2010.10.10 19:00 - Tao and Nature

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Karencreek Melson: that is the lm to my land
    Karencreek Melson: they have discussion here every 6 hours
    Karencreek Melson: moderated by someone
    Pila Mulligan: hi
    Karencreek Melson: Hi
    Pila Mulligan: hi Cal
    viden Urvilan: hi cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Pila, and Karen, viden, Steve too :)
    viden Urvilan: and Pila
    Karencreek Melson: Hi all
    Pila Mulligan: nice to meet you, viden and Karencreek
    viden Urvilan: thnaks
    Pila Mulligan: hi stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    stevenaia Michinaga: Paradise had been taking me shopping...smiles
    Karencreek Melson: smiles
    Pila Mulligan: is she coming tonite?
    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t know
    Pila Mulligan: I saw her earlier and she said she might be here
    Calvino Rabeni: I can see the resemblance steve, that looks like a dres from paradises's favorite designer
    stevenaia Michinaga: waas washing her dog earlier, don;t know how long such things take
    Pila Mulligan: how long it takes may depend on the dog
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, let;s hope we won;t be wearing the same dress, that would be a travesty
    Calvino Rabeni: The session chat recorder is on now ... does everyone know that the chats here are recorded on the group's wiki page?
    Pila Mulligan: I just noticed the Ba Gua image you made, Cal -- nice
    Karencreek Melson: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: If that is not OK with you, let me know
    viden Urvilan: what will we discuss?
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks
    Pila Mulligan: Cal has a very sophisticated analysis of the Ba Gua
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Pila I brought it to the earlier session
    Calvino Rabeni: and did a short description of my interpretations
    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
    Calvino Rabeni: ah, Paradise, welcome
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: is that session in the posted chat logs yet, Cal?
    Paradise Tennant: hiya cal .. pila steve .. viden .. karen :)
    Karencreek Melson: Hi
    viden Urvilan: hello paradise
    Pila Mulligan: ... just checked the wiki, it isnot thee yet
    Pila Mulligan: *not there
    stevenaia Michinaga: what was the discussion?
    stevenaia Michinaga: the summation
    Pila Mulligan: let's discuss it some more :)
    Calvino Rabeni: the second half was about the I Ching as a scientific system (which is my viewpoint) ... Pila here is better with its history and literature I think
    viden Urvilan: at work.. gotta run

    Pila Mulligan: bye viden
    viden Urvilan: TC all
    Paradise Tennant: bye viden :)
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise if you sit beside me we will have the symmetry Wol so appreciates here
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yea
    Paradise Tennant: smiles .. wol will be happy then :)
    Paradise Tennant: we are talking of iching ?
    Pila Mulligan: I think so
    Pila Mulligan: seeing Cal's Ba Gua symbol led to it
    Pila Mulligan: behind him
    Paradise Tennant: yes was admiring it :)
    Paradise Tennant: very cool
    Calvino Rabeni: That wheel is calld the bagua or 8-symbol diagram
    Pila Mulligan: there was a classical split in I Ching analsysis between Confucian and Taoist schools
    Pila Mulligan: Cal is more Taoist
    Pila Mulligan: if I may be so bold :)
    Calvino Rabeni: if you click on it twice, waiting a bit, it states two trigrams
    Paradise Tennant: smiles )
    Calvino Rabeni: which you can interpret as a hexagram
    Paradise Tennant: cool
    Pila Mulligan: cool, Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: but one with no changing lines
    Calvino Rabeni: lake orver heaven
    Pila Mulligan: 43
    Calvino Rabeni: That's an exciting one
    stevenaia Michinaga: was reading about that today actualy, I picked up a book on Dao history at the Kubla Kahn exihibit saw yesterday
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at steve and envys his ready access to the met
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Pila is more interestied in I think, the confucian readings
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: which are about family structures in part
    Calvino Rabeni: I see it more primally, as a science of the phenomena of nature
    Pila Mulligan: much as you said earlier -- scientific system vs history and literature
    Calvino Rabeni: which I suppose is more daoist
    Calvino Rabeni: right
    Paradise Tennant: did one just now came out 10 then 30 ..walking then brillance :) always find it a useful creative thinking tool in a way :)
    Pila Mulligan: particularly the Taoist Numbers and Symbols School
    Pila Mulligan: nice Paradise
    Calvino Rabeni: during the session at 1pm however, we also did talk about the use for contemplation
    Pila Mulligan: 10 is the ninverse of 43 by the way
    Calvino Rabeni: which I think is independent a bit of other topics
    Calvino Rabeni: 23 is a different kind of inverse
    Calvino Rabeni: but 10 would be I'd say, an inverse of perspectives
    Calvino Rabeni: 23 an inverse of process
    Calvino Rabeni: Pila, what do you make of the significance of the upper versus the lower trigrams?
    Pila Mulligan: well, the six positions are given attributes
    Pila Mulligan: so the attributes necessarily derive from the upper and lower positions
    Pila Mulligan: I also see a kind up primacy to the upper gua
    Pila Mulligan: like 10 and 43
    Calvino Rabeni: there's one view that the six lines are a smooth progression between lower and higher
    Pila Mulligan: tui and chien trade places there
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: and another that the trigrams represent more manifest versus invisible aspects of a situation,
    Calvino Rabeni: or like the content and the context
    Calvino Rabeni: like the visible and invisible aspects
    Calvino Rabeni: but I tend to allow for flexibility about this
    Calvino Rabeni: for example the lower might be "you" and the upper "your outer situation"
    Pila Mulligan: well, 10 for example has an image of treading on the tail of a tiger -- the youngest daughter above the father in that case, kind of relevant :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Or the lower "self" and the upper "society"
    Pila Mulligan: hi Hana
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes the 6 lines might be like levels in the "great chain of being"
    Paradise Tennant: is mesmerized by alternately by steve's shimmery finery and the spinning wheel of change :)
    Calvino Rabeni: the tradition ascribes some similar hierarchies
    Pila Mulligan: while the inverse of 10, 43, has the imagery of being alert to danger, there the father above the youngest duaghter, again telling
    Hana Furlough: Hi Steve, Cal, Muse, Pila, Para
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: giving different levels of wisdom to the lines
    Paradise Tennant: hiya hana gtsy :)
    Hana Furlough: Yeah, you look amazing Steve
    Calvino Rabeni: another interpretation is they represent how far a process has progressed
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Hana
    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t mean to distract from the conversation....batting eyes
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: HEHE, the easel picture just rezzed in
    Hana Furlough: lol
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: "Free Bruce!"
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, poor trapped bruce
    Hana Furlough: why free bruce?

    Calvino Rabeni: Bruce somehow got "stuck" in second life
    Paradise Tennant: our Bruce ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I've never heard it happening before ...?
    Karencreek Melson: it happens
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes - our Bruce ...
    Hana Furlough: what does it mean to be "stuck" in SL?
    Karencreek Melson: people get stuck in the southeast corner of a sim
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe a sim restart will "free"him
    Karencreek Melson: by the server
    Karencreek Melson: thats where is actually puts all the avi
    Karencreek Melson: on a sim
    stevenaia Michinaga: I've been there but only for a few moment
    Karencreek Melson: a person can get trapped in memory there
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Hana Furlough: wow
    Hana Furlough: that's crazy
    Karencreek Melson: and not be able to log in
    Karencreek Melson: because the system has them logged in as a ghost
    stevenaia Michinaga: he was experimenting with new viewers recently
    Calvino Rabeni: Chock that up for another entry to "1001 weird things that can happen to you in Second Life"
    Hana Furlough: Is B still stuck?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Karencreek Melson: should have the sim restrated the region he was in
    Hana Furlough: Oh no... is there anything that can be done?
    Karencreek Melson: clean him out
    Karencreek Melson: hehe
    Paradise Tennant: smiles ..so .. to ask a basic question .. how exactly does the iching work as a predictive or contemplative system .. :) blinking
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: In the 1pm session when we rolled the wheel, we came up with hexagram 50, sometimes called the Cauldron
    Pila Mulligan: darned if I know
    Calvino Rabeni: That's a fair answer
    Karencreek Melson: ???
    Pila Mulligan: it works to assist contemplation the way any poetry or verse may help, but it is the predictive part that is hard to understand
    Karencreek Melson: what comes to one
    Karencreek Melson: depends on they are open to it
    Calvino Rabeni: but another is, that reality is complex and multidimensional, and we forget that, and the I Ching suggests ... have you looked at *this* aspect of it recently?
    Pila Mulligan: true
    Hana Furlough: Cal, that's amazing
    stevenaia Michinaga: it works as a "wack on the side of the head" works, who know why we are stuck, but this is a tool to get unstuck
    Calvino Rabeni: Basically the I Ching is a map or model to represent all the possible situations of change in a schematic way
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, what Cal said
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at steve and gives the side of his head a little rub :) ouch
    Calvino Rabeni: It's like "this coin has two sides" ... but more complex :)
    Calvino Rabeni: everyone knows, well, the coin has another side
    Paradise Tennant: so a probability system of some sort
    Calvino Rabeni: the I ching says, maybe it has 64 sides
    Calvino Rabeni: and our minds *love* to match up ideas and reality and construct a likely story
    Karencreek Melson: that is how we create meaningfulness
    stevenaia Michinaga: a good # but why 64, although it has interesting binary characteristics
    Calvino Rabeni: it is arbitray
    Karencreek Melson: that leads to new meaning
    Calvino Rabeni: arbitrary
    Paradise Tennant: interesting binary characteristics can you say more :)
    Calvino Rabeni: there's nothing significant about the 64 in my opinion
    Hana Furlough: what is arbitrary, cal?
    Hana Furlough: oh gotcha
    Calvino Rabeni: It is like, reality is a pie, and you can slice it however you like
    Calvino Rabeni: this is just a certain way to slice it
    Karencreek Melson: any way one slices it is valid
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, because it is really an undivided whole
    Karencreek Melson: just a question of how useful that slice
    Karencreek Melson: is
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: it is like the concept of measuring, and a number line
    stevenaia Michinaga: so it is really a tool for the mind
    Calvino Rabeni: put together numbers, and the idea of a line, and .... *measurement* is possible
    Pila Mulligan: numerically, 64 comes from all the possible combinations of the ba (8) gua -- 8 x 8
    Calvino Rabeni: but the number scale is kind of irrelevant
    stevenaia Michinaga: for meaning
    Karencreek Melson: numbers are not words
    Karencreek Melson: but we feel the same way about therm

    Calvino Rabeni: But there's also something much more embodied or "natural " about the symbols of the I Ching
    Calvino Rabeni: they talk about situations or primal forms in the world
    Calvino Rabeni: not just arbitrary geometric ideas
    Karencreek Melson: they were born out of being
    Paradise Tennant: wonders at the primal forms :)
    Calvino Rabeni: like lakes, mountains, fire
    Karencreek Melson: they would
    Calvino Rabeni: water, wind
    Paradise Tennant: so much of life is almost beyond imagining
    Calvino Rabeni: and different behaviors of matter and its structures
    Karencreek Melson: its there if one is open to it
    Karencreek Melson: too much to take in
    Karencreek Melson: but there
    Calvino Rabeni: It is one of the things I like about the I Ching, that it invites us to take Nature as our teacher
    Calvino Rabeni: and learn by looking around at the world and contemplating how it works
    Hana Furlough: yeah that's really nice
    Calvino Rabeni: so it is pointing to an organic unity
    Hana Furlough: not controlling things, learning how to flow
    Calvino Rabeni: and saying it has intrinsic structure, or Tao involved
    Calvino Rabeni: structure or process
    Calvino Rabeni: So in a way, it tries to carve reality at the joints
    Calvino Rabeni: to use a Daoist story as a metaphor
    Karencreek Melson: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts
    Karencreek Melson: being at one with what is
    Karencreek Melson: it total
    Karencreek Melson: and peace
    Karencreek Melson: is
    Karencreek Melson: darn keyborad
    Karencreek Melson: :-)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at karen :)
    Hana Furlough: a fantastic daoist story it is
    Karencreek Melson: I am enjoying following your trains of thought
    Karencreek Melson: but have no reference
    Calvino Rabeni: You might say, mathematics doesn't so much carve nature at the joints, but into little squares and cubes
    Karencreek Melson: to the terms
    Karencreek Melson: so I will take my leave of you good folks
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll try to find it, it is a Chuang Tzu story about a cook
    Paradise Tennant: hmm it does more than that
    Pila Mulligan: bye Karen
    Paradise Tennant: it elegantly .. linking relationships
    Calvino Rabeni: and how his knife always stayed sharp because he didn't go against the grain
    Karencreek Melson: may peace be with you
    Paradise Tennant: math is beauty ..
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for joining us Karen
    Hana Furlough: bye karen
    Paradise Tennant: good nite karen namaste :)
    Hana Furlough: do you want me to copy in the link to the story, cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you have it handy?
    Calvino Rabeni: sure
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes pls
    Calvino Rabeni: It's one of my favorites
    Hana Furlough: yeah, and it's a good translation
    Calvino Rabeni: along with "The Fasting of the Heart"
    Calvino Rabeni: another one I love
    Hana Furlough: i don't know "the fasting of the heart"
    Hana Furlough: what is that?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll see if I can find it - there are different titles
    Calvino Rabeni: IT is about dealing with a seemingly impossible situation
    Calvino Rabeni: Here it is titled "This Human World" http://www.personaltao.com/tao/chuang_tzu.htm#HUMAN
    Hana Furlough: [Here's the cook story]:
    Hana Furlough: "Cook Ting was cutting up an ox for Lord Wen-hui. At every touch of his hand, every heave of his shoulder, every move of his feet, every thrust of his knee-zip! zoop! He slithered the knife along with a zing, and all was in perfect rhythm, as though he were performing the dance of the Mulberry Grove or keeping time to the Ching-shou music. ??? "Cook Ting laid down his knife and [said], 'What I care about is the Way, which goes beyond all skill. When I first began cutting up oxen, all I could see was the ox itself. After three years I no longer saw the whole ox. And now-now I go at it by spirit and don't look with my eyes. Perception and understanding have come to a stop and spirit moves where it wants. I go along with the natural makeup, strike in the big hollows, guide the knife through the big openings, and follow things as they are. So I never touch the smallest ligament or tendon, much less a main joint. "A good cook changes his knife once a year-because he cuts.
    Hana Furlough: "A good cook changes his knife once a year-because he cuts. A mediocre cook changes his knife once a month-because he hacks. I've had this knife of mine for nineteen years and I've cut up thousands of oxen with it, and yet the blade is as good as though it had just come from the grindstone. There are spaces between the joints, and the blade of the knife has really no thickness. If you insert what has no thickness into such spaces, then there's plenty of room-more than enough for the blade to play about it. That's why after nineteen years the blade of my knife is still as good as when it first came from the grindstone." (Basic Writings, p.46-47)
    Hana Furlough: http://www.udel.edu/Philosophy/afox/zhuangzi.htm
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes that's very nice
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: The other story "This Human World" was interesting because it made "nondoing" or wu-wei into a truly life-or-death matter
    Calvino Rabeni: Very dramatic :)
    Paradise Tennant: nods yes ..
    Hana Furlough: very nice
    Calvino Rabeni: It reminds me of one of the Castaneda books in which the students go into the service of different Tyrants to test their capacities
    Calvino Rabeni: another kind of metaphor

    Paradise Tennant: likes the mist .. sometimes in the 90 sec breaks I visualize myself dissolving into the mist :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It resonates a bit with a recent discussion we had here with Bruce - whether "reality" can be considered "benign", or NOT.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, ... is it "safe" to dissolve? :)
    Hana Furlough: good idea, para
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, like your puzzle picture
    Hana Furlough: i will try it
    Paradise Tennant: kind of the out look you take to it
    Hana Furlough: i have to run
    Hana Furlough: wonderful talking to you all
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Hana
    Calvino Rabeni: Take xare Hana, good to see you
    Hana Furlough: good night
    Paradise Tennant: good nite hana
    Paradise Tennant: namaste
    Pila Mulligan: bye Hana
    Paradise Tennant: hmm well what do we define as reality that is not .. a thought projection
    stevenaia Michinaga: conciousness?
    Pila Mulligan: illusion could be defined as not reality
    stevenaia Michinaga: conciousness is a realiity that is dificult to define
    Calvino Rabeni: I've lost all distinction about that word ... what is it supposed to mean?
    Paradise Tennant: nods ..
    Calvino Rabeni: It seems it just asks one to play favorites with theories
    Calvino Rabeni: How many different ways of being "real" might there be?
    Pila Mulligan: but isn't playing favorites with theories a fair description of life?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, perhaps it is
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at pila yes i think so
    Calvino Rabeni: except it is done in so many ways
    Paradise Tennant: we adapt .. mix and match .. whatever it takes to get us through this dream :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: the mutitude of perspectives on things is what gives us such a rich reality
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Paradise Tennant: yes like somehow we can pick up on the constructs of all the consciousness
    Paradise Tennant: why it is diverse ..
    Paradise Tennant: surprising sometimes
    stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps it is our own creative processed that define reality
    Pila Mulligan: or our interests, to get back to Don Juan
    Calvino Rabeni: What if I were to say - rather ask - the question - Do you have an offering for the next PlayAsBeing Session - and invite your contribution?
    Calvino Rabeni: What could we do with that?
    stevenaia Michinaga: offering? you mean a subject?
    stevenaia Michinaga: topic?
    Calvino Rabeni: It's obviously (a) possible, and (b) in need of being defined by you
    Calvino Rabeni: See that's the question
    Calvino Rabeni: what is it to you?
    Calvino Rabeni: Suppose I say, it is up to you, but really choose wisely acccording to your own understanding
    Paradise Tennant: i would pick imagination .. as a cauldron .. a bubbling pot .. that .. forments :)))
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww, any of the above
    Calvino Rabeni: then you engage in a creative act
    Calvino Rabeni: and it might have real consequences in the world, however subtle
    Paradise Tennant: well every thought you have as a consequence ..it changes you
    Calvino Rabeni: That is an idea that came to me from contemplating Hexagram 50, the Cauldron, as it came up at the 1pm session
    Paradise Tennant: why thinking should come with a guide and rule book :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: Ingeneral true, Paradise, but ... some more than others perhaps?
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Calvino Rabeni: Tha's a great one, I love it Paradise

    Pila Mulligan: "The daily world exists because we know how to hold its images; consequently, if one drops the attention needed to maintain those images, the world collapses."
    Paradise Tennant: sigh
    Pila Mulligan: from Don Juan, Second Ring of Power
    Paradise Tennant: hmm going to have to reread that
    Calvino Rabeni: I had one in mind too ... and it might be seen as related ... which is ... why is "not knowing" hard to jump into, and what do we offer others by our "cooking"
    Pila Mulligan: we offer others our interests :)
    Calvino Rabeni: The cauldron image has a nice abundance to it
    Paradise Tennant: hmm think our brains link
    Paradise Tennant: sure of it
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, night all
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve, nice to see oyu
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Paradise Tennant: can be trying to work out a problem and having someone near just helps
    Calvino Rabeni: stevenaia
    Paradise Tennant: good nite steve :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves at the shimmery flash of colour
    Calvino Rabeni: having someone near ... yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I've been noticing the difference between solo meditations and those with other peopel
    Paradise Tennant: more powerful with other people
    Pila Mulligan: a gestalt
    Calvino Rabeni: and it feels like there's a "field" created or tapped
    Calvino Rabeni: afterwards I feel actually different about the others
    Calvino Rabeni: and maybe just a little more intelligent somehow
    Calvino Rabeni: amazing how that works
    Paradise Tennant: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it seems also, it helps for the "parts" to show up and be present
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And the "whole" probably likes it
    Paradise Tennant: smiles yes
    Pila Mulligan: Frtiz Perls said the gestalt phenomenon was enhanced when the parts were diverse
    Pila Mulligan: more greater :)
    Paradise Tennant: yin and yang
    Paradise Tennant: dark and light
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, if there's the ability to allow for the dynamic tension within the larger gestalt field
    Calvino Rabeni: It seems to me gestalt is about being with that tension
    Calvino Rabeni: in part, of course
    Calvino Rabeni: Pila, did you have an involvement with gestalt or with perls?
    Paradise Tennant: shall we do a mediation ?
    Pila Mulligan: to me a gestalt is analogous to an orgasm, the tension builds up to a moment of greaterness and repose
    Pila Mulligan: yes, some
    Pila Mulligan: yes to both
    Calvino Rabeni: I like both these opposite ideas :)
    Calvino Rabeni: the meditation and the tension
    Pila Mulligan: 5 miuntes
    Calvino Rabeni: well, personally, I'd like to do a short meditation, then I will have to go
    Paradise Tennant: okies
    Calvino Rabeni: that sounds just right
    Pila Mulligan: shall we stop at 8:330 SLt then
    Pila Mulligan: 8:33*
    Calvino Rabeni: ok
    Paradise Tennant: ok
    Paradise Tennant: do you want to gong :)
    Pila Mulligan: ** gong **
    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Pila Mulligan: ** un-gong ** :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Pila Mulligan: thanks, nice idea Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: I was visualizing breathing in the conmingled consciousness and then breathing out peace
    Calvino Rabeni smiles
    Paradise Tennant: felt really nice
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks
    Pila Mulligan: Cal, a freind-neighor here was an associate of Fritz Perls at Esalen
    Calvino Rabeni: That's interesting to have that connection
    Pila Mulligan: yep ... same fellow also wasa freindof ALan Watts :)
    Calvino Rabeni: nice
    Paradise Tennant: wow
    Calvino Rabeni: well, we have some bakground ...
    Pila Mulligan: hi Mitiz
    Paradise Tennant: hiya mitzi ..gtsy :)))))
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Mitzi
    Paradise Tennant: big smile
    Calvino Rabeni: I was just saying I had to leave .. maybe I can BRB in 10 minutes - I'd like to chat
    Calvino Rabeni: How are you?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi all ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: A bit stressed ... have a big deadline tonight/tomorrow ... but I wanted to connect
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I just got a new computer and excited to try out a much more high-res version of SL
    Pila Mulligan: a Big Monday, eh
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: It's very awesome!
    Pila Mulligan: nice :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: *Envy* -- mine is SO SLOOOOW
    Pila Mulligan: mine also is antique
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, I'll just leave my avatar sitting here a while - acting dumb :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Ohh, this is so great ... it's more of a "flow" experience now
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'll stay for a short while ... nice to be here.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: What did I miss so far ... what topics came up?
    Paradise Tennant: we covered a broad range
    Pila Mulligan: what's your big event Mitzi, if you care to say
    Paradise Tennant: iching
    Paradise Tennant: gestalt
    Pila Mulligan: reality
    Paradise Tennant: did a short meditation
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh, launching a new version of website for a cool, buddhist oriented non profit (don't want to say their name publically) - I'm a web designer
    Pila Mulligan: sounds cool
    Pila Mulligan: what software do you use?
    Paradise Tennant: way cool :)
    Pila Mulligan: I was recently introduced to Joomla (not being an up-to-date person with website design)
    Pila Mulligan: it seems pretty adept
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: WordPress! Year long learning curve finally beginning to pay off
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: But ... I'm here to change my mental map for a bit ...
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: what else is on your mind ...?
    Pila Mulligan: well, reality was a recent dish on the buffet
    Pila Mulligan: [20:05] Paradise Tennant: hmm well what do we define as reality that is not .. a thought projection
    Pila Mulligan: [20:07] stevenaia Michinaga: conciousness is a realiity that is dificult to define

    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I've heard the distinction "real" versus "actual"
    Pila Mulligan: [20:07] Calvino Rabeni: How many different ways of being "real" might there be?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I would respond to that inquiry ... an infinite number ...
    Pila Mulligan: yes, actual as in evidenced
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yes.
    Pila Mulligan: I am persuaded by evidence also
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: By that token, there would just be an arbitary distinction between real and unreal.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I am persuaded as well. That's why I love science, I like feeling that there are "nuggets" of something quasi solid beneath all this shifting sand that is our daily experience.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles wonders at the nuggets
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Reminds me of tapioca ...
    Pila Mulligan: including a round planet
    Paradise Tennant: maybe not so nuggety :)
    Pila Mulligan: or fairly round at least
    Paradise Tennant: everything shifts
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... little tiny harder globules in a softer, more fluid medium
    Pila Mulligan: plate tectonics :)
    Paradise Tennant: heres to harder globules :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: On NPR they were speaking of the surprising lumpiness of the earth ...
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and gravity is lumpy too it seems
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: or accurate assessment of the fuzziness or hardness of the globules such as they may be in actuality!
    Paradise Tennant: hmm thought there was very little real matter in the universe we are mostly air just like a our avatars :)
    Pila Mulligan: did you see Noam Chomsky will be interviewed in SL on Tuesday Mitzi?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: No ... what's he up to recently?
    Pila Mulligan: http://www.metanomics.net/show/october_12_noam_chomsky_appears_on_metanomics/
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: On in SL! I'm not a particular fan of Noam myself
    Pila Mulligan: me either, but it should be interesting noetheless
    Pila Mulligan: and it also will be available by simultaneous video on their website
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I like his fiestiness though
    Pila Mulligan: I'm curious to see how well it works
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Paradise Tennant: fiesty is good ..like my reality fiesty :)
    Pila Mulligan: I rememebr seeing a 1969 debate between Chomsky and William F. Buckley
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: so much more engaging
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ha! that must have been fiesty!
    Pila Mulligan: http://ashujo.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/chomsky-vs-buckley-one-of-the-best-documentaries/ -- a WordPress site :)
    Pila Mulligan: I could never quite take Buckley's attitude
    Calvino Rabeni: That is a famous interview
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Calvino Rabeni: a little like Mumammed Ali and Howard Cosell - its in the video greatest hits
    Pila Mulligan: :) Cal, did you see Noam Chomsky will be interviewed in SL on Tuesday
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: may he rest in peace. He does make current conservative commentators look like Neaderthals
    Pila Mulligan: true Mitzi
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes I heard ... quite a buzz going about it
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi Cal are you back?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yep
    Pila Mulligan: note URL above in chat log about it
    Pila Mulligan: at 20:49
    Calvino Rabeni: Does anyone here know how a spider weaves a web? realized I don't know the construction method they use.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Pila Mulligan: very advanced engineering, them
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I hear they do the spokes first ... then they begin in the middle and spiral outward to do the cross-strokes, and can go very rapidly.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Is that the kind of "how" you had in mind?
    Paradise Tennant: Three simple forms of web can be recognized. The sheet web, the orb web and the spatial web. The most well known form is the orb web. How is this web constructed? The most difficult part is the construction of the first thread. This is a sturdy horizontal thread on which the rest of the web is hanging. How does the spider connect this thread between the two connecting points? She can not fly. Does she connect a thread at one place, walk down with an enrolling thread behind her to the other side where pulls the thread horizontal and connects it? No, the answer is simpler. She makes use of the wind and some luck.
    Calvino Rabeni: They *somehow* make a big flat plane of cross wires, then *somehow* know to make a big circle around it, ... then they sprial in from that circle, following their previous thread all the way to the center
    Paradise Tennant: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ednieuw/Spiders/InfoNed/webthread.html
    Calvino Rabeni smiles ... ask and ye shall receive
    Paradise Tennant: The wind carries a thin adhesive thread released from her spinners while making the thread longer and longer. If she is lucky the thread sticks to a proper spot. Then she walks carefully over the thread, strengthening it with a second thread. This is repeated until the primary thread is strong enough. After this, she hangs a thread in the form of a Y below the primary thread. These are the first three radial of the web. More radials are constructed taking care that the distance between the radial is small enough to cross. Then non-sticky circular construction spirals are made. The web is completed when the adhesive spiral threads are placed. While the sticky spirals are placed the non-sticky spirals are removed. Not every web is constructed in this way; a lot of variations are possible. The web on the pictures above has an inverted Y that was connected to an electrical wire 10 meters higher. Besides the orb webs other catching web designs are used. A particular one is that of the net-casting spider Deino

    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Pila Mulligan: I've had nice meditaitons watching spiders build a web
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Was that spider question apropos of another concept, Calvino?
    Calvino Rabeni: Just the general theme of how much we are content to not-know, under some circumstances... maybe I was watching some kittens and their ferocious curiosity
    Calvino Rabeni: And, we were talkng about nature meditation in conjunction with the I Ching at 1PM session
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ah!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I would have enjoyed that topic.
    Calvino Rabeni: and noting how at first nothing shows, then there is confusion, then the details slowly are revealed
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes ... form emerging from the mist.
    Calvino Rabeni: Right
    Calvino Rabeni: staring into the fog
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: You missed my "tapioca" analogy.
    Paradise Tennant: one of my best mediations was lying flat on a rock in a forest in the rain watching the rain form a puddle on my stomach . :)))
    Calvino Rabeni: part of the fearsome thing about "not knowing" and contemplation
    Calvino Rabeni: The Taoists having a particular affinity for water
    Calvino Rabeni: because once you start looking at it ....
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: well it gets rather strange :)
    Calvino Rabeni: and has all kinds of structures appearing and disappearing
    Paradise Tennant: stranger than life ....
    Calvino Rabeni: oddly it is completly flexible but not at all compressible
    Paradise Tennant: smiles likes that about water
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: oooh ... that is wondrous to contemplate
    Pila Mulligan: and it chnages states quite easily -- liquid to solid or gas
    Paradise Tennant: whatever the situation calls for :)
    Paradise Tennant: have alwasy chosen to live near it .. ..something about how it always is changing ..
    Calvino Rabeni: and it makes such evocative sounds
    Calvino Rabeni: that we even like a recording of it here in second life
    Calvino Rabeni: to sit by a simulation of a stream, and listen to a recording of real water
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... very poetic Calvino, re: water. It is truly the element of life.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: My lovelies ... I must depart to attend to various matters ... it's been nice to connect though, even though short ....
    Paradise Tennant: hhmm yes so nice to fall asleep to surf .. or wake up to rain drumming on the roof .. particularly if you do not have to go out in it
    Pila Mulligan: bye Mitzi, good luck with your grand opening
    Calvino Rabeni: As it is right now .. rain drumming on a flat roof
    Paradise Tennant: good nite mitzi :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Good everning all ...
    Paradise Tennant: nice to have seen you even if for a short time :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll go too ... thanks and good evening everyone
    Paradise Tennant: well I guess I should go too
    Paradise Tennant: staying up late because tomorrow is a holiday
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Paradise Tennant: but it is getting late :)
    Paradise Tennant: namaste cal
    Calvino Rabeni: namaste, good bye
    Pila Mulligan: 'night Cal, thanks for the evnieng
    Paradise Tennant: thank you for both for a great session
    Calvino Rabeni: YW
    Calvino Rabeni: take care
    Paradise Tennant: good night pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Paradise, thanks also to you
    Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves at you from a very long way away :)
    Pila Mulligan: :) just a few thousand miles :)

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