2010.09.24 06:00 - Time Session Chapter 5 continued

    Table of contents
    1. 1.  


    The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

    Using chapters from the manuscript Exploring the Magic of Time: an Introduction to Play as Being while these chapters are being written by Pema Pera, we share and discuss our experiences in reading and working with the material presented in those chapters.  This is session 12, covering Chapter 5 and the reports.


    Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
    Pema Pera: hi Maxine!
    Maxine Walden: rezzing...
    Pema Pera: and hi Eliza!
    Pema Pera: and hi there Sharon!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Maxine, Sharon :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Maxine, Eliza, Pema and Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Maxine Walden: Hi, SophiaSharon, and Zen
    Pema Pera: hi Zen!
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes it is like a musicians play... each one adding one more name to the list of hellos... hahah
    Zen Arado: Hi Eliza, Pema, Maxine, Sharon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Vector, how nice to see that you can make it too -- and thanks for your contribution!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Vector
    Vector Marksman: HI
    Zen Arado: Hi Vector
    Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, or like the credits in a movie
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Vector, really enjoyed reading your report this morning!
    Maxine Walden: oh, hi, Vector, so good to see you
    Pema Pera: we are starting at the end -- obviously!
    Eliza Madrigal: pre-credits... like that
    Maxine Walden: ah, have not yet seen your report...will read it as we gather
    Vector Marksman: I wasn't sure I posted it correctly... but
    Zen Arado: wonders how Sharon changed her name around like that...
    Pema Pera: (micro-credits?)
    Eliza Madrigal: give everyone credit right away!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: changed me name Zen?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: my*
    Zen Arado: yes///it's at the top
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ?
    Pema Pera: !!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Darren
    Zen Arado: usually name is at the bottom and group at the top
    Pema Pera: hi Darren!
    Zen Arado: Hi Darren
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Darren :and Susan :)
    Darren Islar: hi everyone :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey Blue :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu*
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I can't say Zen, except I used this version of imprudence to explore a would called inworldz, and perhaps it messed something up
    Pema Pera: Hi Susan!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: world*
    Pema Pera: and hi Bleu!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hello to everyopne arriving
    SophiaSharon Larnia: everyone*
    Zen Arado: Hi Susan
    Susan Aloix: Hello pema :)
    Susan Aloix: Hey Zen :) hi sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Singh!
    Zen Arado: Hi Singh
    Susan Aloix: Hey Singh :)
    Darren Islar: hi singh
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Singh
    Pema Pera: shall we get started?
    Pema Pera: after all the pre-credits :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
    Pema Pera: would somebody like to volunteer to pick up the chat log?
    Susan Aloix: lol :)
    Singh Albatros: good evening /morning/whenever all
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Singh, Welcome. Have you been to PlayasBeing before?
    Zen Arado: I'll do it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you Bleu!
    Pema Pera: thanks a lot, Zen!
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll give you a note, converse in IM...
    Bleu Oleander: I just did
    Zen Arado: too late :)
    Singh Albatros: no first time'
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: I'll leave it up to you both to fight it out :)
    Zen Arado: won't fight you for it :)
    Pema Pera: o o
    Pema Pera: (^_^)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Pema Pera: I very much enjoyed reading the reports today . . . Bruce's transcending change, Eden's surging, Bleu's contemplation, Eliza's sawing off branches, Maxine's dreams, Vector's via negativa -- as well as Eden's woodblock print and Vector's art, such a rich harvest!
    Pema Pera: thank you all!
    Pema Pera: would anybody like to comment?
    Maxine Walden: seems each in his/her way is exploring according to his/her own unique awareness/appreciation/presence...
    Maxine Walden: and each week seems to express a richer, deeper, but also perhaps more essential (ie closer to some essence) or so it seems to my reading eye/mind
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eden
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden :))
    Susan Aloix: Hey eden
    Pema Pera: (hi Eden)
    Zen Arado: Hi Eden
    Bleu Oleander: hi Eden :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Fefonz
    Zen Arado: can't find the reports - could someone give me a link?
    Pema Pera: yes, I have the same impression, Maxine, perhaps we are homing in on time after all . . . :)
    Pema Pera: hi Fef!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fef :))
    Eden Haiku: Whispering hello, sorry to be late :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Fef
    Maxine Walden: hmm:)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Fef
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2010%2f%2f09%2f%2f24%3a_Reports
    Fefonz Quan: Hi all, dorry for lating
    Fefonz Quan: sorry*
    Zen Arado: ty Pema
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Susan Aloix: hi Fefonz

    Pema Pera: (did you visit a Pub, Fefonz?)
    Pema Pera: (sorry, very very long lag . . . )
    Fefonz Quan: ?
    Fefonz Quan: (do i smell of Whiskey?)
    Maxine Walden: :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Hana :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And hello to Hana as well :) Nice full session
    Hana Furlough: Hi everyone!
    Zen Arado: Hi Hana
    Pema Pera: (just your opening sentence :-)
    Maxine Walden: seemed a bit tipsy, perhaps, Fef, your first sentence
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Fefonz Quan: if you'll keep throwing at me words i don't understand, i won't understand :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza :) Let me post the link to reports one more time, for those who just arrived...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone, sry been late
    Fefonz Quan: (words/jokes)
    Eliza Madrigal: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2010%2f%2f09%2f%2f24%3a_Reports
    Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Yakuzza
    Bleu Oleander: hey Yaku
    Hana Furlough: Hi Yaku~
    Pema Pera: (sorry, I same to have more-than-a-minute lag here, and my avatar just keeps typing -- please ignore!)
    Susan Aloix: hey yaku
    Pema Pera: (so please continue to comment on the reports and/or the chapter -- I will respond whenever lag lets me . . . )
    Fefonz Quan: The presence of appearance as given by Time delay :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Hana Furlough: : )
    Eliza Madrigal: your report was wonderful too again, Pema. .. as close to *just* presence by the end of your (mini) exploration ...
    Vector Marksman: sorry I can't sit down
    Maxine Walden: thought your comment Pema in Chapt 5 on presence as being most basic
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Maxine Walden: was interesting
    Maxine Walden: :) Vector
    Eliza Madrigal: there you go, Vector :)
    Darren Islar: (pulled Vector on his cushion :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb S\ingh
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Singh* :)
    Singh Albatros: crashed
    Vector Marksman: I was thinking that linear time is your stand in for ? usual reality and this is door way to looking at how constructed or view of reality is
    Darren Islar: ?
    Maxine Walden: could you say a bit more, Vector?
    Pema Pera: (now three to five minute lag, so perhaps you should just ignore me :-)
    Bleu Oleander: is there a theory-independent concept of reality?
    Darren Islar: ah, got it, sorrry
    Maxine Walden: (I have had that happen, Pema, frustrating!)
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you mean that we don't know how constructed our view of reality is...?
    Vector Marksman: Yes
    Fefonz Quan: (now, or 3 min. ago?)
    Eliza Madrigal: but we do know how limited linear time seems...
    Vector Marksman: WE take it for the only way
    Zen Arado: it's more like a reality by consensus (most people's consensus) to me
    Vector Marksman: yes
    Darren Islar: I wonder if people are really living in lineair time
    Hana Furlough: it does seem that our linear view of time is limited, and yet almost no one sees anything other than linear time. i wonder why that is
    Zen Arado: linear time has got it's revenge on Pema :)
    Eden Haiku: ;)
    Maxine Walden: :))
    Darren Islar: :)
    Hana Furlough: haha
    Vector Marksman: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So part of the exploration is to then let the way linear time seems 'closed' or limiting be seen more clearly....
    Darren Islar: I think we live more in a ...... say psychological time
    Eliza Madrigal: I keep thinking of the Kira question 'what else is true?" It doesn't seem to help to wrestle with time.... even linear time
    Hana Furlough: can you say more about psychological time, darren?
    Maxine Walden: wb, Pema
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Pema
    Darren Islar: well, nobody knows when a minute has passed, or an hour
    Darren Islar: we only know because we look at the clock sometimes
    Eden Haiku: Pema's hair flowing with time...
    Fefonz Quan: why not Darren
    Pema Pera: (sorry, none of what I typed in the last ten minutes came back to my screen, so I logged out -- seems I have terrible lag today)
    Darren Islar: in between we have no idea about time in a strictly linear way
    SophiaSharon Larnia: subjectivity
    Bleu Oleander: does one's model of the world agree with observation? Is that all one can ask?
    Pema Pera: (so please keep going)

    Zen Arado: but we can also sense time passing Darren
    Fefonz Quan: we have some sense of flow, altough not in high prescision
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, like that question Bleu
    Darren Islar: maybe psychological time is more or less linear
    Darren Islar: but we also make jumps psychologically to other places and times
    Susan Aloix: yes agrees with eliza...great questions
    Darren Islar: it can even feel we are really there
    Fefonz Quan: maybe the jump is not to another time, but just a memory of that time?
    Hana Furlough: so our tendency is to make up some kind of story about time
    Darren Islar: maybe that is not how we experience it
    Darren Islar: just wondering, because we seem to take linear time for granted
    Vector Marksman: past, present, future seem to be a function of memory and that is such an important human function
    Pema Pera: yes Darren that is one of the amazing things of SL, pure phenomena yet such a sense of presence
    Darren Islar: wonders if that is really true
    SophiaSharon Larnia: funny, you think of time as having some objectivity, even if it isnt linear
    Darren Islar: maybe we live more in patterns
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (i guess)
    Susan Aloix: can you say more pema about *pure phenomena*?
    Fefonz Quan: I wonder too, but still i feel a difference between having a memory of NYC and being in NYC
    Darren Islar: I guess Sophia that is part of my question
    Maxine Walden: for me currently the quality of my attention (constricted, open, inclusive, etc) affects my experience of time
    Eden Haiku: A pickpocket stole my wallet with all my credit and identity cards in a coffe shop yesterday between 5h30 and 6pm. That moment in time seems painfully real to me right now :)
    Darren Islar: patterns as clusters of time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (when I said 'you think' I meant in general, or me :D)
    Maxine Walden: ah, Eden, so sorry, yes, burning moment
    Hana Furlough: oh no, eden, i'm so sorry
    Eden Haiku: burns yes :)
    Zen Arado: a bad time Eden
    SophiaSharon Larnia: omg Eden I'm so sorry, i hope you are ok
    Darren Islar: I understand Eden, but those are moments, we suddenly start wondering about time
    Darren Islar: did you know the time when it happened
    Pema Pera: (I could if I had less lag, Susan . . . . sorry, I have minutes delay today . . . )
    Bleu Oleander: knows how that feels Eden :(
    Darren Islar: when you were still in the process of noticing something is wrong
    Susan Aloix: (oh my .....is :) )
    Eliza Madrigal: well, and space... invasion of space, caught by affected by unseen moment
    Darren Islar: times seems to stop when something bad happens to us
    Darren Islar: or something good
    Darren Islar: after that...... we look at the clock
    Eden Haiku: Yes, recreating the scene in my mind, feeling I was'nt "present " so I let it happen...
    Hana Furlough: yeah our experience totally changes in those moments
    Vector Marksman: Linear time ends in death of the individual (whatever that is) and the goal to find an alternative may be related to that somehow, I think
    Darren Islar: (but sorry to hear Eden)
    Bleu Oleander: pick-pockets count on that Eden :)
    Fefonz Quan: maybe those mon=ment are when we are really attentive, really there(/then), while in other we are a little more sleepy and oblivious
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) Vector, intersting
    Maxine Walden: and yet when we are lost as in a book, we lose track of time...
    Hana Furlough: can you say more about an alternative, vector?
    Bleu Oleander: say more Vector?
    Hana Furlough: m
    Darren Islar: yes, living in the book :)
    Darren Islar: or sl as pema mentioned
    Eliza Madrigal: some say death is like a thief in the blind spot too ...
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Vector Marksman: somehow that time is an illsion - a construct, means more than something about time
    Vector Marksman: it is about life, reality
    Fefonz Quan: we loose track of 'outer' time, but we are well engaed in the 'book' time (like dream time)
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Vector
    Maxine Walden: good point, Fef
    Darren Islar: btw I don't mean to say linear time doesn't excist, my question is more like, are we really living in linear time?
    Eliza Madrigal: so where does the 'juice' come from.... the attention we're doling out to story/book time?
    Fefonz Quan: so in that sense time is the ground of the story, on which it evolves
    Fefonz Quan: it's the rail that aloow each story to travel upon
    Fefonz Quan: allows*
    Maxine Walden: interesting comment...pondering it, Fef
    Zen Arado: reality is the ground - time is just a construction we mark out on it?
    Singh Albatros: all discussion of time suggest we are out of time, commenting on something we are separate from. If there is consciousnes and the direct experience discussion of time is not the same of the cognition of the source of time which may be timelessness
    Fefonz Quan: well, reality can mean anything in that sense...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Darren Islar: interesting Singh
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Zen Arado: it's beacuse reality is indescribable that we want to freeze it somehow to make it more understandable?
    Singh Albatros: going inside time and become time itself or one with it perhaps
    Vector Marksman: yes, squeeze it into our poor concepts
    Darren Islar: I wonder if people ages ago new about time as much as I do
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ewxploring that dimension
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb HAna
    Darren Islar: maybe they trusted their patterns more
    Hana Furlough: sorry computer crash
    Darren Islar: sory, as we do now
    Zen Arado: it was more undefin ed I thin Darren
    Susan Aloix: become one with time...interesting
    Singh Albatros: words mirror, approximate, but time doesn not need us or our words
    Eliza Madrigal: going inside time sounds like doing something, implies distance somehow to me ... is that direct experience / immediate?
    Zen Arado: we seem to have the notion more and more
    Darren Islar: becoming one with patterns.....
    Zen Arado: refined *
    Eliza Madrigal: yet it also seems 'closer' than time happening 'to'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: distance Eliza?
    Hana Furlough: can you say more about becoming one with patterns?

    Singh Albatros: going inside is just a metaphor
    Darren Islar: like the farmer knows when it is going to rain, or knows what he needs to do when in the dayperiod
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I guess I was thinking of 'going' @ Sharon... thinking... many interesting ideas
    Darren Islar: connecting your own patterns with others
    Pema Pera: (sorry, I think I'll just log out and read the chat log later, and perhaps comment by email -- I don't think I receive even all the lines, some seem to be missing ; I hope my connection is better again next week)
    Darren Islar: your patterns with patterns 'outside' you
    Maxine Walden: somehow the image of being a small boat on a vast ocean comes to mind, the boat being me/us with our senses, etc and the ocean being Time, both vast, but also encompassing, intimate, all around, and not really linear...allways present always now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: aww Pema, see you later :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sorry to see you go Pema!
    Darren Islar: bye Pema, sorry to hear
    Hana Furlough: bye pema, better next time
    Bleu Oleander: bye Pema :(
    Eliza Madrigal: Look forward to reading your email(s) Pema
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Pema!
    Vector Marksman: byr pema
    Zen Arado: bye Pema
    Susan Aloix: oh dear......sorry to here...catch you next week pema
    Darren Islar: nicely put Maxine
    Maxine Walden: bye pema, sorry for the poor connection
    Fefonz Quan: but is the boiat seperated from time?
    Fefonz Quan: boat*
    SophiaSharon Larnia: is this the distance Eliza, stepping intot the boat?
    Eden Haiku: Sorry, phone: afk...
    Darren Islar: a boat is made to float on it, but wasn't needed if there wasn't time
    Fefonz Quan: with no ocean, how can the boat sail?
    Darren Islar: right
    Eliza Madrigal: yes perhaps that's it Sharon... the sense of stepping into the boat... metaphors are so difficult (thinks of Vector's Rumi quote at the end of his report)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: but there is a sense that we've not noticed the boat before sometimes... that it has always been tossing us this way and that....
    Zen Arado: maybe like we are in the water but climb onto a boat and put markers on the water
    Hana Furlough: nice, zen : )
    Susan Aloix: Up, up...and....
    Susan Aloix: ...away?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Fefonz Quan: (was there a vector's report this week?)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh My Susan. Hah
    Darren Islar: and maybe we think we can't swim, but are actually good swimmers :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Fef, in the comments section
    Darren Islar: so the boat is maybe more then we need
    Hana Furlough: yes, like rilke's swan
    Fefonz Quan: ah thanks
    Bleu Oleander: we are mostly water ..... so one with the ocean ... one with time?
    Vector Marksman: Time is an ocean, but it ends at the shore. I may not see you tomorrow. (Bob Dylan Haiku)
    Susan Aloix: apologies for elevating lol
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Susan Aloix: lol
    Hana Furlough: haha nice
    Darren Islar: yes, the shore, damn :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you know a boat metaphor here read to me as physicality
    SophiaSharon Larnia: reads*
    Zen Arado: yes Sharon
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps an illusion of solidity/separation from the ocean?
    Zen Arado: that too Eliza :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (sorry about all the typos, extreme even for me)
    Zen Arado: not as bad as me Sharon :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ah yes
    Darren Islar: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: to Eliza hehe
    Fefonz Quan: yes, we have a respectful clab for this here Sharon :)
    Darren Islar: yes, Eliza
    Fefonz Quan: club* ;-)
    Zen Arado: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
    Vector Marksman: Our bodies have the ocean internalized... embodeiment seems connected to time as we know it
    Eliza Madrigal: we are an international forum after all ;-)
    Darren Islar: but maybe we first need to learn to float at the ocean, before we can start learning to swim
    Maxine Walden: agree, Vector
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Darren :)
    Darren Islar: float on
    Zen Arado: maybe we should stay in the ocean
    Susan Aloix: likes knowing i have the ocean inside me......
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Darren Islar: hmmmm, yes Zen :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: embodiment yes, i meant that more than physicality, thanks
    Zen Arado: prefers river as metaphor though
    Fefonz Quan: just look for the storms Susan
    Zen Arado: though the ocean is ever changing too I guess
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Susan :))
    Susan Aloix: yeah.....we really do allow nature to inhabit our very bodies.......
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose the boundary is what interests me in this discussion... the inside/outside point.... the construction
    Susan Aloix: :) fefonz
    Susan Aloix: :) sharon
    Darren Islar: yes, the points where the boat touches the water
    Bleu Oleander: boundaries .... arbitrary lines?
    Vector Marksman: boundarries,,, I agree, that is the issue
    Fefonz Quan: I find it more complicated Eliza, since regarding time we basically feel that we can't detach from it
    Hana Furlough: yes no lines
    Zen Arado: artificial lines?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, opening that up, or seeing the openness there... seems to free up time, phenomena too?
    Zen Arado: like SL boundary lines?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Alfred
    Fefonz Quan: i can't even start to imagine beinig 'apart from time', since everything is a flow, a movement
    SophiaSharon Larnia: right
    Bleu Oleander: turn off/on sl boundary lines .... nice if you could do that in rl Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: we are part of that movement though... there is an interraction....
    Vector Marksman: we are creatures of time
    Fefonz Quan: it's like your shadow, as fast as you run, it follows
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Alfred :)
    Susan Aloix: i think boundaries are place where we meet ourselves and yet equally meet *other*.......its a third place....neither subject nor object....a co-created entity or dialogue or energy
    Darren Islar: hey Alf
    Alfred Kelberry: oh! lots of people! :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Alf
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Alf!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha Alfred, our time session this morning is just coming to a c lose
    Hana Furlough: Hi Alf
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Susan re third place... yet not a negating of one for the other...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi alf
    Darren Islar: yes Alf, on friday there is a time-session before the normal session
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, it's not pab?
    Maxine Walden: afraid I have to go, see you all soon, I hope. Nice discussion
    Alfred Kelberry: ah, i see
    Maxine Walden: bye for now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but please pull up a chair
    Bleu Oleander: bye Maxine
    Eliza Madrigal: It will be shortly Afred :) It is PaB now, but time pab session
    Fefonz Quan nods to Vector, maybe thats why it's so hard to investiaget it
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Maxine, thank you...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Maxine
    Susan Aloix: well there are times when i feel the loss of separation...and i am one with the sunset eliza.......or one with another
    Alfred Kelberry: i was surprised to see so many at this time :)
    Darren Islar: it is concentrated PaB :)
    Susan Aloix: bye maxine
    Zen Arado: bye Maxine
    Bleu Oleander: I'll close out the time session and switch to reg PaB?
    Fefonz Quan: bye Maxine
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye max, bye everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: so there in that 'place' Susan.... say more?

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