2011.01.02 19:00 - The Relational Self

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeno. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Bleu Oleander: hi Aph
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone
    Bleu Oleander: hey Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Uli
    Uli Helendale: Hello :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Uli
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you been here before?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Happy New Year everyone
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll give you a note
    Uli Helendale: And Bleu and all :) No, I haven't been here before.
    Bleu Oleander: HNY Aph!
    Aphrodite Macbain: You look beautiul Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: oh ty Aph!
    Uli Helendale: Thank you, Calvino.
    Calvino Rabeni: We do short meditations and talk in between ..
    Calvino Rabeni: also there's a chat recorder at the pool here, and the dialogue is published on our wiki
    Uli Helendale: Wonderful :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Please have a cushion Uli
    Calvino Rabeni: so we ask visitors if that's OK with them
    Uli Helendale: Yes, that's fine, thank you.
    Calvino Rabeni: ;) thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: Bleu - I was in a gallery
    Bleu Oleander: in sl Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: and I saw some computer generated art, a huge collage of cubes
    Calvino Rabeni: no in an office in RL
    Bleu Oleander: oh nice
    Calvino Rabeni: but it made me think of our various projects
    Aphrodite Macbain: where was that Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: Downtown Seattle in a private office
    Calvino Rabeni: Anyway I made these cubes that are in the pool
    Bleu Oleander: I was going to ask you about them ...
    Calvino Rabeni: if you click on one of the top ones Bleu, it will follow your voice
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Mitzi
    Bleu Oleander: what does that mean
    Calvino Rabeni: so the bottom one responds to me
    Calvino Rabeni: and they move when their person talks
    Bleu Oleander: oh nice
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Mitzi
    Bleu Oleander: how did you do that?
    Calvino Rabeni: If you like you can even put your own texture onto your cube
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi everyone, nice crew tonight! Happy New Year, Calvino
    Bleu Oleander: wow that's cool
    Calvino Rabeni: How have you been, Mitzi?
    Bleu Oleander: hi Mitzi
    Calvino Rabeni: Long time no see
    Aphrodite Macbain: Mitzi comes in many forms, all naked
    Bleu Oleander: hi Brian
    Brian Roop: hello all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Brian
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I am well ... thanks for inquiring! Had a nice long vacation with family, all went quite nicely, and am ready to get back to the daily routine. How are the rest of you all in this brave new year?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I cant change the colour of the middle cube- it's locked
    Calvino Rabeni: Semi brave Mitzi :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Naked huh, Aph? I guess I am self-disclosing!!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Feeling brave too
    Uli Helendale: Hey, Aziel :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Nice words
    Aziel Sigall: Hi Uli
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi ssl
    Brian Roop: hi sophia, uli
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Sophia
    Bleu Oleander: hi Aziel
    Uli Helendale: Hello Brian :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Sharon
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Danger
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aziel?
    SophiaSharon Larnia clicks all the things in the fountain, wondering they do anything :D
    Aziel Sigall: ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: K
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Aziel
    Aziel Sigall: hi
    Brian Roop: they are daisies or something
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is this your first time here?
    Aziel Sigall: DOn't know.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Cal has a card he can give you
    Calvino Rabeni: I advise visitors - the converstions are recorded during this session and go onto our wiki at http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    Uli Helendale: Hi, Tess :)
    Brian Roop: hi tess
    Tess Aristocrat: hello ???
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Tess
    Aphrodite Macbain: Please take a cushion Aziel
    Aphrodite Macbain: Cor - do you really want us to ignore you?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: ask Cal, Aphrodite :) hehe
    Bleu Oleander: hi Tess, Rhia :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Rhi
    Tess Aristocrat: Hello Rhia ???
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Tess!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Sophia!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Bleu!
    Aphrodite Macbain: How are the birds Rhi?
    Bleu Oleander: what birds?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Aphrodite, they are awesome; Rhiannon of the Birds is my namesake
    Rhiannon Dragoone: So i too her name as my display name
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Aziel!
    Bleu Oleander: ah
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: What's new Rhiannon?
    Aphrodite Macbain: tell memore about her please Rhi
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Aphrodite, she was the queen of Fairy, fell in love with a mortal, Pwyll, and lost her immortality (although she gained it back and is still seen riding on the Tor in walew)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: She was accused of eating her children, and Pwyll had her assume the status of a horse for a while
    Aphrodite Macbain: wales?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: She is also a name of the Lady of the Lake
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Wales
    Bleu Oleander: is that the Stevie Nicks song?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi ceekku
    Rhiannon Dragoone: i write stories about her great descendent, and have had several published
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a loyto f women of the sea, lakes, water, in mythology :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Bleu, it is based on her, yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a lot*
    Aphrodite Macbain: a welsh story?
    Aphrodite Macbain: sdoes she speak bird?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, from the Mabingeon
    Rhiannon Dragoone: she has three birds, that are mystical, that she controls
    Rhiannon Dragoone: One is the bird of justice
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Ceekku
    Rhiannon Dragoone: one is the bird of life
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Ceekku
    Rhiannon Dragoone: aziel crashed
    ceekku Resident: Hello
    Aphrodite Macbain: lovely story. I'll google it for more
    Uli Helendale: No, Aziel left.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, google Rhiannon; you will also get some of my stories listed
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh. hope she's OK
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, hope she's ok
    Uli Helendale: Yes, fine, Aphrodite. :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: welcome to SL Ceeku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Cekku, sorry
    SophiaSharon Larnia: if you right click on the plillow, you can sit on it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: chose sit here
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, oh, she's in the fountain
    Rhiannon Dragoone giggles
    Aphrodite Macbain: are you havig problems seeing ceekku?
    ceekku Resident: no?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: welcome to play as being :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: don't get wet, it's cold out here
    ceekku Resident: What are we doing?
    Calvino Rabeni: It took me months to learn not to stagger around in second life - like a baby learning to walk
    ceekku Resident: buddha?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: not so bad today,Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: talking right now, and the conversation is being reorded
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Cal,heh, i have laggy controls; often would staggert if not for my AO
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too, still do that in the official SL viewer hahahah
    ceekku Resident: if you wanna see me naked pay 1$
    Aphrodite Macbain: recorded!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Calvino Rabeni: Every 15 minutes we do a silent meditation for 90 seconds, just to notice exactly what's happening
    Aphrodite Macbain: Lotsa naked bodies here aleady
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, oh, conversation is being recorded; be careful Aph; i've gotten banned for quoting the wrong person
    Calvino Rabeni: not here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok, gtg
    Rhiannon Dragoone: no, not here
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) banned?
    Calvino Rabeni: its harder to get banned by quoting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: have fun everyone :D
    Rhiannon Dragoone: cu Sophia
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye SSL
    Bleu Oleander: bye Sharon
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, i know, Cal; when i got banned, i sought places like this out
    Aphrodite Macbain: are you leaving already sharon?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I've left after just arriving when there's a rl problem
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Woah, lag; although i'm seeing *everyone* perfectly
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And I can sit! Yay!

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm wondering about that thing that happens every session here, that we don't understand - how to topics get started?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I saw a creat Ted Talk this afternoon on the subject of shame and vulnerability: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
    Bleu Oleander: saw it also Aph
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes that is a good series anything by Brene Brown on TED
    Aphrodite Macbain: It continues that discusion wehad on shame a fw weeks ago. Zen mentioned it this mrning. Very moving
    Calvino Rabeni: It opens some new ways to think about those things
    Aphrodite Macbain: I highly recomend it - sent it to all my RL friends
    Aphrodite Macbain: It kind of kick started meinto 2011
    Calvino Rabeni: It's not that the IDEAS are new, its the "approachability" she gives it - very personable
    Bleu Oleander: worthiness .... topic for tonight?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes and the way she puts ideastogether
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Is someone starting a fire?
    Calvino Rabeni: No Rhi that's an experimental art piece ... just for today
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes worthiness to connect wih others
    Calvino Rabeni: still being worked on- hope it's not too distracting
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, i'm not sure i'm seeing it all, but what i am seeing is very pretty
    Aphrodite Macbain: fear of shame
    Rhiannon Dragoone: no, just wondered what it was
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's getting taller Cal
    Bleu Oleander: excruciating vulnerability
    Bleu Oleander: let ourselves be seen
    Bleu Oleander: practice gratitude and joy
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes and the willingness and courage to be vulnerable. Truly P@Bian kin concept
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, one of the points I think is that shame isn't an emotion it includes a whole unconscious set of social attitudes and is sometimes hard to notice even when it is happening
    Tess Aristocrat: ???
    Bleu Oleander: I am enough
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I like that; practice gratitude--it leads to joy
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Because it focus us on what we have; not what we don't have
    Tess Aristocrat: yes and also, what can I do to help
    Rhiannon Dragoone: wb Tess
    Tess Aristocrat: I like to practice that
    Tess Aristocrat: hehe..thanks
    Aphrodite Macbain: But it starts by accepting yourself
    Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe I'll call myself shameless ahrodite
    Tess Aristocrat: it's not having what you want but wanting what you have ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: She wrote a book on accepting life as real including imperfections
    Bleu Oleander: did you read it?
    Calvino Rabeni: it was a kind of self help book, but she's a serious social researcher
    Aphrodite Macbain: serious, articulate and smart
    Tess Aristocrat: Aph, someone told me that was a form of lag
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess, well someone at one of my groups said it's wanting what you don't have but can obtain, accepting what you can't obtain, and wanting what you do have; and having the wisdom to know the difference
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I like that so much that i might have an informal discussion on that
    Calvino Rabeni: yes Aph the ?'s are annoying, they're part of the SL design that's not quite right yet
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, at least we have the account name when that happens, or at least I do on Phoenix
    Tess Aristocrat: hehe..the last line is the AA prayer
    Aphrodite Macbain: OK life is a constant question anyway
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess.yes, and it comes from a rabbai in WWII
    Tess Aristocrat: ???
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
    Calvino Rabeni: Shame is like the Dark Matter of human beings in relationship
    Aphrodite Macbain: nicely put
    Calvino Rabeni: And like suffering, its very present and hard to talk about without getting sunk in it
    Calvino Rabeni: but Brene Brown does it nicely
    Tess Aristocrat: a learned behaviour
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, i'm not sure I follow; dark matter is what holds the universe together. Are you saying shame holds us together?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I wonder if we are inherently divided, with split-off parts - as an adaptation to the pain of human reality
    Calvino Rabeni: I Yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: a metaphor only
    Tess Aristocrat: I haven't gotten to see that presentation yet, but i saved it to favs ???
    Rhiannon Dragoone: um, which presentation?
    Calvino Rabeni: It's been making the rounds, getting a buzz around here
    Aphrodite Macbain: which presentation- the one I mentioned?
    Tess Aristocrat: the Brene Brown presentation on Ted.com
    Aphrodite Macbain: one
    Aphrodite Macbain: - above Rhi
    Calvino Rabeni: Who has a fresh link to it?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I gave the URL
    Rhiannon Dragoone: ok, the link would be at Ted.com?
    Tess Aristocrat: just go to ted.com
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
    Tess Aristocrat: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: It's called The Power of Vulnerability
    Tess Aristocrat: that's a good site
    Calvino Rabeni: There are several by her on TED
    Aphrodite Macbain: you're faster Cal!
    Calvino Rabeni: Courtesy of having a Delicious account open in another browser
    Aphrodite Macbain: delicious huh?
    Tess Aristocrat: mmm..I'd better get some sleep as I'll be starting a new job tomorrow
    Calvino Rabeni: Sounds exciting
    Tess Aristocrat: I probably won't sleep well at all..haha
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess. congrats again on your new job!
    Aphrodite Macbain: wow. good luck!
    Calvino Rabeni: first day is memorable :)
    Uli Helendale: Congratulations, Tess :) And goodnight.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, yeah
    Aphrodite Macbain: what will you be doing?
    Tess Aristocrat: aww thanks..just just for the tax season
    Tess Aristocrat: I'll be doing taxes

    Rhiannon Dragoone: I'll be avoiding taxes :)
    Tess Aristocrat: lol
    Tess Aristocrat: night all xox
    Bleu Oleander: bye Tess
    Aphrodite Macbain: Tess's taxes
    Uli Helendale: I'm off, too, goodnight all. :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, uli
    Bleu Oleander: night Uli
    Calvino Rabeni: Take Care Uli, Bye :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: sweet dreams
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank god for digital tax forms
    Aphrodite Macbain: Nite all
    Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, Aphrodite
    Rhiannon Dragoone: thanks for hosting this
    Bleu Oleander: night everyone
    Rhiannon Dragoone: nite Bleu!
    Calvino Rabeni: Goodbye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Note Bleu, Rhi, Mitzi, Cal
    Aphrodite Macbain: nite
    Calvino Rabeni: Sleep well
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Luc!
    Calvino Rabeni: or perchance to dream
    Rhiannon Dragoone: ah, there's the rub...
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi All!
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, because of the part where there's a thousand natural shocks
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Lucinda :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, it's what dreams will come when ou're in the endless sleep of death
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Cal, Rhi,Mitzi
    Calvino Rabeni: It seems, the more people in the session, the more difficult to choose a good topic and get into it
    Lucinda Lavender: I am I just came to say Hi
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Cal, well, it just means to shift through all the different ppl's contributions
    Lucinda Lavender: I am to full to sit at this moment!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: well, hi, luc
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe there's a natural mechanism involved
    Lucinda Lavender: how emabarrassing
    Calvino Rabeni: what, Cinda?
    Lucinda Lavender: Have just been out to eat and am very full
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh , I couldn't tell !
    Lucinda Lavender: really should walk around a bit or something
    Rhiannon Dragoone: you don't seem uncomfrotable
    Lucinda Lavender: well what topics have come up thus far?
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
    Calvino Rabeni: Ways to think about vulnerability in a way that's not negatively charged emotionally
    Lucinda Lavender: ah yes have watched it before...
    Calvino Rabeni: but we didn't get too deeply into it
    Lucinda Lavender: that is interesting in itself
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, vulnerability is a good topic; i kind of embrace it with this avatar
    Rhiannon Dragoone: it can be scary & exhilarating
    Lucinda Lavender: well I feel I should listen to it once more to really remember...what was said there before
    Lucinda Lavender: just imagining the most vulnerable situations...
    Lucinda Lavender: today I fed my mother in law
    Lucinda Lavender: with a little plastic spoon.
    Lucinda Lavender: that is popping up as a potential situation of vulnerability...
    Lucinda Lavender: being fed as an older person
    Lucinda Lavender: Rhi scary and in a position of being seen fully
    Lucinda Lavender: nothing hidden
    Calvino Rabeni: Mitzi appears to be looking around
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm interested in the difference

    Calvino Rabeni: between the people who put their RL picture and facebook page right in their SL profile
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Mitzi doesn't know what she is doing ...!
    Calvino Rabeni: and the others who say "don't even ask"
    Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
    Lucinda Lavender: I will come back if I can...RL calls...sorry I did not notice the bell...
    Calvino Rabeni: That's ok C - actually I didn't either!
    Lucinda Lavender: thanks for being all...
    Calvino Rabeni: Goodnight Cinda
    Rhiannon Dragoone: nite Cinda!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: nice to see you cinda
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I feel I have many good reasons for being somewhat reserved about revealing much about myself as an opening bid ...
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a GREAT opening bid though
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, i wouldn't reveal much, don't, in my profile here or in facebook; or anywhere, really
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: But, little by little, through interacting here, I have revealed much. But my profile is purposefully rather empty
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm kind of in between
    Calvino Rabeni: Little by little .. a collage knowledge of you emerges
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, as you feel less vulnerable
    Calvino Rabeni: to make the information available only to people who pay attention and remain in relationship over time
    Calvino Rabeni: this is a good strategy
    Calvino Rabeni: but its based in part on humans having limited capacities
    Calvino Rabeni: you have a good memory Mitzi
    Calvino Rabeni: suppose there were an AI program
    Calvino Rabeni: that could integrate everythng on public record about someone
    Calvino Rabeni: and infer an artificial persona from it
    Calvino Rabeni: almost instantly
    Calvino Rabeni: such a thing was portrayed in
    Calvino Rabeni: Caprica
    Calvino Rabeni: a science fiction series
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh yes! I watched a number of episodes of that show ... very interesting actually
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: So you were saying ... suppose there were such an AI program and ...?
    Calvino Rabeni: It would undermine a lot of our natural strategies for managing vulnerability
    Calvino Rabeni: which in part depend on not having good memory and not having fast inference
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, another angle on it
    Calvino Rabeni: transparency vs. secrecy
    Calvino Rabeni: or confidentiality
    Calvino Rabeni: The talk in the guardian group is coming around toward recognizing the uses of things like confidentiality
    Calvino Rabeni: (a kind of compartmentalization)
    Calvino Rabeni: and slowing down as a practice
    Calvino Rabeni: both of these contradict other assumptions

    Rhiannon Dragoone: how is that a problem, Cal; we all use pseudonyms here, so there shouldn't be a problem in confidentiality and in recording
    Calvino Rabeni: that are sort of "operating assumptions" of what we do in SL, in this medium, and in technological culture in general
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm still thinking Brene Brown, with a possible segue into normalcy / deviancy
    Calvino Rabeni: To answer your last question ... nothing is a problem, there are just effects and consequences
    Calvino Rabeni: we compartmentalize identity
    Calvino Rabeni: and then create complex structures that need to be managed
    Calvino Rabeni: so Rhiannon is a compartment separate from whoever you are in real life
    Calvino Rabeni: you manage Rhiannon and keep her separate
    Calvino Rabeni: yet the Rhi identity accumulates karma or reputation or whatever in the social sphere in which she interacts
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, quite so
    Rhiannon Dragoone: lke earlier when uli helendale was here; she was the one who i quoted to get Calvino Rabeni: the dilemma there is analogous to the same, for the other "parts" of your cluster of "I"'s
    Calvino Rabeni: When I first created Calvino
    banned from PI; so our karmas have consequences here in sl
    Calvino Rabeni: I felt like it could be freer
    Calvino Rabeni: but over time I didn't want to "pollute" the image I'd created
    Calvino Rabeni: and thus became burdened or responsible for its maintenance
    Calvino Rabeni: and its entropy or whatever
    Calvino Rabeni: just like housekeeping
    Rhiannon Dragoone: right
    Rhiannon Dragoone: say listen got to log
    Calvino Rabeni: TC Rhiannon of the Birds - fly well
    Rhiannon Dragoone: ty
    Rhiannon Dragoone: and nice meeting you Mitzi
    Rhiannon Dragoone: and take care Dor
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Cor
    Cor Wylder: bye Rhi
    Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs
    Calvino Rabeni: Well
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: bye Rhi
    Calvino Rabeni: Some lag tonight !

    Calvino Rabeni: Recommended meditation mood music for this segment - http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MrVozdra#p/u/17/TAiI0UpxjvA
    Calvino Rabeni: There's a whole chain at that link but not a player, you need to click the next box
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: whoa ... everybody split!
    Calvino Rabeni: They blew out of here like smoke
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: The music *IS* nice
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Cal, I should be going .... have lots of neglected responsibilities nagging at me tonight
    Calvino Rabeni: OK Mitzi - glad to see you - take care :)
    Cor Wylder: .
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Bye Cal ...

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