Page last modified 18:28, 6 Oct 2010 by wol

*Wol Euler was guardian and very tardy poster for this session.*

Wol Euler: hello bert

Bertram Jacobus: heyy wol ! :-))

Wol Euler: good morning! I hope you slept well?

Bertram Jacobus: is this one of your many weekly slots you cover ? ;-)

Wol Euler: heheh, this is my only "real" slot

Bertram Jacobus: ty, yes, i always sleep well - a gift. and how about you ? :-)

Wol Euler: not enough, but well

Wol Euler: I could have used anohter hour or so

Wol Euler: but I had to be here

Wol Euler: hello satia

Satia Ruby: HEL-LOOOOO =)

Bertram Jacobus: heyy satia ! welcome and take a seat plz :-)

Wol Euler: have you been here before?

Satia Ruby: give me a minute to rezz *GIGGLES* :)wol 06 October 2010

Bertram Jacobus: she is a friend of mine wol ...

Wol Euler: ok, ty

Bertram Jacobus: ty2 ! :-)

Satia Ruby: :D

Wol Euler: so, what shall we talk about today?

Bertram Jacobus: we record the talks here and put it on a wiki satia and have to ask all here for permission to do so. that is part of our so to call "statues" i would say - correctly wol ? ;-)

Wol Euler: *statutes*

Satia Ruby: hmm

Wol Euler: and yes, we do record and we do ask your permission to publish

Bertram Jacobus: and for sure, the wiki is open to be reab by all and such. a kind of researching project satia - so : is this ok for you, plz ? ;-)

Wol Euler: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/

Satia Ruby: haha yes okay..

Bertram Jacobus: hehe. great :-)

Bertram Jacobus: and ty ! :-)

Bertram Jacobus: and wol : i mostly don't plan what about i talk ... hm - but ... may be you have a suggestion ? :-)

Wol Euler: that notecard will tell you the basics about who we are (the group taht meets here)

Wol Euler: I suppose that we (Bert and I) could talk about the RL retreat that is coming up. We have some cooordination to arrange

Bertram Jacobus: i just had started to read a bit on our wiki site wol - may be uncredible, but : most i never read - bisher - how to say that in english plz ? :-)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: previously

Wol Euler: or "so far"

Wol Euler: hello Darren

Bertram Jacobus: tyvm wol ! :-)

Bertram Jacobus: and hello darren :-)

Darren Islar: hi Wol, Bert Satia :)

Satia Ruby: hi darren :)

Satia Ruby: i'm sorry but i got a tp i need to go :( was nice to met you guys :)

Darren Islar smiles at Wol's tag

Wol Euler: ok, enjoy the day Satia

Bertram Jacobus: cu satia and we stay in contact ok ? ;-)

Wol Euler: :)

Satia Ruby: thanks you too :)

Darren Islar: bye Satia

Bertram Jacobus: so easy here with IMs ... :o)

Satia Ruby: sure :)

Bertram Jacobus: it's nearly like telepathy lol ... :-)

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: so much of what our ancestors wished for, is real in our world now

Bertram Jacobus: really convenient ! ... :-)

Wol Euler: things that would have seemed miraculous to them

Wol Euler: but which we use without noticing.

Wol Euler: I think what would surprise them most, actually, is not any particular thing in itself

Wol Euler: but the fact of ABUNDANCE

Wol Euler: that we have more than enough of everything

Darren Islar: and still don't know how to deal with it

Wol Euler: (for certain values of "we", obviuosly)

Wol Euler: yes, darren. It's a problem that we don't know how to address.

Darren Islar: every time we create more, our mind need to do more, cope with more information and organization

Darren Islar: abundance seems to make us restless

Wol Euler nods.

Bertram Jacobus: i find this use of "we" often very brave - and don't feel included to that often, at the same time ...

Wol Euler: well, yes. we the society around us.

Wol Euler: but also myself. I have more shirts than I can wear in a month. Why?

Darren Islar: we are no separations of that

Darren Islar: it is hard to distract ourselves from it

Wol Euler: why do I have four pair of shoes but only one pair of feet?

Darren Islar: only four?

Bertram Jacobus: but i don't feel also so separeted from it also , often not in such a generalizing way as those "wes" sugest it (?)

Darren Islar: ;)

Wol Euler: :)

Wol Euler: I think the generalization is valid, generally speaking :)

Wol Euler: look at any supermarket

Darren Islar: I mean we are 'social animals', we take part in it

Bertram Jacobus: because "variatio delectat" as the romans said : variations can bring joy

Wol Euler: there is so much stuff there that it won't all be sold, cannot all be sold. Some will be thrown away

Wol Euler: and some that *does* get sold, will be taken home and put away and forgotten, and then it too will be thrown away

Darren Islar suddenly thinks the ceiling is very interesting :))

Wol Euler: oh dear :)

Wol Euler: I'll shut up, then.

Wol Euler: but I do it too.

Darren Islar: oh no, I meant that I do throw things away too

Darren Islar: don't feel good about it, but do it anyway

Wol Euler nods. I know.

Wol Euler: I buy healthy food in the hope that it will magically give me the time to cook it properly

Bertram Jacobus: and at the same time there is poverty ...

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Darren Islar: :))

Darren Islar: yes

Bertram Jacobus: the allocation is not good

Wol Euler: agreed

Bertram Jacobus: and in general, i think, we need a change of values

Wol Euler: agreed

Bertram Jacobus: oh - not we lol

Wol Euler: sure, the same "we" that I started with

Darren Islar: that includes me

Bertram Jacobus: but i would like it when we would experience it

Bertram Jacobus: and i also hope it i can say here ...

Bertram Jacobus: the next age should be spiritual is my perspective ...

Bertram Jacobus: that could solve our current problems

--BELL--

Darren Islar: maybe

Darren Islar: but more spiritual or not, they don't solve by themselves in some kind of miraculous way

Wol Euler: sure, it will take work, and a change in our lifestyle, away from abundance and immediate gratification

Darren Islar: and changes always come with great distress first

Wol Euler: western capitalist society lives like little children in their parents' house: there is a refigerator that is always full of food, and the parents gratify *at once* our ever desire

Wol Euler: we need to grow up.

Wol Euler: (that "we" again)

Darren Islar: :)

Darren Islar: but you're right

Darren Islar: human kind needs to grow up

Darren Islar: taking up the responsibilities that comes with being able to think and develop culture

Wol Euler nods.

Darren Islar: hmmmmm :)

Darren Islar: how boring a discussion can be if we agree all the time :))

Wol Euler laughs.

Bertram Jacobus: i don't find that at all !

Wol Euler: but what a fine feeling of being right!

Darren Islar: it is an important subject

Darren Islar: yes Wol :))

Wol Euler: also: of not being alone with this point of view.

Darren Islar: but maybe it woud be interesting to get to a new stage

Bertram Jacobus: and very constructive

Bertram Jacobus: one can get new ideas, develop things together ...

Darren Islar: like forming a community, very loose, but with some rules about how to deal with certain things

Darren Islar: something that can effect our lives effectively

Darren Islar: but in a smooth, comfortable way

Bertram Jacobus: i think, from the ethics of being all those ways of acting and such occure by themselves

Wol Euler: so bert teh question is then "how to get more people to follow the ethics of being"?

Wol Euler: the Dalai Lama is trying, we too in our little ways

Wol Euler: "be the change that you want to see" as Gandhi said

Bertram Jacobus: to me, it's by living it and work on myself

Darren Islar: yes, but still throwing away food, because there is no 'parent' to tell me, I need to do better

Wol Euler smiles.

Bertram Jacobus: hehe - seems to fit to the gandhi sentence :-)

Wol Euler: both do.

Wol Euler: what we need to change, at the core of it all, is our lifestyle

Wol Euler: and our assumption that it is a style that can continue forever

Bertram Jacobus: but you seem to know it darren - and that is what i mean with the work on oneself

Wol Euler: both of these are wrong.

Bertram Jacobus: i for example have many bad habits and to change them may need my whole lifetime

Darren Islar: yes, but the next stage is to carry it out, and 'we' (including myself) often take the easy way

Wol Euler: sure! me too!

Darren Islar: if nobody is 'watching'

Bertram Jacobus: may be and lets hope that at least i can change a bit and make a bit better in my behaviour ...

Wol Euler: I throw away food (and electricity, and fresh clean water) all the time.

Wol Euler: It's wrong, it should change. And in the long run it will change, whether or not we want.

Bertram Jacobus: but i think, it was wise, when the buddha teached the middle way - it's relativity

Darren Islar: Thich Nat Hahn made one five vows, that can keep you from doing those things

Wol Euler: mmm?

Darren Islar: but need to look up the vows :))

Bertram Jacobus: i like some of thich nhat hanh very much ...

Darren Islar: something like that can give you more awareness, more structure, like a community can

Wol Euler nods.

Darren Islar: I will look it up, but I'm afraid I need to go now

Darren Islar: I have an rl-meeting coming up

Wol Euler: bye darren, enjoy the day.

Wol Euler: use your food wisely :)

Darren Islar: thanks, same to you both :)

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: okay darren - then have a nice day plz ! :-)

Bertram Jacobus: and i think about the different ways of the buddha and jesus for example wol : as it is told, the buddha only teacged when he was asked, mostly at least - and jesus teached so to say from his inspiration, everywhere and always - seemed that he even said : let's fish humans and such ... hm :-)

Bertram Jacobus: two very different ways of spreading, but both fine i think

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: there is a wonderful passage in one of Terry Pratchett's discworld novels, "Small gods" which relates to that

Bertram Jacobus: what does that passage say ?

Wol Euler: I can't remember it word for word, but the essence is this:

Wol Euler: as the small god of the title is beginning-to-be, he happens upon a shepherd who becomes his first prophet

Wol Euler: and Pratchett says that this set the whole style of his religion, which would have been different had he met a goatherd instead

Wol Euler: "because sheep are stupid and must be driven, whereas goats are intelligent and must be lead."

Bertram Jacobus: hello nymf ! :-)

Wol Euler: I found that fascinating.

Wol Euler: hello nymf! long time no see

Nymf Hathaway: Hi Wol & Bertram, long time

Wol Euler: Jesus is a shepherd, Buddha is a goatherd

Bertram Jacobus: whaow - cool way to look at it ! :-)

Wol Euler nods and smiles.

Bertram Jacobus: but may be the christians wouldn't like that so much - i only notice now - stupid bert ! :o)

Wol Euler: that's the joy of reading Pratchett, he is full of such fascinating tiny insights.

Wol Euler: well, it's not a secret :)

Wol Euler: the bible is full of sheep. Goats occur very rarely.

Bertram Jacobus: tz. lol :o)

Bertram Jacobus: it's such a subtle task sometimes not to hurt people

Wol Euler: oh yes

Nymf Hathaway: agrees

Wol Euler: wb selene

Bertram Jacobus: heyyy selene ! good morning and welcome ! :-)

Nymf Hathaway: Hello Selene

Selene Northman: hi Bertram, likewise.. hope you are doing fine :)

Selene Northman: Hello Nymf :-)

Bertram Jacobus: ty. in the mornings mostly my worlds look still very fine - so yes, ty selene ... ;-)

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: my dears, I am afraid that RL is tugging at my elbow. I shall have to go to work.

Wol Euler: enjoy the day, be happy and productive

Wol Euler: and kind to yourselves

Nymf Hathaway: Wishing you a lovely day Wol, nice to see you again

Wol Euler: take care

Bertram Jacobus: ok dear wol - ty for all have a great dday plz ! :-)

Selene Northman: have a nice day wol :)

Wol Euler: I'll do my very best, Miss Sophie.

Bertram Jacobus: hehe

Wol Euler: you can explain that to them bert :)

Bertram Jacobus: tehy may know ... (?)

Selene Northman: chuckles

Selene Northman: yes

Nymf Hathaway: Not me Bertram, have been away too long

Bertram Jacobus: very famous at least in germany

Nymf Hathaway: oke

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: it's from a short funny so to say grotesqueness, which is showed in german television always on new yera's eve - called "dinner for one" - you don't know that nymf ? :-)

Nymf Hathaway: No sounds like fun

Nymf Hathaway: lives near Germany but seldom watches tv

Bertram Jacobus: yes it is. it's about an old lady who insits in celebrating every year a special day - don't know - is it new year's eve ? - but not importnat :

Bertram Jacobus: the "problem" is that she is very old already and all the guests are not living anymore - so her butler has to take over all their roles and also to take the drinks with all the food ... you may imagine how that then delevopes ... ;-)

Nymf Hathaway: hahhahah yes. great concept

Nymf Hathaway: how sweet

Bertram Jacobus: hehe. and the old ladie's name is miss sophie ... ;o)

Nymf Hathaway: will try to remember this around new years

Bertram Jacobus: yeah ! :o)

Bertram Jacobus: today i read again some lines of the pab site ... the very first ones - so nice ! ... ;-)

Bertram Jacobus: and like to study that ...

Nymf Hathaway: How long back was the first one?

Selene Northman: so you are really into pab :)

Bertram Jacobus: yes. i find it very helpful

Bertram Jacobus: the first sentence for example : "Play as Being is a group of people exploring reality by using our own life as a laboratory."

Bertram Jacobus: it's always possible to reserach such in very deep and wide ranges ...

Bertram Jacobus: there are many aspects i appreciate very much - the appreciation of diversity for example or the aspect of playing . also the thought of sharing and listening ...

Nymf Hathaway: thinks every discussion group explores from their own life but its a nice way discribing it

Bertram Jacobus: and that we can sit here, silently or saying something ... :-)

Nymf Hathaway: agrees

Selene Northman nods

Nymf Hathaway: although she never did understand what the 'playing' is all about

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: yes nymf - that both comes together i find : the pab ideas - which also may change and develop i think - and our experiences

Selene Northman: so how are you perceiving yourself?

Bertram Jacobus: to me it's a kind of view and behaviour : playing life, playing living. instead of taking all "too serious" - as i did before ...

Bertram Jacobus: and it often reminds me also - to play more and so to say "better" :-)

Selene Northman: playing is fun :)

Bertram Jacobus: yes. and i'm so thankful, that so many and especially fun do this work of the group and all the projects which are linked with it - it's nearly like a universe of very nice possibilities with a very good athmosphere with more content i ever could attend - so - simply a big gift ...

Bertram Jacobus: and i like to contribute a bit. as much as i can, feel very comfortable with the people here. and that's it. so far. lol :-)

Bertram Jacobus: not fun - some i wanted to write above ! tz :o)

Bertram Jacobus: sometimes the humane faultiness is really astonishing ! especially teh results of it

Nymf Hathaway: Must say she appreciates the people at Pab as well

Selene Northman: yes, I like the way we are discussing

Selene Northman: :)

Bertram Jacobus: it's already that kind of society which may be even needed for our future with all it's tasks ...

Nymf Hathaway: Its all very relaxing

Bertram Jacobus: i will for example attend the next retreat now in stuttgart ... also with that there is so much help ...

Selene Northman: so you'll be going to Stuttgart .. great :)

Bertram Jacobus: yes. i look forward to it. it's not all easy for me to do that - money and time ... but i think, it's worth doing it - what else would be better and really to be done, possible to me ? (some of my thoughts about it) ... ;-)

Selene Northman: I guess you will face a great experience in your life

Bertram Jacobus: i had it already once : was in malta also at the retreat in january and yes : it was a great meeting ! ... :-)

--BELL--

Selene Northman: ok folks, I have to leave now, please take care :-) bye bye

Nymf Hathaway: Enjoy your day Selene

Bertram Jacobus: have a great time selene ! +wave* ... :-)

Nymf Hathaway: will be leaving as well, rl calls

Bertram Jacobus: ok nymf - hope to see you again (?) :-)

Nymf Hathaway: Have a beautiful day Bertram, was nice seeing you again... yes probbly returns more often

Nymf Hathaway: probably

Bertram Jacobus: ty - all my best wishes to you !

Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye

Bertram Jacobus: byeee

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