2010.09.14 01:00 - To find the purpose

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.

    I had a good conversation with Lawrence Vyceratops about what people look for in PaB.

    Wester Kiranov: hi lawrence
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Wester :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Slow night.
    Wester Kiranov: slow morning, here :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: How did you become nterested in becoming a PaB Host, Wester?
    Wester Kiranov: Gradually, I think.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Haha
    Wester Kiranov: I had met Piet/Pema IRL in 2001 and 2002
    Wester Kiranov: And in 2008 (I think) I heard that he was doing something on SL
    Wester Kiranov: so I came around. First to Kira cafe and then to PaB.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, you became in interested in the idea of PaB...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: in what way?
    Wester Kiranov: My first impression was that it was pretty weird here. But then I tried the 9-second practice, and I thought it was a good one
    Wester Kiranov: and I got to know the people, and the open atmosphere
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, do you think it good in the sense of pleasure or entertainment?
    Wester Kiranov: Occasionally
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I am trying to get a sense of the purpose of this place and the intention of the participants.
    Wester Kiranov: But I come for the sense of community, and for the openness
    Wester Kiranov: And I think this place helps me to learn to allow, to let be
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To let be what?
    Wester Kiranov: to let people and situations be what they are and speak for themselves
    Wester Kiranov: It's actually something I only noticed after having been here for a while
    Lawrence Vyceratops: It seems to me that a lot of people are dissatisfied with something about themselves and they find some kind of comfort in places like this (in RL and SL).
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps, for some, they see communities as some kind of therapy.
    Wester Kiranov: Could be. BTW, why are you here? What attracts you to PaB?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I am interested in the problems of the world and speaking with others about these problems to see what kind of thinking can occur between us to seriously address these problems; problems such as war, economic inequality and such.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I am seeking a way of thinking among peopole to address these problems.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Without such a purpose, wherein lies the meaning of our everyday activities and ambitions?
    Wester Kiranov: Do you feel that the way of thinking is at the root of these problems?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I do.
    Wester Kiranov: Could you elaborate a bit?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, for one, we think mostly of ourselves. Our society had trained us to be so concerned about ourselves - more than others.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We are so concerned with climbing the imaginary social ladder, a very inhumane way of thinking, I believe.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To put one person above another is inhumane. It is to make one human less human than another.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: There are many problems in thinking such as this.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, I come to PaB to see what kind of thinking there is here.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To find out the purose.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I have been to a few Buddhists pllaces n SL. So far, not much...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Mostly, people seem to be concerned with how they feel about themsleves.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Seems to me, that is.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But I think we should be more concerned with everyone.
    Wester Kiranov: Are there places where you feel people think less about themselves and more about others than in other places?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I don't go to places where people show off what kind of dress they bought themselves, so surely there must be places like that.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Where the point is not to show off but to try to solve a problem - a prolbme of humanity.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I had hoped that PaB might be a oplace where people look inside and seewhat makes us human and see that in everyone, opening our minds to the need to develop compassion.
    Wester Kiranov: and what do you find, now you know PaB a bit?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Not like many things that merely distract our minds from real prolbems of the world, but allow us to focus.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I find many people are looking for entertainment, a distracfyion from everyday life.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: distraction
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To me, I feel we must focus, not distract, but focus on everyday life, because we miss it.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: It goes by and we miss it.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: And we prolong the problems our civilization faces.
    Wester Kiranov: Focus on everyday life. I think that's a nice point.
    Wester Kiranov: What do you feel abou the 9 second practice? Does that help you at all?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, I'm from America. We are always seeking distraction from everyday life - we seek the extraodinary to distract our attention.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: If the 9 second helps someone to focus, that is fine,
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I feel that I do things similar, so the 9 second does not do a lot for me, personally.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Every night my attention is on the problem.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Each day I wonder when humanty will wake up to see that every human being is a human being.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: As long as there is deep purpose, the 9 seconds is great. if it is just another distraction, it becomes meaningless, I think.
    Wester Kiranov: That's an interesting idea, 9 second as a distraction. BUt then, any idea can be used as a distraction.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: A distraction is fine, like a break or a rest, but what I mean is that most of the things we do is treated as a distraction from the problems of the world.
    Wester Kiranov: I think one of the things that 9 seconds does is help you see that you are distracted.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: That would be good.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For starters, that is good, but thern there has to be more.
    Wester Kiranov: Because so often, you are not willing to let go what you are doing, not even for something as small as 9 seconds.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, I see that problem.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But then there must be more. To focus on real problems of the world.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To focus on them would also facilitate letting go of what one is doing, especially if it is rather meaningless.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Just to let go for the sake of letting go, might be minimally effective. There must be a deeper purpose.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For real change and insight, I think.
    Wester Kiranov: Could you be a bit more specific about that deeper purpose?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To addreess the problems of humanity - war, violence, inequality, values, etc.
    Wester Kiranov: Isn't there something underneath that wish?
    Wester Kiranov: somehow you want to alleviate suffering, not just for yourself , but for others
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes. For everyone, if possible.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For humans, other animals, the ecosystem, the Earth, etc.
    Wester Kiranov: That sounds worthwhile ;)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Precisely.
    Wester Kiranov: But you can't do all of that at once. Where will you start?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you mean? Do all what at once?
    Wester Kiranov: or, where have you started
    Lawrence Vyceratops: When I was very, very young, my father told me about the scars that were still pink. As I grew older, I understood war more and the scars slowly turned white.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: During his healing, which took many years, it gave me much time to think agout war and pain and suffereing.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I suppose that it where I started.
    Wester Kiranov: I mean, where does the action start? You can't stop war and save the ecosystem and all those things at once
    Lawrence Vyceratops: No, but I can talk to and reason with peopole.
    Wester Kiranov: I suppose that's as good a starting point as any :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: It is because people's way of thinking that we are where we are today. If people thought differently, the wolrd would be a different place.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I can't make peopole change their minds, but I may say something that they never thought about before. I have changed my way of thinking all throughout my life, due to things I have heard other say.
    Wester Kiranov: I want to thank you for a very good conversation, but RL is calling now.
    Wester Kiranov: Bye
    Wester Kiranov: namaste
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Thank you, Wester. Bye :)

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