2010.10.10 13:00 - considering the I Ching

    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.


    This lengthy session, about two hours, began with considerations about the Stuttgart retreat but soon turned to considerations about the I Ching, primarily between Calvino, Arabella and Morgano. A couple of other brief mentions were made, but the topic gravitated back to this topic. It is a very interesting session, for those who know little about the I Ching  (such as I) as well perhaps as those more versed in it.  I have edited some of the intros.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku
    Maxine Walden: quiet day it seems right now
    Maxine Walden: how are you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i am fine a bit unsure if i have everything for the drive to heidelberg tomorrow
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Maxine Walden: ah, yes...:)
    Maxine Walden: the retreat?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: actually it's by far closer to heidelberg then to stuttgart
    Maxine Walden: wonderful! Who all will be there?
    Maxine Walden: Pema, you, Wol, Eos...guess I could look it up
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bertram, lia
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that´s all sadly, i hoped to see more new faces
    Maxine Walden: yes, that is sad more could not come...
    Maxine Walden: I really hope you have an interesting, nourishing time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i try not to think or expect anything :)
    Maxine Walden: good idea!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: expectation is probably one of the things i try to get rid of :)
    Maxine Walden: yes!
    Maxine Walden: to just 'be' or play as Being
    Yakuzza Lethecus: to just, be" i guess, to just freely reflect and to split happyness and wellbeing apart from external factors
    Yakuzza Lethecus: while of course, i do grasp :)
    Maxine Walden: hmm ...don't we all
    Maxine Walden: hi, Calvino
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Maxine Walden: hi, Morgano
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and hey morgano
    morgano Bravin: Hi
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Yaky, Max - morgano too :)
    morgano Bravin: how are you all?
    Maxine Walden: Morgano, we have access to your voice reality as well as text. Care to turn your mic off?
    morgano Bravin: ok
    morgano Bravin: is that better?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not sure if it´s ,,better" but we don´t hear ur environment anymore :)
    morgano Bravin: ty
    Maxine Walden: thanks, Morgano. yes, not sure about 'better'
    morgano Bravin: its busy here..lots of family
    Maxine Walden: but yes reduces a lovely distraction into your family...:)
    Maxine Walden: Yaku and I were just musing about the Stuttgart retreat which he goes to tomorrow...
    Maxine Walden: going without expectations ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least i try, there are always tacid expecations,grasp and hopes i guess
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even if it´s simply tho hope for nice serendipity´s :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: some enlightening moments and communications
    Maxine Walden: ...part of our being human, Yaku; maybe we discover how human we are at these retreats...
    morgano Bravin: I think our humanity comes across well on sl
    morgano Bravin: sorry
    Maxine Walden: :) Morgano, I was talking during one of he earlier 90 sec as well. Your point, our humanity shining through in SL is so true it seems to me
    arabella Ella: Hiya
    Maxine Walden: hi, ara!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ara :)
    morgano Bravin: Hiya Ara
    morgano Bravin: nice outfit Ara
    Calvino Rabeni: Are you studying I Ching lately, and maybe you've done a reading on the coming retreat?
    arabella Ella: thanks morgano
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Ara :)
    morgano Bravin: I have been looking at the i ching,,i downloaded something onto my i phone
    morgano Bravin: I may attend Pila's session this week
    Calvino Rabeni: Those times when there's a change in circumstances seem to be a good time to do a reading ... like going to a retreat, or going on a trip
    Calvino Rabeni: Going on a trip is a deep archetype :)
    arabella Ella: is it Calvino ...please say more if you cud
    morgano Bravin: yes, and the i ching can settle quite alot of anxieties when facing change
    Alfred Kelberry: meep-meep! :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, alf. welcome
    morgano Bravin: Hi alf
    Alfred Kelberry: thanks :)
    Calvino Rabeni: When people make a decision or face unknown changes, or have an upcoming transition - things are up in the air, there are many influences in different directions to get a feel for and sort out
    arabella Ella: Hey Alfie how r u?
    Alfred Kelberry: good to see you all
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe some risks, things being left behind, new things coming
    Alfred Kelberry: i'm good. just fro mthe emergency science circle meeting :)
    Calvino Rabeni: confusions, curiousities, fears, hopes are activated
    arabella Ella: that is very interesting as a perspective Calvino
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi alf :)
    Alfred Kelberry: yaku :)
    Alfred Kelberry: spicy qt :)
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and qt
    Calvino Rabeni: And we know the enduring metaphors of journeys
    morgano Bravin: I feel the iching acts as a filter in those circumstances
    Calvino Rabeni: every story has one, it seems
    morgano Bravin: Hi Qt
    Calvino Rabeni: things seem more potential then than actual
    arabella Ella: Hiya Qt buonasera!
    Maxine Walden: we are talking about the I Ching, and change, Alf. Would also like to hear about your meeting, perhaps in a bit
    Calvino Rabeni: like small decisions might have a big effect
    Maxine Walden: hi, Qt
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, thank you, maxine. i was trying to catch up :)
    Maxine Walden: :) (I am always trying to catch up, Alf)
    arabella Ella: how do you seee the i ching as helping in such circumstances Calvino?
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes I do, because it maps out different perspectives for how the changes may happen
    Calvino Rabeni: getting one to consider possibilities
    Calvino Rabeni: Even if it loosens or stirs the imagination a little
    arabella Ella: but ... do you think we impose our own meaning on the reading since there is the element of chance involved?
    arabella Ella: i am just trying to draw out some thoughts if you dont mind
    Alfred Kelberry: ara, i think we always do
    Calvino Rabeni: All meaning is something we impose and something that's already there - a combination
    arabella Ella: mmmm
    Calvino Rabeni: so the reading of the I Ching is asking oneself to make just such a combination
    morgano Bravin: I myself, believe it shows possible outcomes and reminds the reader that the correct choices are important,,in other words it just provides some contemplation time prior to action
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes !
    Calvino Rabeni: Contemplation to consider the possibilties in a way that is coherent with what one knows about the world
    morgano Bravin: its funny how we jump into things without considering things quite as well as we could have
    Calvino Rabeni: True :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And so an oracle asks us to do that a bit more
    Calvino Rabeni: as an aid to contemplation
    morgano Bravin: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
    arabella Ella: night Yaku (for the record)
    morgano Bravin: nite yaku
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe reality is like the multidimensional situation with huge number of latent possibilities - the reading helps collapse and name it for comprehension -
    morgano Bravin: maybe we have an infinite amount of directions and that we have a choice to which dimensional path to follow?
    Calvino Rabeni: that makes sense
    Maxine Walden: This is a very important topic, the I Ching, the many possibilities...and do not want to cut it short, but also would like to have Alf tell us about the meeting he just went to, which may affect us all in SL, is that correct, Alf?
    morgano Bravin: but like with clouds in the sky, even multiple posibilities have patterns they tend to adhere to
    arabella Ella: if i may very quickly too ... maybe before alf ...
    arabella Ella: tomorrow Noam Chomsky is being interviewed on SL
    arabella Ella: at Metanomics
    arabella Ella: at 12
    arabella Ella: Apologies ... on Tuesday I meant NOT tomorrow
    Maxine Walden: ah, thanks, would be great to hear him
    arabella Ella: not sure about 12AM or PM I always mix that up
    arabella Ella: but would be 8 PM UK time
    morgano Bravin: what sort of topic will she talk about Ara?
    Maxine Walden: :) OK, maybe we can calculatefrom that.
    arabella Ella: i dont yet know but it should be on the metanomics website
    morgano Bravin: ty
    arabella Ella: Noam Chomsky is well known as a linguist and as an american political activist
    Maxine Walden: thanks, ara.
    morgano Bravin: didnt she teach Latin?
    arabella Ella: ehrm ... it is 'he'
    Maxine Walden: Alf, would you like to tell us about the meeting? (I will need to leave soon, but we should get this info in the chatlog, likely)
    arabella Ella: he has been active for around 50 years i guess now
    arabella Ella: yes please Alf I'm done and apologies!
    Maxine Walden: :) no apologies needed!!
    Maxine Walden: too many good things to hear...
    morgano Bravin: thankfully not from my voice
    morgano Bravin: :)
    Maxine Walden: :)
    arabella Ella: LOL
    Maxine Walden: alf?
    arabella Ella: allo allo Alfie
    Maxine Walden: I think alf is about to tell us about an emergency meeting among some SL folks about the intended cessation of discount for tier for non-profits in SL. Is that close to the mark, Alf?
    arabella Ella: seems like Alfie is having a little nap?
    Maxine Walden: Oh, dear, I have to go, and was hoping this info could get into the chatlog...I will look for the link and post it of course. Have a ferry to catch...
    morgano Bravin: have fun Max
    Maxine Walden: Sorry... to have to leave...see you all soon!
    Qt Core: bye maxine
    morgano Bravin: byeeeee
    Maxine Walden: hope alf is able to share...
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care, Max, Bye
    arabella Ella: we will ask Alfie if he gets back
    arabella Ella: bye Maxine
    morgano Bravin: maybe Cal can give more insite into the iching?
    Calvino Rabeni: There's a wheel on the post behind me
    morgano Bravin: what does it do Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: The ancients wanted a map to the possibilities in nature and their world, so they created this as a map
    morgano Bravin: ohh?
    Calvino Rabeni: The wheel turning represents changes
    Calvino Rabeni: things wax and wane, warm and cool in cycles
    morgano Bravin: yes, like nature?
    Calvino Rabeni: they also looked around and saw basically three levels to reality
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: they were looking to understand nature
    Calvino Rabeni: and creating a scientific framework for it
    arabella Ella: three levels?
    arabella Ella: it is a lovely wheel Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: so they saw three levels - the middle level is where we live as humans
    arabella Ella: i like the yin and yang in the middle
    morgano Bravin: ok
    Calvino Rabeni: and there is an underworld below, and a spirit world above
    Calvino Rabeni: so they sorted the observed world into these three layers
    Calvino Rabeni: which they called earth, heaven ... and in the middle, human world
    arabella Ella: sounds a bit like earth heaven and hell to me
    Calvino Rabeni: no hell
    Calvino Rabeni: just humans between heaven and earth
    arabella Ella: ah
    Calvino Rabeni: thus came the trigrams, those three-line diagrams on the wheel
    morgano Bravin: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: They wanted to apply this to situations - places we find ourselves in
    Calvino Rabeni: and noticed that there is an inner aspect and an outer aspect to situations
    Calvino Rabeni: like if the inner aspect is personal, the outer aspect is the world around
    Calvino Rabeni: so they meant, something like the content and the contexts
    Calvino Rabeni: or the obvious, and the surrounding invisible influences
    Calvino Rabeni: so they doubled the trigram to make a hexagram
    morgano Bravin: mmm I see
    Calvino Rabeni: which has a lower one and and upper one
    Calvino Rabeni: the lower one represents the immediate
    arabella Ella: intruiging
    Calvino Rabeni: the upper one represents the surrounding influences and contexts
    morgano Bravin: sort of an early quantum mechanic computer?
    Calvino Rabeni: then a combination of two trigrams is an I Ching hexagram
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes exactly that is a good metaphor
    Calvino Rabeni: these are the independent vectors of change at different frequencies
    Calvino Rabeni: each line is a different frequency
    Calvino Rabeni: the "motion" in the I Ching is thought of as arising from the bottom and rising to the top
    Calvino Rabeni: so when the lines are created for a reading, it goes from bottom to top
    Calvino Rabeni: Some people think the I Ching is a "binary number" system
    Calvino Rabeni: but it isn't really true -
    Calvino Rabeni: The changes themselves are continuous
    morgano Bravin: on the wheel are eight gua..was that the first ones?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes thos are gua
    Calvino Rabeni: So if we click on the wheel
    Calvino Rabeni: we would get the lower trigram of a reading
    Calvino Rabeni: an again for the upper
    morgano Bravin: I see
    Calvino Rabeni: so we have Fire below, wind above
    morgano Bravin: so u dont mix them
    morgano Bravin: always the opposites?
    Calvino Rabeni: Fire over Wind if we look it up is hexagram 50, ssymbolizing a Cauldron
    arabella Ella: ah
    Calvino Rabeni: What is your question about the opposites?
    arabella Ella: should we ask a question now?
    morgano Bravin: oh no,,I stopped it so i guess u can do my reading?
    morgano Bravin: I was guessing this is the primary group
    Calvino Rabeni: usually one formulates a "question" to prime the mind beforehand
    Calvino Rabeni: and then let it sit for a while, to get a feel for it
    arabella Ella: ok i have formulated mine
    morgano Bravin: and that the sets are coupled with their opposites on the wheel?
    Calvino Rabeni: getting a little into not knowing, wondering, surveying the question
    arabella Ella nods
    Calvino Rabeni: and then one's mind is a little looser to receive the reading
    arabella Ella loosens my mind a bit ...
    arabella Ella shakes my head ... to loosen ... not joking ...
    Calvino Rabeni: It really means, taking a kind of survey of all ones subtler ideas about a whole situation, which are carried in the body as subtle feelings
    Calvino Rabeni: and yes sometimes loosening ones body can help that too
    Calvino Rabeni: and letting go of things that are claiming too much attention
    Calvino Rabeni: I think morgano was asking about the structure of the gua?
    morgano Bravin: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: on this wheel it is precisely arranged you probably noticed
    Qt Core: sleeptime, bye all
    morgano Bravin: just in respect of the wheel
    morgano Bravin: nite Qt
    Calvino Rabeni: that each diagram / gua faces its complement across the diameter of the wheel
    morgano Bravin: sleep tite
    Calvino Rabeni: ByeQT :)
    morgano Bravin: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: So each one is an inverse of the one it's balanced across form
    morgano Bravin: so i was thinking this must be just the primary gua
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, this is called the Earlier Heaven Bagua
    morgano Bravin: presumably they thought the primary were sufficient at one time
    Calvino Rabeni: It shows the rising and falling of a complete cycle of energy, which repeats
    morgano Bravin: do you think they were right to increase them?
    morgano Bravin: what is it now? 64?
    Calvino Rabeni: one trigram is 8 states, 2 trigrams is 64 states
    Calvino Rabeni: or rather combination of 8 states for an inner and and outer aspect of a situation
    morgano Bravin: I wonder whether its still possible to read succesfully just using the primary?
    Calvino Rabeni: There is also a web of influences or meanings operating between the two trigrams
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes I would say so
    Calvino Rabeni: it is like measuring things
    Calvino Rabeni: you can measure as many things as you want
    Calvino Rabeni: or like a coordinate system
    Calvino Rabeni: you use one to see how long a line is
    Calvino Rabeni: two to see how big an area is
    Calvino Rabeni: three to measure volume, etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: so asking whether there should be one or two or more gua is a little like asking how many coordinate axes there ought to really be
    morgano Bravin: mmm not sure I understand that bit Cal
    arabella Ella: do you mean like going into stuff more in detail, more specifics?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: an application of the "basic idea"
    arabella Ella: so could we try to have the reading of the hexagram that emerged tonight please Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: independent of the "historical form" of the book known as the I Ching
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: However ... there's also the issue of poetry
    Calvino Rabeni: If the "map" is too complicated, it doesn't make good poetry
    arabella Ella nods
    Calvino Rabeni: so maps are always simplified compared to reality
    arabella Ella: yet simplified maps can still retain an element of complexity but portrayed in a simple way
    Calvino Rabeni: thus they needed something more complicated than a trigram, but three would have just been unmanagable
    Calvino Rabeni: right
    Calvino Rabeni: The wheel here does not give a full reading though
    arabella Ella: but you said the no 50 emerged?
    Calvino Rabeni: because traditionally the readings give the ability for the lines themselves to be dynamic
    morgano Bravin: this was what i was wondering?
    arabella Ella: yes we could say 50 with no moving lines today
    Calvino Rabeni: Right, it gives the Cauldron, with no moving lines
    arabella Ella nods
    Calvino Rabeni: The lower one is called Wind, but also sometimes Wood
    Calvino Rabeni: something like a plant or a tree
    arabella Ella: oh
    Calvino Rabeni: it has two solid lines and the bottom one is broken
    Calvino Rabeni: reminiscent of the way a tree has roots that divide and penetrate into the earth
    arabella Ella: mmmm
    Calvino Rabeni: but above is the solid part of the tree, the visible part
    arabella Ella: and do you have the text for it Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: just a second :)
    Calvino Rabeni: http://deoxy.org/iching/50
    Calvino Rabeni: In reading these descriptions, they will define the meaning in very specific terms
    arabella Ella: oh i cannot open oher windows with this viewer cal
    Calvino Rabeni: however the diagram itself has a more abstract meaning that could apply to any situation
    arabella Ella: *other
    Calvino Rabeni: such as your own situation, the one that was hidden inside the "question" asked before the reading
    Calvino Rabeni: OK ara :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Remember the texts are the result of comtemplation of the basic image shown by the diagram
    Calvino Rabeni: they can't be regarded as authoritative
    Calvino Rabeni: so to one view it might have been about a religious offering,
    Calvino Rabeni: or about the proper way for their society to work
    Calvino Rabeni: etc. that
    Calvino Rabeni: s not the meaning of the hexagram
    Calvino Rabeni: just an application of it in a particular culture and value system
    Calvino Rabeni: so in learning the I Ching one of the efforts is to try to "read through" that
    Calvino Rabeni: and the best way is to see how it applies to ones own situations
    arabella Ella: intuitively you mean?
    morgano Bravin: I seem to have my knickers in a twist over something
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe, intuitively or analytically or any combination
    arabella Ella nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm Morgano, ?
    morgano Bravin: the wheel doesnt just have the primary gua
    Calvino Rabeni: Well I read there briefly lots of interpretations of 50
    Calvino Rabeni: for example,
    arabella Ella giggles at morgano's english expressions
    Calvino Rabeni: Overview: Ting is very much concerned with the provision of necessities for a community to exist harmoniously. Unlike Ching, which deals with the basics, Ting is about the "extras". The sharing of a well-prepared meal is a ritual throughout the world for cultivation the bonds between people. As well as providing for the body Ting reminds you that the spiritual "extras" should not be overlooked.
    morgano Bravin: mmmmm
    Calvino Rabeni: What do you mean by primary gua, morgano?
    arabella Ella: that is really deep
    arabella Ella: Calvino's text i mean
    Calvino Rabeni: I got that from the web a http://www.psychic-revelation.com/reference/i_l/i_ching/hexagram50.html
    arabella Ella: wow amazing
    morgano Bravin: well,,at first there were only a few gua
    Calvino Rabeni: the i ching is very popular, there are lots of interpretations
    Calvino Rabeni: none is correct
    Calvino Rabeni: or all of them are
    Calvino Rabeni: It can be approached more analytically or more intuitively
    Calvino Rabeni: but it is not like reading a book with precise descriptions
    Calvino Rabeni: more like looking for general patterns
    Calvino Rabeni: and a lot of them are natural
    Calvino Rabeni: meaning, things that nature likes to do
    Calvino Rabeni: very obvious things like, water collects in low places, but evaporates eventually
    Calvino Rabeni: the origins of the system were based on obsevation of the the natural world and its phenomena
    morgano Bravin: yea
    Calvino Rabeni: using those observations as metaphors for human phenomena
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm still not sure about your question, Morgano?
    morgano Bravin: I find it more comforting when I find that so many intelligent people trust in the iching,,it gives me some confidence that perhaps there is something to be gleaned from it
    Calvino Rabeni: It is basically a map for organizing peoples thinking into the general phenomena of the world, in a systematic way - like saying, remember to consider a variety of layers and influences and structures to what is happening
    Calvino Rabeni: It's like a more complex version (much more) of saying "look at the other side of the coin"
    arabella Ella: ah
    morgano Bravin: perhaps bringing order from chaos?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, or seeing the order that is inside chaos
    Calvino Rabeni: Like when meditating in nature
    Calvino Rabeni: at first it doesn't make any sense
    Calvino Rabeni: and then more and more "emerges"
    morgano Bravin: as with any computer,,it isnt intelligent,,but it munches through masses of imput,,maybe this is similar to the iching
    Calvino Rabeni: An organizational scheme - an index or access language
    Calvino Rabeni: The I Ching is the "book of changes"
    Calvino Rabeni: the diagrams are referencing the world
    arabella Ella: aa very clever one though based on lots of reflection and dedication
    morgano Bravin: codex? whats that?
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't know what codex means
    Calvino Rabeni: embedded in the diagram are the four "elements"
    morgano Bravin: sounds good
    Calvino Rabeni: which really represent states of matter/energy
    Calvino Rabeni: at the bottom is earth, at the top air, at the left, fire, at the right, water
    arabella Ella: and is there not a mountain too in th e i ching?
    Calvino Rabeni: those were not physicall matter elements, but states of organization of the behavior of matter
    arabella Ella: mountains and fires?
    Calvino Rabeni: the mountain is between water and earth
    morgano Bravin: has it ever been said that water is associated with life,,in iching circles?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not sure if that wheel looks the same to everyone here
    morgano Bravin: even representing the animal kingdom including humanity?
    Calvino Rabeni: but now it is in its canonical position, with earth at the bottom
    arabella Ella: in what way Cal are you asking whether it looks the same?
    Calvino Rabeni: I turned the wheel to give the diagram its standard position
    arabella Ella: ok yes i see
    arabella Ella: three broken lines at the bottom
    arabella Ella: three unbroken lines at the top
    Calvino Rabeni: the order of rotation is sequencing clockwise
    morgano Bravin: mmm yes
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    morgano Bravin: i see that
    arabella Ella: i think i still would very much like to know how No. 50 relates to my question
    Calvino Rabeni: so there's earth, then next is thunder - then fire, then lake, then heaven, then wind, then water, then mountain, then earth again
    arabella Ella: (my private question of course)
    arabella Ella: clockwise?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes clockwise ordering of the sequence of trigrams
    Calvino Rabeni: in that diagram
    morgano Bravin: can u repeat the question Ara?
    arabella Ella: i asked Calvino whether his statement concerning earth, etc, explaining the triagrams took them as being clockwise
    arabella Ella: and he said yes
    morgano Bravin: sorry, i meant re 50?
    Calvino Rabeni: I said they sequence clockwise in this wheel diagram
    arabella Ella: oh about no. 50
    arabella Ella: i asked
    arabella Ella: whether there could be more detail (am re-phrasing now)
    arabella Ella: so i could perhaps relate No. 50 more to my initial question
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm sorry, I'll have to go in about 5 minutes ...
    Calvino Rabeni: go on though?
    arabella Ella: oh
    morgano Bravin: 50,,is establishing the new..supreme good fortune,,prosperous and smoothe,,maybe even,,the superior person rectifying his position
    arabella Ella: ah very appropriate for my question
    arabella Ella: thanks morgano :)
    morgano Bravin: my pleasure
    morgano Bravin: :)
    arabella Ella: i guess i must go get some sleep too soon
    arabella Ella: as it is very late here now
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, it means, as I see it, recognizing where one's values come from in the earth, and then "cooking" or preparing them - meaning one's internal process of holding things and giving them importance, and then releasing that to the world as "nourishment" ... it is a very giving metaphor, and very social
    morgano Bravin: could be rectifying her position,,i know you are sensitive to this
    arabella Ella: but thank you so much Calvino this has been interesting and so unexpected
    morgano Bravin: :)
    morgano Bravin: thanks Cal,,very interesting tonite
    Calvino Rabeni: YW Ara and Morgano - thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: Good fortune :)
    Calvino Rabeni: take care, bye :))
    morgano Bravin: yeaaaa
    arabella Ella: good fortune to you too TC
    morgano Bravin: bye Cal
    arabella Ella: and thanks again :)
    arabella Ella: bye morgano gtg now too
    arabella Ella: and thanks for your precious input too :)
    morgano Bravin: bye bye ara,,take care
    morgano Bravin: :)

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