2010.09.12 07:00 - Hiding Desires from God

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

    Adams Rubble: Good Morning Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Adams.
    Adams Rubble: Is that a rocket pack or are you planning a trip?
    Bruce Mowbray: I thought it might help me get around in Sl a bit better.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: how are you?
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, I'm working through a few challenges - - but, all in all, I'm fine. Thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: And you?
    Adams Rubble: I am glad you are fine and I hope the challenges go well
    Adams Rubble: I am facing some challenges too in RL :)
    Adams Rubble: but I am well too
    Adams Rubble: I read something interesting this week that might interest you
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Adams. . . I am using a laptop with a very slow video card. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: please let me switch to my desktop.
    Adams Rubble: I figured you had some lag there
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Bruce Mowbray: It will take a few minutes, sbut i will be right back. OK?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: np
    Adams Rubble: Hello adoro :)
    adoro Rhapsody: hi adams
    Adams Rubble: Nice to see you :)
    Adams Rubble: Bruce is changing computers
    adoro Rhapsody: me too
    adoro Rhapsody: i see
    adoro Rhapsody: i was watching a home of a friend of bertram
    Adams Rubble: Ohhh, in RL?
    adoro Rhapsody: that was married in sl
    adoro Rhapsody: in sl
    Adams Rubble: :)
    adoro Rhapsody: looked very nice
    adoro Rhapsody: but i think ist nice here too
    Adams Rubble: wn Bruce
    adoro Rhapsody: hi bruce
    Adams Rubble: yes adoro, it is very nice here :)
    adoro Rhapsody: r u in NY now ?
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Adams. sorry for that delay.
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, adoro.
    Adams Rubble: nice people here
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Bruce Mowbray: nope -- I amin Ohio - but will be in New York next week.
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Adams Rubble: It is raining here...much needed rain
    Adams Rubble: nice to here the sound
    Bruce Mowbray: we need rain desperately here.
    adoro Rhapsody: 6 hours before we made a 90 seconds silence for the ppl who died in Grond zero
    Bruce Mowbray: wonderful.
    adoro Rhapsody: ground
    Bruce Mowbray: That is appropriate -- I am happy to hear that you did that, adoro.
    adoro Rhapsody: a dutch man geert Wilders has spoken a speach at ground zero
    Bruce Mowbray: I see. Have you ever been there. adoro - and/or Adams?
    adoro Rhapsody: a protest against buildingplans for mosk
    adoro Rhapsody: no never been there
    Adams Rubble: I live fairly close, so yes Bruce

    Dutch Settlers in America

    Adams Rubble: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes! I know, adoro -- Your ancestors!
    Adams Rubble: The Dutch settled much of New Jersey too
    adoro Rhapsody: so i can see with streetview
    adoro Rhapsody: and youtube
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, adoro -- the tiny village closest to my farm is called "New Holland"
    adoro Rhapsody: how life is there
    adoro Rhapsody: nice
    adoro Rhapsody: we have old bands
    Bruce Mowbray: Do you have Google Earth, adoro?
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Adams Rubble: The country roads around here mostly have Dutch names
    Bruce Mowbray: OK -- then you can see a lot of street views with that too.
    adoro Rhapsody: and google streetview
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    adoro Rhapsody: waiting for google streetview life

    Hiding Desires from God

    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Adams. . . you mentioned that you were reading something - just before I made my abrupt exit.
    Adams Rubble: yes
    adoro Rhapsody: with real time cams instead of pictures
    Bruce Mowbray: care to say more about that?
    Adams Rubble: As you may know I am slowly reading "Clouds of Unknowing: by an anonymous 14c English monk
    adoro Rhapsody: interesting
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes -- I read that about thirty years ago.
    Bruce Mowbray: please say more.
    Adams Rubble: The author said that we should hide our desires from God
    Bruce Mowbray: mmmmm.....
    adoro Rhapsody: hide ?
    Adams Rubble: He did not explain what that means and noted God would be able to see them anyway
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Adams Rubble: but that we should do our best not to show them
    Bruce Mowbray: ok.
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Adams Rubble: It is interesting in liht of our discussions about hiding here
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes --- but in our practice, we do NOT hide.
    adoro Rhapsody: hiding or be open
    adoro Rhapsody: about averything
    adoro Rhapsody: everything
    Adams Rubble: well we want to dicover all the things we are hiding from ourselves, of course
    Adams Rubble: discover
    adoro Rhapsody: or hiding behind an avtar ?
    adoro Rhapsody: avatar
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Adams Rubble: but it would seem to me that hiding our desires is a way of putting them away
    Adams Rubble: hehe adoro
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Adams Rubble: and when we are meditating or praying our desires creep in
    adoro Rhapsody: TAO says it high to have no desires
    Bruce Mowbray: In the Cloud of Unknowing, as I vaguely recall, the author makes quite a point of "pounding at" or battering at the clouds -- in order to break through them to God.
    Adams Rubble: not quite Bruce
    Adams Rubble: he is comfortable with the clouds
    Bruce Mowbray: His images (or HER images) are interesting - but, I am afraid, quite different from the images I am comfortable with in my own practice.
    Adams Rubble: between God and himself
    adoro Rhapsody: has it somehing to do with cloud computing ?
    Adams Rubble: that if God is knowable, he is not God
    Bruce Mowbray: He IS comfortable with the clouds?
    Bruce Mowbray: Why, I wonder, am I remembering this so wrongly?
    adoro Rhapsody: sorry
    Bruce Mowbray: must have something to do with the condition I was in at the time I read that book.
    Adams Rubble: I am not siure what cloud computing is adoro :)
    adoro Rhapsody: like google g-mail
    Bruce Mowbray: cloud computing is like - using Google's applications on the web instead of in your own computer..
    Adams Rubble: There is a better translaation available than the old one Bruce
    adoro Rhapsody: you can use it its free
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, gmail is a good example -
    Bruce Mowbray: also word processing and spreadsheets, etc.
    Adams Rubble: ahh, Thanks
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    adoro Rhapsody: computer software as a service
    Bruce Mowbray: OK. Well, adams. . . can you say more about your thoughts regarding the Cloud of Unknowing?
    adoro Rhapsody: you can use it and others pay for it by marketing
    Adams Rubble is not sure there are any more thoughts at the moment :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Is that one of hte RL challenges you mentioned earlier?
    Adams Rubble: ohhh, no Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: ok.
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean to pry.
    adoro Rhapsody: TAO says its high to have no knowledge
    Adams Rubble: except I don;t have time to read much
    adoro Rhapsody: well i ll shut my mouth
    Bruce Mowbray: In fact, adoro, the entire Tao te Ching begins with a disclaimer about speech and knowledge:
    adoro Rhapsody: a disclaimer ?
    Bruce Mowbray: a statement about what CANNOT be written or talked about.
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Adams Rubble: I don't know muuch about Daoism adoro, but please do not take my silence for meaning your comments aren't wwelcome
    Bruce Mowbray: our inability to do something.
    Bruce Mowbray: Your comments are MOST welcome, adoro!
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: but maybe i interrupt too much your discussion
    Adams Rubble: no adoro, it is fine :)
    adoro Rhapsody: or bring u on other thoughts
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    Bruce Mowbray: It's just that we have over-lapping in the chat box -- nothing much we can do about that .
    Adams Rubble: with text chat we can have two or three discussions going on at once :)
    Bruce Mowbray: yes. . . the over-lapping of discussions is something we're all used to.
    adoro Rhapsody: multi chatting
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Bruce Mowbray: so, please go ahead, adoro - if you wanted to say more about the Tao.
    Adams Rubble: then once in a while we all stop to think it over :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Stop, drop, and contemplate!
    adoro Rhapsody: i hav no more to say at tthis moment
    Adams Rubble: :)
    adoro Rhapsody: stop till u dropp
    Bruce Mowbray wonders if he (Bruce) will EVER have nothing to say
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, adoro -- In our "Time Magic" sessions, one of the things we do is "drop what we have" to BE what we are.
    adoro Rhapsody: whats the thing on your back Bruce ?
    Bruce Mowbray: That is my jet pack.
    adoro Rhapsody: wow
    Bruce Mowbray: It helps me fly around in SL.
    Adams Rubble: that statement is one fo the early PaB statements
    Adams Rubble: hehe, Thanks Bruce
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    Bruce Mowbray: OK. So "drop what you have" is a tradition in PaB. I didn't realize that.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Fox :)
    Bruce Mowbray: You both look very dashing in your new jetpacks!
    Adams Rubble: It has been a long time :)
    adoro Rhapsody: hi fox
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Fox.
    Fox Monacular: oh, I want one too:)
    Bruce Mowbray: OK, Fox. . . just a moment....
    Fox Monacular: really? wow!
    Fox Monacular: awesome, thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: I have to take my own off before I am allowed to give it to anyone else.
    Adams Rubble: yes, one of the rules of SL :)
    Bruce Mowbray: How are you today, Fox?
    Adams Rubble: the fish must have a hard time keeping up or does he have one too?
    Bruce Mowbray: he he!
    Bruce Mowbray: Blub manages to keep up with me no matter how fast I fly.
    Fox Monacular: I'm on vacation:) internet is slow;_)
    Adams Rubble: I hope you are having a good vacation :)
    adoro Rhapsody: well i go to leave for making dinner
    adoro Rhapsody: bye all
    Adams Rubble: bye adoro :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Have a good dinner, adoro!
    adoro Rhapsody: was nice talking to u both
    Adams Rubble: you too adoro
    Bruce Mowbray: good talking with you too, adoro.
    adoro Rhapsody: thnx
    Bruce Mowbray: Adoro lives in Amsterdam.
    Fox Monacular: sorry, I need to go too:(
    Fox Monacular: good to see you
    Adams Rubble: bye Fox :)
    Bruce Mowbray: OK. Fox. Good to see you again, too.
    Adams Rubble: nice to see you too
    Bruce Mowbray: Have you read Chapter 5 yet?
    Adams Rubble: no, not yet. have you?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes -- three times.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: would you like to comment?
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps. . .

    Presence, Time, Timlessness

    Bruce Mowbray: It is a continuation of chapter 4 ---
    Bruce Mowbray: a refinement, in a way.
    Bruce Mowbray: Pema reviews everything so far . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: then comes back to appreciating the PRESENCE...
    Bruce Mowbray: ... of the appearance...
    Bruce Mowbray: Then steps a mini-step further...
    Adams Rubble: I read a little bit
    Adams Rubble: during the break
    Adams Rubble: yes, I see
    Bruce Mowbray: by asking us to appreciate the presence of appearance AS Time.
    Adams Rubble: funny typo in there
    Adams Rubble: hmmm, did not get that far
    Bruce Mowbray: I was actually doing that last week.
    Bruce Mowbray: This week I will have a lot of free time.
    Adams Rubble: I think of presence as timelessness
    Adams Rubble: in that sense, the connector
    Bruce Mowbray: so I intend to devote a lot of that time to letting Time do its presenting . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: and appreciating that presentation AS Time.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, timelessness is really quite an important part of this, I feel.
    Adams Rubble: when I think of timlessness I think of how I am connected to every human being who ever lived or will live
    Bruce Mowbray: indeed.
    Bruce Mowbray: and connected to everything else, as well.
    Bruce Mowbray: no separation.
    Adams Rubble: yes, iff we think that far :)
    Adams Rubble: the next step
    Bruce Mowbray: The practice sort of "thinks ME" - if you get my meaning.
    Bruce Mowbray: It sort of takes off by itself.
    Bruce Mowbray: I mentioned that last week in my report.
    Bruce Mowbray: My intention is only a slight nudging...
    Bruce Mowbray: and then the practice seems to "know the way" to go.
    Bruce Mowbray: sort of wu wei - like.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: (no jet packs required).
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: amazing how when we stop and let things happen, they just do
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    Bruce Mowbray: what a relief from not having to be in control.
    Adams Rubble: we have to be in the right frame of mind though
    Adams Rubble: to get the signal
    Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
    Adams Rubble: or to hear
    Adams Rubble: or see


    Bruce Mowbray: The term "frame" is really looming large in my practice right now.
    Bruce Mowbray: The first thing that I noticed was disappearing when I began with Chapter 5 was FRAMES.
    Adams Rubble: would you say more, I don;t quite understand
    Bruce Mowbray: well, this has been on my mind a lot since Friday night...
    Bruce Mowbray: when a good friend and I talked about "personal boundaries."
    Bruce Mowbray: so I'd been thinking about "boundaries" of all sorts. . . especially emotional boundaries.
    Bruce Mowbray: and so this morning, when I did Pema's practice...
    Bruce Mowbray: I noticed that frames (boundaries of all sorts) began disappearing.
    Adams Rubble: I think I understand but I iuse a different metaphor
    Adams Rubble: I think of them as enclosed spaces
    Adams Rubble: like boxes
    Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza and Aphrodite :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ok. So cubical instead of just square or rectangular?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adama, Bruce, Aph....
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph and Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: passing by...
    Adams Rubble: they are quite dark and ugly, spearated from the light
    Bruce Mowbray: yes. I will be at the meeting in two minutes.
    Bruce Mowbray: ok, Adams. . .
    Adams Rubble: no not cubical, they can be roundish, like the things in a Bosch painting
    Adams Rubble: yes, meeting soon
    Bruce Mowbray: nope -- we are talking about boundaries in other areas -- like emotional boundaries or boundaries of thought-categories.
    Adams Rubble: but quite ugly :)
    Bruce Mowbray: OK. I understand "things in a Bosch" painting. . . (a bit scary there!)
    Adams Rubble: wonderful when we can break out into the brightly lit great space
    Bruce Mowbray: I shapp very much look forward to reading your report this week, adams.
    Bruce Mowbray: shall.
    Adams Rubble: oh my
    Bruce Mowbray: I shall be jet packing my way to the Village Hall now.
    Adams Rubble: hehe, yes me too
    Adams Rubble: the session is over

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