2010.09.28 13:00 - How to ask for help

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.

     

    Qt Core: Hi Alfred
    Alfred Kelberry: qt :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i've seen you guys talking nearby
    Alfred Kelberry: oi, riddle the founder :)
    Alfred Kelberry: woly in her fancy dress :)
    Wol Euler: hello riddle qt barca
    Wol Euler: hello alf
    Wol Euler: and thtanks
    Qt Core: hi wol
    Riddle Sideways: hello boxy and Barc and Qt and Wol
    Barcalona Rhapsody: hi all
    Alfred Kelberry: is there a typo in your name, barc?
    Barcalona Rhapsody: i saw the nice art exhibition
    Barcalona Rhapsody: no its a choice
    Barcalona Rhapsody: to get the name rhapsody
    Barcalona Rhapsody: that was not possible with barcelona
    Alfred Kelberry: a typo then :)
    Barcalona Rhapsody: and i like it because its like barc alone
    Wol Euler: :)
    Barcalona Rhapsody: hypo typo
    Wol Euler: hello trevor, haven't seen you here in ages
    Wol Euler: ty riddle :)
    Wol Euler: brb
    Barcalona Rhapsody: hi trevor
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Trevor
    Trevor Berensohn: Hullo all =)
    Qt Core: Hi Trevor
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Darren
    Wol Euler: back, and hello darren
    Darren Islar: hi everyone :)
    Barcalona Rhapsody: hi dar
    Trevor Berensohn: Hi Darren
    Qt Core: Hi Darren
    Darren Islar waves to QT
    Riddle Sideways: so, my today topic is how to ask for help and get an education not just have somebody do it for me
    Alfred Kelberry: the fountain has a tail :)
    Wol Euler: good one.
    Riddle Sideways: many times happens in SL
    Trevor Berensohn: ?
    Wol Euler: asking for help is often difficult because pride gets in the way
    Riddle Sideways: there is that, but don't think that is my prob
    Darren Islar: I need to pick up on the subject)
    Qt Core: from the asker pov, and from the answerer pov there is fear about losing power if lthey don't have some "hidden" knowledge
    Wol Euler: could you elaborate on the problem please?
    Darren Islar: thanks Wol :)
    Riddle Sideways: I screwed up putting my texture onto the exhibit
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Riddle Sideways: did not know what I messed
    Wol Euler: if you have time we can look at it afterwards
    Riddle Sideways: no is fixed
    --BELL--
    Wol Euler: I promise I won't touch anytjing :)
    Riddle Sideways: was fixed for me
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Qt Core: i got a little help (in notecard form) on how to do it... felt quite accomplished after having done it (that says something on my sl slills ;-) )
    Qt Core: skills
    Darren Islar: but you don't know how it has been fixed?
    Riddle Sideways: well, I do now
    Riddle Sideways: got the notecard too
    Riddle Sideways: and see what I did
    Riddle Sideways: but, brings up the question of how to ask
    Qt Core: gently ;-)
    Darren Islar: :)
    Riddle Sideways: you mean yelling does no good :)
    Qt Core: but a big club may be ;-)
    Barcalona Rhapsody: there are different styles to ask
    Barcalona Rhapsody: politely and direct
    Barcalona Rhapsody: or in an indirect way
    Wol Euler: you could say something like "I want to learn how to do it properly, please tell me how but let me do it myself."
    Riddle Sideways: like the 3 questions I have sent (over the last week) to Logitech
    Riddle Sideways: sorry, pet peeve this week
    arabella Ella: Hiya
    Wol Euler: no, it's fine, it is a valid question :)
    Riddle Sideways: back to learning
    Alfred Kelberry: i first tend to ask google - it never complains :)
    Qt Core: Hi ara
    Trevor Berensohn: Hi Ella
    Barcalona Rhapsody: hi ara
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Alfred Kelberry: oi, ara
    Riddle Sideways: Hi ara
    Darren Islar: hi Ara :)
    arabella Ella: what do you ask Google for Alf?
    Riddle Sideways: currently asking Google about android dev
    arabella Ella: ah ty
    Riddle Sideways: but when lonely I just ask google about the weather
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: it was Google's birthday yesterday
    Wol Euler: wow
    arabella Ella: twelve
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, the topic (from riddle) is "how to ask for help"
    Wol Euler: strange concept somehow :)
    Wol Euler: but I suppose SL has birthdays too
    arabella Ella: how to ask for help on anything ... just generic?
    Riddle Sideways asks Google what SL b-day is
    Qt Core: going teen and ormonal... i'm seeing sporting boobies as the Os ;-)
    Trevor Berensohn: A friend ofmine just celebrated his 9th AA "birthday" yesterday a well
    arabella Ella: :)
    Riddle Sideways: congrats to him
    Wol Euler: it's a question about asking, not about help as such ara
    arabella Ella: oh
    Barcalona Rhapsody: how to ask a question
    Wol Euler: yes, congratulations
    Barcalona Rhapsody: question
    Barcalona Rhapsody: so that u can do it yourselve
    Riddle Sideways: to be educated
    arabella Ella nods
    Barcalona Rhapsody: you ask for a self service
    Wol Euler: [13:13] Qt Core: from the answerer pov there is fear about losing power if lthey don't have some "hidden" knowledge
    Wol Euler: in my experience that power doesn't exist except in the answerer's imagination
    Wol Euler: the gratitude you get for answering far outweighs the awe you might have had as het holder of secrets
    Barcalona Rhapsody: i think so too
    Qt Core: don't know, wol, thinks about "trade secrets" not shared between colleagues so you can be better than other
    Barcalona Rhapsody: ok
    Wol Euler: well :) I've never had to work in an environment like that, thnk god
    Barcalona Rhapsody: as a kind of compatitive value
    arabella Ella: dont different scenarios apply to different cases?
    Barcalona Rhapsody: sure
    arabella Ella: so both Wol and Qt are correct
    Wol Euler: I thinkk that's a dangerous atttitude, very short-term-thinking
    Riddle Sideways: some knowledge that took you days to learn. Given away free to one who spent only 5 min
    Qt Core: never said it was good ;-)
    Wol Euler: if the only reason the company doesn't fire you is because you are teh one who can fix the printer, then you are sure to be fired some day
    Barcalona Rhapsody: but it can also be difficult to ask a question when u are supposedto be the profesional
    Darren Islar: keeping secret in work environments is the cause of a lot of money being wasted
    Alfred Kelberry: riddle, give us a more concrete example
    Wol Euler: right
    Wol Euler: (to dadrren)
    Qt Core: have to go, bye all, have fun ... and share knowledge ;-)
    arabella Ella: bye Qt
    Barcalona Rhapsody: bye qt
    Darren Islar: bye QT :)
    Riddle Sideways: bye QT
    --BELL--
    Trevor Berensohn: byeQT
    Wol Euler: knowledge is like money, it's useless if it isn't in motion.
    Wol Euler: you could have fifteen tons of gold in the cellar, but if you never leave the house, it's worthless.
    Darren Islar: right yes
    arabella Ella: i disagree Wol
    Wol Euler: please do :)
    arabella Ella: that is only one aspect, the pragmatic view
    arabella Ella: but there is intrinsic pleasure in learning too
    Barcalona Rhapsody: sharing knowledge is multiplying knowledge
    arabella Ella: like about art or culture
    Wol Euler: oh yes, of course!
    Wol Euler: absolutely!
    arabella Ella: or philosophy
    Darren Islar: the remark was not about learning I think
    Darren Islar: and I do agree completely
    arabella Ella: i may accumulate a lot of knowledge about for example Van Gogh and never use it
    Barcalona Rhapsody: why not ?
    Darren Islar: ah, that way
    Barcalona Rhapsody: but accumulate is not sharing
    Wol Euler: but would you share it with someone who asked?
    Darren Islar: but if somebody would aks you about this knowledge, would you share?
    Wol Euler: snap
    Darren Islar: snap
    arabella Ella: yes of course, in my case i would but only if the opportunity arose
    Barcalona Rhapsody: ok
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: and the opportunity may never arise
    Darren Islar: shoot, cam in secod :)
    Barcalona Rhapsody: and when a terrorist asked ?
    arabella Ella: ah if the terrorist had a gun to my head ... maybe ... who knows
    Darren Islar: yes, context is important, there are always situations in which you need to be careful with information
    Darren Islar: sure
    Barcalona Rhapsody: so it may be the circumstances that make u share or not
    Darren Islar: sure Ara, but it is more about valid information that is kept for use of power or at least having an advantage
    arabella Ella: circumstances and context and opportunity
    Riddle Sideways: if they ask gently and nicely
    Barcalona Rhapsody: but with google you dont need to share
    Darren Islar: yes I agree Barcalona
    Barcalona Rhapsody: evrybody can search for himnself
    Darren Islar: but I think you use a principle, then ask yourself if the principle is valid in a certain situation
    Barcalona Rhapsody: ok
    Riddle Sideways: google not very good at subjective decisions
    Barcalona Rhapsody: right
    Riddle Sideways: for the one who knows not how to ask, you must provide ajax
    Darren Islar: no ;)
    arabella Ella: ajax?
    Trevor Berensohn: oh dear...
    Riddle Sideways: computer geekie look ahead stuff
    Wol Euler: :)
    Barcalona Rhapsody: and when u self dont know how to ask try to ask with somebody's help
    Barcalona Rhapsody: in libraries they help u to ask
    Wol Euler nods
    Barcalona Rhapsody: or to search
    arabella Ella: are there not two ways of asking
    arabella Ella: you could use words
    Wol Euler: this is where Microsoft Help fails: it's absolutely useless if you don't know the name of the tool you want to use.
    arabella Ella: or you could point or 'show' something you may wish to ask
    Darren Islar: Ajax is a team that plays football in Holland :)
    Barcalona Rhapsody: oksure
    arabella Ella: i thought so Darren
    Riddle Sideways: and if you've lost wol's IM address how can you ask
    Barcalona Rhapsody: like FC barcelona
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: :
    Darren Islar: :)
    Adonis Foresight: hi
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Adon
    Barcalona Rhapsody: hi ado
    Darren Islar: hi Adonis
    arabella Ella: Hiya adonis
    Adonis Foresight: hi everyone
    Wol Euler: hello adonis, have you been here before?
    Adonis Foresight: no
    Adonis Foresight: so what are you guys doing here?
    Wol Euler: ok, I'll give you an introduction in IM so we don't disturb the others
    Adonis Foresight: ok thx
    Riddle Sideways: oh wol is so smooth at this goc stuff
    Barcalona Rhapsody: well i have to leave
    Barcalona Rhapsody: bye
    Barcalona Rhapsody: all
    Riddle Sideways: ok barca
    arabella Ella: bye barca
    --BELL--
    Darren Islar: bye Barce.......bit late
    arabella Ella: so could someone please illuminate Ara on what Ajax means in geek speak?
    arabella Ella: or do you wish to keep that info to yourselves?
    Darren Islar: :)
    Riddle Sideways: Async Javascript And XML
    Riddle Sideways: did that help :D
    arabella Ella: a little yes
    Wol Euler didn't know that either.
    Darren Islar: oh, and you can clean with Ajax in Holland
    arabella Ella: but see what i mean?
    Trevor Berensohn: Hey, I know what one of those words mean! =)
    Riddle Sideways: when you are still typing each letter in google or amazon
    Darren Islar: 'and'
    arabella Ella: people with technical knowledge are not always so easy to ask questions to
    Riddle Sideways: they see each letter rather then waiting until your done
    arabella Ella nods
    Wol Euler: it's also hard for them to know how to answer, what level of answer to give
    Riddle Sideways: then they guess all the search answers that might complete your query
    Wol Euler: (them = people with tech knowledge)
    arabella Ella: well Wol they could start by using a bit of empathy ... taking the questioner to be a 'dummy'
    Wol Euler nods.
    Riddle Sideways: ok, so sometimes people just do for me because explaining/educating me would take MUCH longer
    Riddle Sideways: that maybe true?
    Wol Euler: only in the short term
    Adonis Foresight: i agree
    Wol Euler: after they've done it for you eight times, they'll have crossed that line :)
    Adonis Foresight: they find it easier to do it instead
    Riddle Sideways: yes, so they will have to fix my textures tomorrow too
    Wol Euler nods.
    Riddle Sideways: however, they is just not much need for ya'll to know what the letter A J A X mean
    Riddle Sideways: unless your website needs fixing
    arabella Ella: true but it is interesting to know more or less what it implies
    Wol Euler: so usefulness is a criterion for deciding how to answer
    Riddle Sideways: better to know how to clean a frying pan
    Wol Euler: bruce!
    Wol Euler: welcome back.
    Riddle Sideways: ouch, bruce
    Wol Euler: you were missed.
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you.
    Darren Islar: hey Bruce :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Bruce!
    arabella Ella: Hiya Mick
    Wol Euler: hello mick
    Darren Islar: hi Mick :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, everyone. Please continue. . . .
    arabella Ella: seems like dreams has finished?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Mick.
    Riddle Sideways: so many the fullness of answer depends on need to know
    Adonis Foresight: hi bruce
    Trevor Berensohn: Hi Bruce & Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Folks
    Mickorod Renard: no, dreams is going strong
    Riddle Sideways: try this question....
    Riddle Sideways: what is the spelling of that word when you see somebody's tail
    Riddle Sideways: omagishi ?
    arabella Ella: 'onigokko'
    Wol Euler: "onigokko"
    Darren Islar: :)
    Riddle Sideways: ah
    Riddle Sideways: I could have looked that up, huh
    Darren Islar: somebody lost his tail
    Wol Euler: I'm not sure which query would get you that result in google though.
    Darren Islar: :)
    Mickorod Renard: just checked, I still have mine
    Darren Islar: :)
    Wol Euler: I told storm, guess he hasn't removed it yet
    Darren Islar: there is one I see on the other side of the pond
    Riddle Sideways: oh, that special google into the wiki for dancing
    Mickorod Renard: does it have a name on it?
    Alfred Kelberry: i can never remember the lettes after "oni"
    Wol Euler: it's aphro's
    Mickorod Renard: ahh
    Riddle Sideways: onigokko
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Riddle Sideways: so tricky with the quotes
    Trevor Berensohn: lol
    Darren Islar: Alf is doing is own 'onigokko' :)
    Riddle Sideways: stop
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Alf!!! Cool!
    --BELL--
    Alfred Kelberry: refreshing
    Alfred Kelberry: *bows* thank you :)
    Riddle Sideways: thank you for allowing me to vent and be dumb :)
    Riddle Sideways: goota go now
    Wol Euler whaps you with a cushion
    Riddle Sideways: bye
    Wol Euler: bye riddle, take care
    Alfred Kelberry: you go back to be smart again?
    Darren Islar: bye riddle
    arabella Ella: bye Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: why I was moving
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Riddle.
    Mickorod Renard: bye riddle
    arabella Ella: nice brolley Bruce
    Wol Euler: hello aggers
    Alfred Kelberry: wol, that was a nice cushion move
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, aggers.
    arabella Ella: Hiya Ags
    Agatha Macbeth: Ello dere
    Darren Islar: hi Agatha
    Mickorod Renard: Hi ags
    Agatha Macbeth: Is it raining?
    Bruce Mowbray: thanks, ara.
    Darren Islar: only words :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Aloha again Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: greetings everyone,  and aloha `oe Ags
    Wol Euler: hello pila
    Trevor Berensohn: Hi Pila
    arabella Ella: Hey Pila how are you?
    Pila Mulligan: I'm well thanks
    Agatha Macbeth: Call me Mary
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: It's a jolly 'oliday with mary....
    arabella Ella: why cant i wear it Bruce?
    Wol Euler: turn off your AO?
    arabella Ella: oh there it is
    arabella Ella: how does it work?
    Wol Euler: click on it
    Agatha Macbeth: Touch it Ara
    Wol Euler: there :)
    Pila Mulligan: guess we don't need to worry about rain here now
    Bruce Mowbray: There you go!
    Trevor Berensohn: Haha
    Darren Islar: need to go
    Agatha Macbeth: Good to see you back Bruce :)
    Darren Islar: see you :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye daz
    Pila Mulligan: bye Darren
    Mickorod Renard: bye daz
    Wol Euler: bye darren, take care
    arabella Ella: bye Darren
    Mickorod Renard: oh yes, how was the big apple bruce?
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice pips?
    arabella Ella: did Eve offer it to you?
    Agatha Macbeth: That Eve has a lot to answer for ;-)
    arabella Ella: does she?
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Trevor Berensohn: So do her detractors
    arabella Ella: it always takes two to tango
    Wol Euler wonders what the head of the umbrella is supposed to represent.
    Agatha Macbeth: Or three in this case
    Trevor Berensohn: Well I'd best be off
    Agatha Macbeth: The top?
    Pila Mulligan: bye Trevor
    Trevor Berensohn: So good to see everyone again
    Agatha Macbeth waves
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Trevor. Hope you come back when you can.
    arabella Ella: bye Trev good to c u too
    Wol Euler: bye trevor, take care
    Mickorod Renard: bye Trev
    Agatha Macbeth: Cute Bruce
    Wol Euler: ty
    Mickorod Renard: thanks
    arabella Ella: maybe we should be more symmetric?
    Wol Euler: :)
    --BELL--
    arabella Ella: gtg good night everyone!
    Agatha Macbeth: Tatty bye Ara
    Wol Euler: 'night ara, sleep well
    Pila Mulligan: bye ara
    Bruce Mowbray: G'night, ara!
    Mickorod Renard: nite ara
    Mickorod Renard: wow, its hard typing with one hand
    Wol Euler chortles
    Mickorod Renard: especially the left one
    Agatha Macbeth: Not to mention unsteady
    Wol Euler: heh, that goes into the log, bruce :)
    Mickorod Renard: nice one bruce
    Mickorod Renard: ok, I need to head on home, feed the sl cats and so forth
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Pila Mulligan: bye Mick
    Wol Euler: you have sl cats?
    Mickorod Renard: bye folks
    Bruce Mowbray: Be well, Mick. See you again.
    Wol Euler: bye mick, take care
    Agatha Macbeth: Go and feed yer pussies Mick
    Wol Euler: bruce, I can't save that to my hard disk. could you make that last image copy and mod-enabled, and give me it again please?
    Bruce Mowbray: mmmm.. What is mod-enabled?
    Agatha Macbeth: Able to mod :)
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: OK.... Just a sec.
    Wol Euler: right click, choose properties, enable copy and modify
    Agatha Macbeth: Copy and modifah!
    Bruce Mowbray: There it is -- see if that works, OK?
    Wol Euler: yes, that worked. ty!
    Wol Euler: it'll be in he log
    Bruce Mowbray: cool!
    Bruce Mowbray is fantasizing everyone with a different colored umbrella doing the onigokko.
    Agatha Macbeth: onigokko
    Agatha Macbeth: Fantasy comes true...
    Bruce Mowbray: stop
    Bruce Mowbray: whew.
    Agatha Macbeth: Hee
    Agatha Macbeth: Pila poofed
    Agatha Macbeth: wb
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Agatha Macbeth: Raindrops keep falling on my head
    Bruce Mowbray is afk. . . fetching grub.
    Wol Euler: k
    Agatha Macbeth: Fetch Blub grub too
    Agatha Macbeth: Preferably ants eggs
    Bruce Mowbray will also fetch grubs for Blub.
    Wol Euler: if he forgot, it would be a blub grub flub.
    Agatha Macbeth: It would?
    Wol Euler: mhmm
    Pila Mulligan: yep, there's the rub
    Agatha Macbeth: Okay
    Wol Euler grins.
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan will slip off to do afternoon RL stuff for a while -- bye everyone
    Wol Euler: bye pila, have a nice day
    Pila Mulligan: thnks, bye for onw
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care Pila
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Pila!
    Wol Euler watches, fascinated.
    Agatha Macbeth: Bloody 'ell
    Bruce Mowbray skips feeding Blub to play with umbrella colors.
    Agatha Macbeth: Artistry
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: I'm slowly falling alseep in my chair, my dears.
    Agatha Macbeth: Go and take some aspirin and hit the hay :)
    Wol Euler: It's all right for you whippersnappers, but we oldies need our rest.
    Bruce Mowbray: G;night, Wol! Thank you!
    Wol Euler: goodnight, take care.
    Wol Euler: stay dry
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now
    Agatha Macbeth: C ya bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, aggers! Thank you!
     
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