2010.09.14 13:00 - PaB? whats that?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.


    Mickorod Renard: Hi alf
    Alfred Kelberry: oi :)
    Alfred Kelberry: sorry, i was away
    Alfred Kelberry: where did mick go?
    Qt Core: don't know, i didn't see him here
    Alfred Kelberry: i see hello from him in chat
    Alfred Kelberry: oi, lawrence
    Qt Core: hi Lawrence
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Hello
    Qt Core: hi arch
    Qt Core: i'm trying to hurt myself... trying Phoenix on linux ;-)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Arch.
    Alfred Kelberry: hi, archy
    Alfred Kelberry: qt, what's that?
    Qt Core: the successor/substitute of Emerald
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Lawrence
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi Alfred
    Alfred Kelberry: qt, ah... as in 2.0?
    Qt Core: no, that's the "standard sl viewer" there had been some "scanda;" and emerald was banned nut it rebirth as Phoenix
    Qt Core: scanda;=scandal
    Lawrence Vyceratops: H, Sarif.
    Alfred Kelberry: i thought ver 1.0 was banned
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I am using Emerald.
    Qt Core: how are you doing that, SL says they are actively banning it from the grid
    Qt Core: ?
    Archmage Atlantis: So Phoenix is a rebuilt version of Emerald 1.0, is that right?
    Qt Core: without the offending parts as as for the website a different set of mind
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't know. I don't know anything about it. All I know is that I tried to install Viewer 2.0 and it was in German, so I installed Emerald instead.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: No Guardian today?
    Qt Core: Well, it seems that there will be not much to post ;-)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Are you claiming the session, Q?
    Qt Core: if no one will, i'll try for my first time
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't know anything about it.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Dash.
    Qt Core: basically, you click the fountain, you get a link, you get the log there and post in on the wiki
    Qt Core: Hi Dash, have you ever been here before ?
    Dash Earthboy: hey y'all :)
    Dash Earthboy: oh hi Qt, yessirree
    Qt Core: good, have't to explain it ;-)
    Dash Earthboy: ;)
    Dash Earthboy: didn't mean to interrupt
    Lawrence Vyceratops: No interruption. We have yet to begin.
    Qt Core: np, we where quite silent
    Dash Earthboy: well I just got done studying my GIS implementations and we had talked a little about that yesterday during this session
    Qt Core: just circling around awaiting for someone to suggest a topic or saying something interesting
    Lawrence Vyceratops: GIS implementation?
    Dash Earthboy: and I don't see anybody here from yesterday except Alf
    Qt Core: GIS as in ?
    Dash Earthboy: yes, GIS is Geographic Info Sys
    Dash Earthboy: or Geospatial Info Sys
    Alfred Kelberry: um, sorry, a bit busy
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For what purpose does GIS serve?
    Dash Earthboy: think Google Earth for simple usage
    Qt Core: measuring things around ?
    Dash Earthboy: anyway today I found the European Food Safety Authority is using it to monitor zoonoses
    Dash Earthboy: several attendees yesterday are from Europe
    Qt Core: and some today too ;-)
    Dash Earthboy: cool
    Dash Earthboy: so the topic could be zoonoses?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: What is a zoonoses?
    Qt Core: i get the zoo part, but noses ? like the one in the middle of faces ?
    Qt Core: i think not, right ? ;-)
    Alfred Kelberry: sorry, i'll go check the dream workshop
    Dash Earthboy: Zoonoses are diseases that are transmissible from animals to humans directly or through ingestion of contaminated foodstuff.
    Dash Earthboy: ya I thought zoonoses was a fun word too
    Qt Core: ops, got it, first in the zoonosis on wikipedia... Anthrax
    Dash Earthboy: sure
    Dash Earthboy: and I think the mad cow diseases like they had in Canada around 1993?
    Dash Earthboy: i remember teasing my wife about being a mad cow back then :)
    Dash Earthboy: hey Qt, have you claimed this session yet?
    Qt Core: wasn't it more recent (or maybe the european one wasn't the same of the canadian one .... or i'm just too ols!
    Dash Earthboy: i hear ya
    Qt Core: ols=old
    Dash Earthboy: have you claimed the session yet?
    Qt Core: not yet
    Dash Earthboy: ok
    Dash Earthboy: ya and E coli and salmonella are other examples
    Dash Earthboy: I was trained to use GIS to be a real local "Big Brother Government" guy
    Dash Earthboy: we put info about every resident on each parcel of land
    Qt Core: but you resisted the Dark Side ?
    Dash Earthboy: oh yes
    Qt Core: goof
    Qt Core: good
    Dash Earthboy: so they trumped up charges (ethics) and then fired me
    Dash Earthboy: black-balled me from being hired here since then
    Dash Earthboy: nobody wants trouble with the government
    Dash Earthboy: hi bruce
    Qt Core: hi Bruce, Mick
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Bruce.
    Dash Earthboy: hi mick
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Dashj!
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Mick.
    Bruce Mowbray: Dash. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: Yowwww, Mick!
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Nice. haha
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Guys
    Dash Earthboy: was just talking about GIS being used by European Food Safety Authority to track zoonoses
    Mickorod Renard: oh yea,,interesting that Gis
    Dash Earthboy: can be
    Mickorod Renard: has anyone claimed the session?
    Dash Earthboy: no
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't think so.
    Qt Core: not yet, was going too if no GOC would appear
    Mickorod Renard: I got it
    Dash Earthboy: yay :)
    Bruce Mowbray: thanks, Mick.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Can we briefly share what we all think "play as being" means and to what purpose this practice may serve?
    Mickorod Renard: np,,it was my slot once
    Mickorod Renard: thats an excelent idea
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Who would like to begin?
    Bruce Mowbray: agrees, excellent idea.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Shall we go in order, clockwise, etc?
    Bruce Mowbray: Might I please ask for a clarification...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Please.
    Bruce Mowbray: Do you mean the GROUP Play as Being.
    Bruce Mowbray: or do you mean what the actualy concept "Play" as "being"?
    Bruce Mowbray: or either or both?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: The practice of Play as Being as well as the intent.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Etiher, both.
    Bruce Mowbray: ok, thanks.
    Bruce Mowbray: who will begin?
    Mickorod Renard: I will start if u like
    Lawrence Vyceratops: great, Mick,
    Qt Core: who thinks to have grasped that ;-)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We can go in order, briefly.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: clockwise...
    Bruce Mowbray: ok.
    Mickorod Renard: well, I think we all know what we do in practice, ie the timeout, and the silence
    Mickorod Renard: but the use of doing this is in my mind, a chance to look at life without the clutter
    Mickorod Renard: it is a practice that is mobile, and can be taken to any scenario
    Mickorod Renard: and has the ability of providing a clarity of thought
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,next
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Dash?
    Mickorod Renard: Dash
    Dash Earthboy: me?
    Dash Earthboy: ok
    Dash Earthboy: I visited the Play As Being website awhile back to learn what the purpose was
    Dash Earthboy: what I remember was it was approaching looking at life without our current RL attachments
    Dash Earthboy: so I came to the group thinking that those who had been here longer would be good examples of the practices being encouraged
    Dash Earthboy: that's all i know about it at this time
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Good. so, Bruce's turn?
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, for me, PaB is basically two things: one is a noun and the other a verb.
    Bruce Mowbray: The noun part: A place that I can come to four times a day - where everyone respects others' viewpoints whether or not they agree.
    Bruce Mowbray: with kindness and humanity.
    Bruce Mowbray: So, first and foremost, PaB is a meeting place - - for me -- and I am a very isolated person, in RL.
    Bruce Mowbray: The verb part:
    Bruce Mowbray: an on-going experimental way of viewing appearances, time, and being itself.
    Bruce Mowbray: and this changes for me almost every time I visit this place.
    Bruce Mowbray: discovery -- a growth edge. new ideas,
    Lawrence Vyceratops: :
    Lawrence Vyceratops: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: That's it for now.
    Bruce Mowbray: Qt?
    Qt Core: hard to tell, ;-)
    Qt Core: i'll stick to the name, play as being
    Qt Core: i often saw it as playing/act almost faking (in a good way) being better, calmet greater ? than what we are
    Qt Core: but act today, act tomorrow you become better, calmer greater
    Qt Core: and oh i need to be calmer in these years ;-)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: haha
    Qt Core: if i may add an short story
    Qt Core: my father was used to tell me, when doing wathever hard/difficould you where doing "fa finta" that in italian means fake that... or fake it
    Qt Core: while we where doing it, i remember espoecially when moving heavy things
    Qt Core: you fake it and then discover you did it
    Qt Core: (but when i did tel me that i usually went quite angry as the weight wasn't fake ;-)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For me, I see that humanity is so destructive and violent. I saw PaB as a place where people were looking into themselves to see what it means to Be...
    Qt Core: i=he
    Lawrence Vyceratops: The purpose, I felt was to discover a means to be more civilized by understand who we are.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: This is difficult, though, because I feel that the practice is very vague for most of us. I continue to come here...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: to see if there is any progress in the activity of looking at being.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I would like to see more definition in terms for better understanding among all and to arrive at a purpose, an intent.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: :)
    Dash Earthboy: good to see y'all...have a good one, whatever is left of it :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye, Dash
    Mickorod Renard: bye dah
    Qt Core: ops, bye
    Mickorod Renard: Arch?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Your turn, Arch?
    Mickorod Renard: would you like to have a go?
    Mickorod Renard: no pressure
    Archmage Atlantis: I'm afraid I nodded off, was trying to catch up
    Lawrence Vyceratops: haha
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I appreciate Lawrence's asking the question.
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, Arch, you wanna give your brief interpretation of the pracetice?
    Mickorod Renard: I have asked it in the past
    Archmage Atlantis: The questions seems to have been the purpose of PAB
    Archmage Atlantis: Oh, ok
    Archmage Atlantis: PAB is organized around a form of meditation, one might even call it "speed meditation" for busy individuals
    Archmage Atlantis: That is the practice, the meetings are to share our individual experiences with the practice...
    Archmage Atlantis: And also to share anything related to one's awareness of life
    Qt Core: and to spend time thinking about the practice
    Archmage Atlantis: thus the meetings tend to be wide ranging
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Great, so should we agree that the purpose of PaB is basically a meditation practice?
    Archmage Atlantis: I would agree
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Would anyone disagree?
    Bruce Mowbray: I have a bit of trouble with the term "basically" -- but otherwise , yes.
    Qt Core: don't think meditation is the purpose but the tool
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, the method -- and our sharing ideas is also part of the meditative/method.
    Mickorod Renard: I think the real benefits of Pab are what you discover from being inquisitive. Everyone has diferent questions, diferent issues and backgrounds. During the time spent here there is a chance to find answers to many little questions . The practice here is a tool and its knock on effects are the benefits
    Archmage Atlantis: That depends on how one is using the term "PAB", i thing QT
    Archmage Atlantis: *think
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, is there something we can all agree on about PaB?
    Qt Core: everything depends on how you use the terms Arch ;-)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Something that is no so subject to individualized interpretation?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: At leaset, all of us here presently?
    Bruce Mowbray: We are all encouraged to "drop having" to find "being...."
    Bruce Mowbray: but how that happens is different for each person.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Can we find a common thread in this practice, something not so loose?
    Mickorod Renard: I think 'play as being'is exactly that , an oportunity to look at oneself and life from a diferent perspective, like that from a position of God or whatever you may want to look from
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, the ideas are pretty clearly spelled out in the wiki and the greeting card
    Qt Core: are we all searching for more awareness inside and/or outside of ourselves ?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, the word meditate comes up a lot, I 've noticed.
    Mickorod Renard: well said Arch
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, we "play" as if we were Being - - - a reverse of how we normally think of it.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: yes, Q, that is near what I am getting at.
    Archmage Atlantis: But I agree, what happens when using those guidelines is very individual
    Lawrence Vyceratops: What common thing has brought us together?
    Mickorod Renard: the money
    Lawrence Vyceratops: can we find a commonality? something to define that we all agree on?
    Qt Core: curiosity and respect ?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: It is often so vague, our understanding, our intention.
    Mickorod Renard: we have computers and can read?
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't feel it is vague for me.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, that is not quite what I mean.
    Bruce Mowbray listens intently to Lawrence.
    Mickorod Renard: I think a good question may be what keeps us here?
    Bruce Mowbray: Smiles. What keeps us coming back. . . .
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For instance, can we define something n the practice that will not be misinterpreted, by talking to one another and trying to define it.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Something that is without individualized interpretation.
    Archmage Atlantis: For me it is being in the company of intelligent individuals who are willing to share their own personal experiences with the practice and in their lives.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, is it a form of entertainment?
    Bruce Mowbray: A desire for increased awareness . . . a desire to share that experience with others.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Are we merely amusing ourselves here?
    Bruce Mowbray: sometimes it is quite entertaining -- other times, not.
    Archmage Atlantis: No, not at all, Lawrence.....
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Do we have a common purpose?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Is there a common problem?
    Mickorod Renard: I think its illuminating
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Archmage Atlantis: I keep coming up with "spiritual awareness of all things"
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For istance, we couldall meet to address the problem of poverty. What is the common problem we are addressing here in PaB?
    Archmage Atlantis: Of course that sounds vague when I say it
    Mickorod Renard: I think we are discovering that our thoughts are not unique, and there is comfort in finding like minded people, in doing so enhances our qualities and growth
    Bruce Mowbray: For me, it is an opportunity to share Being. . . and the "problem" is my delusion of separateness.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But what purpose ar we following?
    Mickorod Renard: expanding our imagination
    Qt Core: feeling better, almost selfish
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For what end? Bruce says for unity? Is that right, Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: mmmm..... i guess I would not call that my "purpose."
    Bruce Mowbray: My "purpose" is more like -- sharing a good time, with respectful, intelligent folks.
    Bruce Mowbray: But then there is also this subterranean river flowing. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: and I appreciate that is flows for all of us.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Is it merely to enjoy community, something that lacks in RL?
    Mickorod Renard: we are creating Gods of ourselves, and it feels good
    Bruce Mowbray: so in a way, this is a spiritual experience for me -- not just having a good time.
    Archmage Atlantis: If i go to a Buddhist meditation, or a Quaker meeting.......there is a communal element, and there is also a spititual element....the same forl PAB meetings.....for me personally anyway
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Do some of us meet for self help?
    Bruce Mowbray: Of course--- I help myself every time I come here.
    Mickorod Renard: Lawence, accept that there is noother group on sl that would provide you with so many answers from the heart
    Bruce Mowbray: or so many metaphors.
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Bruce Mowbray confesses that he's a meataphor scavenger.
    Bruce Mowbray: metaphor, sorry!
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I am only trying to discover a means to accurately communicate.
    Mickorod Renard: I think I have received help for issues I have had
    Archmage Atlantis: Or on a day when everyone is in a silly place, shared happiness in humor
    Bruce Mowbray: Lawrence -- one thing that helped me here was --
    Lawrence Vyceratops: In many areas of life, we don't know what each other means, what each others intention. I think our language is very important. It is how we understand one another.
    Bruce Mowbray: finding that there is a big difference between explaining and describing.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Right.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Say that I tell a person, the grass is green. That is perfectly understandable.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We know precisely what green is.
    Bruce Mowbray: For me (and I always speak only for myself), the describing of individual experience becomes a sort of un-spoken explanation of what we're about here.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: It is a different story when we talk about other areas of life: emotions, spirituality, etc.
    Archmage Atlantis: Except I may be genetically blind to green, of course
    Bruce Mowbray: How is it different, Lawrence?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Because, as we have seen, everyone has a slightly different view of what PaB is, it's purpose...
    Archmage Atlantis: Or, my mental image of green is a forest......or maybe a lizard
    Lawrence Vyceratops: no one disagrees what the purpose of building a bridge is. It's to get to the other side.
    Archmage Atlantis: Both green in language
    Qt Core: and then our response were the 14 september ones, tomorrow who knows ?
    Archmage Atlantis: And to provide work in the community, and to shorten a distance
    Bruce Mowbray: There are thousands of ways to build a bridge -- including swimming across the river.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes. A structural bridge. We know preciesly what we are talking about. here, it is often left to interpretation. It would be nice to not be like that, bnut to absolutely or at least closely define.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Bruce, that's not exactly what I meant.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: For instance, if I say a bridge like the one in San Francisco, we all know exactly what that is. There is little room for individual interpretation.
    Archmage Atlantis: But that is what Bruce heard you say Lawrence......language is and will always be an inprecised tool
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Can there be definition like that in this practice?
    Bruce Mowbray: I have personally walked across the Golden Gate bridge 21 times.
    Bruce Mowbray: I used to do it on Sunday afternoons -- after grading papers all weekend.
    Bruce Mowbray: Every time I walked the bridge, it was different.
    Bruce Mowbray: I was different.
    Archmage Atlantis: Aren't there garden bridges in SF?
    Bruce Mowbray: Was it always the same bridge? -- The one they built at the beginning of the 20th Century?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But when you say that you walked across the Golden Gate bridghe, I was not thnking about a steamboat.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Do you see what I mean?
    Archmage Atlantis: And other bridges besides the Golden Gate
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    Bruce Mowbray: I think I do understand, Lawrence.
    Bruce Mowbray: So, you would like a precise definition of PaB's purposes and methods?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: This is a serious problem, as I see it: our language.
    Bruce Mowbray: ok. Listens....\
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Not just for me personally, but for us all. PaB has been doing this for over two years. What productive can be shown from it? What in real terms? Not so subjective?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Many do not even agree on the purpose or intent.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We have sat for a long time today :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I hope this does not sound too crazy or egotistical -- but the more I come to PaB, the more "subjective" becomes more "real" for me than "objective."
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you again for your question.
    Bruce Mowbray: It is good to look at it a-fresh....
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I have to go eat.
    Bruce Mowbray: Me too!
    Bruce Mowbray: Also, to check out a book at Amazon.
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I feel it is important to always look at it a-fresh.
    Bruce Mowbray: May all be well and happy!
    Qt Core: that question did come out several times and got many answers
    Qt Core: bye Bruce and Lawrence
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Goodbye. Peace out!
    Mickorod Renard: bye
    Mickorod Renard: ok guys, i have to leave,,c u around
    Archmage Atlantis: Th' th' that's all folks
    Qt Core: :-) arch
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Qt Core: me too, bye Mick


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