2010.09.14 19:00 - Attending


    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.


    doug Sosa: hello
    adoro Rhapsody: hi doug
    doug Sosa: evening where you are?
    adoro Rhapsody: early morning here
    adoro Rhapsody: 3:58 am
    adoro Rhapsody: and u ?
    doug Sosa: lets see must be moscow?
    adoro Rhapsody: holland
    adoro Rhapsody: europe
    doug Sosa: I am early evening, norther california
    adoro Rhapsody: its great to overcome those time barriers
    doug Sosa: hi ewan
    adoro Rhapsody: hi ewan
    Ewan Bonham: Hi guys!


    doug Sosa: hi eos!
    adoro Rhapsody: hi eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Doug, Adoro, Ewan
    Ewan Bonham: Hi eos.
    Eos Amaterasu: Long time no see,Doug
    doug Sosa: hm, . sounds familiar.
    adoro Rhapsody: never met u both before in PaB
    adoro Rhapsody: i am dutch as pema
    Dream Wrexan: good evening
    Eos Amaterasu: Evening, Dream
    adoro Rhapsody: good day
    Dream Wrexan: if that's what it is where you are :-)
    adoro Rhapsody: dream
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Eliza..
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, Dream, Ewan, Adoro, and Hi Doug, ltns
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: It is taking so long to rezz tonight... you all are just appearing :)
    Eos Amaterasu: that's what I yam
    Ewan Bonham: I sat on two people before I saw them..:O
    Dream Wrexan: everyone was saying hello to you, Eliza, before I saw you
    Eliza Madrigal: :) So not just me

    Eos Amaterasu: Would anyone have or like to suggest a topic?
    adoro Rhapsody: if time is money why not talk about money ?
    Ewan Bonham: Overcoming frustration..:)
    Alfred Kelberry: *little boxy sneaks in*
    Eliza Madrigal: Sleepy.... would like to mostly listen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alfred :)
    Alfred Kelberry: oi :)
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Al
    adoro Rhapsody: hi alfred


    doug Sosa: money is a waste of time
    Eos Amaterasu: hi**3
    Alfred Kelberry: sleepy eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    adoro Rhapsody: or time is wast of money ?
    Dream Wrexan: hi, alfred :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: Have the time sessions considered whether time is money?
    Dream Wrexan: money is only a symbol
    adoro Rhapsody: time too
    Dream Wrexan: yes
    Ewan Bonham: Of attachment
    adoro Rhapsody: of trust
    Dream Wrexan: to anything imparticular, ewan?

    Eos Amaterasu: attention is our only resource, and that exists in time, is time
    adoro Rhapsody: but we pay attention
    Dream Wrexan: "pay" attention :-)
    Ewan Bonham: Well, to many things including security..
    Alfred Kelberry: it's hard to detach time though :)
    Dream Wrexan high-5's adoro
    doug Sosa: attention without the universe is not a resource for me.
    adoro Rhapsody: so we may earn attention
    adoro Rhapsody: or invest intention
    adoro Rhapsody: attention
    adoro Rhapsody: and have value for attention
    adoro Rhapsody: or return for attention
    Dream Wrexan: how does attention relate to consciousness?
    adoro Rhapsody: or benefits for attention
    Eos Amaterasu: is awareness attention?
    Ewan Bonham: making a 'killing' on the market..
    adoro Rhapsody: who pays and who earns attention ?
    adoro Rhapsody: is there a balance in attention ?
    Dream Wrexan: to me, attention has more 'focus' than awareness
    adoro Rhapsody: for me too
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm... maybe we can start simple and just pay attention to how we are attending (now and in the next 90 sec period)
    adoro Rhapsody: sure
    Eos Amaterasu: "notice your attending"
    Dream Wrexan: we pay attention *to* something - whereas we are aware of our being
    Ewan Bonham: I think, Dream it has more intended focus...almost preconceived focus
    Eos Amaterasu: what if you're just listening?
    Dream Wrexan: yes, Ewan - intended - intentional
    adoro Rhapsody: active listening or passive listening ?
    Eos Amaterasu: just listening
    adoro Rhapsody: ok
    Dream Wrexan: I agree with Eos
    adoro Rhapsody: me too
    Dream Wrexan: passive listening isn't really listening
    Ewan Bonham: It is listening without attention..
    adoro Rhapsody: so attention is a kind of intention is a kind of investment ?
    Ewan Bonham: A bunch of quiet noise..


    Eos Amaterasu: Reports from the field?
    Ewan Bonham: bouncing off the mind..

    Alfred has some questions about Buddhism, which interweave...
    Alfred Kelberry: um, eos... you do know buddhism, right?
    Eos Amaterasu: sure

    Doug is uncomfortable with sound bit culture
    doug Sosa: Report from the field. Not comfortable with the sound bite culture here. Feels like armour
    Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to ask... how is that life considered suffering in buddhism? i understand it's our desires in life that cause suffering, is that correct?
    adoro Rhapsody: i see doug and i feel so too
    Eos Amaterasu: Doug, can you say or suggest more?
    doug Sosa: well, yes. Instead of "what's mone" or what's buddism, Instead of "correct" "sure" No. we just say what we are actually experiencing.
    doug Sosa: but the red hair just left :(
    adoro Rhapsody: letting go
    Eos Amaterasu: via "reports from the field?" I was inviting experiential reports
    doug Sosa: like what's with alfred in a box, and why are our colors so subdued?
    Alfred Kelberry: um, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt
    Eliza Madrigal: Not at all Alfred...
    adoro Rhapsody: u dont interrupt
    doug Sosa: Interruption really isn't possble, its the flow.
    adoro Rhapsody: we like to know why u are in a box ?
    Eliza Madrigal: A band begins to play beat, beat, beat... then, sometimes beat beat... then ding... birds = one chirp at a time, some nights
    Eos Amaterasu thinks Alfred is a box
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    adoro Rhapsody: a kind of mental jam session here ?
    Ewan Bonham: Sometimes all chirps are One
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes adoro
    adoro Rhapsody: wow
    doug Sosa: Interesting that being a box here is more distance creating than having long red curly hair.
    adoro Rhapsody: that could be great experience
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes someone comes with something stretchy....
    Alfred Kelberry: :/
    Eos Amaterasu: we are all outside the box
    Eos Amaterasu: (except for Alfred? :-)
    Ewan Bonham: Or maybe there is a box only in our minds..
    Eliza Madrigal: there is no box :)
    adoro Rhapsody: the bravery of being out of range
    doug Sosa: well alfred has chosen to be as a box. that cries out for - are you ok in there?
    Eliza Madrigal: but if there is one, and it is alfred, then he is soft and snuggly
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    adoro Rhapsody: is there anybody in there ?
    Alfred Kelberry: i think i should bring my question to a buddhist center in sl. anyone has a landmark?
    Eos Amaterasu: Re your question, Alfred
    Eliza Madrigal: I like your question Alfred...
    Eos Amaterasu: I don't think Buddhism says that life is suffering
    adoro Rhapsody: maybe we can answer
    doug Sosa: the question felt to me like, too short, a mild move in a chess game.
    Eos Amaterasu: but rather that one of the charactistics of life, existence, is suffering, dissatisfaction
    adoro Rhapsody: of course
    Eos Amaterasu: also, nothing lasts
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, doug... we're not in strategy tonight...rough day?
    doug Sosa: one of the other charachteristics is joy, satisfaction, pleasure..
    adoro Rhapsody: there is always a balance
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, um... how does existence differ from life?

    Eliza Madrigal: I worked with 'desire as path' for a while last year...
    Eos Amaterasu listens
    doug Sosa: looking for balance is more interesting.
    adoro Rhapsody: balance between suffering and joy
    doug Sosa: desire as path also suggests that no desire = no path.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes in a way...
    Eliza Madrigal: or digging for deeper and deeper desires until desire unravels....
    doug Sosa: hi alfred
    adoro Rhapsody: is your question being answere Al ?
    Eos Amaterasu: what is the hunger of desire?
    adoro Rhapsody: do u feel we listen to you Alfred ?
    doug Sosa: trick question?
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza, think it can be unraveled?
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... yes that question and alfred's seem same...


    adoro Rhapsody: or are we hiding in our boxes too ?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) not by force of will for sure...
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bruce
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Bruce

    Eliza Madrigal: I do think there is a place of deep rest, however ....
    Bruce Mowbray: still rezzing, folkd
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Or maybe just sleepy... hehe
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, everyone.
    Eos Amaterasu: Alfred, I think suffering applies to our world, which is our experience of existence, which is our life
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza, if desire is suffering, then joy is pure detachment and stillness?
    Alfred Kelberry: oi, bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi,Aph!

    Eos Amaterasu: perhaps "not-enoughness" is the hunger of desire
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce. Hello everyone!

    Eos Amaterasu: (that's where the 90 secs brought me)
    Ewan Bonham: Hi aph
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Aph

    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: The game of not enoughness
    Eos Amaterasu: joy perhaps is pure experience without fixation
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, i hope there's a notion of "balance" in buddhism, otherwise it looks too... radical
    Aphrodite Macbain grins at the wonderful assembly of friends
    Alfred Kelberry: oi, aph
    Ewan Bonham: Enoughness...I like that..
    Eos Amaterasu: madhyamika is the mainstream philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism, and that's "the middle way"
    Eliza Madrigal: re balance... I found this little quote tonight :

    I was, hunched over office desk, 
    Mind an unruffled pool. 
    A thunderbolt! 
    My middle eye 
    Shot wide, revealing - my ordinary self. 

    - Layman Seiken, 11th Century

    doug Sosa: soundbites?
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza :)
    Eos Amaterasu: stanzas?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    doug Sosa: where is the experience in such a stanza?
    Eos Amaterasu: If the poem succeeds you succumb to it
    Ewan Bonham: Felt like an experience of being 'in my face'
    Eos Amaterasu: there is no separation between you and what it .... embodies
    Aphrodite Macbain: of recognition?
    Eos Amaterasu: but again it may not work for you
    Eos Amaterasu: chacun a son gout
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, mahayana "the middle way" - interesting... then, what is this "desire is suffering" way called?
    Eos Amaterasu: that's not exactly right either ("desire is suffering")
    Eos Amaterasu: suffering has a root, which can be experienced: attachment, fixation
    doug Sosa: If desire is suffering, why get up in the morning?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, not what I meant to imply... difficult to describe, by desire as path... more that anything can be
    Aphrodite Macbain: desire can lead to dependency
    Aphrodite Macbain: of clinging
    Eliza Madrigal: but fixation = stuck... not much harmonious there... movement, flow...
    Aphrodite Macbain: of inflexibility
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    doug Sosa: water can lead to drowning
    Eos Amaterasu: (doug wasn't here for the fish)
    Aphrodite Macbain: exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: just have to be careful
    doug Sosa: i see the fish :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: But do you see the seahorse?
    Eliza Madrigal: I do think balance may be a kind of flat word for what is dynamic...
    Aphrodite Macbain: sea the seehorse
    Alfred Kelberry: doug, it's a good note. maybe it applies here too. it depends on how you "manage" your desire.
    doug Sosa: Verbal formulas are a trap, avoind experience, like "hey, a fish!" or why someone choses aphrodite as a name, a perona, a role?
    Aphrodite Macbain: how are they a trap?
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't feel 'alive' when I feel balanced... but 'in tune'... maybe comes closer, attentive
    Aphrodite Macbain: What kind of trap?
    Ewan Bonham: A seahorse...rather than a seehorse..
    doug Sosa: they are linke piong pong balls, easy to serve and they bounce off.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. i was word playing, see?
    Ewan Bonham: i see only what i am attached to seeing..
    doug Sosa: by chosing aphrodite
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
    Aphrodite Macbain: how is that a trap?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, folks -- I have a friend here in RL -- and need to be with him.. So gotta leave.
    Bruce Mowbray: May all be well and happy.
    Eos Amaterasu: ~~
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bruce

    doug Sosa: dangerous word to play with. Alluring. Desire.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Bruce.
    Ewan Bonham: my seeing is narrow in focus as long as I feel I must attribute meaning to allthat I see..
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza, interesting note on not feeling alive when in balance. it's true, though, any movement or action requires a difference in force, hence imbalance.
    Ewan Bonham: Bye bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have not found my world has become dangerous. Just playful


    Alfred Kelberry: so again, even with mahayana "middle way" you get stuck in stillness
    Aphrodite Macbain: BING
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... stillness can be an attachment :)
    doug Sosa: Like the sonorousness of I only see what I am attached to seeing". Sounds good but, take it apart. which comes first, seeing or attachement? Are they not deeply intertweined?
    Ewan Bonham: That is the point..
    Ewan Bonham: ideally, we can see without attachment and free ourselves up to what the unadulterated experience has to offer..
    Alfred Kelberry: doug, seeing, i think ...unless you "didn't see it coming" :)
    Eos Amaterasu: we might notice micro-experiences like that, ewan, yes
    doug Sosa: "to see the essence, be without desire. to see the manifestations, have desire" Lao Tzu chap 1.
    Eos Amaterasu: how would you say that in your own words, doug?
    Alfred Kelberry: doug, what is manifistation in this context?
    doug Sosa: ouch i get the point too. My own words, desire and experience seem to intemongle in a complex dance with circumstances.
    Aphrodite Macbain smiles
    Eos Amaterasu: the cruelest mode, mixing memory and desire
    doug Sosa: manifestation is that essence is incarante in something(s).
    Aphrodite Macbain: nostalgia
    Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡ doug
    doug Sosa: But always goo to return to what we experience. Sitting here dusk turned to night.
    Eos Amaterasu: there can be a hangup on stillness being it
    Eos Amaterasu: but moving is also it
    Alfred Kelberry: doug, um... so it's ok to desire incarnated essence (whatever that is)?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Larch gold and jay call
                                    Heavenly yodels echo around the peaks

    doug Sosa: outside the temples in japan oftn two carved guard dogs. one has mouth opn, one closed. Hence communication.
    Eos Amaterasu: there's nothing as desireable as incarnated essence!
    Eos Amaterasu: Very nice, Aph - I "heard" that
    Alfred Kelberry: doug, nice detail :)
    doug Sosa: been there, had to ask.
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, ok, give me an example of it :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)Haiku for my sick friend. we have hiked togetehr in the Rockies
    Aphrodite Macbain: for 20 years
    Alfred Kelberry: aph, ok, hiking is lovely
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Lovely Aphrodite... direct care and affection for your friend
    Alfred Kelberry: i wish him get well
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks. I wanted to throw it out there in the middle of the steam of words
    Aphrodite Macbain: stream -tho steam is nice too
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, i thought so :)
    doug Sosa: Alfred, we'd really like to know, perhaps for relief of no longer having to worry about you. Why a box? (it is a bit refreshing).
    Eliza Madrigal: steam of words... yes.. conjurs envelope imagery
    Alfred Kelberry: maybe even more applicable :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Alfred. her name is KAte
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, sorry - her :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Kate
    Aphrodite Macbain: np. I just like affirming her.
    Alfred Kelberry: doug... it just looks cute :)
    Alfred Kelberry: to me that is
    Aphrodite Macbain: we can get stuck in words too, can't we?
    Aphrodite Macbain: semantics
    Eos Amaterasu: Alfred, re example of it, allow enoughness and anything is it
    doug Sosa: Thanks Alfred. No ordinary box would have said that. I will no longer worry about yoiu.
    Eos Amaterasu: fast or slow, desirous or abstemious
    Eliza Madrigal: yes if you can't hear more than words just 'clanging symbols'
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, nicely put Eliza
    Eos Amaterasu: cymbals?
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, hmm...
    Eliza Madrigal: It is very cute, Alfred :) I need to get to bed... before my heat hits the keys....
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: tintinabulation
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, those
    Eliza Madrigal: head
    Eos Amaterasu: tintin et milou
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: zzzzzzzzzzzz
    Aphrodite Macbain: interesting image Eliza
    Alfred Kelberry: night, eliza :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: night.all
    Ewan Bonham: Wonder what the image said..":)
    Eos Amaterasu: good night!
    Eliza Madrigal: Be well and happy. Night!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Go softly

    Eos Amaterasu loves "clanging symbols"
    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
    Eos Amaterasu: rofl
    Ewan Bonham: Iwill also depart now as well..
    Eos Amaterasu: midnight is about to appear here
    Ewan Bonham: thanks for the mind mining..:)
    Eos Amaterasu: the next 90 secs will be the witching 90 secs
    Eos Amaterasu: Good night, Ewan
    Eos Amaterasu: Good night, Alfred!
    Alfred Kelberry: night ,eos. thank you for your answers.



    Eos Amaterasu: Good night!

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