2010.09.21 19:00 - Directed Sallies at Plastic Reality

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.


    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: hiya eos :)
    Paradise Tennant: how are you
    Eos Amaterasu: Pretty well, & yourself?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles very well
    Paradise Tennant: a little sleepy :)
    Eos Amaterasu: hmmm.....
    Paradise Tennant: hello steve :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Paradise Tennant: how are you tonight ..

    stevenaia Michinaga: :), good had a nice time at the Lucid Dream theme session this afternoon, taking advantage of the calm before I get busy :)
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Paradise Tennant: smiles sorry to have missed it ..what was it like
    stevenaia Michinaga: Interesting, I didn't realize how new the research on that topic was, scientific research
    stevenaia Michinaga: they couldn't prove such a thing exists scientifically until the invented the the machine to measure brain wave, but like everything, I'm sure people knew such things existed, just couldn't "prove" it
    Paradise Tennant: so it is dreaming ..while you know you are dreaming
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, and can interact with your dream, direct it
    Eos Amaterasu: Then you can do things impossible in real life
    Eos Amaterasu: like flying
    stevenaia Michinaga: the real life of dreams
    Eos Amaterasu: Do you lucid dream, stevenaia? and Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: when I was in venice last week .. we spent an afternoon walking through the ghetto there ..taking pictures ..my friend had a commission ..to do some photos , when I came back I had a nightmare .. was a young boy in hiding .. being rounded up .. to go on the trains to the camps .. felt so afraid .. woke up intensely unhappy .. not sure that was lucid but it was vivid ....
    stevenaia Michinaga: reminds me of once when I was hypnotized.... I knew I was hipnotized, but just went with it... after I was told that that was what being hypnotized was
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: sounds more like a nightmere
    Paradise Tennant: kind of real life like .. we know it is a dream .. but we go with it :)
    Eos Amaterasu: "though he thinks he's in a play, he is anyway"
    stevenaia Michinaga: when I used to write in my dream journal, I would wake myself up right after the dream in the midddle of the night and just write pages and pages of what I remembered, somewhat post-lucid
    Paradise Tennant: smiles .. that is such a lovely gift
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure I have memories of re-directing a dream




    stevenaia Michinaga: when I returned to the PaB session since this session was at the Kira Cafe and they directed me there, they said that their session was about dreams after I left, I guess that lucid awakening, directed reality :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was looking for the log but it is not up yet, and I don't think the Dream theses are logged
    stevenaia Michinaga: Dream Themes
    Eos Amaterasu: Do you mean Maxine's dream circle?
    Eos Amaterasu: or workshop
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: workshop, yes
    Eos Amaterasu: did you mean, when you said "re-directing", that you didn't alter or play with the dream itself?
    stevenaia Michinaga: looks for that line....
    Eos Amaterasu wonders, if you're in the dream, who's dreaming the dream?
    Paradise Tennant: what a good question
    stevenaia Michinaga: If I re-directed my own dreams, I did not remember, but I did wake myself up, interacted with my dream state
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: usually they evaporate so quickly .. it is a gift to be able to do that
    stevenaia Michinaga: so I can write them down when I pereceived them as over
    Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia, you mean "woke up in your bed", or "woke up inside the dream"?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I choose a very specail time in my life to do this, moved away to a new location, a new job, a new lifestyle, chose then to record my dreams
    stevenaia Michinaga: woke up in bed, turned on light and wrote, bearly ledgeable for pages
    stevenaia Michinaga: then went back to sleep
    Paradise Tennant: in the morning did the entries make sense
    Eos Amaterasu: very interesting: doesn't sound like exactly lucid dreaming, but awakely interacting with your still living dream state?
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, yes, they still do, I can still remember the some of the dreams 30 years later
    stevenaia Michinaga: by reading them
    stevenaia Michinaga: but I can't remember some of the people I dreamed about
    Paradise Tennant: do you see a difference between your dreams of 30 years ago and those of now
    stevenaia Michinaga: the dreams still seem out of time
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello hana
    Paradise Tennant: out of time
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Hana, long time no see!
    Paradise Tennant: interesting phrase
    stevenaia Michinaga: not of the 70's
    Paradise Tennant: hiya hana ..nice to see you again
    Hana Furlough: Hi Eos, yes!
    Hana Furlough: Hi Paradise and Stevenaia

    Paradise Tennant: nods so not subjective to time :) free of time :)
    Eos Amaterasu: or in their own special context of time?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Eos Amaterasu: HI Ewan
    BORISDURANGO String: hi
    stevenaia Michinaga: even the one's I have now, may relate to people I know now, but there is no reference to when the dreams are taking place, isn't that unusual
    Hana Furlough: Hello Ewan
    Paradise Tennant: hiya ewan .. boris
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    BORISDURANGO String: hi
    Paradise Tennant: it is
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Borisdurango
    Hana Furlough: Hello Boris
    BORISDURANGO String: what you're doing?
    BORISDURANGO String: I´m new
    Eos Amaterasu: I take it you haven't been here before, to Play as Beinbg?
    Ewan Bonham: Hi folks..
    stevenaia Michinaga: welcome
    Eos Amaterasu: I'll give you a notecard

    Paradise Tennant: I wonder why ..
    stevenaia Michinaga: Ewan, you will rezz in the fountain
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Paradise Tennant: they do not have a time marker
    Eos Amaterasu: our chat here is logged (to http://wiki.playasbeing.org) - is that okay?
    Ewan Bonham: Sorry for the bouncing...


    stevenaia Michinaga: no they don't, recently I did have a dream that I felt was "current time" but it had a 1920's theme or movie like genra(sp) of the 20, B&W stake shadows, was an urban theme travel dream with a friend
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm
    stevenaia Michinaga: (from the 20's rather)
    stevenaia Michinaga: travel buddy movie, sort of
    Eos Amaterasu: shadows of Bogart-like figures in trenchoats smoking cigarettes?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles shows how subjective time is .. if you can ..visualize and experience ..moments without it
    stevenaia Michinaga: hehe, nods, I think the cars were old too, a give away
    Eos Amaterasu: a give away to....?
    stevenaia Michinaga: the era of the time
    Paradise Tennant: smiles .. quietly says good nite and thank you .. still on europe time .. very sleepy :) namaste all :)
    Eos Amaterasu: /||\
    Hana Furlough: good night, paradise
    stevenaia Michinaga: night paradise, good dreams
    Ewan Bonham: Night Paradise..
    Eos Amaterasu: remember, it's just a dream
    Hana Furlough: lol
    Archmage Atlantis: Ello, govn'rs
    Hana Furlough: Hi Arch
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Arch

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Arch
    Eos Amaterasu: a lot of the ongoing thought streamlets that flow through have a dream-like quality
    Hana Furlough: but sometimes it is hard to see that
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, they pull us by the nose
    Archmage Atlantis: The topic, or the thought flow.......oh got it from that one comment Eis
    Ewan Bonham: Dreamlike s is imaginary and symbolic..
    Hana Furlough: exactly
    Archmage Atlantis: &*Eos
    Hana Furlough: and once they are pulling us by the nose, then we're led away
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, an interesting comment at the workshop is... is what you remember about your dreams accurately depicting the dream? (how do you figure that one out?)
    Ewan Bonham: A dream upon a dream
    Hana Furlough: smiles
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe you trust "the dreamer" to dream the dream, and then your waking self minder to recall appropriate parts of the dream
    Eos Amaterasu: which is just as telling
    Eos Amaterasu: perhaps the recalls are dreamlets
    Hana Furlough: or maybe it's okay to use imagination when you are recalling dreams
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes
    Eos Amaterasu: and some people use active imagination in a very dream like manner
    Hana Furlough: eos, can you say more about that?
    stevenaia Michinaga: creativity is very dreamlike
    Eos Amaterasu: Well, we've talked about making little excursions into the imagination, as one way of exploring being, actually
    Eos Amaterasu: for some people this is more natural than the more classic "meditation"-like practices
    Hana Furlough: yes certainly
    Archmage Atlantis: The workshop I attended indicated that for dreams, lucid, waking, or in deep sleep....it is the subconcious, older part of the mind, that is unable to use words, and must use images, calling out to get one's attention to something it sees as important
    Eos Amaterasu: and dreaming seems part of our world-creativity process, Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, trying to rember if there re ever conversatins in my dreams... I think you are right Arch,
    Eos Amaterasu: creativity is like active dreamtime
    Eos Amaterasu: I've had conversations in dreams
    Hana Furlough: just to play devil's advocate, isn't that the same as running from what's right here?
    Eos Amaterasu: good question
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, the workshop did say that the speaking parts of the brain are awakened at times
    Eos Amaterasu: it does seem like going in the opposite direction from the usual tack taken by meditation


    Archmage Atlantis: Just that the origin of the dream is from the older part usually
    Eos Amaterasu: which basically says "stop dreaming and come back to here/now"
    stevenaia Michinaga: interesting eos, I see creativity as meditation, but not meditation as creative , probably due to the fact that I never formerly meditated except here
    Hana Furlough: yes that to imagine anything else would be resistance
    Eos Amaterasu: except that here/now is not a solid thing to come back to either
    Eos Amaterasu: but is also created, in much the same way dreams are created
    Eos Amaterasu: in fact in dreams & daydreams we see our worlds being created
    Hana Furlough: interesting...
    Eos Amaterasu: by more than just the superficial aspects of ourselves (ie with deeper, less literate levels)
    Hana Furlough: karma as well?
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, karma being pushed further
    Eos Amaterasu: or re-iterated
    Hana Furlough: so you could stop it
    Hana Furlough: if you realized it wasn't solid?
    Eos Amaterasu: I don't think you can stop it coming to you, so to speak
    Eos Amaterasu: but you can stop perpetuating it further
    Hana Furlough: and in that sense, change it?
    Eos Amaterasu: yes
    Hana Furlough: gotcha
    Eos Amaterasu: boycott it, and start fresh
    Hana Furlough: lol
    Hana Furlough: but what happens if we get rid of time
    Hana Furlough: in that process?
    Eos Amaterasu: how do you get rid of time in that process?
    Hana Furlough: well what if there was nothing separating past, present and future
    Hana Furlough: ?
    Archmage Atlantis: The giver of this workshop talked about "directed dreaming".....setting a concious purpose before the dream state in order to achieve a personal change.
    Archmage Atlantis: That is something that I want to explore
    Eos Amaterasu: I think that nothing separating past present future allows them all
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, Arch, reality, including dream reality, seems responsive to us :-)
    Hana Furlough: plastic?
    Ewan Bonham: Including dream reality?
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, I think dream reality can very definitely be responsive. Lucid dreamers clearly report this.
    Eos Amaterasu: every perception has a kind of flexible quality, tunable in various dimensions
    Ewan Bonham: hhhmmmm...is that not too different types of dreaming?
    Eos Amaterasu: dreaming vs lucid dreaming?
    Ewan Bonham: Yes..
    Eos Amaterasu: awake inside the dream would be lucid dreaming, I think
    Eos Amaterasu: so that is different from non-lucid dreaming
    Archmage Atlantis: I know my cats dream......when they sleep, they move their paws and make movements without waking up, unless I disturb them by shaking them lightly
    Eos Amaterasu: ditto for dogs
    Eos Amaterasu: I think the little exercises we do, like APA, are directed sallies at a plastic reality
    Lila Darkmatter: oh wow, what a sentence to walk into
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol, hello Lila
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)! dark matter
    Hana Furlough: Hi Lila
    Ewan Bonham: Hello lila
    Lila Darkmatter: Nice to see everyone :)

    Archmage Atlantis: Makes me think of the book "Do Androids Dream of of Eletronic Sheep"
    Hana Furlough: do you ever find that your perceived degree of the plasticity of reality changes?
    Hana Furlough: wow that sounded weird
    Hana Furlough: sorry
    Lila Darkmatter: sounded great
    Eos Amaterasu: hah ha
    Eos Amaterasu: does yours, Hana?


    Hana Furlough: that is to say, sometimes it feels really plastic and other times really solid
    Hana Furlough: immovable
    Archmage Atlantis: Since I am looking at a computer screen with images of avatars in a circle, and yet I experience this as a real place, time and event......I would say my reality, imo, is pretty plastic
    Eos Amaterasu: Sometimes more stuck, sometimes more open
    Hana Furlough: yeah like that
    Lila Darkmatter: sometimes from second to second
    Eos Amaterasu: or you could say there is brain neuroplasticity
    Eos Amaterasu: so we take the 2D screen avatar body as our own
    Eos Amaterasu: as well as our 3D RL body
    Eos Amaterasu sees Darkmatter flickering
    Lila Darkmatter: :::twinkles::::
    Eos Amaterasu: or playing (Lila)
    Archmage Atlantis: Agree, Eos.....but I can stand up in RL, go into the kitchen.....and have the sensation of leaving "here" and returning "here"
    Eos Amaterasu: I think lately I've been playing more with the potential for reality to respond
    Lila Darkmatter: there is a conversation always going on with the space of things...
    Lila Darkmatter: Ah, listening...
    Eos Amaterasu: pls continue the conversation LD :-)
    Lila Darkmatter: seems similar to your thought, so I'm intrigued there...
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, something like that in a space of listening, and being open, you can put out, and something comes back
    Eos Amaterasu: and that can be the next step for you
    Archmage Atlantis: It is not that different in some ways than being absorbed in a story in a book
    Eos Amaterasu: the universe is a kind of partner
    Lila Darkmatter: like a messenger pigeon? :)
    Lila Darkmatter giggles
    Eos Amaterasu: although also with hooks and knives :-)
    Lila Darkmatter: oh my
    Eos Amaterasu: the response may not be what you want
    Eos Amaterasu: but in a sense there's faith that it's what you need
    Eos Amaterasu: or maybe more than faith, your own response
    Lila Darkmatter: hmm
    stevenaia Michinaga: I night all :)
    Lila Darkmatter: Night Steve :)
    Eos Amaterasu: 'night Stevenaia, thanks for the dream stories
    Hana Furlough: good night stevena

    Archmage Atlantis: That may be a more accurate use of the word faith than how it is usually used
    Hana Furlough: yeah it's interesting
    Archmage Atlantis: Night (late) Steve
    Lila Darkmatter: a friend gave me a nice story tonight...
    Lila Darkmatter: short...
    Lila Darkmatter: the teacher asks his students how to hold the ocean in a sieve...
    Lila Darkmatter: after much back and forth among them,
    Lila Darkmatter: he picks it up and tosses it into the ocean.
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Hana Furlough: that's so nice : )
    Archmage Atlantis: Sounds quite like a buddhist teaching, Lila......nice
    Lila Darkmatter: like going to bed for the night... in a way... which I should do
    Lila Darkmatter: Glad you like it Arch, yes it prob is :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it is nearing the witching hour for me also
    Lila Darkmatter: Nice to check in... usually try to make this session. Night
    Archmage Atlantis: I am glad I stopped by
    Eos Amaterasu: 'night, Lila
    Archmage Atlantis: Nite all
    Eos Amaterasu: time to jump in the ocean
    Hana Furlough: i should get going too
    Hana Furlough: good night all~
    Eos Amaterasu: past witching hour here
    Eos Amaterasu: good night, hana

    Eos Amaterasu: good night, Ewan.

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