Bruce (for once)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Bruce Mowbray: I am sometimes VERY offensive to myself. . . .
    Zen Arado: feel offended :)
    Bruce Mowbray: especially when I recognize that I am.
    Liza Deischer: heheh
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, yes?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey Cal!!!! Go for it, man!
    Calvino Rabeni: But if you want to follow the proverb, Drive all blame to oneself, then assume you are deciding to be offended or offensive
    Zen Arado: we may not necessarily agree :)
    arabella Ella: does that apply to all aspects of life Zen?
    arabella Ella: sorry Cal i meant
    Bruce Mowbray thinks. . . this is from Mind Training in Seven Points, but I thought the saying was, Drive all blame into one.
    Calvino Rabeni: All that offensive stuff is so cultural, many things are indoctrinated into a person without them thinking about it - social attitudes, no decisions ever made consciously, and very complex
    Alfred Kelberry: well, ultimately it's your brain that interprets the sensory data and decide how to feel about it
    arabella Ella nods to Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: SO I don't see where it makes sense to think there's a point of decision or even an easy way to change it
    Calvino Rabeni: I think that kind of thing is an idealism - a "control fantasy"
    Calvino Rabeni: like saying - today I shall be virtuous
    Bruce Mowbray: Sorry to have caused such a stir -- and having to leave so soon. I have a date in a town 27 miles away -- in half an hour.
    Liza Deischer: true Cal, but somewhere there is a responsibility to take
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye everyone. Have a great weekend.
    Bruce Mowbray: You too, Cal!
    Wol Euler: ok, let's unpack this slowly :)
    Calvino Rabeni: So in that case it's a useful unrealistic idea
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Wol Euler: bye bruce, have a good time
    arabella Ella: bye Bruce safe journey
    Alfred Kelberry: bruce, good luck. remember to not use bad words :)
    Calvino Rabeni: heheh
    Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
    Zen Arado: don't see that slogan as thsame as rudeness Cal
    Liza Deischer: but I do agree it sounds far more easier then doing so
    Wol Euler: or to use them well
    Alfred Kelberry: woly, right :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Being as Driving, Bruce
    Zen Arado: blaming people for things isn't the same as being rude to them
    Wol Euler: :)
    Zen Arado: bye Brucde
    Mickorod Renard: bye bruce
    arabella Ella: i dont think we can put the blame on ourselves for everything in life can we?
    Wol Euler: I think there is a choice in being offended or not, despite cultural conditioning. When we hear somebody say something, we can either jump to the assumption that they mean to hurt us (and be offended)
    Calvino Rabeni: The statement was "we decide to be offended"
    Wol Euler: or we can ask what htey mean. Perhaps tehy don't know our code and meant an obscure compliment?
    Zen Arado: it;s kind of choosing who is responsible for bad things that happen to us
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, it's true though
    Alfred Kelberry: counsously or not, we do
    Liza Deischer: it's a process, that comes with decisions on many levels
    Calvino Rabeni: Drive all blame to one... means "oneself" as I see it
    Zen Arado: but that is how we choose to react to rudeness
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Liza
    Liza Deischer: it is not a choice like: okay from now on we don't get offended anymore
    Calvino Rabeni: you can't decide to "be" compassionate, it's a practice
    Qt Core: and even if they really wabted to offend, in what consideration we have the offender ?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Liza Deischer: it involves insight, awareness, change
    Calvino Rabeni: agree
    Wol Euler: and that maybe a dozen times an hour
    Wol Euler: "practice makes perfect"
    Zen Arado: if it isn't spontaneous it isn't real compassion
    Liza Deischer: yes Cal, about compassion
    Alfred Kelberry: liza, you can decide to stop being offended at something
    Mickorod Renard: even if someone is being rude on perpose, it only has any effect and value to them if it works,,so to not react is to extinguish
    Liza Deischer: only if the decision is made on all levels, not only as a cognitive decision, imo
    arabella Ella: but aren't we all human ... what i mean is that if someone offends me today and i let it go, same tomorrow, and on and on eventually it may get to me?
    Wol Euler: yes, of course
    Alfred Kelberry: liza, either way it's doable :)
    Zen Arado: there's a Buddhist teaching on that Ara
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you heard of the ancient chinese practice - The Eightfold Path to Complete Spontaneity ? After many years of careful practice, one can achieve utter spontaneity - but only if the practice was correct
    arabella Ella: is theere Zen?
    Liza Deischer: sure Ara, but that means you *are* offended
    Wol Euler: but that's like becomeing distracted while meditating. You get up, dust yourself off, and continue
    Alfred Kelberry: sometimes it's even advisable
    Liza Deischer: then it needs looking into it
    Liza Deischer: you can't just let it go, like it is a piece of paper you drop
    Wol Euler: sounds like a koan, cal :)
    Calvino Rabeni: @wol - fall down 10000 times, get up 10001
    Wol Euler: right
    Wol Euler: rinse and repeat <- is the point
    Calvino Rabeni: hehe
    Calvino Rabeni: I remember that
    Alfred Kelberry: woly, tell us a koan please :)
    arabella Ella: and ... dont we all have a weak spot an Achilles heel?
    Wol Euler: well, practicing to be spontaneous must come pretty close to being one!
    Liza Deischer: yes Wol, but strangly enough getting angry can be the trigger, if one is always letting herself get offended, that can be important on the psychological level
    Alfred Kelberry: that was it?
    Wol Euler: "we will all be spontaneous tomorrow at 1:47 for twenty-eight seconds"
    Zen Arado: "The wise bull does not chase after waving red cloaks..... If there is no space between an insulting stimulus and its immediate conditioned response—anger—then we are in fact under the control of others. Mindfulness opens up such a space..... Freedom means being able to choose how we respond to things. When wisdom is not well developed, it can be easily obscured by the provocations of others. In such cases we may as well be animals or robots. If there is no space between an insulting stimulus and its immediate conditioned response—anger—then we are in fact under the control of others"
    Liza Deischer: I mean getting angry can become the trigger to be able to let such offences go
    Qt Core: and we need the almost 24 hours to plan our spontaneous acts
    Liza Deischer: heheh
    Wol Euler: yes, liza, there is clearly something to be investigated in *us* every time something upsets us
    Wol Euler reads and nods to Zen.
    Mickorod Renard: thats cool Zen
    Zen Arado: from Andrew Olendzki
    Alfred Kelberry: zen, right. we didn't say anything about anger yet though :)
    Liza Deischer: I did
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, i missed it :)
    Wol Euler: the vacuum cleaner has appeared, we are about to be shut down and driven off home :(
    Liza Deischer: in another context though
    Wol Euler: if I dsappear without farewell, that was the reason
    Zen Arado: being offended leads to anger though?
    Liza Deischer: but it boils all down to the same thing
    Alfred Kelberry: woly...
    Wol Euler sobs
    Alfred Kelberry: :(
    arabella Ella: owwww Wol!
    Alfred Kelberry: *hugs woly*
    Mickorod Renard: it boils down to other people being completely wrong and selfish
    Liza Deischer: I hope it is a big store Wol
    Zen Arado: driven out of Starbucks into a cold wasteland....
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Wol Euler: yep, time to go. Goodnight my dears, enjoy your weekends. Be non-rude and not offended.
    Qt Core: thinking about Death going around with a big vacuum cleaner...
    Mickorod Renard: bye wol
    Zen Arado: nite Wol
    Wol Euler: heheheheheh
    Qt Core: bye Wol ;-)
    Alfred Kelberry: bye woly :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Wol :)
    Wol Euler: nice one, qt
    arabella Ella: nite Wol
    Wol Euler waves
    Alfred Kelberry: um...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Liza Deischer: bye Yaku :)
    arabella Ella: nite Yaku
    Qt Core: 'night Yaku
    arabella Ella: Hey Alf please dont look so lost
    Liza Deischer: I was in time to say goodnight to Yaku :))
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye yaku
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, i'm... resting :)
    Mickorod Renard: is it rude to leave before everyone has said goodbye?
    Alfred Kelberry: silence after a long chat :)
    Liza Deischer: :) Mick
    Zen Arado: only if we take offence :)
    arabella Ella: isnt that cultural too Mick?
    Alfred Kelberry: um, ara... is it a nurse outfit? :)
    arabella Ella: here in the Med it takes at least half an hour to say bye
    arabella Ella: in Germany it takes a few seconds
    Zen Arado: culturallly accepted ideas of what pertains to rudeness
    Alfred Kelberry: in med?
    arabella Ella: um ... Alf ... only if you wish it to be one
    Alfred Kelberry: hehe, ok :)
    arabella Ella: med - mediterranean
    Alfred Kelberry: ah, ok
    Zen Arado: SL goddbyes can be rather speedy :)
    arabella Ella: depends Zen i think it depends on culture too
    Zen Arado: instantaneous even
    Liza Deischer: everything n sl can be rather speedy :)
    Alfred Kelberry: kthxbye :)
    Qt Core: youcan just logout and if someone take offence fake you had a crash ;-)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i can tell qt has a prior experience :)
    Mickorod Renard: some things in sl can be slow, like ejaculation
    Liza Deischer: oops QT :)
    arabella Ella: cool Qt i did not expect that from you :)
    Alfred Kelberry: eja-what?
    Zen Arado: but even in sl there is a cultural norm that you stand up before leaving
    Qt Core: i can be evil too >:-)
    arabella Ella: LOL
    Alfred Kelberry: cutely evil :)
    arabella Ella: show us Qt
    arabella Ella: go on
    arabella Ella: :)
    Zen Arado: ejaculation?
    Mickorod Renard: no, please dont qt
    Alfred Kelberry: what is really slow in sl is rezzing :)
    Liza Deischer: do I here something of excitement in Ara's voice ?
    Alfred Kelberry: i think you're right, liza :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It means "to express something suddenly and impulsively"
    arabella Ella giggles
    Zen Arado: ah of course
    Calvino Rabeni: I looked it up in the dictionary: an abrupt emphatic exclamation expressing emotion
    arabella Ella: are you reading my mind Liza :)
    Calvino Rabeni: like "wow"
    Zen Arado: or......
    Alfred Kelberry: yay!
    Liza Deischer: :) Ara
    Calvino Rabeni: there you go
    Alfred Kelberry: let's all be evil for a minute to make ara happy :)
    arabella Ella: would be really sweet :)
    Liza Deischer: :))
    Alfred Kelberry: >]
    Alfred Kelberry: *zaps ara* :)
    arabella Ella: owwwwww
    arabella Ella: that hurt Alf
    arabella Ella: felt like a mosquito
    Alfred Kelberry: *makes an evil laugh*
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    arabella Ella: good thing my sound if off
    Alfred Kelberry: you know... it's hard being evil
    Qt Core: keeping up the evil smirk all the time...
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    arabella Ella: LOL
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, have you seen bolt?
    Qt Core: a peaceful, maybe even a slightly bored expression is easier ;-)
    Liza Deischer: hmmm, learned a new meaning to the word 'zap'
    Alfred Kelberry: liza :)
    arabella Ella: bolt? whats that?
    Alfred Kelberry: a movie about a cute dog
    Mickorod Renard: ladies and gentlemen, i bed your permision to leave?
    arabella Ella: oh no i didnt
    arabella Ella: you bed Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou for the excelent company
    Zen Arado: you want to bed us Mick?
    arabella Ella: good thing Ags is not here :)
    Alfred Kelberry: sweet dreams mick
    Liza Deischer: bye Mick, sleep well :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes, i bed redilily ara
    Zen Arado: bye Mick
    Liza Deischer: you are dismissed :))
    Alfred Kelberry: liza :)
    Qt Core: 'night Mick, have fun ;-)
    arabella Ella: good night Mick see that you bed well tonight
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou,,nite nite,,sleeptite everyone
    Zen Arado: oh the rest of us are offended then :)
    Zen Arado: I better go too - I'm talking drivel
    arabella Ella: LOL
    arabella Ella: good night Zen
    Calvino Rabeni: I was rereading a classic essay by Alan Watts - still instructive -on how to be a Guru
    Calvino Rabeni: http://dialogic.blogspot.com/2005/04...ster-guru.html
    Liza Deischer: bye Zen :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Good night Zen
    Zen Arado: nite all
    Alfred Kelberry: alrighty, time for me as well
    Alfred Kelberry: thank you all for a lovely evening
    Qt Core: 'night Alfred
    Liza Deischer: nite Alf :)
    Alfred Kelberry: night :)
    Calvino Rabeni: You all are making me feel like taking an afternoon nap,with all this talk of bed :)
    Alfred Kelberry: sweet napping cal :)
    arabella Ella: bye Alf
    arabella Ella: you are the only one present from across the pond Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm getting more inspired by the idea as the moments pass!
    arabella Ella: napping in the afternoon is often considered a very good thing here
    Qt Core: at this time (and day) the only two options are a bed or a disco/pub, cal ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Indeed, a lost art, as some would have it
    arabella Ella nods
    arabella Ella: but not lost everywhere yet
    Liza Deischer: why is it still snowing ?
    arabella Ella: good question
    Qt Core: i try to keep it alive, especially on weekends (that's why i usually miss the goc meeting)
    arabella Ella: nice Qt
    arabella Ella: and me too but only when possible which is not as often as I would like
    Liza Deischer: I need to sleep in the afternoon, or I am dead before the evening starts
    arabella Ella: yes
    Liza Deischer: well, feel like it :)
    arabella Ella: while on a recent holiday in Italy I had a nap nearly every afternoon and it was glorious
    Liza Deischer: :)
    arabella Ella: there is a saying too
    arabella Ella: only mad dogs and englishmen go out in the afternoon sun
    Liza Deischer: hehehe
    Liza Deischer: good thing Mick is gone :)
    arabella Ella: and Alf too?
    Liza Deischer: is he English?
    arabella Ella: not sure but i have a feeling he may be
    arabella Ella: i must go now
    arabella Ella: good night!
    Calvino Rabeni: Right and add Tourists to the list of who goes out in the sun
    Liza Deischer: nite Ara :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Good night, dream well Arabella :)
    arabella Ella: ah not the italian tourists Cal
    Qt Core: 'night Ara
    arabella Ella: they leave the beach at 1300 hrs for lunch
    arabella Ella: and dont go back outdoors till 5pm
    arabella Ella: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Practical wisdom
    arabella Ella: ask Qt
    Qt Core: and nap from 14 to 16
    Liza Deischer: no only the once that are living more up north, like me :)
    Liza Deischer: oh no, not me :)
    arabella Ella: must go
    Liza Deischer: *ones
    arabella Ella: cya
    Liza Deischer: cya
    Qt Core: the blissful feeling of being on the verge of sleep during the day, even seeing the light from outside...
    Qt Core: and knowing you aren't going to be late or miss something you should do
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Qt Core: Hi Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: aarghs ! ;o) - heavy snow (!) and hello you :-)
    Red Alchemi: helllo
    Bertram Jacobus: i brought red with me ... :-)
    Liza Deischer: hi bert
    Qt Core: Hi Red
    Liza Deischer: hi Red
    Red Alchemi: hii all
    Bertram Jacobus: hope, not to disturb or even to dissolve the late meeting ! ;-)
    Liza Deischer: no, np
    Bertram Jacobus: good - red was interested and curious what happens here ... :-)
    Qt Core: you still may awole us (we are speaking about napping) ;-)
    Red Alchemi: that is correct
    Qt Core: awoke
    Liza Deischer: I'm afraid he can beter come back some other time
    Bertram Jacobus: awake ? :-)
    Liza Deischer: we are only talking about sleeping :)
    Liza Deischer: I hope you notice Bert the recording is still on
    Bertram Jacobus: "no" we talked about that it is already time out of the normal times - so we don´t have heavy exspections i guess ... (?) ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: sure - red read all that already in the notecard - recording here is ok for you ?
    Bertram Jacobus: red ?
    Red Alchemi: no problem
    Red Alchemi: but i am the first time here
    Bertram Jacobus: great - i thought so :-)
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. and this question is a duty for us - otherwise we would wipe out the people´s comments if they were not agreeing ... but that nearly ever happens - right pabers ? ;-)
    Liza Deischer: no comment
    Bertram Jacobus: huh ? ;-9+
    Liza Deischer: to me the recording is a complicated question
    Qt Core: i think it happened today, someone rezzed here and went away after a little, maybe after someone explaining pab in im
    Liza Deischer: but I guess generally you are right
    Bertram Jacobus: ah ! i see ... :-)
    Liza Deischer: Wol normally does
    Bertram Jacobus: and somebody brought snow, hm ... :-)
    Qt Core: i have to admit i asked the goc of a session to delete something i sayd wgen i was too engrossed in a discussion and said too much
    Liza Deischer: yes, we think Alf is the guilty one, but we don't understand it is still snowing since he is gone
    Bertram Jacobus: and today i decided definitly to join the retreat in october in stuttgart (!) :-)
    Liza Deischer: ah, good to here
    Qt Core: nice
    Liza Deischer: *hear
    Liza Deischer: at least I found out tonight I need a better scarf :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. good
    Red Alchemi: sometimes i have a feeling snow will fall next in RL
    Red Alchemi: it is getting cold
    Bertram Jacobus: what ? i don´t think so ! not so soon at least ...
    Qt Core: yeah, only 27C ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: for sure we don´t hope also i guess (?) ;-)
    Qt Core: not now, but in early afternoon
    Liza Deischer: first autumn
    Liza Deischer: falling leaves, nice colours
    Liza Deischer: some yellow sunshine
    Liza Deischer: mushrooms
    Liza Deischer: soup
    Qt Core: not yet here, some great greens after the rains in past days
    Liza Deischer: a little fire
    Liza Deischer: ah yes, things florish after a nice rainfall
    Calvino Rabeni likes it when Liza says "florish"
    Liza Deischer: flourish?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Liza Deischer: ah :)
    Qt Core: in mid september many of the road i travel are well mantained as it is Monza Gp time so they want to be at their best (i have to traverse Monza for going to work
    Qt Core: so it is somewhat a tradition
    Liza Deischer: ah :)
    Red Alchemi: sleep well all
    Red Alchemi: good night
    Bertram Jacobus: bye and good nite red
    Qt Core: on the other side for a few days elicopters on the sky at every hours
    Qt Core: 'night Red
    Liza Deischer: nite Red
    Bertram Jacobus: why is that snow here ?
    Qt Core: someone was speaking of summer end and this happened
    Bertram Jacobus: strange ...
    Qt Core: luckily it soes not stay ;-)
    Qt Core: does
    Bertram Jacobus: wouldn´t you like stopping that ?
    Qt Core: ywa, but how ?
    Bertram Jacobus: (i´d ask storm) ...
    Bertram Jacobus: did it now ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: there help comes ! :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hoi storm ! much too cold for this time of the year
    Bertram Jacobus: yaaaay - ty ! :-)
    Qt Core: ty
    Storm Nordwind takes a bow
    Qt Core: brb
    Bertram Jacobus feels much more comfortable now ...
    Liza Deischer: ah, feels much better :)
    Bertram Jacobus: nice. happy to read that. feared , somebody wouldn´t like it when snow stops
    Liza Deischer: too early for me, snow
    Liza Deischer: I like winter, but not yet
    Qt Core: like winter but hate snow
    Qt Core: last winter it toke me 9 hours to drive home the usual 20 km
    Qt Core: under the snow
    Bertram Jacobus: same here : too early for such ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: would somebody perhaps like to go dancin a bit ? ...
    Liza Deischer: no thanks, to late for me
    Bertram Jacobus: okay ...
    Liza Deischer: *too
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, i´ll do so - so ... bfn ? all beings happy ? *wave* ? :-)
    Liza Deischer: bye Bert :)
    Qt Core: have fun bert!
    Bertram Jacobus: ty :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Well ... I shall make good on my earlier notion of leaving - was struck with inertia
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye for now, Liza/QT/Bert
    Qt Core: Bye Cal
    Liza Deischer: bye Cal :)
    Liza Deischer: going too
    Qt Core: Night Liza
    Liza Deischer: nite QT

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