2010.09.14 07:00 -3 sessions in one

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways. Beware this is long, but I think very good.

    After a couple weeks of very quiet (and unfulfilling (personally)) sessions.  This (to me) was a special session.  Actually, it was like several sessions at the same time slot.  Two hours of different chat.  And there is nothing better then a big disagreement the borders agruements to get a rich dialogue going.

    1. I appolloguize (sp?) :) to all that ran away screaming from the circle when it got heated.  (Sometimes) these chats are just too full of always agree-able play nice avs.
    2. Linden did routine maintainence on our pavillion.  That messed up our session.  And that made for ... well you'll see.
    3. As with many other sessions:
     a. there are multiple words that could be used and one of them might be just wrong.
     b. there are typoes and mis-speeling that can send us off into ...

         Riddle Sideways: Good Morning, PaB
         Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Riddle and Aph.
              Riddle Sideways: ah, good morning... I was off reading
          Aphrodite Macbain: Good morning!
    Bruce Mowbray: np, Riddle. Hey, Aph, I see you're doing some fine landscaping up at the plots.
              Riddle Sideways: when I can not spell a word I look it up
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. I cant get the dirt from under my fingrnails
              Riddle Sideways: next to it will be an interesting link
    Riddle Sideways: green thumbs?
              Bruce Mowbray: an excellent idea, Riddle.
    Aphrodite Macbain: When are you going to start planting Bruce?
              Riddle Sideways: hours later, I forget what I was looking up
    Bruce Mowbray: When I get a bit more time, Aph. I've already planted two trees, though.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh. I haven't had a chance to look this morning
              Bruce Mowbray: I have that same problem, Riddle. . .
    Riddle Sideways: Trees are very good to plant
              Bruce Mowbray: in fact, I find that I am now second-guessing myself on spellings a lot.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I planted an oak tree in teh central square. I hope that's OK with you Bruce
    Riddle Sideways: though I never knew they were such trouble planting trees in SL
             Bruce Mowbray: Yesterday, for example, I felt I had to look up "assiduous" -- couldn't remember whether it was two "s's" or just one.
              Bruce Mowbray: That's a sign of old age, perhaps.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I saw your oak -- and it is BEAUTIFUL!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Head too full of stuff
          Bruce Mowbray: Yeah -- yet another reason to come here - in order to 'drop' it for a while, and on a regular basis.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh good. I put some rocks and leaves around just to make it authentic. I alwasy thing a good commons needs an oak tree
    Bruce Mowbray: and an excellent oak it is, too!
    Aphrodite Macbain: always think
              Riddle Sideways: Today I was looking up "shanah tovah u'metuka"
    Bruce Mowbray: I have one about twice that tall in my front yard.
             Aphrodite Macbain: why?
    Riddle Sideways: typos here at PaB are the best parts
             Aphrodite Macbain: (Asking Riddle)
             Aphrodite Macbain: shana tova u'metuka =?
             Bruce Mowbray wonders what shanah tovah u'metuka means, is, and/or wants.
             Riddle Sideways: It is a greeting during these days of Awe and comtemplation
             Riddle Sideways: "may the new year be one of peace and good..."
             Aphrodite Macbain: Mazel tov
             Riddle Sideways: or "May this be a year of peace, happiness, blessings, prosperity, and redemption!"
             Bruce Mowbray: I love such greetings - whatever traditions or language they might emerge from.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Redemption?
             Riddle Sideways: there is a period of 8 days between Rashashah and Yom Kippur for contemplation
             Riddle Sideways: the days of Awe
             Riddle Sideways: to reflect
             Riddle Sideways: like many do at any new year
             Aphrodite Macbain: days of awe - it sounds a bit like appreciating the appearance of things
             Bruce Mowbray: Yom Kippur will be this coming Saturday.
             Riddle Sideways: yes, sounds exactly like it to me
         Aphrodite Macbain: How will you celebrate it Riddle?
         Riddle Sideways: there is this little (or big) part of celebrate that I really like and try to do
         Aphrodite Macbain: How will you celebrate?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning everyone
         Riddle Sideways: it is written that G-d forgives, but for transgesions against other people
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Yaku and "May this be a year of peace, happiness, blessings, prosperity, and redemption!"
         Riddle Sideways: they must be the ones to forgive
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Yak
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Yaku. Good to (sort of) see you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sort of ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
          Riddle Sideways: So for all those mistakes I did against another over the year
          Aphrodite Macbain: Is there a ceremony attached to forgiving?
          Riddle Sideways: I need to ask forgivness
    Bruce Mowbray sees everyone just fine.

    Thus begins the mis-spelling...
          Riddle Sideways: appolgize (sp?)
          Riddle Sideways: no ceremony,
          Riddle Sideways: just phone or walk up to somebody
          Aphrodite Macbain: Oh - so you actually apologize to people
          Riddle Sideways: and explain that when I called you an As-hole.
          Riddle Sideways: I did not really mean it
          Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
          Riddle Sideways: please forgive me, it was the drugs
          Aphrodite Macbain: How can you remember all those times!!?
          Riddle Sideways: well, if you sit really quietly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey lawrence
         Riddle Sideways: and cast your mind back
              Bruce Mowbray recalls that when he looked up the word "assiduous" yesterday, he found that word Riddle just used coming right before assiduous.
         Riddle Sideways: those moments come through
    The power of negitive thoughts and memories is that they bubble right to the surface.

    Aphrodite Macbain thinks its funny that I can't see Yaku and Bruce can
                Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Lawrence. "May this be a year of peace, happiness, blessings, prosperity, and redemption!"
                 Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Lawrence. Welcome
    Bruce Mowbray: Although my Internet connection is quite slow, Aph, I have a very fast viseo card in my computer -- that might be the reason.
    Bruce Mowbray: video.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: somehow i have an issue with my alt
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sartre isn´t rezzing at all lately
                 Riddle Sideways: welcome, Lawrence
        The subject returns to which SL viewer.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it doesn´t matter which viewer i am using
    Bruce Mowbray: Have you recently switched viewers, Yaku?
    Aphrodite Macbain is reieved to finally see yaku in his black and whiteness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i used all
    Aphrodite Macbain: relieved
    Yakuzza Lethecus: radegast,imprudence,v2

         Messages about 5 minutes to region reboot start coming to us.
          Bruce Mowbray: Uh oh -- They will be kicking us all out of here in a short while.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: emerald phoenix
    Aphrodite Macbain: it's a combo??
          Yakuzza Lethecus: looks like a short session today
    Yakuzza Lethecus: phoenix is based on emrald
          Aphrodite Macbain: but long in content
          Bruce Mowbray: I wish we could have continued that discussion about forgiveness, apoligy, and redemption, Riddle.
          Lawrence Vyceratops: So, how long do they keep us out during maintenance?
             Bruce Mowbray: apology.
             Bruce Mowbray apologizes for misspelling apology.
          Yakuzza Lethecus: we could escape to the kira cafe :)
              Aphrodite Macbain: stop it Bruce!
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Ah. Good thinking. haha
         Bruce Mowbray: cool! Let's do what Yaku suggests!
         Bruce Mowbray: I am going there right now.
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Ok.
         Yakuzza Lethecus: ähm, our host is riddle
             Aphrodite Macbain: OK last one there has to apologize
         Riddle Sideways: so we are being kicked?
         Yakuzza Lethecus: going to be
             Lawrence Vyceratops: haha
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Apparently, Riddle.
         Riddle Sideways: what happens if I stay here?
         Bruce Mowbray: I can't TP there -- so will have to walk.
        Yakuzza Lethecus: you get logged out of SL
        Bruce Mowbray: I think they will be clearing this whole area, Riddle -- but I'm not sure how that works.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: It said the Region.
         Yakuzza Lethecus: but possibly the kira kafe might also be shut down since it´s also close
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Is the Kira Cafe in the same Region?
    Confusion turns to Panic!!!
         Yakuzza Lethecus: what are we going to do
         Yakuzza Lethecus: no
         Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s in baikun
         Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s a neigbour sim
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, we can see. If it is shut down, the next meeting is at 1:00! ;)
         Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, it´s unavailible allready :)
         Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, yes
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Why did that say whisper?
            The log had a "whisper:" (that is lost)
    Riddle Sideways wonders about walking over that that border
        Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i log out since baikun seems to be close
         Bruce Mowbray: We could go to the Quaker Meeting house -- I know that no one is there.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lm ?
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Kira Cafe is unavailable....
         Yakuzza Lethecus: but we are running out of time :D
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Could not teleport... Region unavailable...
         Riddle Sideways: not sure, I might try staying here
         Riddle Sideways: well, see you soon :)
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Ok

    At this point that session ends...

    Stay tuned...

    What the Hill will happen to our heroes.  What is their fate.  Why is this happening...


    [Well, all you followers of 'Listener Master' goings on, There is a very strange software problem here.
    Seems when all the session ppl run screaming away and the chat log "claimee" walks a distance away, the session recording ends.  As it should.
    However, if the region crashes and our second livies come to an end.  And then before 15 minutes, live as we might know it comes back into existance...    well the logging is not in pretty shape for a long time.
    I touched, kicked and swore.  Finally I got a "recording" message.  Then later had to claim it again.]


    Did I say this was a really fun, playful, "Awesome" and thrilling session?  Well, read on !

    Our intripid GoC walks several meters to the border (I have my red border line renderer on) to the next region.

    It appears I have lost my textpad macros for removing the timestamps.


    [07:33] Riddle Sideways's PaB Listener: No longer recording. Have a nice day. :)
    [07:33] Second Life: You just entered a region using a different server version, which may affect performance. View the release notes.
         My Dragon is upset too.  [Storm he can't anim off my plot :(].
    [07:34] Little Red Dragon: Riddle Sideways, I am lost at:Bieup<132.08025, 90.71581, 103.05747>

    6 minutes that will live in infame(y?)

    I IM the others to come back.

    [07:40] Riddle Sideways: WOW, what a trip, man
    [07:41] Riddle Sideways: I walked over to the next region (Hangeul)
    [07:41] Riddle Sideways: turned and watched the pagoda disappear
    [07:42] Riddle Sideways: the oceans swallowed up the land
    [07:42] Riddle Sideways: a couple meters from my feet the waters started
    [07:42] Lawrence Vyceratops: I bet that was cool
    [07:42] Bruce Mowbray: yes, that's what happens when SL clears a region.
    [07:43] Lawrence Vyceratops: brb
    [07:43] Riddle Sideways: then there was a flash of red bordering lines, only deep
    [07:44] Bruce Mowbray: I receive that same message almost every time I TP, Riddle.
    [07:44] Riddle Sideways: then the land started to return (rez)
        [07:44] Bruce Mowbray: I don't understand that -- because the only viewer I ever use in Version 2.
        [07:44] Riddle Sideways: yes, I use V2 also
                [07:44] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Conversations here are recorded when ON AIR. Please see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
                [07:44] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Please observe 90 seconds of silence.
    [07:45] Bruce Mowbray: The Lindens clear every region on a regular basis -- I don't know how frequently that happens, though.
        [07:45] Bruce Mowbray: It's sort of like a mass "apology," a bit.
    [07:45] Bruce Mowbray: Like, "Sorry - I take it all back. . . Let's start over."
    [07:45] Riddle Sideways: we modern peoples understand these software/virtual things
    [07:46] Riddle Sideways: but what of the ancients?
    [07:46] Riddle Sideways: "And the Seas consumed the land"
               ha ha. we did not stop for 90 [07:46] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you.
    [07:46] Bruce Mowbray: another Deluge?
        [07:47] Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Hana!
    [07:47] Bruce Mowbray: You just barely missed the Great Flood.
    [07:47] Riddle Sideways: Moses parted the Red Sea and they walked across Buyeo un-drowned
        [07:47] Riddle Sideways: Hi Hana
         [07:48] Hana Furlough: Hi all
    [07:48] Riddle Sideways: then the Egyptions started to cross and the Lindens (G-d??) un-rez them
    [07:48] Bruce Mowbray: ha!
    [07:49] Lawrence Vyceratops: back :)
    [07:49] Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Hana
    [07:49] Lawrence Vyceratops: ...and the spaghetti monster came down and covered everyone in tomato sauce.
    [07:49] Bruce Mowbray: For me, the wonderful thing about such stories is that the out-picture archetypes -- structures of meaning that are available in every culture and religious tradition.
        [07:50] Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Ed.
    [07:50] Riddle Sideways: and why should not our modern software present to us as the ancients saw it
    [07:50] Bruce Mowbray: and also available both communally and personally.
        [07:50] Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Ed.
        [07:50] Riddle Sideways: Hi Edw
         [07:50] Edwnly Revestel: hello
         [07:50] Hana Furlough: Hi Ed
    Ok, Guardian's I missed the meeting Sunday.
    I have been meeting guests/newbies off in IM chat.  Probably not correct, but it keeps it out of the log.  Once discovered that they are not just somebody I don't remember.  I give a notecard (which today I could not find quickly) and ask about recording.
    Edwnly decided not to be recorded and sat silent the remainder of the session.  I IM'ed with Edwnly sometimes.
    This is the method I use, maybe it is wrong. Thanks Bruce, for covering what you could not see.

         [07:50] Bruce Mowbray: Is this your first visit to the PaB fountain, Edwnly?
         [07:51] Edwnly Revestel: yes..
         [07:51] Bruce Mowbray: If so, I'd like to give you an explanatory notecard.
        [07:51] Edwnly Revestel: that will be good
         [07:51] Bruce Mowbray: and let you know of our wiki -
        [07:51] Edwnly Revestel nods
         [07:51] Bruce Mowbray: and ask your permission to post on the web whatever you might say in the chat box, OK.
         [07:52] Lawrence Vyceratops: And then, perhaps, we can share thoughts on what brings us all to PaB.
         [07:52] Bruce Mowbray: OK -- There's the notecard.
             [07:52] Bruce Mowbray: Would anyone else like one?
         [07:52] Riddle Sideways: oh, was IM to edwnly and did not notice ya'll doing the guardian thing
         [07:52] Bruce Mowbray: Please click on a cuchion to join us, if you wish, Ed.
         [07:53] Riddle Sideways: I have several notecards in my inventory, but that is a mess to find things
        [07:53] Bruce Mowbray: yes, I only did so because I didn't realize you had claimed this session, Riddle -- I'm sorry.   
    At this point I can not 'claim'
    [07:53] Lawrence Vyceratops: Cushions look like beachballs to me still...
         [07:53] Bruce Mowbray: Here's the newest notecard....
         [07:54] Hana Furlough: lol yes
         [07:55] Bruce Mowbray: Good to have you aboard, Ed.
    [07:55] Lawrence Vyceratops: Alright. Now we all have beachball bodies!
        [07:55] Bruce Mowbray: Here's a link to our wiki: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    [07:56] Bruce Mowbray: There seems to be some lag with some viewers today, Lawrence.
    [07:56] Riddle Sideways: This region just got totally distroyed in the great linden flood
    [07:56] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yah.

    [07:56] Riddle Sideways: was as if it never existed
    [07:56] Riddle Sideways: then appeared again
    [07:57] Lawrence Vyceratops: Sounds like a fun acid trip!
    [07:57] Riddle Sideways: fresh as if for the first time
    [07:57] Bruce Mowbray: yes, and we were comparing the Great Linden Flood to other archetypal cleansings.
    [07:57] Riddle Sideways: each of us has to re-rez the world as we know it
    [07:57] Hana Furlough: ha yes
       Probably no need to mention refs to sheer apearance!
    [07:58] Riddle Sideways: your cache is wiped and the world exists only "Now"
        [07:58] Hana Furlough: and no i must go rex in the real world, so to speak
        [07:58] Hana Furlough: have a wonderful day everyone~
    [07:58] Bruce Mowbray: In order to "re-rez our worlds,"
        [07:58] Riddle Sideways: bye Hana
        [07:58] Bruce Mowbray: Have a good day, Hana!
    [07:58] Bruce Mowbray: It seems to be that one of the purposes of meditation is to clear out the cache --
    [07:59] Bruce Mowbray: and to re-rezz our worlds in some way.

    [07:59] Riddle Sideways: the Israelites thought "Oh what a miricle"

    [07:59] Bruce Mowbray: also -- that's one of the purposes of "dropping" as we do here every 15 minutes.

    [07:59] Lawrence Vyceratops: The Israelite thought what was a miracle?
    [08:00] Riddle Sideways: we thought... Darn, routine maintainence
            [08:00] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Conversations here are recorded when ON AIR. Please see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
            [08:00] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Please observe 90 seconds of silence.
    [08:00] Bruce Mowbray asks the same question (Lawrence's) of Riddle.
        [08:00] Lawrence Vyceratops: Are we observing the minute and half of silence?
        [08:00] Bruce Mowbray: yes we are.
        [08:00] Riddle Sideways: some (like me) do
        [08:00] Riddle Sideways: opps
        [08:01] Lawrence Vyceratops: heheh
        [08:01] Riddle Sideways: :]
            [08:01] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you.
      Beware of the Riddle Ramble ahead.
    [08:01] Bruce Mowbray: So -- what was the miracle, Riddle?
    [08:03] Riddle Sideways: There were so many, have heard the number as 7
    [08:03] Riddle Sideways: but was thinking of parting the Red Sea
    [08:03] Lawrence Vyceratops: Are you religious, Riddle?
    [08:03] Riddle Sideways: I try to be
    [08:03] Riddle Sideways: is hard
    [08:03] Bruce Mowbray: No -- I mean with the Flood. . . You said that the Israelites consider it a miracle. . . (?)
    [08:03] Lawrence Vyceratops: Why, do you think, you try?
    [08:04] Bruce Mowbray listens intently.
    [08:04] Lawrence Vyceratops: Parting of sea was the miracle, Bruce.
    [08:04] Riddle Sideways: an old old book tells me many stories
    [08:04] Riddle Sideways: what relavance do they have
    [08:04] Riddle Sideways: but, many they have much relivance [Yoda speak?]
    [08:05] Riddle Sideways: what if they was a sea, then there was no sea, then there was
    [08:05] Riddle Sideways: maybe Donovan sang it correctly (almost)

    [08:05] Lawrence Vyceratops: So, why do you try to be religious?
    [08:06] Lawrence Vyceratops: If you don't ,mind my asking, of course.
    [08:06] Riddle Sideways: oh, in my teens I found it missing
    [08:06] Riddle Sideways: so I went looking
    [08:06] Riddle Sideways: found it was a very good thing to keep in 'Inventory'
    08:06] Riddle Sideways: take out and use daily
    [08:06] Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    [08:07] Riddle Sideways: I tried all the formal religions I could
    [08:07] Riddle Sideways: read about the rest

    Oh gentle reader, please to forgive.  Some of you have spent 20, 30, 40 and more years doing religious and spiritual ________ (fill in). I am but a simple and slow learner that has not spent the time.  But, it was important to me to develop MY (beliefs, relgion, ethics, universe, dimensions, traditions, ...) and some of the me needed it quick.
    I did not trust any one teacher to be true.  Two teachers are 3 teachings.  I had doubts, so I trusted me.
    BTW - I am the wierdest (almost) person in PaB   :)

    [08:07] Riddle Sideways: made up my own versions
    [08:07] Riddle Sideways: found the common threads
    [08:07] Riddle Sideways: and the threads that meant most (or at least something) to me
    [08:08] Riddle Sideways: what rang true
    [08:08] Riddle Sideways: and ended up having a shallow layer across all religions

    [08:08] Riddle Sideways: then dug into one religion
    [08:09] Riddle Sideways: seems I can go deep into one now

        Thank you Lawrence, it starts...
    [08:09] Lawrence Vyceratops: Unfortunage that religions, while trying to promote peace, tends to create great disharmony and violent harm.
    [08:09] Riddle Sideways: yes, that is the most unfortunate thing
    [08:09] Riddle Sideways: they ALL have G-d on their side

    [08:10] Lawrence Vyceratops: And in society in general.
    [08:10] Lawrence Vyceratops: No offence to anyone...
    [08:10] Riddle Sideways: yes, I have always found society faulty
    [08:11] Riddle Sideways: but, try to live in it anyway
    [08:11] Riddle Sideways: dropping out works for a while (Thanks Timothy)

    [08:11] Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I meant our systems are faulty, particularly religion.
    [08:11] Riddle Sideways: then we start working from within
    [08:12] Riddle Sideways: lately, I have known that religion and belief are different
    [08:12] Riddle Sideways: organized religions have a useful place
    [08:12] Riddle Sideways: and I should use it
    [08:13] Bruce Mowbray: I'm curious, Riddle (and anyone else...). . . .
        [08:13] Riddle Sideways: however it is uncomfortable up on this soapbox
    [08:13] Lawrence Vyceratops: yes, Bruce?
    [08:14] Riddle Sideways: yes, Bruce
    [08:14] Bruce Mowbray: does your participation in "religion" include (or require) your physically being in a religious gathering and engaging in ritual with others in RL?
        [08:14] Lawrence Vyceratops whispers: Ah! square cushions, finally! haha
        [08:14] Riddle Sideways: :)
        [08:14] Bruce Mowbray: [things are slow to rez,this morning -apparently.]
    [08:14] Riddle Sideways: some Bruce, I like that in my current practice

            [08:14] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Conversations here are recorded when ON AIR. Please see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
            [08:14] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Please observe 90 seconds of silence.
          Oh scr-w it, we are not listening to that BELL
    [08:15] Bruce Mowbray: Well, one of the reasons I ask is that there are no RL religious assemblies within 50 miles of me that I am comfortable in.
    [08:15] Riddle Sideways: there is a great amount of my practices that are done at home with family. not in a village building only
    [08:15] Bruce Mowbray: That is one of the reasons I come to Pab -- and to SL in general.
    [08:15] Bruce Mowbray: to find compatible folks.
            [08:16] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you.

    [08:16] Riddle Sideways: one small practice I have is to once a week gather my family together and take a deep breathe together
        [08:16] Bruce Mowbray: Oooops -- I have my sounds turned off an keep missing the 90 seconds. sorry, everyone.
    [08:16] Lawrence Vyceratops: No offense, but religion, for the most part is comprised of silly superstitions that may, at one time, had good intentions, but today seem to only be good for perpetuating conflict and disharmony.
    [08:17] Riddle Sideways: that is a very good way to look at it
    [08:17] Riddle Sideways: and mostly a good summarization
    [08:17] Bruce Mowbray: agrees to some extent with Lawrence -- but finds that religions are also repositories of the great archetypes of human experience.
    [08:18] Riddle Sideways: then one day, I get to watch SL un-rez this pagoda into the ocean
    [08:18] Bruce Mowbray: also - that in order for relgious tradtions to stay fresh, those who comprise such traditions must to their own house-cleaning.
    [08:18] Riddle Sideways: and re-think
        [08:19] Bruce Mowbray: welcome back, Aph.
    [08:19] Bruce Mowbray: I look forward to that sight, Riddle. ;-)
         [08:19] Riddle Sideways: re-Hello Alp
         [08:19] Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
         [08:19] Aphrodite Macbain: re-hi
    [08:20] Lawrence Vyceratops: I think present day thought would be better for realizing up to date understandings, rather than old ways of thinking.
    [08:20] Riddle Sideways: how shalt I tell ya'll of the miricle I witnessed
    [08:20] Aphrodite Macbain: just tell us
        [08:20] Lawrence Vyceratops: H, Aphrodite
    [08:20] Lawrence Vyceratops: i
         [08:20] Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Lawrence
    [08:20] Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and listens intently.
    [08:21] Aphrodite Macbain: I've been trying to write Haiku for a friend who is dying. Not easy
    [08:21] Riddle Sideways: for the history books I write "once there was land, then there was no land, then there was"
    [08:21] Riddle Sideways: years later, ya'll say that fool
    [08:21] Riddle Sideways: that has no meaning to me, now, here
    [08:21] Aphrodite Macbain: It may have intellectual meaning
    [08:22] Aphrodite Macbain: but not experiential
    [08:22] Aphrodite Macbain: maybe
    [08:22] Riddle Sideways: so maybe the Torah has intellectual meaning?
    [08:22] Aphrodite Macbain: a way of thinking about things
    [08:22] Aphrodite Macbain: there must be some universals
    [08:22] Bruce Mowbray: There must be personalization of the miracle experience, I feel.
    [08:23] Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    [08:23] Lawrence Vyceratops: Wait... the miracle part... did we skip that?
    [08:23] Bruce Mowbray: Your miracles are not the same as my miracles - perhaps - but that does not make them less miraculous.
    [08:24] Aphrodite Macbain: Miracles are subjective?
    [08:24] Bruce Mowbray: [08:20] Riddle Sideways: how shalt I tell ya'll of the miricle I witnessed
    [08:24] Riddle Sideways: and my writting of my miricle may not resonate for you
    [08:24] Lawrence Vyceratops: Bruce, Riddle asked about sharing a miracle with us.
    [08:24] Aphrodite Macbain: How indeed Riddle
    [08:24] Aphrodite Macbain: please share it if you can
    [08:25] Riddle Sideways: shalt I scribe in a foreign language
    [08:25] Bruce Mowbray: He has already done so - - -
    [08:25] Lawrence Vyceratops: What was the miracle that you witnessed?
    [08:25] Bruce Mowbray: he told us: The land was here; then it was swept away; then it appeared again -- [a miracle]
    [08:25] Aphrodite Macbain: Cannot you do it in English?
    [08:25] Riddle Sideways: I shalt write of witnessing I know not what
    [08:25] Riddle Sideways: it was magic
    [08:25] Aphrodite Macbain: OK
    [08:25] Lawrence Vyceratops: Please, in English :)
    [08:25] Riddle Sideways: it was a server rebooting
    [08:25] Aphrodite Macbain listens attentively
    [08:26] Riddle Sideways: the matrix server that contains what was our world definitions
    [08:26] Aphrodite Macbain: matrix server?
    [08:26] Riddle Sideways: stepping onto the land defined on another server
    [08:26] Lawrence Vyceratops: Are you takling about the routine scheduled maintenance in this Region earlier??
    [08:26] Riddle Sideways: oh, did I mention the matrix
    [08:27] Riddle Sideways: should not make that ref
    [08:27] Aphrodite Macbain: maybe but I didn't read it
    [08:27] Riddle Sideways: Lawrence, what is routine to one, might be miriclious/magic to another
    [08:27] Lawrence Vyceratops: Please.
    [08:28] Riddle Sideways: sry alph, you were gone
    [08:28] Lawrence Vyceratops: That is no miracle. It is modern technology.
    [08:28] Bruce Mowbray: While the rest of us left the area -- Riddle remained here and observed the miracle.
    [08:28] Lawrence Vyceratops: And nothiing much to speak of.
    [08:28] Aphrodite Macbain: Riddle you are thinking in riddles
    [08:29] Aphrodite Macbain: I AM curious tho what technology allowed you to stay and forced us to leave
    [08:29] Bruce Mowbray: No - I disagree - I feel that Riddle is thinking in miracles -- and I agree with his thinking.
    [08:29] Riddle Sideways: if magic is = "use of a yet to be understand technology"
    [08:29] Riddle Sideways: then probably miricles are too
            [08:30] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Conversations here are recorded when ON AIR. Please see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
            [08:30] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Please observe 90 seconds of silence.
            Oh, we are just not listening to you, bell
    [08:30] Aphrodite Macbain: yes. and many do understand and can explain
    [08:30] Lawrence Vyceratops: People understand this technology. What are speaking of?
    [08:30] Riddle Sideways: just because you do (or do not) understand the underlying technology?
    [08:30] Aphrodite Macbain: DING
    [08:30] Lawrence Vyceratops: I am not a superstitious person and I believe superstion is harmful to society.
        THE deadly word appears!!!!
    [08:30] PaB Listener Master: Recording has started!
                [08:31] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you.

    BTW - Guardian's never never ever edit with the "Bonzo Dog Band" playing in the background (tonight's ref = "Big Shot")

    Ah, got the recording going again...


    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes I agree Lawrence. But we nevertheless have to understand that we are each in a slightly different state of knowledge/

    Bruce Mowbray: I regard Being Iteself as a sort of miracle -- and I regard Time as a sort of miracle (hard for me to think of any greater miracle than sheer appearance...)

    Bruce Mowbray: so -- are these superstitions?
    Aphrodite Macbain: and someone's miracle is someone else's daily routine
    Bruce Mowbray: That I "believe" in appearances. . . even though I cannot see "past" or "future"?
    Riddle Sideways: funny things... these words that we apply to the same principles
    Lawrence Vyceratops: They are superstitious if you make up stories to give a concrete definition of somethin you don't understand
    Lawrence Vyceratops: That is potentially harmful.
    Riddle Sideways: and potentially wonderful
        Aphrodite Macbain: What do you think Edwnly?

    Bruce Mowbray: OK -- Here is a story: In a few minutes, I will get into my car, drive twenty miles, and get a haircut - then return to the farm where I am now.
    Bruce Mowbray: BUT -- all of that is in the future... (a story?)
    Aphrodite Macbain: In your mind
    Aphrodite Macbain: but not acted upon yet
    Bruce Mowbray: and when I am inthe barber's chair, my farm will be in the future (a supersition to believe it wil be waiting for me to return?)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: That is not what I am saying, Bruce, and no, Riddle, I disagree.
    Aphrodite Macbain: not a superstition, , a reliable fact since it has been proved many times
    Riddle Sideways: dependent on your Point of View
    Riddle Sideways: and we are all allowed one
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have a number Riddle
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Allowed a point of view?
    Riddle Sideways: I find great pleasure in listening to your points of view, however might not always agree
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh! There is the spice of it, Riddle!

    Lawrence Vyceratops: Superstitions are potentially dangerous and harmful to society. It breeds ignorance.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Sure, occasionally something fun may come of it, but that should not be justification for it.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It breeds intersdting stories and is the result of ignorance (not knowing) I'm not sure if it breeds ignorance
    Bruce Mowbray: "Superstitions" are also what keeps many people emotionally capable of continuing to stay sane and happy.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I disagree.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I am not convinced of that.
    Bruce Mowbray: If they arenot destructive to others, what is the problem?
         Aphrodite Macbain: Is thre no Guardian for this session?
         Bruce Mowbray: Do you want to claim it, Aph?
         Riddle Sideways: I am GoC
         Riddle Sideways: or will try to perform that
         Aphrodite Macbain: GoC for it Riddle
             Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Luna.
             Luna Khalim: hello
         Riddle Sideways: the region reboot, messed the Listener
         Bruce Mowbray: ok -- we just got a notice that the session had not yet been claimed -- Might be due to the miraculous cleansing that happened earlier here.
                Poor Luna, came in at the height of raging dialogue
             Riddle Sideways: Hi Luna
             Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Luna.
    Riddle Sideways: that is supersitious

    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh. I'm going to disappear now and continue working on my Haiku! We are getting nowhere in this argument. Good luck.!

    Luna Khalim: is there any discussion going on right now?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Ok. To refer to the routine maintenance of the server as being miraculous is funny, but nothing more than that. hopefully no one seriously sees that as miraculous, unless generically, as in all of life is miraculous, but not by itself.
    Riddle Sideways: we (might) be discussing the words some use for the same thing
    Luna Khalim: ok
    Bruce Mowbray: We are discussion religion, archetypal stories, superstitions, and the 'miracle' of modern technology, Luna.
    Riddle Sideways: maybe some ancients saw something and wrote about it.
    Riddle Sideways: others edited it
    Bruce Mowbray: I feel that religion serves n important purpose in helping to sustain and pass on the archetypal stories that make us human.
    Riddle Sideways: now we don't think it ever happened
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Riddle -- that's why I feel that a "personalization" of the story isnedded.
    Bruce Mowbray: needed.
    Riddle Sideways: how to explain the un-explainable
    Riddle Sideways: I saw something.
    Bruce Mowbray: At some point in our lives, we have each experienced the "Flood" -- though not as the ancient account might say it.
    Riddle Sideways: how shalt I discribe it
    Riddle Sideways: from the coordinates I saw it, it was like magic. It was pretty
    Riddle Sideways: from another coordinate viewing. it was some guy behind a curtain
    Riddle Sideways: I shalt write about the beauty of life
    Lawrence Vyceratops: In case you are wondering, Luna, Riddle is talking about the routine maintenance of the server.
    Riddle Sideways: othesr shall say hogwash
    Luna Khalim: thank you :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We had to leave the region, Riddle walked to the next region and turned around to watch.
    Luna Khalim: I stay few min to see if I fit in the discussion
            Brave, Luna
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, I'm might also be leaving this discussion.

    Bruce Mowbray: How do you feel about allegory, Lawrence?
    Bruce Mowbray: All allegories just lies /superstitions?
    Bruce Mowbray: or are the poetic attempts to say something that might otherwise be un-sayable?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We are talking about routine maintenance of the Region server.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, we are certainly talking about the routine maintence of the server.
    Riddle Sideways: also, we are talking of a virtual world
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To treat it as a miracle is funny, if doing so sarcastically.
    Bruce Mowbray: but we are also making that be an allegory of other experiences in life.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I am failing to see the relevance.
    Bruce Mowbray: ok. I understand Lawrence.
            Luna gives up
         Luna Khalim: I come another time....nice to meet you all...peace
         Riddle Sideways: thanks, Luna
    Bruce Mowbray: Suppose that in my life - I have been very troubled by something...
    Bruce Mowbray: suppose that it is even emotionally obsessing me. . .
    Lawrence Vyceratops: go on...
    Bruce Mowbray: Then, suppose that something happens -- somehting in nature, perhaps.
    Bruce Mowbray: and all of my emotional disturbance is swept away ---
    Bruce Mowbray: What is my emotional experience with all of that -- how can I explain it -- How can I remember it?
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps I will tell a story about it -- maybe even an allegory. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: To me - it might FELL like a MIRACLE -- that transformation.
    Bruce Mowbray: FEEL.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I must be missing something. I'm sorry.
    Bruce Mowbray: I am not arguing for the "real truth" of miracles at all.
    Bruce Mowbray: I am not arguing for the literal truth of the ancient textx, either.
    Bruce Mowbray: texts.

        Riddle Sideways: oh, I just read Luna's SL profile... very apropo
         Riddle Sideways: "There are only two ways to live life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle"

    Bruce Mowbray: Nor am I trying to excuse superstition - which I agree can be very distructive.
         Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for sharing that, Riddle.
         Bruce Mowbray: I prefer the second way.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I would not venture to say only those two ways to live.
    Riddle Sideways: I might insist there is a third way.
    Riddle Sideways: between the 2
    Bruce Mowbray: (as I said earlier when talking about Time, Past, Future. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: what is a third way?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: well, you have to define wat it means: "ways to live life."
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But that perhaps is another discusion for another time.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I have to go very soon.
    Bruce Mowbray: Actually, I think that's what we've been talking about here for two hours.
        Bruce Mowbray: yes, I need to get my haircut.
         Bruce Mowbray: Thanks to you both.
         Riddle Sideways: yes, has been 2 hours. I need to find work/money
         Bruce Mowbray: Have a great day.
         Lawrence Vyceratops: You two as well.
         Riddle Sideways: and thank you so much
         Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye

    There a truely beautiful story that I wish to insert here.   But alas, I can not find it right now on the Internet, nor can I paraphrase.  About a village that lost the language, objects and meaning of why they do a ritual/thing at a certain time each week.  It is just Tradition.


    Person 1: Why the hell did you do that?????

    Jew 1: Tradition !!! 


    - Peace

       ( Until the fat lady sings )

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