2010.10.31 07:00 - Getting Exercized Discussing Anger

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

    This became a fairly intense session about anger and so there was a good bit of text generated.

    Freud Jungsten: osiyo
    Adams Rubble: Hello Freud :)
    Freud Jungsten: Everyone else is being ashionably late.
    Adams Rubble: Still one minute to go :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sharry and Bruce :)
    Sharry Ragu: gosh... thought I was quite punctual today *scratches head*
    Adams Rubble: There is the bell
    Sharry Ragu: Hello Adams :))
    Adams Rubble: Sharry, have you been here before?
    Sharry Ragu: yes, thank you
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Adams, Sharry, and Freud.
    Freud Jungsten: osiyo
    Adams Rubble: nice to meet you and Freud :)
    Sharry Ragu: Hello Bruce :)) and Freud :))
    Bruce Mowbray: Happy Halloween!
    Adams Rubble: Oh yes
    Sharry Ragu does not celebrate halloween..
    Sharry Ragu: how about Happy Day to you Bruce?? :))
    Adams Rubble: Hello Baeric :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Happy day!
    Sharry Ragu: hehe
    Sharry Ragu: indeed :))
    Adams Rubble: It is Reformation Sunday for the Lutherans
    Sharry Ragu: oh? well.. Happy Day sounds quite appropriate all around! :))
    Freud Jungsten: lol
    Adams Rubble: Just as scary for some people. hehe
    Sharry Ragu: hahahaha!
    Freud Jungsten: I still don't know what i am going to do tonight.
    Sharry Ragu: erm.. Bruce.. what exactly are you wearing?? lol
    Bruce Mowbray: Why not go as you are? Or is it too cold for that in Oklahoma?
    Sharry Ragu: ohhhh.. a tree ent??
    Bruce Mowbray stands so all may see that he has "reformed" himself into a tree.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Baeric Constantine: Evening/afternoon/ morning/whatever time zoen you are in greeting all :)
    Sharry Ragu: I like it a lot :))
    Freud Jungsten: lol.... It is ALWAYS too cold for me.
    Bruce Mowbray: (to celebrate with the Lutherans? --not).
    Sharry Ragu: hehehe
    Freud Jungsten: Just have a number of possible parties to go to.
    Freud Jungsten: It is All Saints Eve, so not just Lutherins.
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble is enjoying the shade from Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Baeric Constantine: brb
    Sharry Ragu wants to hug Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray loved tree hugs.
    Bruce Mowbray: loves*
    Sharry Ragu: :))
    Freud Jungsten: Coffe does sound great right now.

    Freud was wearing a tag "Annoying Woman" and I asked her about it

    Adams Rubble: I keep wondering about yur tag Freud :)
    Adams Rubble: your
    Sharry Ragu gives Bruce a big squeeze
    Sharry Ragu: lol
    Freud Jungsten: Well.
    Sharry Ragu: ㋡
    Sharry Ragu: I wondered that the first time I met Freud too
    Adams Rubble: you don't seem annoying at all
    Freud Jungsten: Several people suggested it.... smiles
    Freud Jungsten: We just have not got on the right topics.
    Bruce Mowbray loves being squeezed by Sharry.
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Freud Jungsten: Get a room.
    Freud Jungsten grins
    Bruce Mowbray waits to be annoyed by Freud.
    Baeric Constantine: /hath returned-a-did
    Adams Rubble: wb
    Adams Rubble: Baeric
    Bruce Mowbray: wb, Baeric!
    Baeric Constantine looks for a felling axe in inventory
    Sharry Ragu: :((
    Freud Jungsten: But in short, I am a christian minority lesbian that can't stand obama..... so I make a lot of folks irriatble.
    Baeric Constantine: hi and ty Bruce :)
    Freud Jungsten smiles
    Adams Rubble sings He's a lumberjack and he's OK
    Baeric Constantine: lol
    Sharry Ragu: wb back B.. did you drop your sense of fun along the way??
    Bruce Mowbray: wow -- That's some sort of singularity, for sure! I admire your individualism, Freud.
    Adams Rubble: Hello edwinly :)
    Bruce Mowbray: and do not find that annoying at all.
    Baeric Constantine: DId I have one to drop?
    Sharry Ragu: I would hope so :))
    Freud Jungsten: Or as other poeple call it... my pain in the assness...
    Baeric Constantine figures those who claim to be annoying are often called annoying by those who are unable or do not like that a woman is more educated than they are
    Freud Jungsten: bingo.
    Baeric Constantine: mostly indicative of men here
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "sense of humor". . . . also thinks that folks can only be annoyed if they've made themselves annoyable.
    Sharry Ragu nods to Bruce
    Freud Jungsten: The really funny one is when I tell people in RL that I take issues with the present administrations sexism racism hoophobia.... I get asked to prove I am a lesbian.... lmbo
    Sharry Ragu: ??
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Sharry Ragu: like that's gonna help how??
    Freud Jungsten: Just odd....
    Sharry Ragu: totally!
    Freud Jungsten: Folks on the left can't take a minority that does not adore obama...
    Freud Jungsten: Look at what NPR did to Jaun Williams.
    Sharry Ragu is rather ignorant of US politics
    Freud Jungsten: A white person can say she wished millions of americans would get killed in concertration camps but a black guy can't say muslims make him uncomfortable?
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm thinking that NPR regrets firing Juan for his generalization about being uncomfortable about Muslims.
    Bruce Mowbray: They've received MUCH criticism about that.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Riddle :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Riddle. WB!
    Riddle Sideways: morning all
    Riddle Sideways: what a really nice tree, bruce
    Sharry Ragu: seems to me, if you can't take obama, then that just accentuates your minority??
    Bruce Mowbray: thanks, Riddle.
    Sharry Ragu: hello Riddle :))

    Bruce brings up anger in general and Bruce and Freud discuss some painful episodes

    Bruce Mowbray: You know, I'm thinking about anger in general. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: I've recently been quite angry about something. .
    Sharry Ragu listens
    Freud Jungsten: True... lol... I am a minority minority.
    Freud Jungsten: Do tell Bruce please.
    Bruce Mowbray: and am wondering if that's "my problem...."
    Freud Jungsten: Anger is internal..... very easy words to say though.
    Bruce Mowbray: When is anger "justified" -- or is it always a "reactive" (un-mindful) emotion?
    Sharry Ragu: I believe in justified anger Bruce..
    Baeric Constantine: this is an abreaction zone, Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more abot "justified anger" and "abrecation."
    Adams Rubble: Anger is natural but it can be consuming
    Bruce Mowbray: or ab-reaction.
    Freud Jungsten: Anger is your way of detecting injustice.... your body figures it out before you do sometiems.
    Freud Jungsten: Like when smoething feels wrong, but you can't put your finger on it.
    Sharry Ragu: if others try to take advantage of you.. then to anger would be justified.. if you are reacting to something then that would need to be explored...
    Baeric Constantine: To release (repressed emotions) by acting out, as in words, behavior, or the imagination, the situation causing the conflict is abreaction
    Bruce Mowbray: So, it's not that I am reacting to someone's taking advantage of me? -- a combination of "justified" and "reactive"?
    Freud Jungsten: I have to admit (says the annoying woman) that I have used people's anger against them before.
    Sharry Ragu: well.. because it's fun isn't it?? LOL
    Freud Jungsten: What I try to do is... when I get mad.... move into analitcal mode to figure out why and ways to move on.
    Sharry Ragu: there is a lesson in it for them with that though ;)
    Freud Jungsten: Else, anger tends to control me.
    Sharry Ragu nods to Freud
    Bruce Mowbray: please say more, Freud.
    Baeric Constantine waits
    Bruce Mowbray: are you separate from your anger?

    Angry Houses

    Freud Jungsten: I grew up in a very angry house.
    Baeric Constantine: To release (repressed emotions) by acting out, as in words, behavior, or the imagination, the situation causing the conflict is abreaction
    Freud Jungsten: And it was a major part of my upbringing.
    Bruce Mowbray: I bet mine was even angrier. . . (not meaning to compete or be annoying).
    Freud Jungsten: Then I was put on ADHD drugs for 8 years and was not angry once I rmember.
    Freud Jungsten: When I got off of them, it came back ( with alot of other repressed emotions) in a bad way.
    Bruce Mowbray: wow.
    Sharry Ragu: I don't think there is separation from our anger, to me that would be a splitting and denying of the self
    Freud Jungsten: So just like some other bad thoughts... it is effort to control them vs the other way around.
    Bruce Mowbray: scary - about the ADHD drugs, I mean.
    Freud Jungsten: Chemical partenting.
    Bruce Mowbray does not 'believe' there are any 'bad' thoughts.
    Freud Jungsten: But to my mom's defsnes, I was a FAS baby, so maybe justified --- when you take away ther fact that she did it to me... frowns
    Sharry Ragu agrees with Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: FAS = fetal alcohol syndrome.
    Freud Jungsten: yes.
    Sharry Ragu: when you look at her reasons for being??
    Freud Jungsten: I came off of them without a draw down though so that was part of it.
    Bruce Mowbray: In my family of origina, anger was almost always present in the house . . . and the person who acted out that anger in the most intimidating ways was the "winner."
    Freud Jungsten: Her reasons for being?
    Baeric Constantine: so it is a case of what you have learnt as a 'correct' behaviour then, Bruce?
    Sharry Ragu: what drove her addiction (and ultimately the harm to you)
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more about "reasons for being"
    Sharry Ragu: I think generally, when you are brought up with that template.. it is difficult later to determine if you are reacting or if, when you do get angry.. it is justified.. is this your current dilemma Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: Not really, Sharry, For me it's more a question of what important business did NOT get attended to because everyone was so preoccupied with reacting to the anger.
    Freud Jungsten: Well... I can not speak objectively about the woman... we hate wach other with a passion.... but trhying to forgive.... my only soft sport for her though is that if she was that messed up to me, then she must have had a rough time of it as a girl as well.
    Freud Jungsten: soft spot
    Baeric Constantine: That, Bruce, would form part of the template
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, the "template" is a package deal. And I've spent most of my life unpacking that package.
    Bruce Mowbray: but to Freud's point about he mother. . .
    Sharry Ragu: I found with my difficulties with mistreatment by my mother.. learning her life and difficulties lead to an understanding.. which then allowed me to forgive as I felt .... compassion for her circumstances..
    Adams Rubble: It is good you can see that Freud :)
    Bruce Mowbray: one learns to have compassion for the parent's predicament. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: definitely a growth-edge beyond merely being angry.
    Freud Jungsten: Difficult... but we ahve moved from active hostility to appathy.... so that is an improvement.... lol
    Sharry Ragu: LOL
    Bruce Mowbray: but, Freud, isn't active hostility more honest, in a way, than apathy?
    Sharry Ragu: is appathy hostility in denial?
    Freud Jungsten: I was thinking more about the active side, not the emotional side.

    A French speaking visitor arrived here and left after finding we could not communicate

    Baeric Constantine: the first step is admitting the problem, the second is really having the desire to deal with it.... by having the desire I mean this.... (best explained in an analagy) A student approaches his sensi, saying he desires to be the best he possibly can be. The Sensi remains quiet. Some time later, at the river, the sensi grabs the student, holds him under water for a long time, then releasess him, and repeats that twice more... on the third time, the sensi speaks... "When you desire to change, to grow, toi succeed as much as you did that gasp of air, then and only then, will change etc occur..."
    Sharry Ragu: sorry, earlier Bruce, I was remembering your opening question re anger.. that is what my question was directed toward with the template..
    Sharry Ragu must have been holding on to the past ;) LOL
    fAdams Rubble: Hello Arch :)
    Bruce Mowbray: @Baeric -- I find that most spiritual work (or mindfulness work) requies an attitude of aspiration (intentionality?)
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Archi
    Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Arch.
    Freud Jungsten: Anger is very easy to do. Deeling with offense up front requires a bit more opennes and honest...
    Sharry Ragu nods to Freud
    Archmage Atlantis: Morning, Afternoon, Evening, Night all
    Sharry Ragu: :)) hello Archmage
    Archmage Atlantis: Still need new words
    Freud Jungsten: osiyo
    Baeric Constantine: I concur frued
    Adams Rubble: Yes, to Freud
    Adams Rubble: We can spend our lives fighting our parents or later their memory
    Freud Jungsten: But I think hostility toward anger shoudl be moderated....( I am beyond the limits of my English now... frowns)
    Freud Jungsten: It is natureal... and a nece3ssity.
    Sharry Ragu nods in agreement
    Freud Jungsten: Just needs to be controlled and used like a took, not worn like a scar.
    Riddle Sideways: yes, think is a neccessity
    Riddle Sideways: use to think anger was 'bad'
    Riddle Sideways: surpressed it
    Baeric Constantine: people are destroyed for lack of knowledge
    Riddle Sideways: then thought it was an emotion
    Riddle Sideways: and joy is also emotion
    Bruce Mowbray: suppressed anger burns one from the inside.
    Freud Jungsten: Yes, but expressed anger can be contagious.
    Archmage Atlantis: dropping into a middle of a topic, thought was bad, now see sometimes is go
    Riddle Sideways: so, don't surpress it, but don't support it either
    Freud Jungsten: Riots.... cyclical violent homes and gnerations... wars.... linchings.
    Archmage Atlantis: *goo
    Archmage Atlantis: *good
    Baeric Constantine: I think, often, joy and happiness are confused... whereas happiness may be an emotion, joy is not.
    Freud Jungsten: You are getting into shades of English I can't even touch.
    Baeric Constantine: Joy comes from something more.... it is part of the knowledge of where one is going in life... it is a contentment with who one is, and where one is...
    Adams Rubble: anger is a natural part of us but it is negative energy
    Riddle Sideways: emotions come as a package.
    Freud Jungsten: I dissagre...
    Adams Rubble: can be consuming if we let it
    Baeric Constantine: negative?
    Freud Jungsten: I don't htink anger is negative.
    Riddle Sideways: you get happiness and anger
    Baeric Constantine: not necessarily, Adams
    Riddle Sideways: once the package is openned
    Freud Jungsten: When I get mad about justice and act... it is positive.
    Adams Rubble: not negative but negative energy
    Archmage Atlantis: It is not bad, or wrong to have anger.......it is what we choose to do with it.......and if it owns us.....or we own it
    Adams Rubble: we can carry it with us if we do not let it go
    Bruce Mowbray: good point, Arch.
    Baeric Constantine: Anger is not necessarily negative.
    Baeric Constantine: be that energy or anything else
    Freud Jungsten: Love can be negative it if is misguided.
    Adams Rubble: shh
    Archmage Atlantis: Very, very true Freud
    Baeric Constantine: If love is negative then I suggest that indicates it is not love but rather an facsimile of love
    Archmage Atlantis: shh, my self
    Freud Jungsten: Sorry, hit enter beofre the bell but I am lagged.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Riddle Sideways: Arch is right. Emotions just are... What we do with them is important
    Adams Rubble: I was trying to say that anger is natural but we can let it go
    Freud Jungsten: Maybe there are shades of love... some good some bad.
    Adams Rubble: do not have to hold on to it
    Freud Jungsten: But holind on to some anger is good.
    Baeric Constantine: I concur Adams.... however, sometimes anger is necessary
    Adams Rubble: yes, and we can;t help it anyway
    Adams Rubble: it gets attention
    Baeric Constantine: snap, Freud
    Adams Rubble: but it makes other people angry in return often
    Freud Jungsten: Like on tueday when hopefully everyonstays angery and through out a bunch of parisites from our congress..... sorry... angry.
    Adams Rubble: as Bruce related
    Adams Rubble: there is so much anger in our political system in US nothing can get done
    Freud Jungsten: I dissagre... a lot of damage has been done over th last two years.
    Riddle Sideways: yes, only a few more days and the negitive politico adverts will go away
    Freud Jungsten: That I am looking forward to....
    Freud Jungsten: Being able to watch TV again... lol
    Riddle Sideways: was a very good john stewart show wednesday
    Freud Jungsten: I can't even watch that stuff.
    Freud Jungsten: Funny though.
    Baeric Constantine points to something Sharry mentioned earlier: "Sharry Ragu: if others try to take advantage of you.. then to anger would be justified.. if you are reacting to something then that would need to be explored..."
    Freud Jungsten: So can we agree that anger is good in moderation?
    Baeric Constantine: Not sure moderation has much to do with it
    Freud Jungsten: Like Ice cream?
    Riddle Sideways: brb
    Freud Jungsten: Then a better word?
    Adams Rubble: anger is
    Sharry Ragu nods to Adams
    Baeric Constantine: understanding anger is the first step...
    Adams Rubble: anger is something we have, not what we are (to borroww from pema)
    Freud Jungsten: Ok... I will accept that.

    Anger has us

    Bruce Mowbray: yes, and it feels like anger is also something that "has" US -- not we having it.
    Freud Jungsten: Maybe part of what we are though... just like all of our emotions.
    Adams Rubble: anger can have us, yes Bruce
    Sharry Ragu: we can work through to a place where anger will express itself correctly.. I think it takes work to get there though..
    Baeric Constantine: humans are multi-faceted
    Sharry Ragu: like you said earlier Freud.. it's a tool

    Looking back now, here is the place we started to misunderstand each other. Bruce began to talk about anger directed to him whereas I was thinking about what anger can do to us if we can't let it go

    Bruce Mowbray: not to put too fine a point on it, but I would rather to be "had" by anger than "had" by apathy - - more alive, and therefore more conscious.
    Adams Rubble: if we live in the moment, we can see it arise and let it pass
    Sharry Ragu nods to Adams again
    Bruce Mowbray: yes. exactly, Adams.
    Freud Jungsten: Agreed Bruce.
    Bruce Mowbray: so anger becomes just more stuff floating down the river.
    Bruce Mowbray: more stuff to watch, as it were.
    Baeric Constantine: If the choice is anger or apathy then we have already lost
    Adams Rubble: :)

    Is anger of apathy the only choice?

    Baeric Constantine: If the choice is anger or apathy, then we have already lost.
    Archmage Atlantis: As Adams said, inadvertantly was my impression, "anger is"
    Sharry Ragu: anger is action.. apathy is a giving in.. no one said there were only the choice between... ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: agree, Baeric. . . but I feel more capable of watching the river from my anger than from my apathy.
    Adams Rubble: (not inadvertant. hehe)
    Adams Rubble: we can watch with love

    Archmage Atlantis: you saucy wench, you, Ms. Adams
    Baeric Constantine: I suggest Bruce, that from neither place, that is capable.
    Freud Jungsten: I tihnk you can express hostility through apathy much better than with anger.
    Baeric Constantine has been the angry man
    Freud Jungsten: If that makes any sexnse at all.
    Bruce Mowbray: anger looks straight at the thing one is angry at and says "Stop!" -- Apathy simply looks away without concern or caring.
    Adams Rubble has spent time being angry too
    Freud Jungsten: So can we take this disccussion to all the other emotions as well?
    Bruce Mowbray: When someone is angry at me, I feel more cared for than if they are apathetic toward me.
    Bruce Mowbray: angry*
    Archmage Atlantis: And here comes Aggie.....always one for a good fight *g*
    Freud Jungsten: They are good and natural.. but if you let them consume you, you have missed the point?
    Sharry Ragu: I don't see how you think one shows more than the other Freud.. both are equal to me??
    Bruce Mowbray: hey, aggers!
    Archmage Atlantis: Well said Freud
    Baeric Constantine: One forgets that anger is blind
    Freud Jungsten: Maybe my choice of words...
    Riddle Sideways: yes, same with all the other emotions
    Baeric Constantine: Anger is blind.... so does not see anyway
    Freud Jungsten: I just feel when I feel contempt for someone... I really go to ingoring them... denying their existance.
    Riddle Sideways: we can watch the river, with all our friends

    This was the hour point and guardians began to move to the Guardian Meeting while others began to suddenly rezz and go. Freud, Baeric, Sharry and Archmage continued for another half hour

    Freud Jungsten: Much more effective than visibly being angry to therm.
    Baeric Constantine: .
    Baeric Constantine: Anger is blind.
    Sharry Ragu: leaving your energy unexpressed?? to me that sounds like constipation...
    Adams Rubble: This needs so much more time
    Adams Rubble: Sharry, we can change our energy, not unexpress it
    Riddle Sideways: yes, needs many years
    Freud Jungsten: Actually, this is the first intersting conversation I have had since comming to this place.
    Riddle Sideways: ado, must go now
    Adams Rubble: Bruce, I am thinking of our own anger not what is being directed at us
    Bruce Mowbray: thanks for your offerings today, everyone -- and especially Freud.
    Adams Rubble: bye Riddle :)
    Baeric Constantine: Bruce, that is like the child being naughty to gain attention... it just aggravates the situation.
    Freud Jungsten: do na da go hv i
    Sharry Ragu: I agree Adams, however holding it in and continuing in that template is not helpful or effective to my beliefs..
    Adams Rubble: some pepople need to go to another meeting
    Bruce Mowbray: but if that child's behavior generates more "attention" -- (mindfulness), then I say, go for it.
    Adams Rubble: Stim, who is is some ways an inspiration behind PaB said something interesting
    Baeric Constantine: it is a living one, Freud
    Adams Rubble: every moment has its own energy, negative or positive
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, I also need to be gone (leaf). Thanks everyone.
    Adams Rubble: we can choose to take that energy into the next moment
    Adams Rubble: or let it go
    Freud Jungsten: But neither of those options is better than the other.
    Adams Rubble: If we continue to take negative energy with us
    Sharry Ragu: agreed.. which is why I pointed to a template..
    Adams Rubble: it will make us very unhappy
    Sharry Ragu: agreed
    Adams Rubble: we can instread grasp at positive energy
    Freud Jungsten: Depends on what you mean by negative or positive energry.
    Adams Rubble: so no surpressing Sharry
    Freud Jungsten: Depends on the viewer I think.
    Baeric Constantine: Adams, we are made up of positive and negative... we need it to function... like electircity
    Sharry Ragu: the continuation of a behaviour is fixation, and opposes the potential to change from moment to moment
    Adams Rubble: yes, but we can choose what to carry forward

    The dangers of a fast moving conversation. Here we had a misunderstanding which Sharry will refer to later. I was answering Baeric and it seemd to Sharry I was responding to her. I also missed this comment of Sharry's. Yes Sharry, I agree, one can get lost in the anger and it can get in the way of our being able to see.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey guys
    Adams Rubble: into the next moment
    Adams Rubble: hello yak
    Sharry Ragu: ㋡
    Sharry Ragu: hey ya Yaku
    Baeric Constantine: Hi Yakku
    Maxine Walden: oh, sorry, meaning to go to the guardian meeting
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i move over to the guardian session, yes
    Adams Rubble: Hello maxine
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi and bye
    Freud Jungsten: Yes, but who decides what is postiive or negative?
    Sharry Ragu: there is no choice is one is fixed in a template.. this is my point, not that the potential is not there??
    Baeric Constantine: sometimes it is chosen for us
    Sharry Ragu: I am not proposing positive or negative..
    Baeric Constantine: .
    Sharry Ragu: I am looking for the window that is being missed..
    Baeric Constantine: .
    Archmage Atlantis: Funny how that is, positive oar negative
    Freud Jungsten: I don't think there is pos or neg energy.
    Freud Jungsten: I think it is just energy... and how we use that makes it pos or neg.
    Freud Jungsten: That makes sense?
    Archmage Atlantis: Not even that, Freud, it is how we interpret it
    Adams Rubble: Positive is what makes you feel happy; negative is what makes you feel miseraable
    Archmage Atlantis: And ye
    Adams Rubble: we can spend a long time feeling moserable
    Archmage Atlantis: makes sense
    Sharry Ragu is really frustrated that she is not being heard.. that there is fury to oppose each statement without effort of understanding
    Freud Jungsten: I don;t like that.... implies that if you just chase what will make you happy... will make you happy.
    Freud Jungsten: And generally speaking.... the exact oposite is true.
    Archmage Atlantis: Good for you Sharry
    Sharry Ragu: thank you Arch :))
    Baeric Constantine: mmmm that is altering the esence of positive and negative to a conceptual construct of good and bad on the social acceptability scale
    Adams Rubble: please say more Sharry
    Baeric Constantine: sorry.. didn't meant to shout
    Baeric Constantine: sorry about shouting
    Baeric Constantine: .
    Baeric Constantine: sorry about shouting
    Freud Jungsten: Yes please say more.
    Sharry Ragu: Adams, you are propsing change from moment to moment.. we have been discussing anger..
    Adams Rubble: I was talking about holding on to anger
    Sharry Ragu: I agree with what you are saying, and you too Freud.. however.. what I feel is important in this misunderstanding is how fixation occurs and robs us of the ability to move from moment to moment with choices..
    Baeric Constantine has lag in abundance, care to share some with me?
    Archmage Atlantis: vg - lag in feelingz
    Sharry Ragu: Adams, the moment to moment was in relation to pos. neg. ;)
    Adams Rubble: with chat it is easy to talk over each other. When we read back, misunderstandings often disapate
    Freud Jungsten: I lke the way you put that Sharry.
    Sharry Ragu: I agree.. I felt this discussion was very charged
    Archmage Atlantis: ?Or amplyfy, Adams........even reading the log, that happens at times
    Adams Rubble: I don't see you and I disagreeing Sharry
    Archmage Atlantis: No magic bullets
    Sharry Ragu: thank you Freud.. so my proposition is not that anger is good/bad.. right/wrong.. positive/negative.. I agree it just is..
    Sharry Ragu: I felt frustrated.. I don't think there were disagreements as such Adams
    Freud Jungsten: So to ask an eralier question again... can we push Sharry's comments to the other emotions... or is that idea only good for anger?
    Sharry Ragu: it should work for all..
    Sharry Ragu: but I will take a moment to think on that
    Adams Rubble: I don't think anger is an emotion
    Baeric Constantine: there were no disagreements
    Archmage Atlantis: It "may" work for all, yes

    There are other Anger sessions on the Wiki

    Adams Rubble: BTW, you may wish to search anger on the PaB wiki. There have been a number of sessions about it
    Sharry Ragu: how many emotions are there really?
    Freud Jungsten: depends on your definition and culture maybe.
    Archmage Atlantis: I have been really non-observent of the bell of late.........yet the bell is a constant here to be observed
    Sharry Ragu: yes, I know there is a lot of debate.. whether there is basic sub-groups.. or there are actually individual aspects of emotions..
    Freud Jungsten: Emotions seemed to be a bit cloudy in English though... at least to me.
    Sharry Ragu: Adams, I think anger is such a large experience of our journey here.. it doesn't surprise me.. I shall look at the wiki, thank you :))
    Freud Jungsten: One can have a thrist or hunger for knowledge... but only a hunger for food, but not drink.
    Archmage Atlantis: I will tell something
    Sharry Ragu: I've often thought english does not express fully..
    Freud Jungsten: Things about Englihs I will never get.
    Sharry Ragu listens
    Archmage Atlantis: I am shaman
    Freud Jungsten: I think is expressed things too well actually.
    Archmage Atlantis: Shaman use chemicals to see
    Archmage Atlantis: It is not a path I would recommmend
    Freud Jungsten: you have so many ways to shade meanings that a non native speaker has little hope of really understanding someteims.
    Freud Jungsten: My aunts are medicine women.... translates to .... stoners.
    Sharry Ragu: LOL
    Baeric Constantine: English is a technical language not a descriptive one
    Freud Jungsten: Tsalagi has 23000 words.... English ahs half a million.
    Archmage Atlantis: Makes sense to me
    Freud Jungsten: So the ablity to shade meanings is supperior based one sheear vocabulary.
    Adams Rubble: I wonder how many different words any of us use
    Freud Jungsten: Or that is how it seems to me.
    Baeric Constantine: English has many words
    Baeric Constantine: about half million seems right
    Baeric Constantine: but maybe more
    Archmage Atlantis: I had to learn standard written US English......being from the Southern US.......Yawl
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Sharry Ragu: :D
    Freud Jungsten: And the difference between English acitve and passive voice is huge once I figured that out.
    Sharry Ragu: you know, Freud.. I had no idea you were having such difficulty.. I really appreciate your efforts and enjoy your offerings :))
    Adams Rubble: You are doing wonderfully Freud :)
    Freud Jungsten: I am getting better at my English... this place helps.
    Adams Rubble: Yess, and I think I could have borrowed your tag today :)
    Freud Jungsten: You can join m group.... smiles
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Freud Jungsten: Women's Native American Dance.
    Sharry Ragu: Adams.. do you think I was expressing that I was annoyed with you?
    Baeric Constantine: The average person, I believe, uses 20k words, while the academics use 40k+ and lexicographers use in excess of 100k but my thoughts may be wrong
    Adams Rubble: sometimes I get carried away :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
    Sharry Ragu: well.. just to ensure there is no confusion.. I agreed with your offerings and felt unheard by all.. that is all
    Sharry Ragu: agreed = enjoyed
    Freud Jungsten: I have felt that way before here as well.
    Adams Rubble: I understand feeling unheard Sharry
    Sharry Ragu: hehe.. so in relation to our discussion on anger.. I felt frustrated.. and that was definitely my problem ;)
    Adams Rubble: I think I was listening to you but may have missed something which I will see hen I post the log
    Freud Jungsten: One time I thought I was being ignored, but it turned out the answer was so strnage to me I did not see it as an answer.
    Adams Rubble: easy to get angry when discussing anger
    Archmage Atlantis: Tower of Babel - writings of ppl who never thought divine......only stories to be give
    Freud Jungsten grins
    Baeric Constantine has been carried away on the river of anger at lag due to poor connections
    Adams Rubble: ohh
    Adams Rubble: that always is frustrating
    Sharry Ragu: I'm feeling really sorry for you Baeric.. that is also frustrating.. however is it justified anger?
    Adams Rubble: I better run to another meeting for which I am late. Thanks for all your thoughtful comments
    Sharry Ragu: thank you Adams, enjoy!
    Freud Jungsten: ciao.
    Adams Rubble: unfortunately the log will stop when I leave
    Baeric Constantine: Sometimes the answers we receive are not what we are wanting so we deem that as not being the answer.
    Adams Rubble: yes Baeric
    Archmage Atlantis: Pumpkindaway *g*
    Baeric Constantine: Sometimes the answers we receive are not what we are wanting so we deem that as not being the answer.
    Sharry Ragu smiles
    Adams Rubble waves bye
    Archmage Atlantis: waves

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