2010.10.28 01:00 - Transportation, Old Friends, Translators and Acceptance

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    The guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. Comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Archmage Atlantis, Bertram Jacobus and myself.

    Sleep and Driving:

    Zen Arado: Hi Arch :)

    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Zen :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Good to see you, how are you today??
    Zen Arado: I am quite good thanks
    Zen Arado: and you?
    Archmage Atlantis: Excellent
    Archmage Atlantis: I am good also
    Zen Arado: don't know how you get up so early
    Archmage Atlantis: I got some of my computer issues resolved finally, and I feel like I'm back in touch with the world
    Archmage Atlantis: Because I cat nap during the day *g*
    Archmage Atlantis: One of the side effects of my meds
    Zen Arado: if I take naps I can't sleep at night
    Zen Arado: oh I see
    Archmage Atlantis: I would prefer the same.....but I may be sitting watching or talking, and all of a sudden I fall asleep
    Zen Arado: I see
    Zen Arado: I never feel tired at night - just tired in the morning
    Archmage Atlantis: That is part of the reason I no longer drive
    Zen Arado: feel sleepy too though during the day
    Archmage Atlantis: This isn'
    Zen Arado: ah yes narcolepsy ?
    Archmage Atlantis: t feeling sleepy, more like passing out
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, very much like narcolepsy
    Zen Arado: hard to get by without driving in the US I imagine
    Archmage Atlantis: I probably should describe it that way, then ppl would understand quicker
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, you are correct
    Zen Arado: I had to give up driving too
    Archmage Atlantis: And there isn't any public transportation close by
    Archmage Atlantis: I figured you did, after you told me about the wheelchair
    Zen Arado: but I live in a small town and I can get to most places in an electric wheelchair
    Archmage Atlantis: That's good
    Zen Arado: there's a big supermarket close by, a cinema and many restaurants
    Archmage Atlantis: The US isn't designed for walking, much less for a powered chair
    Zen Arado: it's the advantage of old towns designed before the age of the car
    Zen Arado: I know
    Archmage Atlantis: No sidewalks most places, and the ones there are are very poorly designed and maintained
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes......I agree.....a small village would be nice
    Zen Arado: Florida is a pretty new place

    Florida geography and history:

    Zen Arado: it didn't exist as a place to live until they drained the swamps
    Archmage Atlantis: There have been attempts to design communities like that, but they usually revert back to the normal car dependent mode
    Zen Arado: around the start of the 20th century I think?
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, yes and no, the oldest town in the US was built by the Spanish in North Florida
    Archmage Atlantis: There is land that is not swampy
    Archmage Atlantis: But the Miami area is definitely mostly converted swampland
    Zen Arado: ok the further south you go the more swamp?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes
    Archmage Atlantis: The Southern tip used to be all Everglades
    Archmage Atlantis: Fortunately the book "River of Grass" woke ppl up to the ecological damage draining the Everglades was causing, so most of the area is protec ted
    Zen Arado: yes - I have been there twice
    Zen Arado: and rode around in an airboat
    Bertram Jacobus: hi zen and arch ! :-)
    Zen Arado: Hi Bert :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Bertram
    Archmage Atlantis: Then you know, Zen, you've seen it
    Zen Arado: didn't see any alligators though :)
    Bertram Jacobus: before i entered such an airbot (also in the everglades) i didn´t know how loud they are ! ... ;-)
    Archmage Atlantis: I used to live in the Ft Lauderdale area on the East Coast, now I live on the West Coast
    Archmage Atlantis: I don't know when you were here, but alligators have repopulated and now they are becoming a nuisance
    Archmage Atlantis: Small pets are lost to alligators all the time
    Archmage Atlantis: An a person or 2 every year
    Archmage Atlantis: Plus the pythons imported as pets have established themselves
    Zen Arado: I was there in 81 and 82
    Archmage Atlantis: There are pictures now and then of the pythons and the alligators trying to eat each other
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, alligators were still endangered species that long ago
    Bertram Jacobus: and i was there while an installed measure system related to the mosquito population said "horrible" - and i can agree - it was :o)
    Zen Arado: I saw a guy wrestle with one
    Zen Arado: a Seminole Indian
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, in the Everglades mosquitoes can cover every inch of your body in seconds
    Archmage Atlantis: Ugh
    Archmage Atlantis: That is one thing that is part of life down here, insect control
    Archmage Atlantis: The Seminoles have an interesting history
    Archmage Atlantis: Although mostly now they run casinos on their land
    Zen Arado: they were native to that area?
    Archmage Atlantis: Actually, they originallly were from Southern tribes, like the Cherokee, who fled further south as they were pushed out of other Southern States
    Archmage Atlantis: plus they accepted escaped slaves as members of the tribes, so some of them have African-American in their make up also
    Archmage Atlantis: How are you today Bertram?
    Bertram Jacobus: ty it´s fine - just woke up - 10:27 now here ... ;-)
    Archmage Atlantis: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: and how are you both ? :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Good ty
    Zen Arado: I get up at 7.30 - it takes me that long to be here for 9am
    Bertram Jacobus: have coffee and a schoko croissant here ...
    Zen Arado: I'm ok too

    Translation difficulties and reunion with old friends:

    Archmage Atlantis: Ok, this viewer is adding comments, I must have something turned on in the preferences
    Zen Arado: I had a reunion with 2 old friends from the early 60's
    Archmage Atlantis: brb
    Bertram Jacobus: comments ? can´t imagine that - can you show us an example arch ?
    Zen Arado: guys I shared a flat in Sydney with
    Archmage Atlantis: brb
    Archmage Atlantis: ok that did it
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. i saw already some pictures of those times from you zen ... :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Phoenix has a built in translator, it was turned on.......so the viewer was trying to translate my abbreviations into English *g*
    Zen Arado: ah I see
    Bertram Jacobus: ah - never saw that translator so far ... is it a good one ?
    Archmage Atlantis: I don't know
    Zen Arado: yes - I was a bit anxious about how we would get on
    Archmage Atlantis: Did they come to visit you there at home, Zen?
    Zen Arado: yes - they came to a hotel near where I live
    Bertram Jacobus: (where can i find that translator, plz?)
    Zen Arado: and came to my apartment as well
    Zen Arado: it's at the top of the chat window Bert
    Zen Arado: remember we tried it before?
    Bertram Jacobus: ah yes
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. see it now
    Archmage Atlantis: Bert, in phoenix, so to edit, preferences, text chat......the translater is a check box and a language drop down at the bottom
    Zen Arado: wonder if that is the same translator?
    Bertram Jacobus: i would think so
    Bertram Jacobus: because the google translator may be the best which exosts so far - as i know
    Zen Arado: well - a lot easier to just check box at top of window
    Archmage Atlantis: I have a friend who speaks mostly French.....he likes to use a translator, but to be honest, I understand his attempts at English better than what the translator does
    Zen Arado: yes - translators make a lot of mistakes
    Zen Arado: but if you don't know any of the language you have to use them
    Bertram Jacobus: many translators are more funny then helpful, yes, but as said - the google translator - quite impressive i find ...
    Zen Arado: I could understand a lot of French but no German
    Archmage Atlantis: I would say they miss a lot of the subtle points
    Zen Arado: I understand a lot of American too :)
    Archmage Atlantis: In spite of 4 years of classroom study in Spanish, and 3 years in German, I still can't communicate
    Archmage Atlantis: *(chuckle)*
    Archmage Atlantis: Two countries separated by a common language :)
    Zen Arado: you need to spend time in the countries where you have to speak the language maybe
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - i put the translator now on - into german and i think i will use it at least for a while (!) :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: I think that is true.
    Zen Arado: need the motivation
    Zen Arado: classroom study isn't enough
    Zen Arado: or keep talking to someone in SL
    Zen Arado: I had a French girlfriend one time in SL who didn't speak much English
    Archmage Atlantis: So maybe as an adjunct to some knoweldge, the translator may be useful then Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: but sl helps improving - vokabulary , also grammar ...
    Zen Arado: I found the translator helpful for words I couldn't remember
    Archmage Atlantis: brb, coffee
    Bertram Jacobus: "yes" : another coffee is a good idea ! ;-)
    Zen Arado: I try to read French magazines too sometimes
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow
    Bertram Jacobus: i find reading magazines in foreign languages quite difficult !
    Zen Arado: there is a translator in the browser for words I don't understand too
    Zen Arado: yes me too - but a good way to learn?
    Bertram Jacobus: may be. there are many ways to learn ... :-)
    Zen Arado: http://benchmail.linternaute.com/mag...0&f_u=16125373
    Bertram Jacobus: *click* - ah ! : litern@ute (!) ... ;-)
    Zen Arado: if it is an interesting article it is easier to motivate yourself
    Archmage Atlantis: I think, Zen, probably not as the main way.....but still a useful tool,,,,I know I use the google translator to convert English into the language of someone I'm talking to every now and then, just to acknowledge them in some way
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. the interest, the motivation helps very much or even is basic ! ...
    Zen Arado: agree Arch
    Zen Arado: I am too lazy to try to speak to others in their language
    Archmage Atlantis: I alway put it through in Englsh, then the retranslate back, just to make sure it comes back in Englsh the same as it started
    Zen Arado: it is common with English speakers I think
    Zen Arado: we expect everyone to speak our language
    Bertram Jacobus: oh not only for english speakers ! i am lazy in not only that way, too ! ... hmmm
    Zen Arado: but so many languages
    Bertram Jacobus: as i was together with fay - and she is dutch - i also didn´t learn her language ... (bad bert!) ...
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, I once had a discussion with someone about English tho, that there are many variations, British, American, Australian.......his point was Internet English is developing as another variation
    Zen Arado: I notice I am starting to use American spellings
    Bertram Jacobus: i call one variation of that also "world-english" ...
    Archmage Atlantis: smile
    Zen Arado: like realize instead of realise
    Zen Arado: American Zee-ification of English :)
    Zen Arado: some even say exerciZe
    Bertram Jacobus: here the translator made a funny thing ! :
    Bertram Jacobus: [01:50] Zen Arado: like realize instead of realise (wie verwirklichen statt realisieren)
    Archmage Atlantis: The British English we identify as "good* English is so "upper crust* :)
    Zen Arado: but it is changing all the time
    Archmage Atlantis: verwirklichen vs. realisieren
    Archmage Atlantis: interesting
    Bertram Jacobus: yess - that seems to be one of the nature´s laws : constant changings ...
    Zen Arado: you should hear BBC News presenters from 50 years ago - so different
    Zen Arado: I don't understand enough German to get that Bert :(
    Bertram Jacobus: hmmm - and verwirklichen und realisieren could be interpreted as the same word, only the one more german, the other a foreign word ...
    Archmage Atlantis: wie verwirklichen statt realisieren comes back in google as "realize realize how instead"
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe :-)
    Zen Arado: my old friends hadn't changed so much
    Zen Arado: just older and wiser
    Archmage Atlantis: That's better than just older *smile*
    Zen Arado: sorry I hadn't kept in touch with them
    Zen Arado: one of them is still in full time employment at 67
    Archmage Atlantis: Oh well, you are in touch now.......there is really only the moment we are in
    Archmage Atlantis: That is good
    Zen Arado: yes true Arch
    Zen Arado: but another died in 87

    Work and retirement:

    Archmage Atlantis: I planned to work into my 80's if I lived that long, but my body had other plans
    Zen Arado: and I only heard about that this year
    Archmage Atlantis: You have been out of touch then
    Zen Arado: it's ok if you enjoy the work and it doesn't stress you too much I guess
    Zen Arado: some people can't cope too well with retirement
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, that is true of all of life.......the happiest, least stressed people are doing work they like
    Bertram Jacobus: that´s a point ! i, for example, have mostly not so nice work and so i would love it, if i were free from it ! ...
    Zen Arado: retirement stresses some
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it does Zen
    Zen Arado: you have to make decisions of what to do each day
    Zen Arado: I have a friend who asks me - 'What are you planning to do today?'
    Bertram Jacobus: i have really no problems to fill / spend my days ...
    Zen Arado: and often I have no idea!
    Archmage Atlantis: It's taken me a while to adjust to being home most of the time.......but now I have a life through the computer, and books, and downloaded materials.......even if that were not available, I would still have books.......and if not that, I guess I would write an autobiography
    Bertram Jacobus: and i have no plans either ;-)
    Zen Arado: the good thing is I can just do what I feel like doing
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree with that Zen
    Zen Arado: I read a lot
    Bertram Jacobus: that is wonderful i find ! ...
    Zen Arado: I used to do a lot of formal study
    Archmage Atlantis: Working in corporations all those years was not my goal in retirement anyway
    Zen Arado: but I don't want to do any more exams...
    Zen Arado: not many find a career that they would work at for nothing
    Archmage Atlantis: No, famililes have to be fed, rent has to be paid
    Archmage Atlantis: That takes something to generate money
    Zen Arado: yes - but I mean they like it so much
    Archmage Atlantis: Right
    Zen Arado: like Pema loves his Astrophysics
    Archmage Atlantis: Exactly right
    Archmage Atlantis: Good example
    Zen Arado: finds it just like play and he gets paid for it as well
    Zen Arado: but I'm sure ther are difficult parts of his job too
    Zen Arado: always some people hard to get along with etc
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, I'm sure there are.....the administrative parts, and yes some interpersonal conflict
    Archmage Atlantis: Everyone has that to some degree
    Zen Arado: I just study spiritual books now
    Zen Arado: and practice meditation

    Why are we here question:

    Zen Arado: want to find out why we are here :)
    Bertram Jacobus: my impression is, the question "why" only leads to infinity zen (!)
    Archmage Atlantis: Bert, if you don't like what you are doing now...do you have any idea what you would rather do? (that's a rather impolite thing to ask in a group, so please forgive my poor manners)
    Zen Arado: and learn to express things through art
    Zen Arado: true Bert - but the pat is interesting :)
    Zen Arado: path*
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, I agree Bertram, that is were it leads, but think of all the interesting things along the way to infinity :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Like Zen says :)
    Zen Arado: not expecting any answers
    Bertram Jacobus: not at all arch : i love when we can be open. i only know, some fear that - and : no , i don´t see any ways to do something what i would more like. i think, the few years i still have to do that, i will survive anyhow ... and maybe i find some at least a bit nicer variations of that not so beloved work ...
    Zen Arado: but it helps me already to eal with life
    Archmage Atlantis: eal?
    Zen Arado: sorry *deal
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, ok

    Acceptance and doing:

    Bertram Jacobus: to me the most helpful attitude is to be in acceptance with things but that doesn´t always work so far sadly ...
    Archmage Atlantis: nods
    Zen Arado: yes - acceptance and then finding better solutions
    Bertram Jacobus: when i am in that state there are no more questions, no more wantings - simply life goes on then ...
    Archmage Atlantis: :)
    Zen Arado: like not saying' I wish things weren't this way' - but accepting they are this way and finding a better way throiugh the difficulty
    Archmage Atlantis: Said well, Zen
    Zen Arado: some people think acceptance is passive, I find
    Archmage Atlantis: Time for me to start my morning chores, the non-humans want breakfast, and I have body maintanance to do (smile)..........it has been great having both of you here for the meetin :).....see you younsters later *g*
    Archmage Atlantis: Bye
    Zen Arado: bye Arch
    Bertram Jacobus: no more searching no more findings i experience then in a way or so to say - just things happen, just things i do - it´s the wu wei thing i guess ...
    Bertram Jacobus: bye arch :-)
    Zen Arado: yes maybe Bert
    Zen Arado: there is a 'natural' thing to do
    Zen Arado: hard to find it though :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i compare it with water : it simply flows and goes with the surroundings, conditions which are there ...
    Zen Arado: yes great Bert - I was reading that in a koan commentary yesterday
    Bertram Jacobus: i love that as a metapher ... *sigh happily* ... :-)
    Zen Arado: the water from a mountain stream finds it own way to the sea
    Zen Arado: whereas we want to control everything
    Bertram Jacobus: yes - and back ! : as steam, a cloud, sometimes ice and then back to the source ...
    Bertram Jacobus: i don´t want to control everything always (!)
    Zen Arado: and it doesn't have to think about it
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. we can gain such a state too i guess ...
    Zen Arado: sometimes think it is better with conversations in pab
    Zen Arado: better to let them meander and see what comes up
    Bertram Jacobus: yes it can help here
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ! :-)
    Zen Arado: rether than impose topics
    Bertram Jacobus: i love meandering too ! ;-)
    Zen Arado: I better go - I have to do my meditation
    Bertram Jacobus: yes zen - ty for the morning talk !
    Bertram Jacobus: i enjoyed it very much
    Zen Arado: I have 2 RL meetings on Thursdays - art club, meditation group and then another meeting in SL
    Zen Arado: yes thanks for coming Bert:)
    Bertram Jacobus: enjoy the day ! and may all beings be happy plz ... :-)
    Zen Arado: bye for now and be happy too :)

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