2010.09.16 13:00 - humanity's problems

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

     

    [13:02] Lia Rikugun: hello adoro
    [13:02] adoro Rhapsody: hi lia
    [13:03] adoro Rhapsody: its still quit here niw
    [13:03] adoro Rhapsody: now
    [13:03] adoro Rhapsody: quite
    [13:03] Lia Rikugun: usually there are some people coming
    [13:03] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [13:04] Lia Rikugun: maybe a few minutes later
    [13:04] adoro Rhapsody: sound of silence
    [13:04] Lia Rikugun: :)
    [13:04] adoro Rhapsody: listening to the birdssongs
    [13:04] Lia Rikugun: yes I just made the sound louder ;) so that i can hear
    [13:04] adoro Rhapsody: yas its very relaxing
    [13:04] adoro Rhapsody: yes
    [13:05] adoro Rhapsody: what time is it in rl with u ?
    [13:05] adoro Rhapsody: here is 22.05 pm
    [13:05] Lia Rikugun: 10pm and i am quite tired Zzzzz :)
    [13:05] Lia Rikugun: yes the same for me
    [13:05] adoro Rhapsody: european
    [13:05] Lia Rikugun: so you live in europe
    [13:06] adoro Rhapsody: holland here
    [13:06] Lia Rikugun: ah ok , germany here, aachen actually so not too far away ;)
    [13:06] adoro Rhapsody: schön
    [13:06] Lia Rikugun: holland is just 5 km away
    [13:06] adoro Rhapsody: yes i live near the hague / scheveningen
    [13:07] adoro Rhapsody: u must have heard of that
    [13:07] Lia Rikugun: den hag
    [13:07] Lia Rikugun: yes
    [13:07] adoro Rhapsody: ja
    [13:07] adoro Rhapsody: wohl
    [13:07] adoro Rhapsody: und ich bin wohl in der dom von aachen gewesen
    [13:08] Lia Rikugun: ja, den finde ich sehr schoen!
    [13:08] Lia Rikugun: ganz klein und fein
    [13:08] adoro Rhapsody: gewiss
    [13:08] adoro Rhapsody: wenn ich war in mein jugend
    [13:08] Lawrence Vyceratops: Hello
    [13:08] adoro Rhapsody: hi law
    [13:08] Lia Rikugun: hello lawrence
    [13:09] Lia Rikugun: nice to meet you
    [13:09] Lawrence Vyceratops: nice to meet you, Lia.
    [13:09] Lia Rikugun: have you been here before lawrence?
    [13:09] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, many times now.
    [13:09] Lia Rikugun: oh ok
    [13:09] Lia Rikugun: sorry, i am not sure if we have met, i didnt think so
    [13:10] adoro Rhapsody: what do u like most of PaB
    [13:10] adoro Rhapsody: ?
    [13:10] Lia Rikugun: so i am asking ;)
    [13:10] Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm not sure yet. ;)
    [13:10] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [13:10] Lia Rikugun: you know we are recording the chat log and posting it online, good
    [13:10] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes.

     

    why do we come here?

    [13:10] adoro Rhapsody: i like the way of communicating
    [13:10] Lia Rikugun: yes me too, listening
    [13:11] Lia Rikugun: and be open for a different perspective
    [13:11] Lia Rikugun: hello zon
    [13:11] adoro Rhapsody: hi zon
    [13:11] Zon Quar: hi all
    [13:11] Lia Rikugun: hey yaku!
    [13:11] Yakuzza Lethecus: nabend allerseits
    [13:12] Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    [13:12] Lawrence Vyceratops: I am very interested in what we think of why we come here.
    [13:12] Zon Quar: yaku
    [13:12] Lia Rikugun: always searching :)
    [13:12] Lia Rikugun: hi bruce
    [13:12] Lia Rikugun: hey bertram
    [13:13] Lia Rikugun: wow nice jump bertram!
    [13:13] Lawrence Vyceratops: Searching wth what intention, do you think?
    [13:13] Bertram Jacobus: hy everybody :-)
    [13:13] Zon Quar: bruce, bert
    [13:13] Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Bert, Lawrence, Zon, Yaku, adoro, and Lia! (whew!)
    [13:13] Lia Rikugun: i dont think i will find anything in particular
    [13:13] Bertram Jacobus: bäh. did it wrong ty lol :-)
    [13:13] Lia Rikugun: but just the intention to search
    [13:13] Lia Rikugun: and keep questioning
    [13:13] Lia Rikugun: that is what is important to me
    [13:13] Lia Rikugun: thats why i come here :)
    [13:14] Lia Rikugun: and you?
    [13:14] Lia Rikugun: hi mick
    [13:14] Zon Quar: isnt tha fun..to serach
    [13:14] Mickorod Renard: hi guys
    [13:14] Zon Quar: mick
    [13:14] Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Mick.
    [13:14] Mickorod Renard: :)
    [13:14] Bertram Jacobus: hey mickey ! ;-)
    [13:14] Lawrence Vyceratops: I am very distrubed by the inequality of our society.
    [13:14] Mickorod Renard: heyyyy bertie
    [13:14] Bertram Jacobus: heheee :-))
    [13:14] Lawrence Vyceratops: My intention is to hopefully meet others who are also concerned.
    [13:15] Lia Rikugun: in what way concerned lawrence?

     

    problems of humanity

    [13:15] Lawrence Vyceratops: Concerned about the very serious problems that face humanity. The problems of war, poverty, sickness, etc.
    [13:16] Mickorod Renard: Hi Nio
    [13:16] nio Artful: Halllooooo
    [13:16] nio Artful: to all
    [13:16] Lia Rikugun: hello nio
    [13:16] Bertram Jacobus: hi nio :-)
    [13:16] Lia Rikugun: oh how cute
    [13:16] Zon Quar: nio
    [13:17] Lia Rikugun: nio, have you been here before?
    [13:17] nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*YESSSSSS!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
    [13:17] Mickorod Renard: I suspect we are all concerned to most if not all those issues lawence
    [13:17] Bertram Jacobus: and lawrence - didn´t i tell already ? i try to engage in a project from which everybody shall get a basic income without any conditions ...
    [13:17] Lia Rikugun: ok :)))))) very good, just to let you know we are recording the chat log
    [13:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: hi nio
    [13:17] nio Artful: Helllooooo!!! yacuzza
    [13:18] Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, Bert? I do not like the system of money at all.
    [13:18] Bertram Jacobus: but we should be realistic lawrence
    [13:18] Zon Quar: money makes teh world go round
    [13:18] Lawrence Vyceratops: Mick, I would hope so, but it rarely comes up in anyones conversation.
    [13:18] Lawrence Vyceratops: Money is the root of all evil. ;)
    [13:19] Lawrence Vyceratops: Realistic?
    [13:19] Bertram Jacobus: money must not be bad - as a mean to interchange - it´s okay
    [13:19] Lawrence Vyceratops: Is not poverty and war real?
    [13:19] Mickorod Renard: Its a fair observation Lawrence
    [13:19] Zon Quar: dont think so, evil is inside us
    [13:19] Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm not sure I would agree with that, Zon.
    [13:19] Zon Quar: money is just a tool
    [13:20] Lawrence Vyceratops: A tool for...?
    [13:20] Lawrence Vyceratops: Inequality?
    [13:20] Zon Quar: yto be used well or badly
    [13:20] Bertram Jacobus: i prefere well :-)
    [13:20] Mickorod Renard: We generaly end up discussing love to all men and women in round about ways. I think this is because we feel too iinept in being able to change the world in such a massive way
    [13:21] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, so I think it is very important to keep these issues in the forefront of our minds daily.
    [13:21] Lawrence Vyceratops: Otherwise, nothing changes.
    [13:22] Lawrence Vyceratops: Very easy to ignore the problems of the world when we are comfortable, but it doesn't change the fact that so many continue to suffer needlessly.
    [13:22] Bruce Mowbray really hopes that Lawrence's theme will become the topic of a theme session soon.
    [13:23] Lawrence Vyceratops: Me too.
    [13:23] Bertram Jacobus: but without a spiritual background - i don´t think, that without it a complete solution could be found ...
    [13:23] Mickorod Renard: I myself I think, am sensitive, and feel the grief for many sad things that occur. I too end up feeling hopeless in being unable to stop the hurt going on in the world
    [13:23] nio Artful: Nuuuuuuuuuuu!
    [13:23] nio Artful: money system mirrors the feeling we have that other people have a lack of empathy and understanding in our needs and so there is trust and that others even appreciate as enough to look after us when we need something or they have or they have the open emotional radars to pay atension......so we want a fast curent reward of our service to them because we dont trust them enough that they will by their heart care for our needs to.........a lack of trust to others love
    [13:23] nio Artful: Nuuuuuuu!
    [13:23] nio Artful: Nuuuu! trust ...i forgot the no..
    [13:25] nio Artful: ocomercial and trade is the opposite of real love
    [13:25] nio Artful: comercial
    [13:25] adoro Rhapsody: i like the colour of nio's hair
    [13:25] Bertram Jacobus: to me, hate is the contrary
    [13:25] Bruce Mowbray: commercial.
    [13:25] Mickorod Renard: perhaps, on a local scale to begin with, if we can learn to be a little more perceptive here, that may have a knock on effect to make the world just a little bit better
    [13:25] nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*YESSSSSS!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
    [13:25] nio Artful: metoo
    [13:25] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, Mick.
    [13:26] Lawrence Vyceratops: The more we discuss these problems with others, the more aware and informed we become.
    [13:26] Bertram Jacobus: me too : agree mick. that is one angle
    [13:26] Bertram Jacobus: hi qt
    [13:26] Lawrence Vyceratops: Knowledge is power.
    [13:26] Lia Rikugun: hi Qt
    [13:26] Qt Core: Hi all
    [13:26] adoro Rhapsody: hi qt
    [13:26] Mickorod Renard: hi QT
    [13:26] Lawrence Vyceratops: And yes, nio, commercial trade is the opposite of love.
    [13:26] Lawrence Vyceratops: It is selfish.
    [13:26] nio Artful: hi,,QT
    [13:27] adoro Rhapsody: but fair trade ?
    [13:27] Bruce Mowbray wonders if Lawrence is familiar with the concept of "Equanimity" (in Buddhism, especially, but in other traditions also).
    [13:27] Lawrence Vyceratops: there is nothing fair about fair trade.
    [13:27] adoro Rhapsody: wow
    [13:27] Bruce Mowbray: wow, indeed.
    [13:27] adoro Rhapsody: what is unfair about fair trade ?
    [13:27] Zon Quar: we need commerce and interchange of outpts of our work
    [13:27] Mickorod Renard: can you say more Bruce?
    [13:28] Mickorod Renard: re equinimity
    [13:28] Bertram Jacobus: hey cal
    [13:28] Lawrence Vyceratops: Talk about it to people in Honduras, Jamaica, India, etc.
    [13:28] Mickorod Renard: Hi Cal
    [13:28] Bruce Mowbray: I am referring to the "Equanimity" in the Four Immeasurables.
    [13:28] adoro Rhapsody: hi cal
    [13:28] Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Cal and Qt.
    [13:28] Lia Rikugun: hi calvino
    [13:28] nio Artful: we would never ask from our benefits and services to themhildren to pay us for our
    [13:28] adoro Rhapsody: is ecuanimity the same as balance ?
    [13:28] Zon Quar: cal, qt
    [13:28] Lawrence Vyceratops: They will tell you how massive corporations have taken over and created great poverty, thanks to fair trade.
    [13:28] nio Artful: oh typos
    [13:28] Calvino Rabeni: Hi everyone
    [13:29] Bruce Mowbray thinks: WOW. This is a high-powered session!
    [13:29] Qt Core: hi Cal
    [13:29] nio Artful: we would never ask from our children to pay us for our services
    [13:29] adoro Rhapsody: watch out for high power
    [13:29] Bertram Jacobus: hey arch
    [13:29] Lawrence Vyceratops: Right, nio.
    [13:29] nio Artful: Helllooooo!!! kalvino
    [13:29] Bruce Mowbray: Equanimity is similar to "balance" -- I interpret it to mean without preference or prejudice.
    [13:29] adoro Rhapsody: hi arch
    [13:29] Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Arch.
    [13:30] adoro Rhapsody: and symmetry ?
    [13:30] Lawrence Vyceratops: Our society thrives on imbalance and inequality.
    [13:30] Bertram Jacobus: [binggg]
    [13:31] Calvino Rabeni: Full house today
    [13:31] Zon Quar: so, what are the options ? how should world economy be organised to be more fair ?
    [13:31] Lawrence Vyceratops: And ironically it is destroying society.
    [13:32] Mickorod Renard: I often wonder why life has evolved to what it has in humanity when there appears so many better alternatives
    [13:32] Mickorod Renard: maybe the answer is in that
    [13:32] Lawrence Vyceratops: There is the idea of a resource based economy. I'm not sure when the idea developed, but Jacque Fresco is one who speaks about it.
    [13:32] Qt Core: instincts against rationality ?
    [13:32] Zon Quar: can u tell more ?
    [13:32] Bertram Jacobus: the base should be free zon and more needs could be worked for , for example - like the internet is already today mostly ...
    [13:33] adoro Rhapsody: economy is about scarce sources
    [13:33] Mickorod Renard: something like that happened in argentina when their economy went bang some years ago
    [13:33] Lawrence Vyceratops: It revolves around the idea that that the world's resources belong to everyone and not a few.
    [13:33] adoro Rhapsody: difference between demand and supply
    [13:33] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [13:33] adoro Rhapsody: communism ?
    [13:34] adoro Rhapsody: real communism ?
    [13:34] Zon Quar: but how to do it in practise ?
    [13:34] Lawrence Vyceratops: Not, communism. Communism is a money-based system/
    [13:34] Archmage Atlantis: Marxism
    [13:34] Lawrence Vyceratops: There is great inequality in Communisim.
    [13:34] Mickorod Renard: there must be some satisfaction included too
    [13:34] adoro Rhapsody: nature , immaterialism ?
    [13:34] Zon Quar: we need money to count, like meters to build
    [13:34] adoro Rhapsody: cooperarion ?
    [13:35] Lawrence Vyceratops: The idea of resouce-based economy is that humans are united and work together for mankind, rather than one group against another.
    [13:35] nio Artful: how can we awake of our anesthesia and start feel other people needs/? that is the problem i feel
    [13:35] adoro Rhapsody: free exchange of resources
    [13:35] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, nio, how can we?
    [13:35] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, adoro.
    [13:35] adoro Rhapsody: just do it
    [13:36] adoro Rhapsody: like we do it here
    [13:36] Lawrence Vyceratops: By talking about it, like we do here.
    [13:36] Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes.
    [13:36] Archmage Atlantis: Agree there must be some satisfaction (reward)....that is why Marxism is too idealistic.....but some demand more reward than others
    [13:36] Qt Core: can we do all that without a single world government ?
    [13:36] Mickorod Renard: where r u adoro?
    [13:36] adoro Rhapsody: holland here
    [13:36] Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm not sure what you mean, Arch.
    [13:37] nio Artful: Nuuuuuuuuuuu!
    [13:37] nio Artful: as far we are in low consiusness deffending to the pain of uncertaness our social radar are not awake so we sent the wright mesage to the others....i am selfish i canot feel you dont trust me i am anesthetic not to pain ........i have m=no faith skils no vision
    [13:37] Mickorod Renard: we need the motivation , maybe well being or recreation would suffice
    [13:37] Lawrence Vyceratops: No government. No hierarchy. That is great inequality.
    [13:37] Zon Quar: must go, bye all
    [13:37] adoro Rhapsody: bye zon
    [13:37] Mickorod Renard: bye zon
    [13:37] Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye, Zon.
    [13:38] Lawrence Vyceratops: But a world united through technology and education.
    [13:38] adoro Rhapsody: why must government keep equality ?
    [13:38] Archmage Atlantis: Your statement of a resource based economy approaches Marxism in that it requires by in by everyone to an ideal.
    [13:38] Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't think there can ever be an "ideal".
    [13:38] Lawrence Vyceratops: But there can be "better"! ;)
    [13:38] adoro Rhapsody: maybe we dont need government to be equal ?
    [13:39] nio Artful: Nuuuuuuuuuuu!
    [13:39] nio Artful: so its mater of a creative new idea of how to make a new economy but how to have skils to handle life with trust and faith ......to be in here and now with out fear and no anestesia that .......slow down our empathy sympathy and compacion and love
    [13:39] adoro Rhapsody: so we can use the costs of government for all
    [13:39] Lawrence Vyceratops: I think not. Government creates conflict.
    [13:39] adoro Rhapsody: when government is in favour of the rich or the poor
    [13:39] Lawrence Vyceratops: No costs without money.
    [13:39] Mickorod Renard: I have done much work in my life to ease my concience(if thats my excuse) but I have a sneaky feeling that if I was offered lots of money I may become a slob and act like an ass
    [13:39] Archmage Atlantis: Then we will have to go back to religious societies
    [13:39] Lawrence Vyceratops: Exactly, adoro.
    [13:40] Qt Core: call it administration, if not government, a place where decision are made and plan planned
    [13:40] Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, I don't like religion either. haha Also creates conflict.
    [13:40] adoro Rhapsody: not when religion is in favour of the rich or the poor
    [13:40] Lawrence Vyceratops: That could be Qt.
    [13:40] Lawrence Vyceratops: Farmers know more about growing food than politicians
    [13:40] Calvino Rabeni: Both government and religion have the function to manage conflict
    [13:41] adoro Rhapsody: so religion can be the same as government overhead
    [13:41] Calvino Rabeni: they do it in different ways
    [13:41] Archmage Atlantis: There is also the option of a king, emperor, or pharoah
    [13:41] Lawrence Vyceratops: Engineers know more about technology than politicains.
    [13:41] Qt Core: you now... this remind me quite a lot about Star TYrek society ;-)
    [13:41] Lawrence Vyceratops: Politicians know nothing!
    [13:41] Lawrence Vyceratops: Emperor is "higher" than subjects. Inequality.
    [13:41] adoro Rhapsody: they do know about power issues
    [13:41] Lawrence Vyceratops: They know about lying and cheating.
    [13:42] adoro Rhapsody: just like a rock-band
    [13:42] Lawrence Vyceratops: That's no good.
    [13:42] Mickorod Renard: I think, although I dont recomend it, that the only way to sort out the human race would be to breed something else to replace it. We have elevated ourselves as master and destroyer
    [13:42] adoro Rhapsody: no primus inter parus
    [13:42] adoro Rhapsody: like a jamm sesssion
    [13:42] Archmage Atlantis: If technicians make the decisions, there will be some who will lie and cheat to get ahead
    [13:42] Lawrence Vyceratops: Arch, only if there is money involved.
    [13:42] Calvino Rabeni: Agree with arch
    [13:42] adoro Rhapsody: no conductor
    [13:42] Archmage Atlantis: You even see that in acadamea
    [13:42] Lawrence Vyceratops: Without money, there is no such desire.
    [13:42] Calvino Rabeni: there's always something to be gained
    [13:43] Lawrence Vyceratops: Corruption is all about inequalities stemming from money.
    [13:43] adoro Rhapsody: no guardian
    [13:43] Archmage Atlantis: Wrong, money does not create desire.....it is only a proxy
    [13:43] nio Artful: how can we awake ? if we sleep we dont feel ..good not to pain but but for relations .......if i dont feel you how you trust me? i can do bad things on you and i will not understand even ...i am anesthetic....i need to have a new vision a faith new skils to face life awke with out fear a new pholoshophy
    [13:43] Calvino Rabeni: if not money, than influence, or power, or fame or some other thing
    [13:43] Lia Rikugun: (I am sorry, am pretty tired, want to go to bed, can someone please greet any newcomers?)
    [13:43] Mickorod Renard: academea often creates people who are better educated at manipulating arguaments
    [13:43] Lawrence Vyceratops: Cal, those are all based on money too.
    [13:43] Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well lia
    [13:43] Calvino Rabeni: I don't agree
    [13:43] Calvino Rabeni: Money is a proxy for all those things
    [13:43] Mickorod Renard: nite Lia
    [13:43] Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye, Lia.
    [13:44] nio Artful: bye...
    [13:44] adoro Rhapsody: money is trust
    [13:44] adoro Rhapsody: giute nacht lia
    [13:44] Lawrence Vyceratops: Why does a person seek power?
    [13:44] Lia Rikugun: good night, so please tell a newcomer that wwe record the logs.. will post the log later thanks!
    [13:44] nio Artful: good question
    [13:44] Qt Core: What about the open source movement where power and fame is given to the ones more involved/active/smart
    [13:44] Mickorod Renard: power is security
    [13:44] adoro Rhapsody: why do a people seek power ?
    [13:44] Lawrence Vyceratops: To have more than another.
    [13:44] adoro Rhapsody: or a state ?
    [13:45] adoro Rhapsody: why not to be more as another ?
    [13:45] Lawrence Vyceratops: Have to go. GF forgot her calculus textbook...
    [13:45] nio Artful: because he does not see open hearts round ready to feel ......so he feels unsafe....
    [13:45] Archmage Atlantis: A person seeks power because he or she feels a psychological reward from obtaining it
    [13:45] Mickorod Renard: bye Lawrence
    [13:45] Lawrence Vyceratops: Gotta take the book to her...
    [13:45] Qt Core: bye Lawrence
    [13:45] adoro Rhapsody: its the same with choclate
    [13:46] Lawrence Vyceratops: Peace out, everyone! :)
    [13:46] adoro Rhapsody: it gives a feeling of comfort
    [13:46] Archmage Atlantis: Peace out, L
    [13:48] Mickorod Renard: how about we all have one go at thinking of something , just one thing, that would sort the world out?
    [13:48] Mickorod Renard: one each
    [13:48] Calvino Rabeni: like one best pick to make some difference?
    [13:48] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [13:48] Mickorod Renard: yes, maybe
    [13:48] nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*YESSSSSS!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
    [13:48] nio Artful: but if the sosiety had love and could pay atension on him he would not have that need to get power i suppose or the possibilites would become less for such a disharmony in his needsy
    [13:49] nio Artful: what you mean one go?
    [13:49] nio Artful: i am greek
    [13:49] Mickorod Renard: he he
    [13:49] Mickorod Renard: I mean just one suggestion
    [13:49] adoro Rhapsody: every body one suggestion ?
    [13:49] Calvino Rabeni: I think he means - if you could make one change - to help the state of the world - what would it be?
    [13:49] Archmage Atlantis: In King Salomon's famous judgement, he was going to divide a baby in half to satisfy 2 mother's claims to it.....the true mother was identified by giving up the baby so it would stay alive.....this days, I'm not 100% sure both women wouldn't wind up with 1/2 a dead baby.
    [13:49] nio Artful: if we all had same opinion? about good and bad?
    [13:50] Mickorod Renard: yea, thats a nice story Arch
    [13:50] adoro Rhapsody: western woman and the supermarket life
    [13:51] Mickorod Renard: I was thinking, maybe if the world aggreed to just have one child each couple
    [13:51] adoro Rhapsody: like in china
    [13:51] Calvino Rabeni: less cynicism might be a choice
    [13:51] Mickorod Renard: yes, but by agreement
    [13:51] Qt Core: cover the sahara desert with solar panel, orr pushing for fusion power, find cheap and aboundant ebergy
    [13:51] adoro Rhapsody: what comes after cynism /
    [13:52] Qt Core: (and green too)
    [13:52] adoro Rhapsody: good desertec initiative ! qt !
    [13:52] Archmage Atlantis: bitter words, then war adoro
    [13:52] Mickorod Renard: the problem will still be there if we keep overpopulating
    [13:52] adoro Rhapsody: no
    [13:52] Calvino Rabeni: My first guess was - less population
    [13:52] adoro Rhapsody: there were cynics in roman times too
    [13:52] nio Artful: if i want power i can find new ways to bypass all your solutions i can invent new needs to tempt other people and become strong again
    [13:52] Archmage Atlantis: Rome was always at war somewhere
    [13:52] Qt Core: (or find more space, the space is vast ;-) )
    [13:53] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [13:53] adoro Rhapsody: not a good example
    [13:53] Liza Deischer: hey :)
    [13:53] Qt Core: Hi Liza
    [13:53] nio Artful: hi..
    [13:53] Mickorod Renard: Hi Liza
    [13:53] adoro Rhapsody: creating wealth
    [13:53] Archmage Atlantis: Agree nio
    [13:53] Calvino Rabeni: How much wealth is enough?
    [13:53] Calvino Rabeni: I think the answer is - never enough
    [13:54] adoro Rhapsody: that depends
    [13:54] Archmage Atlantis: Depends on the person Cal
    [13:54] Yakuzza Lethecus: i remember a ted talk where a guy said that it´s 60k $ in the usa :P
    [13:54] Mickorod Renard: oops, pressed wrong button
    [13:54] adoro Rhapsody: when people are happy not much wealth is needed
    [13:54] nio Artful: soi have read in magasine focus that in our we have the miror neurones.....thir job is to make us feel other people emotions and needs
    [13:54] Liza Deischer: :) lots of wrong buttons in the viewer :)
    [13:55] Mickorod Renard: keeping people happy is part of the problem
    [13:55] adoro Rhapsody: wealth is not the same as well being
    [13:56] Archmage Atlantis: Nor is being "happy" everyones goal or desire
    [13:56] Calvino Rabeni: true
    [13:56] Mickorod Renard: it would cost me too much to keep a hareem
    [13:56] Archmage Atlantis: Some seek conflict
    [13:56] Calvino Rabeni: it's what we're "supposed" to do
    [13:56] adoro Rhapsody: quantitative or qualitative of life
    [13:56] Calvino Rabeni: seeking happiness is a safe kind of goal for most people to agree on
    [13:56] Calvino Rabeni: but not necessarily what humans really want
    [13:57] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [13:57] nio Artful: these miror neurons cells are working well when we are not anesthetic.....then we love and we behave to others as parents to kids we dont need payment we love
    [13:57] Calvino Rabeni: and as a social contract it might lead to problems
    [13:57] Archmage Atlantis: Happiness is a straw man in the discussion
    [13:57] Mickorod Renard: one way of doing something would be to adopt a poor person
    [13:57] adoro Rhapsody: best things in life are free !
    [13:58] Calvino Rabeni: I agree adoro
    [13:58] adoro Rhapsody: but as we see a person as poor hemight feel himself as rich
    [13:58] Eliza Madrigal: Hi All :) Just passing by...
    [13:58] Mickorod Renard: thats a good point
    [13:58] adoro Rhapsody: so we stichmatise him as poor
    [13:58] Calvino Rabeni: Have a seat :)
    [13:58] nio Artful: but when we are anesthetic in order to feel less pain of the fear of uncertainess bla bla bla then we lose our ability to feel others to so we sent the message to the others who need our atension....that we are not people who can trust...so we need comercial
    [13:58] Liza Deischer: hi Eliza :)
    [13:59] Archmage Atlantis: And when the particular poor person you adopt harms you or your family in some way, or endangers them....then what?
    [13:59] Calvino Rabeni: There's a lot in what Nio is saying, but it takes careful thought
    [13:59] Mickorod Renard: when I think of some of my stresses, its more about sustaining my expensive lifestyle
    [13:59] adoro Rhapsody: its a luxury problem
    [13:59] Calvino Rabeni: affluenza, it has been called
    [13:59] Mickorod Renard: thats it then,,we should all become monks
    [14:00] Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahn...vs_memory.html // just what i mentioned before
    [14:00] Archmage Atlantis: Even monasteries are attacked, monks are killed by those who oppose what they stand for
    [14:01] Archmage Atlantis: Hermits probably have the best chance *g*
    [14:01] adoro Rhapsody: but when they are not affraid to die , there is no problem
    [14:01] Calvino Rabeni: TED is the modern Philosophers Forum
    [14:01] Mickorod Renard: ok,,but then we would have to fight to retain our lil cave or grotto to stay a hermit
    [14:02] Yakuzza Lethecus: the different buddist traditions in tibet were fighting each other in the past
    [14:02] Calvino Rabeni: You're ideas are complex and nuanced
    [14:02] Archmage Atlantis: That has a great deal of truth in it adoro
    [14:02] Yakuzza Lethecus: violently
    [14:02] Mickorod Renard: I think they are stillfighting Yaku
    [14:03] Mickorod Renard: one great comfort is in not being affraid to die
    [14:03] adoro Rhapsody: so we can reuse fighting capacity to helping capacity
    [14:03] Mickorod Renard: but its not much comfort to their loved ones
    [14:04] adoro Rhapsody: that depend how there loved ones look at dieing too
    [14:04] adoro Rhapsody: whe they see hima as an saint
    [14:04] adoro Rhapsody: when
    [14:04] adoro Rhapsody: as a saint
    [14:04] adoro Rhapsody: the are proud he died fot good sake
    [14:04] adoro Rhapsody: they
    [14:05] adoro Rhapsody: for
    [14:05] Calvino Rabeni: Ah 2PM, I must be off - take care everyone -
    [14:05] Archmage Atlantis: "What a piece of work is man" :)
    [14:05] Mickorod Renard: I suppose we could genetically engineer a spieces of human that can live as water dwelling creatures, then give people the option to become land or sea based
    [14:05] Mickorod Renard: bye Cal
    [14:05] adoro Rhapsody: bye cal
    [14:06] Archmage Atlantis: Bye all
    [14:06] Mickorod Renard: bye Arch
    [14:06] Liza Deischer: going to , not being able to concentrate
    [14:06] adoro Rhapsody: just reversed engineering the evolution ?
    [14:06] Mickorod Renard: bye Liza...watz up?
    [14:06] Liza Deischer: just tired
    [14:06] Mickorod Renard: not well?
    [14:06] adoro Rhapsody: that could be involution ?
    [14:06] Mickorod Renard: ok,,go get some sleep woman
    [14:07] adoro Rhapsody: letting go
    [14:07] nio Artful: bye....
    [14:07] adoro Rhapsody: bye
    [14:07] Mickorod Renard: true, but often u see, things do complete circles
    [14:07] Mickorod Renard: bye nio
    [14:07] nio Artful: i have to deactivate a million gestures lol..
    [14:08] Mickorod Renard: thats very decadent of u nio
    [14:08] Mickorod Renard: bye yaku
    [14:08] adoro Rhapsody: hi yak
    [14:08] Yakuzza Lethecus: night every
    [14:09] Mickorod Renard: have fun
    [14:09] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [14:09] nio Artful: bye...
    [14:09] adoro Rhapsody: Hey!
    [14:09] Mickorod Renard: I may have to go now, need some sleep too, had a touch of flu
    [14:10] adoro Rhapsody: ok
    [14:10] adoro Rhapsody: bye
    [14:10] Qt Core: bye and take care
    [14:10] adoro Rhapsody: recover fast
    [14:10] Mickorod Renard: bye guys,
    [14:10] Mickorod Renard: thankyou
    [14:10] adoro Rhapsody: Hey!
    [14:10] Qt Core: (i'm veri distracted tonight)
    [14:10] adoro Rhapsody: what u mean /
    [14:10] adoro Rhapsody: ?
    [14:10] adoro Rhapsody: distracted ?
    [14:11] adoro Rhapsody: tired ?
    [14:11] adoro Rhapsody: or uninterested ?
    [14:11] adoro Rhapsody: or sleepy ?
    [14:12] adoro Rhapsody: so what would u talk about ?
    [14:13] adoro Rhapsody: or be silent about ?
    [14:13] adoro Rhapsody: just listen to the birds here
    [14:13] adoro Rhapsody: together
    [14:14] adoro Rhapsody: watching the fountain
    [14:14] adoro Rhapsody: gives me peace of mind
    [14:16] Qt Core: back, distracted as in trying to do two things at the same time
    [14:17] adoro Rhapsody: ok like multitasking
    [14:17] adoro Rhapsody: so both things half
    [14:17] adoro Rhapsody: not with full interest
    [14:17] adoro Rhapsody: it can make u tired
    [14:18] adoro Rhapsody: and it can be unsatisfying
    [14:18] adoro Rhapsody: for both
    [14:18] Qt Core: i'm quite used to multitask bith at home and at work
    [14:18] adoro Rhapsody: me too
    [14:19] Qt Core: sometimes it help when you have a short attention span ;-)
    [14:19] adoro Rhapsody: watch tv and chat on internet
    [14:19] adoro Rhapsody: adhd ?
    [14:19] Qt Core: chat and stumble usually
    [14:19] adoro Rhapsody: or as a child
    [14:20] Qt Core: more like boriing first task, than the second is welcome ;-)
    [14:20] adoro Rhapsody: 10 = 15 minutes attention span for one issue
    [14:20] adoro Rhapsody: than u look for something else
    [14:20] adoro Rhapsody: 10-15
    [14:20] adoro Rhapsody: or so
    [14:21] adoro Rhapsody: that is in an environment with much different challenges
    [14:21] adoro Rhapsody: but here we can take rest
    [14:21] adoro Rhapsody: and relax
    [14:22] adoro Rhapsody: and try to focus un one issue
    [14:22] adoro Rhapsody: for a linger time

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