2010.10.15 07:00 - The Radiant Blessing of Love

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    The Guardian for this meeting following the Time Session, was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza, joined by Zen and Bruce and Druth and Aphrodite. :)


    Zen Arado: bye Fef
    druth Vlodovic: cya fef
    Fefonz Quan: Bye all
    Eliza Madrigal: Excellent session....Bye Fef and Thanks
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Zen Arado: yes - Koreans start very young
    druth Vlodovic: 16 hours a day in public school etc
    Zen Arado: maybe they will overtake - whatever 'overtake' is
    Eliza Madrigal: we do have much to learn... it isn't just about the time put in, but a sense of honor and context...
    Eliza Madrigal: of seeing a larger picture...
    druth Vlodovic: and the ability to live and enjoy life, as a motivation in itself
    Eliza Madrigal: whereas Americans tend to centralize on themselves
    Zen Arado: I remember teaching groups from power stations in India - they told me about having to learn arithmetic table up to 19 x 19
    Eliza Madrigal: being "independent" and having a specific definition/picture of what that means
    druth Vlodovic: or learning the names and capitals of every nation on earth
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, rigor in itself isn't negative.... we just have screwy standards
    Eliza Madrigal: celebrity culture, etc... as "important"

    druth Vlodovic: but maybe it is our western ability to "play" that contributes to our success

    Eliza Madrigal: but I sound like I'm on a soapbox... not the intent :) AND, as soon as I write that I think of a thousand ways what I wrote is not true
    Eliza Madrigal: Agreed Druth!
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a risk-taking in play mentality too...
    druth Vlodovic: "moderation in all things"
    Eliza Madrigal: but still important to know your lines before the spotlights go on...hehe
    Zen Arado: risk Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... a diff relation to fear perhaps...
    Zen Arado: being too playful?
    druth Vlodovic: I thought you meant neglecting the necessary
    Eliza Madrigal: not really... more context again....
    Eliza Madrigal: if we see a kind of larger picture as not just 'our' success... or 'our' play
    Eliza Madrigal: then we learn our lines because it is a contribution to the whole...

    Zen Arado: wonder if we would enjoy it so much then....
    Eliza Madrigal: yet if we worry about the whole too much, then we don't take risks...
    Eliza Madrigal: improvise :)
    Zen Arado: just enjoy what we do without looking for praise
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe east/west learning from one another is a wonderful thing :)
    Eliza Madrigal: praise has to do with timing too... many people aren't praised in their lifetimes...
    Zen Arado: really we seem to be more into Eastern widom
    Eliza Madrigal: but contribute something to the whole
    Eliza Madrigal: Not sure about that Zen
    Zen Arado: 'the evil that men do lives after them..the good is often interred with their bones '
    Eliza Madrigal: western thought is already the fishbowl water...
    Zen Arado: well - I think I am Eliza


    Zen Arado: atm anyway
    Bruce Mowbray: Although born into the Western spiritual tradtion, I turned toward the Eastern because I saw Westerns worshiping God in order to gain advantages for themselves. -- whereas Zen - and Eastern methods in general - seem to be practicing for the sake of practice, not some ulterior advantage.

    Eliza Madrigal: I guess my thinking is that eastern thought appeals because it is contrasted... whereas if/to an easterner, perhaps same
    Eliza Madrigal: so backing up... we watch the distinctness of both 'thoughts'....

    Zen Arado: ok but we might have a very pure view of Buddhism compared to how it is practised in the East
    druth Vlodovic: humans are humans, to refine human behaviour, specialize it, must be a sort of betrayal of the human psyche
    Zen Arado: yes - but cross fertilization can be advantageous
    Zen Arado: or can it?
    Zen Arado: maybe you lose from both
    Eliza Madrigal: we don't see what we don't see
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe factoring that, we appreciate both
    Zen Arado: we don't see what we don't want to see maybe

    druth Vlodovic: both east and west were developed by humanity, so mixing the two would seem to bring us closer to ourselves, that's all I meant

    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I can't tell you how strongly I was hit with sadness over Miami... found myself with tears, standing over my kitchen sink, peeling potatoes, talking to the place....
    Bruce Mowbray: Eastern methods (I'm thinking of Buddhism's "Equanimity" now - teach us to see "all of it" without preference or prejudice. . .
    Eliza Madrigal: an ignored friend who has been Good to me all along, in some ways....
    Bruce Mowbray listens to Eliza. . .
    Zen Arado: there's a song about the town where I live - make me feel the same
    Eliza Madrigal: I was ignorant of the way the place had supported me all along... going here or there caused me to realize it somehow
    Eliza Madrigal: in childhood I just rushed by of course... as a teen, taking for granted the ocean, the hidden places....
    Eliza Madrigal: it was normal :)

    Bruce Mowbray: T.S. Eliot: "To return to where we began and to see that place for the first time."

    Eliza Madrigal: YES
    Bruce Mowbray: You know -- we all do that, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: Which doesn't mean that there isn't deep appreciation for new places and views
    Bruce Mowbray: Another thought to consider might be that "neglect" can be as damaging as "abuse" -- can itself be a form of abuse. . . as in the neglect of children.

    Zen Arado: there was a nice article in Tricycle yesterday about the love that surrounds us and we don't notice
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe moreso when I appreciate 'where I am'

    Zen Arado: "That radiant blessing of love has been coming to us from the start, not just from a few people close to us, but also from many not personally known to us or people long forgotten. So many have offered themselves to us quietly, unnoticed and unremarked upon, such as those who served in our school, who coached sports for us as small children, who taught us music and clapped for us, who watched over us with kindness and care wherever we ran and played. Then there are all the adults who put loving care into their work, as our teachers, doctors, nurses, social workers, craftsmen, bakers, librarians, and waitresses. Yet we may never have noticed the extent of such care and consideration. "

    Eliza Madrigal: lovely Zen, thank you :)
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, thanks, Zen.
    Eliza Madrigal: in some ways I think I was served well by neglect...
    druth Vlodovic: it goes wider than that, I remember when I moved to go to college I'd seek out stores where the person would smile when they served me
    Eliza Madrigal: funny thing to say but this is part of what I saw.. when home as house didn't feel safe.. there was a larger wilder context I was cared for by....
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, very true Druth! That matters a lot
    Eliza Madrigal: it really matters to smile :)


    Zen Arado: sometimes it takes a crisis to bing things like this into focus - like the Chilean disaster
    Eliza Madrigal: yes when the rug is pulled out from under our 'comfort'
    Eliza Madrigal: or even something like a small injury and one for days thinks "wow, I didn't know" how much I did with my big toe! how much support was there....
    Zen Arado: my Buddhist practice makes me realize thet everything is related and I feel less 'alienated; from my environment than I used to
    Zen Arado: learning appreciation
    Eliza Madrigal: is that due to 'equanimity' Zen?
    Zen Arado: it produces more equanimity I think
    Zen Arado: don't know how to explain 'alienation'
    druth Vlodovic: a defensive reaction I'd think, danger and discomfort comes from outside so we seperate ourselves
    Eliza Madrigal: isolation...
    Zen Arado: I remember travelling through little bush towns way out in the desert in N.Queensland and the environment felt so alien to me
    Zen Arado: cos I am used to hills and greenness..
    Eliza Madrigal considering what 'practice' is...
    Zen Arado: feeling at home whereever one is?
    Eliza Madrigal: mmmm...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes that's a lovely idea...
    Eliza Madrigal: home not as a specific outside place...
    Eliza Madrigal: but as everything
    Zen Arado: like the cliche...
    Eliza Madrigal: where the heart is?
    Zen Arado: yep :)
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps home emerges from an open heart :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and I don't care how sappy that sounds.... hahah
    Zen Arado: lot of truth in cliches :)
    druth Vlodovic: :-)
    druth Vlodovic: sappy is good, an acceptance of our better natures
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen Arado: hmmm.. we would say 'soppy'
    Eliza Madrigal: like milk sop?
    Zen Arado: what's that?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, then guess not
    Zen Arado: food fro ibabies?
    Zen Arado: mkight be
    Eliza Madrigal: But though intelligent and 'good tempered', he was also something of a milksop , unlike his younger brothers who were 'full of courage'.
    Zen Arado: ah ok
    Eliza Madrigal: (from dictionary.com) :)


    druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure "milksop" is the opposite of courage, unless you use it in the context of "moma's boy"
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, something like that I guess... had never heard the term 'soppy'
    Zen Arado: hmmm...just got a message saying someone dissolved my friendship
    Eliza Madrigal: sappy is sort of like ... syrupy... too sweet...
    Zen Arado: should I ask why?
    Eliza Madrigal: in SL?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Is it someone that you haven't spoken to in a while?
    Eliza Madrigal: I didn't know people were notified when that happens...
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes people do 'cleaning'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: yes - met here but haven't seen fro about a month
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, hm... a month isn't too long
    Zen Arado: yes - not exactly a deep friendship
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a few people as friends that I only spoke to once...
    Eliza Madrigal: and seeing them sign off and on gets a bit tedious :)
    Zen Arado: yes - only spoke once I think
    druth Vlodovic: you can turn the notofications off
    Zen Arado: Twitter friends are especially fickle :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you can?
    Eliza Madrigal: that's the nature of twitter Zen :)
    druth Vlodovic: it's hard to find but it is possible
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, making note...
    Zen Arado: still feel a bit hurt ...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen Arado: wonder if I did something wrong
    Eliza Madrigal: :::pats Zen on the back::: there, there...
    Zen Arado: said the wrong thing
    Zen Arado: :(
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure not...
    Eliza Madrigal: if they'd been offended by you, wouldn't have kept you on for a month

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite!
    Zen Arado: Hi Aphro :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Aph!
    Eliza Madrigal: Tell us how your travels are going?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Tomorrow I return home
    Eliza Madrigal: How does that feel?
    Aphrodite Macbain: tired but happy
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    druth Vlodovic: my advice is to let it go, trying to talk to somone who dropped you is an exercise is personal annoyance
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have eaten too much good food and will have to starve myself for a week
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: just take long walks :)
    Zen Arado: think you're right Druth
    Eliza Madrigal needs to do the same
    Zen Arado: Italian food reputed to be great
    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry - I've dropped in on an important conversation
    Zen Arado: no it's ok Aphro
    Aphrodite Macbain: more important than pasta
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Zen Arado: pasta much more important :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure what I eat is called... Italian-like, food... or...
    Eliza Madrigal: Well Pasta is comfort food
    Eliza Madrigal: which is what Zen needs now :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry you're having a bad time Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: he's feeling the sting (albeit small) of attachment
    Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe I can cook you some tagliatelli
    Zen Arado: no - just a friend I only met once just dropped me
    Bruce Mowbray: It comes with the package called "immersive."
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm one of those, too.
    Aphrodite Macbain: how strange. that's happened to me too. surprising how much it hurts
    Zen Arado: easier to cook than spell :)
    Eliza Madrigal: tagliatelli....mmmm... that might fix everything for sure
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    druth Vlodovic: I had a "friend" I hadn't talked to in 6 months, so I removed her just to shorten the list, the same day I met her again
    Aphrodite Macbain: especially with the sauce I've learned to cook!
    Aphrodite Macbain: how strange a coincidence Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, someone I dropped after not seeing them for a long time recently re-added me...
    Bruce Mowbray: I prefer long hikes in a natural setting while listening to Enya on my iPod --
    Eliza Madrigal: but then we don't see each other online and they don't IM...
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have some friends on my list that I have no memory of!!
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Zen Arado: yes me too
    Bruce Mowbray: I've been here for two hours - and it has been GRAND. THANKS to all of you.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes bruce- walking is the best cure
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Bruce, wonderful to see you
    Zen Arado: you too Bruce and ty
    Bruce Mowbray: and, Aph -- have a happy trip home -- I am so glad you had a good holiday in Italy.
    Eliza Madrigal: so how secret is your secret sauce Aph?
    druth Vlodovic: good to see you again bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: bye for now.
    Aphrodite Macbain: bye bruce- so good to have you back again
    Aphrodite Macbain: not so secret- it involves alot of ricotta cheese and ham


    Eliza Madrigal: ah... can do the ricotta....
    Zen Arado: I better go too
    Aphrodite Macbain: I haven't seen the new retreat yet. Is it the same as the previous one?
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zen :)
    druth Vlodovic: bye zen
    Eliza Madrigal: the new hall?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye zen take care
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes it should be the same, just a diff spot
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Zen Arado: thanks for discussion - very interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you too! :)
    Zen Arado: bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: OK I think I'll go and look if I can figure out how to find it
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, yes maybe we can all walk together...
    Eliza Madrigal: then I should sign off too... much to do today
    Aphrodite Macbain: not sure where to go from here...
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe behind you? see something...

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