2010.09.21 07:00 - between cycle slices

The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

As noted later, it is becoming "usual" to be alone for 15+ minutes.  Some people then enter.  The topic of the day (ToD) starts with 10-17 min. left in the hour.
HA!!!!  Now that I am unemployed (again) I can stay longer.  Carrying topics into ...

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: meep-meep :)
Alfred Kelberry: oi, riddle
Riddle Sideways: good morning, Alfred
Riddle Sideways: what a cute outfit
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: thank you

No wasting time, we are into double threads.
            IT JUST TOOK ME 20+ KEYSTOKES TO GET THE INDENTING THE WAY IT USE TO WORK   :(

Alfred Kelberry: what's this badge on your chest?
Riddle Sideways: did you make it yourself
Riddle Sideways: oh, it is the PaB button from some long time ago
Alfred Kelberry: no, it's from viewer 2.0, i think
Alfred Kelberry: i see :)
Alfred Kelberry: you're a long timer then? :)
Riddle Sideways: nearly one of the first
Alfred Kelberry: oh, i see storm on the map
Riddle Sideways: and you... have you been here before?
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Alfred Kelberry: more often lately than usual
Riddle Sideways: I thought meep
Alfred Kelberry: so, you are a founder in a way?
Riddle Sideways: in a calendar way
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: neat
Riddle Sideways: did you buy your av?
Alfred Kelberry: no, it's free
Alfred Kelberry: i found it in my inventory. i don't remember how it got there.
Riddle Sideways: I have some like that, just found
Alfred Kelberry: i think it came with 2.0 update, but not sure

I doubt it came with 2.0. I didn't get it during update.  Too many things are being blamed on a simple software upgrade version.  I have no problems with 2.0, but I wish Linden paid me to say that.

Well, since Boxy is a kinda non-human av, I thought I would match by becoming Honey Bee.  Which came free to me.

Alfred Kelberry: ha! cute one :)
Alfred Kelberry: bee :)
Riddle Sideways: I found this in a free box
Riddle Sideways: any other topics in your box
Alfred Kelberry: um...
Alfred Kelberry: i had a few...
Riddle Sideways: most times when I bring a topic, it gets over run by others
Riddle Sideways: too much like forcing chat

Alfred Kelberry: where is everyone?
Alfred Kelberry: is it always like that at this hour?
Riddle Sideways: most times this session does not get going until near it's end
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Riddle Sideways: I sit quiet for 15-20
Alfred Kelberry: zazen? :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Alfred Kelberry: cal likes this seat :)
Riddle Sideways: then it starts
Riddle Sideways: so do I
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Riddle Sideways: most others enter at the ball thingy over there
Riddle Sideways: I can watch them rez
Alfred Kelberry: convenient

Alfred Kelberry: i thought you just liked the symmetry with the entrance pillars :)
Riddle Sideways wonders where my profile has gone. It is empty
     Did you ever look at your own profile...  and find it empty... and question existance/history
Riddle Sideways: well, symmetry is nice but not that great :)
               --BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Riddle Sideways: symmetry seems to get stuck in only being haves
Riddle Sideways: what about the have nots
Alfred Kelberry: i observed my tea and found that i'm thirsty :)
Riddle Sideways: my coffee cup is half
Riddle Sideways: full or empty ?????
Alfred Kelberry: i like symmetry... or better put - harmony :)
Riddle Sideways: yes, harmony is nice word
Riddle Sideways: symmetry is almost 'neutral' word
Alfred Kelberry: cal in harmony :) http://lmrk.me/lm/14

Boxy has a really neat site.  The escapades of Boxy around SL in photos.  Check it out.  [wishes I had the time/energy/talent/etc.]

Riddle Sideways: oh, that is very nice pic
Alfred Kelberry: thank you :)
Riddle Sideways: I like your whole site
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Riddle Sideways: many good photos of my friends

Boxy (profile name=Alfred) and I finally got the topic going.

Riddle Sideways: as a robot, you must have some really deep thoughts
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: or processes :)
Riddle Sideways: have you thought about what goes on between clock cycles
Alfred Kelberry: stillness?
Alfred Kelberry: oi, ed
Alfred Kelberry: i like the notion of a ghost in the machine :)
Riddle Sideways: and the darknet
Riddle Sideways: at the edge of clock cycles you are in a state
Alfred Kelberry: random sequence of codes that give rise to consciousness
Riddle Sideways: and at the next clock edge you in another state
Riddle Sideways: but, what of the tween

Bruce Enters

Riddle Sideways: Hi Bruce
Alfred Kelberry: oi, bruce :)
Alfred Kelberry: ny fan :)
Bruce Mowbray: oi oi!
Riddle Sideways: see, Bruce has that same I E> NY shirt as in your pic
Bruce Mowbray: I have them to give away if anyone wants it.
            --BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: riddle, i think you poke into the quantum scale :)
Bruce Mowbray: I will be going to NYC on Thursday -- so it's my way of celebrating.
Alfred Kelberry: i don't think it'll fit my boxy figure :)
Riddle Sideways: I not E> (how do ppl do that <3 ?) NYC so much
Riddle Sideways: I go there in a month
Bruce Mowbray: What is this "poking into the quantum scale"?
Riddle Sideways: yes, boxie quantum is one way of talking/thinking about it
Riddle Sideways: bruce, boxie is a robot
Riddle Sideways: with a huge brain
Bruce Mowbray: . . . . Oh?!
Riddle Sideways: but what state is it in between clock cycles?
Bruce Mowbray: He looks like an avi to me. . .
Bruce Mowbray: "between clock cycles" -- you mean. . . seconds, minutes, hours, -- or
Riddle Sideways: please, do not judge a bot by it's cheap shoddy cardboardy ness appearances
Bruce Mowbray: if the "clock" is the earth -- then years?
Bruce Mowbray: or if the "clock" is the moon, then months?
Bruce Mowbray: what is a "clock cycle"?
Alfred Kelberry: this cardboard is custom made in japan
Bruce Mowbray: Blub loves the necktie.

Riddle Sideways: in the sence of a cpu chip, the clock cycle is the pulse that changes from one instruction to the next
Bruce Mowbray listens intently for more.
Riddle Sideways: in the sence of earthly realms...
Riddle Sideways: maybe the smallest common time unit you can observe
Bruce Mowbray: mmmmm. But what you're actually observing is a change of "state," right?
Riddle Sideways: the tree might observe a fraction of season
Riddle Sideways: yes, change of state
Bruce Mowbray: so, the faster the CPU, the shorter the time cycle?
Riddle Sideways: tree would have day/night states and rain/sun states
Riddle Sideways: yes
Alfred Kelberry: actually, state is what registers represent. clock cycles just tick :)

Technology that is more correct then what I was saying.  Actually, at the clock tick...  All the registers, ALU, cache, buses, gates, pre-fetch, look-ahead, buffers, etc., etc. have gotten their little voltages over the zero/one value dividing line and sort of declared who (one/zero) they are voting for.

Riddle Sideways: supposedly, a memory fetch takes a finite time
Bruce Mowbray: The rings of a tree seem to be a sort of clock: registering annual states.
Bruce Mowbray: (in "tree memory")?
Riddle Sideways: sorry Alf, I was summerizing
Riddle Sideways: yes, the clock ticks and tocks
Riddle Sideways: on each tick... a state appears
Riddle Sideways: I appreciate that
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Riddle Sideways: the presence I meant
Riddle Sideways: by time, as time, with time
Bruce Mowbray: So, you appreciate the presence of the appearance of state
Riddle Sideways: sheer state
Bruce Mowbray: ok. . . sheer state.
Riddle Sideways: we were in a state
Riddle Sideways: then tick... another state
Riddle Sideways: (like NY) next week
Alfred Kelberry: *blink* - another state :)
                  --BELL--
Riddle Sideways: the great computer CPU that runs our reality is in fine state this morning
Alfred Kelberry: *needs more tea*
Riddle Sideways has had enough coffee

Riddle Sideways: the whole miricle-ish kinda thing of this pixel collection I am staring at
Riddle Sideways: the state, where Blub just has a bubble coming out
Riddle Sideways: the anticipation of the white pixel state advancing in an upward motion
Riddle Sideways: an effect
Riddle Sideways: many states next to each other
Bruce Mowbray: Blub has stopped swimming (from one state to the next) so that Riddle can observe the pixel-bubble better.
Riddle Sideways: ty
Bruce Mowbray: Blub says, YW.

Riddle Sideways: but, immediatelely I wonder about those 'between' states
Bruce Mowbray: another Zeno paradox, Riddle?
Riddle Sideways: should be enough
Riddle Sideways: for the states to exist
Riddle Sideways: to appear
Riddle Sideways: (and it is thank you very much)
Riddle Sideways: then why would I need to question the tween
Riddle Sideways: why be troubled over it
Bruce Mowbray: mmmmm. . . perhaps it is troubling to realize that the states are actually "frames" that you have projected upon the world.
Riddle Sideways: yes, and that should be enough
Bruce Mowbray: why not also project "frames" between the states?
Bruce Mowbray: infinite numbers of frames -- between, all the way up, and all the way down.
Riddle Sideways: you are right,
Riddle Sideways: no need to trouble over the not-frames
Riddle Sideways: any empty is not worth thinking about
Bruce Mowbray: frames within frames. . . all the way in. . .
Riddle Sideways: just that silly dualistic nature thing again
Bruce Mowbray: like Russian dolls - inside each other -- all the way in.
     Alfred Kelberry: *back*
     Riddle Sideways: wb
     Alfred Kelberry: thanks :)
     Alfred Kelberry: *sips a cup of sencha*
Bruce Mowbray: Do fractals disprove "frames inside frames" or prove that?
     Bruce Mowbray: wb, Al.
Riddle Sideways: me thinks they prove it
Bruce Mowbray: then. . . . following that idea. . .
Bruce Mowbray: is Time not a fractal?
Riddle Sideways: more fractals all the way [pick direction]
Bruce Mowbray: . . . Yes! - - - so no "empty" frames...
Bruce Mowbray: no "empty" states....
Riddle Sideways: if you wish to lump it into those dimensional categorys
Bruce Mowbray: only the illusion of such.
Riddle Sideways: good for discussion
Bruce Mowbray: what about the "states" of the CPU?
Riddle Sideways: the single frame is the smallest unit you can observe
                --BELL--  (past the usual limit)
Bruce Mowbray: what comes between the states?
Alfred Kelberry: after one hour we came back to riddle's original question :)
Bruce Mowbray: which was?
Riddle Sideways: ah, that is how it goes (most times)
Alfred Kelberry: bruce, what you just asked
Bruce Mowbray: What (if anything) comes between the states?
Riddle Sideways: [07:26] Riddle Sideways: have you thought about what goes on between clock cycles
Bruce Mowbray: ok. Thank you.
Alfred Kelberry: um, half an hour :)
Alfred Kelberry: and zillions of cycles :)

Riddle Sideways: maybe.... the primorial goo is getting the next appearance(s) ready for us
Bruce Mowbray: I entered two minutes after that question was first posed.
Riddle Sideways: that story of the tortouise and hare
Bruce Mowbray: Are either of you familiar with the Buddhist concept of "pushing everything into one"?
Riddle Sideways: the hare goes twice as fast is turtle
Bruce Mowbray: It is one of the 7 points of mind training.
Riddle Sideways: but will never catch up
Bruce Mowbray: For me -- I have been exploring the experience of "pushing everything into" Time.
Bruce Mowbray: Letting everything BE Time.
Alfred Kelberry: riddle, nope
Bruce Mowbray: It's rather extraordinary what happens to experience (sheer appearance) when I do that.
Riddle Sideways: moore's law keeps getting the clocks faster, but there are always tweens (or the thought there are)
      Alfred Kelberry: corvu :)
Riddle Sideways: and you are right bruce, is good to just push the frames together
Riddle Sideways: to cut them into One
Bruce Mowbray: experimentally, yes.
     Riddle Sideways: A rez cloud named Corvi
     Bruce Mowbray: A plentitudinously framed good day to you, Corvi.
     Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles and gropes about blindly
Riddle Sideways: see Alf, this session really gets going after the hour
     Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hey ya'll! *waves at everyone**
     Bruce Mowbray waves back at Corvi.
     Corvuscorva Nightfire: nice look, Riddle
     Riddle Sideways: nice look yourself
  Riddle Sideways: not seen you in many cycles
 Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
                 My bee av can wave/flap wings speed 1-3 which sounds like buzz (sound waves)
Bruce Mowbray wonders if the buzzing of a bee might be considered a sort of clock.
Bruce Mowbray: since sounds move in waves...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I bet they have a rythm, too.
Bruce Mowbray: and there is a particular frequency to the waves generated by a bee's wings.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Bruce Mowbray: so, a bee is a sort of clock. . . (or not)?
Riddle Sideways: yes, bee was 'waving'
Riddle Sideways: flapping out cycles

Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh, Alfred, that is awesome.
Corvuscorva Nightfire looks Alfred up and down.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: is that a scarf?
Bruce Mowbray encourages Corvi not to miss any of the infinite frames as he looks Alfred up and doen -- in and out - - etc.
Riddle Sideways: looks like a microfliche scarf
Alfred Kelberry: um, sorry, i was afk
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: an alfred from every angle, Bruce?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, it is, corvu. if you look closer you can see the pattern :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: like the elephant, tail and trunk!
Bruce Mowbray: Well, we were discussing the "states" of a CPU as a measurement of time. . .
Corvuscorva Nightfire checks out the frames on the microfish
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles at her misspelling

Bruce Mowbray: and I have a UPS truck coming into my drivewasy -AFK
Alfred Kelberry: oops truck
Riddle Sideways: ooooooo the nice UPS truck
Corvuscorva Nightfire: is not mircrofiche...it's yarn, I think!
Riddle Sideways: is usually like a holiday
                  --BELL--
Riddle Sideways: the nice truck brings presents
Alfred Kelberry: corvu :)
Bruce Mowbray: [I'm back.]
Alfred Kelberry: what's in the box, bruce? :)
Riddle Sideways: what did ya get?
Riddle Sideways: :)
Riddle Sideways: more frames
Riddle Sideways: maybe another box inside the box
Alfred Kelberry: what frames are you talking about anyway?
Alfred Kelberry: riddle :)
Alfred Kelberry: it would be neat
Riddle Sideways: sorry, all the frames/states we chatted while you were off getting tea
Riddle Sideways: the "frames of our life"

Bruce Mowbray: The box has something I will need when I go to NYC.
Riddle Sideways: bruce, contends there are only frames
Alfred Kelberry: it's a good thing i take pictures to keep some of the frames :)
Riddle Sideways: all the way [insert any direction]
Bruce Mowbray: yes. . . I also take lots of photos -- to "frame" my experiences in packages (boxes) called "memories."
Alfred Kelberry: bruce... gps? :)
Bruce Mowbray: Nope -- UPS.
Riddle Sideways: bruce, camera?
Bruce Mowbray: Olympus.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bruce Mowbray: It's my magic framing device.
Riddle Sideways: ahhhhhhh
Alfred Kelberry: i'm picky about frames
Bruce Mowbray: creates lots and lots of illusions --
Bruce Mowbray: Me too, Al -- VERY PICKY, indeed, am I about frames.
Bruce Mowbray: so easy to get "boxed in" by frames, right?
Riddle Sideways: unless you don't watch the edges
Riddle Sideways: cut them into a movie
Riddle Sideways: one movie
Bruce Mowbray: mmmm. . . I like that - not watching the edges.

Alfred Kelberry: i like henri bresson concept of a "decisive moment", which lets you know this is the frame you're about to keep
Bruce Mowbray: a "moment of decision"?
Alfred Kelberry: no, no decision
Riddle Sideways: key frames. that the following ones can be built from
Alfred Kelberry: intuition
Bruce Mowbray: Like "primary frames"?
Alfred Kelberry: no idea what a primary frame is :)
Bruce Mowbray: out of which all other frames take their meaning. . .

We have been talking in 2 parallel realms; computer terminalogy and reality (for lack of better term) terminalogy.  In graphical/movie compression techniques there are frequent key frame that are the complete scene/screen/frame.  The others are only the bit-blit difference areas.
Just like reality, life, time, sight/hearing/senses/input, etc. there are full moment and derived moment [...betweeners] where you do not really have the complete picture (do you? :)

 And then on the larger/longer/grander time scale there are the "Decisive Moment"(s) from which historic event stem.  Life can not be the same after one of those.

Alfred Kelberry: ah! yes, it fits very well

Bruce Mowbray: so, a "decisive moment" is derived intuitively but all other frames are relative to that primary one?
Riddle Sideways: key frame becomes the constant which others only have the apply differences
Bruce Mowbray: ok.
Alfred Kelberry: you somehow sense it's the right one and click - it's taken

Gentle reader, please stop here (for a moment)
Think aloud of those Decisive Moments you have witnessed.
...

almost all that came quickly to mind were sad/tragic.
that is sad.
cry.
Now, balance that with the Decisive Moment of hearing another cry.  The first cry of your baby.

Bruce Mowbray: Curious to think that (regarding time-pieces, clocks of all sorts including the computer's clock) that all clocks refer to OTHER clocks...
Riddle Sideways: hmmmmm, miss-taken sometimes?
Bruce Mowbray: so where is the "primary clock"?
Alfred Kelberry: i don't think there is one
Riddle Sideways: the clock that can not be seen
Riddle Sideways: this is not the clock you are looking for
Bruce Mowbray: "The clock that ticks is not the true clock."
Riddle Sideways: you must look inside for that answer
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what if it's all relative?
Bruce Mowbray: time is subjective, then?
Alfred Kelberry: corvu, it is
Riddle Sideways: yes, all related
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I mean..the primary clock is really just a point of view
Bruce Mowbray: @Corvi -- good point.
Alfred Kelberry: that's why there's no primary clock
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Riddle Sideways: exactly
Riddle Sideways: maybe, alf
Riddle Sideways: we can not know
Bruce Mowbray: Well, that certainly frees up a lot of time, for me!
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: on to the next problem!
Riddle Sideways: yes, that relived a lot
              --BELL--
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins
Alfred Kelberry: i like these breaks
Riddle Sideways: so refreshing
Riddle Sideways: a slow down in frame intake

Alfred Kelberry: i'd put them in all meetings :)
Riddle Sideways: good idea

Riddle Sideways notes that all the tensions of previous cycles are pretty much gone
      Riddle Sideways: probably is needing to go get into some other frame
      Bruce Mowbray: me too, Riddle.
     Riddle Sideways: what av should I wear to my next (RL) meeting
     Bruce Mowbray: Thanks to you all.
     Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye for now Bruce, Riddle
     Riddle Sideways: thanks ya'll
     Bruce Mowbray: May all be happy in their relative frames today.
     Corvuscorva Nightfire: heheh

Some time later, Alfred/Boxy wakes up, but I did not really leave

            --BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: session is over?
Alfred Kelberry: sorry, i keep falling off the frame :)
            --BELL--
Riddle Sideways: oh, I clicked and did not exit... for me session is over. you can continue
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: see you
Riddle Sideways: bye