2010.10.22 07:00 - It Seems Too Easy

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    The Guardian for this meeting which follows Time Session, was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza, joined by Bleu, Freud, Pema, Zen, Alfred, druth, Eos, and Ewan. 


    Freud Jungsten: Normally it takes me a bit longer to make people leave a SIM... guess I am improving my annoyance skills... smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: hha Freud. Fridays are special. We have an early session before the regularly scheduled one :)
    Freud Jungsten: OH... way to shatter my illusion... grins
    Freud Jungsten: I did not know that though.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, sorry.... :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Fantastic session this morning...
    Freud Jungsten: What was the topic?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm... Time, Being, Play :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Actually... let me give you a link to the book Pema has been writing....

    (Added later: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books )

    Freud Jungsten: I have been in on a couple of the time talks...

    Freud Jungsten: Was not really able to put them together though until last nights session chatting with Wol.

    Eliza Madrigal: When I look at the list of time sessions I'm very surprised we've been meeting this many weeks... feels bran new
    Bleu Oleander: yes, amazing how time flys :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (taking a few minutes for my browser to bring up the link, but any second...)
    Pema Pera: indeed!
    Eliza Madrigal: unless one is waiting on a browser... hah
    Zen Arado: I can't get pab site either
    Pema Pera: Just to think that we have nine chapters already, meaning 18 weeks
    Pema Pera: yes, for me too the wiki is stuck -- again

    Pema Pera: seems to happy often these days . . .

    Alfred Kelberry: pema, how is your theory... um, i'm atually not sure how to call it. what do you call it? idea, concept? well, anyway... do i understand correctly, that (put it simply) it's a model of our interaction with the world in a mindful manner that can be explained in scientific terms?

    Pema Pera: I was trying to upload chapter 8
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll send a long a link when it unsticks Freud :)
    Pema Pera: I would put it more simply, Alfred, more like an attempt to get in touch with what is
    Eliza Madrigal: TY
    Bleu Oleander: seems language is limiting
    Freud Jungsten: wa-do
    Alfred Kelberry: it's more succinct, but not simpler :)
    Pema Pera: I think it's simpler
    Pema Pera: "what is" sounds pretty simple :-)
    Alfred Kelberry: sounds yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: simple in this sense is perhaps concentrated....
    Freud Jungsten: What theory is this?
    Bleu Oleander: simple words .... challenging concept perhaps
    Freud Jungsten: Sorry I missed that bit.
    Zen Arado: but we don't ike 'what is' so we make it complicated :)

    Alfred Kelberry: pema, maybe you should give this concept a name... wait, is it "play as being"? :)

    Bleu Oleander: like is subjective
    Eliza Madrigal doing a wiki dance...
    Zen Arado: guess I am subjective
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Alfred Kelberry: i think this line would look good on the cover of your time book: an attempt to get in touch with what is :)
    Bleu Oleander: you wouldn't be the first :)
    Zen Arado: or I think I am :)

    Pema Pera: well, you can have a look at

    http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/8._Play_as_Being for a new angle of "Play as

    Being" -- if ever the wiki gets unfrozen again
    Pema Pera: I've already sent a report to Calvino and Fael, they may be able to do something
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, it worked fine 10 minutes ago
    Alfred Kelberry: i flipped the pages
    Pema Pera: yes, that's when it got stuck
    Eliza Madrigal: they are pretty quick about that
    Alfred Kelberry: maybe wiki ate up all the memory :)
    Eliza Madrigal: many of us thumbing through the wiki at the same time
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Alfred Kelberry: pema, are all the wikis moved already?
    Eliza Madrigal: ongoing process as far as I can tell Alf...
    Alfred Kelberry: hmm, wiki seems to be down. maybe we should ping fael.
    Eliza Madrigal: I am still going over this idea... 'being' is too simple for our minds ... so have to 'play as being'
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza, ok. fael is doing a great job with it.

    Zen Arado: the nonduality teachers say you don't have to do anything - you are here already...
    Pema Pera: I pinged Fael and Calvino already, Alfred
    Freud Jungsten: What does that mean Zen?
    Zen Arado: I was advised to stop meditating
    Pema Pera: and I think Fael is in the middle of moving the last wikis
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen, interesting...


    Alfred Kelberry: heh, when i first came across this name, and about that time i saw the lion av (forgot the name) at the fireplace in kira cafe. i thought to myself, it must has something to do with beings like animals :)
    Zen Arado: if you search for reality it takes you farther away..
    Eliza Madrigal: not meditating for a time is still meditating...
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, it was 3d
    Alfred Kelberry: i think
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: I don't know what it means Freud
    Freud Jungsten: lol... OK.
    Pema Pera: that may be bad advise, Zen . . . . it all depends; I don't trust any across-the-board advice -- each person has different ways to go deeper

    Pema Pera: (was waiting for the bell :-)
    Zen Arado: sorry - forgot
    Freud Jungsten: I sometimes don't understand as the converstions here tend to come to the limits of my English.
    Bleu Oleander: deeper is an interesting word to think about
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Mine too Freud
    Alfred Kelberry: pema, how is it waiting for the bell when you already have text typed in? anxious to press enter? :)
    Zen Arado: agree Pema
    Pema Pera: try it, Alfred!
    Freud Jungsten: If I started typing before the bell, I go ahead and send it.
    Pema Pera: meanwhile, I'll try to get some sleep -- approaching midnight here in Tokyo
    Alfred Kelberry: i sometimes feel that way and try to let other thoughts arise then :)
    Zen Arado: ok thanks Pema :)
    Pema Pera: good seeing you all here again!
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Pema :) Sleep well and can't wait to read the next chapter!
    Freud Jungsten: Take care.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye pema
    Zen Arado: nite Pema
    Bleu Oleander: bye Pema
    Alfred Kelberry: night, pema
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Freud Jungsten: do-na-da-go-hv-i
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Alfred Kelberry: how are your legs, eliza? :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it is interesting to see one's mind not meditating, when one is used to doing so....
    Eliza Madrigal: almost a test.. to see what has become the default
    Alfred Kelberry: hmm
    Zen Arado: the idea is that in meditation you are trying to get somewhere
    Freud Jungsten: Where though?
    Zen Arado: even in a subtle way
    Zen Arado: to enlightenment ?
    Freud Jungsten: OK.
    Zen Arado: or why do we do it?
    Eliza Madrigal: subtle ideas of gain
    Eliza Madrigal: but that wasn't an answer to your question zen
    Zen Arado: even if you say you are attaining non -attaining

    Alfred Kelberry: zen, i don't use it for enlightment :)
    Zen Arado: but can we say we have no reason for doing it?
    Alfred Kelberry: as i'm quite sure i'm not going to get there anytime soon :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well, enlightenment as an end in itself doesn't make sense....
    Bleu Oleander: to me either
    Zen Arado: and it doesn't exist really...

    Alfred Kelberry: i do it to listen to my mind
    Alfred Kelberry: see myself in the moment
    Zen Arado: but that just pushes it further away Alf - why do you listen to your mind?
    Alfred Kelberry: part of relaxation too
    Eliza Madrigal: many benefits

    Zen Arado: it is like we cover up something we all have already
    Alfred Kelberry: well, listen is a general term. i mean, observe.
    Zen Arado: so then you get an idea of a watcher....
    Alfred Kelberry: and it's not pushing anything. thoughts are always there. appear and vanish.

    Zen Arado: Hi Eos
    Bleu Oleander: hi Eos
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi gang!
    Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you...
    Freud Jungsten: si yo
    Alfred Kelberry: eos :)
    Alfred Kelberry: canon
    Zen Arado: we're meditating om meditation
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Zen Arado: if I could type that is :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku :)
    Bleu Oleander: bye Yaku
    Freud Jungsten: I think a lot of folks meditate in their own ways.
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Y
    Freud Jungsten: Some listen to music... I run.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Freud :)
    Freud Jungsten: Some pray.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Freud Jungsten: Or a combinating of those things.
    Zen Arado: yes running can be meditation I think

    Alfred Kelberry: zen, buddhism says about being mindful, not mindless :) you don't strip away everything and isolate yourself.

    Freud Jungsten: Especially when the endorphins kick in ... smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: anything is, in some sense... seems to be some of what pema's chater suggests too....
    Zen Arado: I'm only giving arguments nondualiists use Alf - doesn't mean I go along with them :)
    Eliza Madrigal: even when we don't recognize it as such
    Alfred Kelberry: zen, um... sorry, i missed the non-duality part :)
    Zen Arado: I like to stay open to all disciplines
    Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean that formal meditation doesn't help to develop a kind of stability to allow defenses down?
    Freud Jungsten: Taking the time to at least inventory if not spring clean our mind and soul is probably a good thing.. to an extent.
    Zen Arado: np Alf :)
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, it's a good stance
    Alfred Kelberry: i try to myself :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i say try, cause some fields... well, i feel uneasy about
    Zen Arado: you can use meditation as a kind of escape too I think
    Freud Jungsten: But escape can be theraputic.


    Alfred Kelberry: um... i think escape is not the best way to describe it
    Freud Jungsten: OK... time for my next class... ciao all
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Freud, thanks for joining us
    Zen Arado: bye Freud
    Zen Arado: yes - like the stability bit Eliza
    Alfred Kelberry: *thinks about "escape" in the meditation context*
    Zen Arado: use it to escape thinking about problems?
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe we worry too much about correct ways to do things...
    Zen Arado: but that isn't good meditation
    Eliza Madrigal: intent matters
    Zen Arado: yes that too
    Eliza Madrigal: and there seems a self-correcting quality to that?
    Zen Arado: 'just sit' as they say in zen
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, yes. we sure do, eliza.
    Alfred Kelberry: social conformity every single moment :)

    Eliza Madrigal: as a side issue...
    Eliza Madrigal: no one has noticed my tag today :)

    Alfred Kelberry: ha! :)
    Zen Arado: playing as?
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Bleu Oleander: I did Eliza .... smiled
    Zen Arado: nice
    Eliza Madrigal: ty :))

    Eos Amaterasu: How does it feel to Play as Eliza?
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza being herself :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Eliza is pretty happy today... feels inspired
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: wind going through her cells?
    Eliza Madrigal: whoosh
    Alfred Kelberry: it's good to hear... and in fact, i can sense bits of your inpiration in me :)
    Eliza Madrigal: inspiration bits... heheh
    Eos Amaterasu: mirror cells getting inspired....
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, it's like when you smile, it makes people feel better around... a bit maybe :)
    Eos Amaterasu: retweet the inspiration
    Alfred Kelberry: eos :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes... sharing... resting under an open sky together
    Eliza Madrigal: but do find it difficult to write 'about' that contentment...
    Eliza Madrigal: there is nothing 'about' about it...
    Eos Amaterasu: enuf to write 'from' it
    Bleu Oleander: words can restrict somehow
    Alfred Kelberry: hmm... i feel more comfy now with a smaller group than earlier
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah :::beams::: yes.. from
    Alfred Kelberry: just noticed that

    Eliza Madrigal: yes I guess that's how your photo hit home, Blue...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth, nice to see you
    druth Vlodovic: ty :)
    Bleu Oleander: a picture is worth a thousand words
    Zen Arado: hi Druth :)
    Alfred Kelberry: bleu, a picture is restricted by the frame :)
    Eos Amaterasu: it might be like that quality of sadness and space behind Mozart's music: it's the music that speaks, the silence that's heard
    Eliza Madrigal: the music frames or 'presents' the silence....
    Bleu Oleander: and the photographer
    Eos Amaterasu puts hands up to make a frame
    Alfred Kelberry: eos canon
    Eos Amaterasu: :-) :-)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Zen Arado: I have one !
    Eliza Madrigal: Kanon :)
    Eos Amaterasu: indeed, Alfred
    druth Vlodovic: ever "frame" a piece of rl?
    Zen Arado: Eos 330 D
    Zen Arado: 300 D
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, film :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Druth, like a leaf one picks up on a walk?
    Zen Arado: no digital slr
    Alfred Kelberry: um... not this one
    Eliza Madrigal: a reminder of a taste of a moment...
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza :)
    Zen Arado: wondered why Eos's name was familiar :)
    druth Vlodovic: just pick a spot and imagine it in a frame, separated from everything else in the world, no connections or mening, just itself
    Zen Arado: think they call it 'Rebel' in the US

    Eos Amaterasu: The 'Diggers' in San Francisco, ran a soup kitchen, had a wooden 'frame of reference' you were invited towalk through :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: then we were all in the same frame of reference :-)

    Bleu Oleander: have to go all .... take care:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :) You too
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Bleu
    Zen Arado: bye Bleu
    Alfred Kelberry: zen, americans don't like math, so 300d isn't good :)
    Bleu Oleander: bye
    Alfred Kelberry: cosmic bleu :)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    druth Vlodovic: bye bleu

    Eliza Madrigal: zen , will you keep us updated on your exploration of meditation/non-meditation?
    Zen Arado: sure
    Alfred Kelberry: wiki is up, btw
    Zen Arado: you can come to Urban Guru Cafe and ask the guy yourself :)


    Eliza Madrigal: :) Avastu is neat to speak with, yes... I think there is a context here though, too...
    Zen Arado: they have meetings 6am Sundays
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, brb (apologies)
    Zen Arado: a guy called Jason something
    Zen Arado: JasonSwanson Ackmann
    Zen Arado: thing I find about non duality teaching -

    it seems too easy

    Eos Amaterasu: like Mozart
    Eos Amaterasu: "to easy for children, too difficult for artists"

    Zen Arado: I seem to prefer meditating for 3o years

    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: back :)
    Eliza Madrigal: haha Zen
    Eos Amaterasu: what else 'ya gonna do :-)?
    Zen Arado: but maybe that is our conditioning
    Zen Arado: you have to work and toil to get anywhere in this life...
    Eos Amaterasu: breathe in, breathe out
    druth Vlodovic: "Things are worth only what you put into them." :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: and I know I am breathing in and I know I am breathing out as TNK would say...
    Alfred Kelberry: zen 30 years of meditation experience?
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe our scope is too small... 'this life'....
    Eliza Madrigal: these 90 or so years...
    Zen Arado: not me Alf
    Eos Amaterasu: "30 years of schooling and they put you on the dayshift, look out kid" - Dylan
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Zen Arado: but zen teachers tell you to go away and meditate for 10 years...
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: so many teachers!
    Alfred Kelberry: so many years!
    Zen Arado: yes Too many Eliza
    Zen Arado: I am thnking

    druth Vlodovic: I remember a teacher walking us through a meditation once in high school
    Eliza Madrigal: how did you feel about that?
    Zen Arado: walking meditation?
    Eos Amaterasu: one of the delights at Stuttgart was talking meditation
    druth Vlodovic: it was nice, kind of freaky, a lot of people got pretty upset about it lol, "He is teaching mysticism."
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes unfamiliar things can take on scary faces for people...
    Zen Arado: think I woud be able to do 'talking meditation' :)
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, many people has this connection with meditation
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh! talking meditation! yes!!
    Alfred Kelberry: in this case you talk about "relaxation" :)
    Eos Amaterasu: chatting meditation
    Zen Arado: do a lot of that
    Eliza Madrigal: meditation would be the stance and 'whatever is happening or seems to be happening' would be none other than that :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    druth Vlodovic: it was nice actually, we imagined we were a drop of water going through the water cycle, but instead of imagining it he imagined it for us and we followed along
    Eliza Madrigal: druth, I love that!
    Alfred Kelberry: nice
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Zen Arado: being the H2O
    Zen Arado: as it changes form
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: lots of inspiring bits to choose from for log titles today :) Am deeply appreciative
    Eos Amaterasu: that's really what PaB exercises or sayings or sallies are like
    Alfred Kelberry: it's challenging to walk a bunch of teens through meditation :)
    Eos Amaterasu: directed playful imaginations
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    druth Vlodovic: it's hard to give up control, at least when you're not being forcibly directed

    Zen Arado: maybe teens are more open though
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, there is directing vs nudging or helping along :)
    Eos Amaterasu: smells like teen inspiration
    Zen Arado: adults get so set in their ways
    Alfred Kelberry: zen, um...
    Zen Arado: us older adults...
    Alfred Kelberry: teens get pretty set in their school way as well
    Eos Amaterasu: Will depart with the bell, thnx & bye, everyone
    Zen Arado: except me of course :)
    druth Vlodovic: bye eos
    Zen Arado: bye Eos


    Eliza Madrigal: bye eos, rare treat to have you at a 7am :)
    Alfred Kelberry: zen, actually...
    Eliza Madrigal: bye
    druth Vlodovic: zen is the heart of humility
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: you reminded me of an open mind example that i heard. i find it so striking :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ewan :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Ewan
    druth Vlodovic: we're busy ignoring the bell right now :)
    Zen Arado: yes Alf?
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks....I know I am very late..:)
    Zen Arado: hit me with it :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Ewan... others may stay but I must get going...
    Eliza Madrigal: sorry to miss you

    Alfred Kelberry: "Imagine a little baby on a plane who looks up over the seat and stares :) Watching the passengers with occasional smile or giggle. There's no presupposition or judgment

    “just sheer experience of being in the moment"

    Eliza Madrigal: Oh! sweet example Alfred :))

    Ewan Bonham: Well, will catch you later, Eliza,,,:)
    Alfred Kelberry: druth, good note about the bell... sorry :)
    Zen Arado: ah yes - that's before 18 mths or so
    Zen Arado: bye Eliza
    druth Vlodovic: yes, it's oddly captivating to see a baby staring, not even reflecting what they see, just looking
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... apologies to bell and those who wished to observe it...
    Eliza Madrigal: Be well and Happy :)
    Zen Arado: you too
    druth Vlodovic: bye eliza, I'm sure the bell will forgive you :)
    Zen Arado: babies are pure awareness
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i try and put myself in baby's place... um, it's hard :)
    Zen Arado: but we instil a sense of identity into them
    Zen Arado: oh yes Alf - that's the 'enlightened' state in a sense
    Ewan Bonham: A baby is using a part of her mind that is still in all of us...
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, ewan :)
    Zen Arado: if we can do that and retain our intelligence somehow...
    Ewan Bonham: In some ways it is easier for her to be in touch with present moment innocence than it is for me..:)
    Alfred Kelberry: buddhism says that our mind at any moment has everything it needs
    Zen Arado: yes - we have put so many veils over reality
    Ewan Bonham: I admire what i see in babes and strive to sink into that level of perception..:)
    Zen Arado: goo goo :)
    druth Vlodovic: lol, babies love to have people around, perhaps we imbue things with meaning so we are never alone
    Alfred Kelberry: ah, on this lovely note i have to go :)
    Zen Arado: I better go too :)
    Alfred Kelberry: interesting questions :)
    druth Vlodovic: ah, farewell alfred
    Zen Arado: bye all
    druth Vlodovic: and zen :)
    Alfred Kelberry: thank you all for the company
    Ewan Bonham: Bye Zen..:)
    druth Vlodovic: they forgot to turn off the recoder...
    druth Vlodovic: want to see what is in the gallery?
    Ewan Bonham: Oh , sure...thanks for the invite..:)
    druth Vlodovic: np :)

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