2011.01.13 01:00 - Boredom Is Interesting

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Calvino Rabeni, Observerm Resident, oo0oo Resident, Susan Aloix and myself

    Introductions and Susan's new guardianship role:

    oO0Oo Resident: I'll say hi Zen, as I'm waiting for the fog to clear :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Sam :)
    Zen Arado: how are you this morning?
    oO0Oo Resident: Glad to be here. Nice to see you. A bit raw.
    oO0Oo Resident: and you Zen? OK?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: don't see the message about the bell
    oO0Oo Resident: I don't either
    Zen Arado: mustn't be working
    oO0Oo Resident: hi observerM
    Zen Arado: I'm always tired in the mornings
    Zen Arado: Hi Observerm
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Susan
    Zen Arado: Hi Susan
    Zen Arado: congratulations - I hear you are a new guardian
    Zen Arado: this Pab place needs a lot of guardians
    Zen Arado: so many meetings
    Zen Arado: I have been doing it over a year now

    Susan asks a very guardian type question - is into the role already :)

    Susan Aloix: ohhh wow Zen.....well i hope to get to a few per week.......may i ask what you have gained mostly from PaB or being a guardian?
    Zen Arado: not sure
    Zen Arado: thinking
    Zen Arado: Hi Cal :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Cal
    Susan Aloix: :)
    Susan Aloix: Hi Cal :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Susan
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Zen! Good to see you
    Zen Arado: being totally honest - not sure
    Susan Aloix: :) thats still interesting Zen :)
    Zen Arado: I like talking to people is the main thing for me probably
    Zen Arado: have been given new perspectives I suppose
    Susan Aloix: I'm not really sure what it is that draws me to PaB yet.......i know there are many qaulities i like...but im still working it out. I think i like being involved in a committed group...thats appealing
    oO0Oo Resident: Congradulations Susan on becoming a Guardian
    Zen Arado: yes
    Susan Aloix: Yeah....love talking too Zen......and thanks Samuo :)
    oO0Oo Resident: :)

    'Existential Ache' :

    Zen Arado: we spend a lot of time analysing ourselves don't we?
    Zen Arado: what am I here for?
    Zen Arado: who knows ?
    Zen Arado: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: return to center
    Zen Arado: are there any answers?
    Zen Arado: I'm coming to the end of 'spiritual' systems I think
    oO0Oo Resident: questions seem to multiply
    Susan Aloix: Some of us Zen......and i love how this space has been created to just lean more seriously or playfully into it...and chat about it.....
    Zen Arado: so many people telling me the 'way'
    Susan Aloix: Yes Samuo...i find that too.
    Zen Arado: they sure do
    Zen Arado: the more you go into things the less certainty there is
    Zen Arado: in my experience
    Susan Aloix: A lot of people with perspectives.......choosing for me is a deep existential ache...and i guess is what signifies a morally alive being.........rather than just following
    Calvino Rabeni: How've you been Samuo?
    Zen Arado: 'deep existential ache' I like that Susan
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm tuned into it also

    Boredom - what is it? :

    Zen Arado: with me it's just boredom :)
    Zen Arado: or resistance to life
    Calvino Rabeni: Existentially, boredom is among the more painful human emotions
    Susan Aloix: Yeah Zen...its a kind of anxiety most people fly away from and hide in *certainty*......i like certainly...but most of the time the things im certain about i know they are just liked baked sand on the beach....that feet can easily crush it..........perspectives are fragile .......
    Susan Aloix: boredom is a symtom lol
    Zen Arado: wonder what it is exactly
    oO0Oo Resident: nice images Susan
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: or we hide in the false certainty of beliefs
    Susan Aloix: yes cal........boredom is very interesting
    Susan Aloix: thank you Samuo :)
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Zen Arado: oh - thought it was boring :)
    oO0Oo Resident: only at PaB
    Zen Arado: I think it is resistance to life
    Zen Arado: we're not happy with what is happening
    Zen Arado: ?
    Zen Arado: wonder if it means the same thing to me as others?
    Susan Aloix: Yeah.....i think its to hide in certainty.....sometimes its the only thing we have...i don't know if there is much support for flexible thinking and being open to new perspectives...thats why this kind of group is so valuable....
    Calvino Rabeni: nods yes
    Zen Arado: yes
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm
    Susan Aloix: Are you asking what boredom means to us Zen?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Susan Aloix: great question....
    Zen Arado: is it like depression?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes indeed
    Zen Arado: only not as bad?
    Zen Arado: kids say ' I'm bored' a lot
    Zen Arado: and they have so much to entertain them nowadays
    oO0Oo Resident: I think of boredom as more neutral, but experienced in different ways.
    Zen Arado: different causes?
    Calvino Rabeni: what is the experience like, of coming "out of" boredom?
    Zen Arado: we get interested in something?
    Susan Aloix: i think its the lack of support to *seek* things out.......my guess is boredom can be about insufficient external resources to fulfil ones curiosity and goals.....but it can also be about not having sufficient support inside yourself to pursue your goals......or having been exposed to negative consequences earlier on.....and so we hover in a *smaller* world being bored........(sorry if thats too wordy).....
    Susan Aloix: Cal...great question...*coming out of boredom*
    Susan Aloix: fascinating transition
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, for me it's getting engaged in something I'm interested in, with good attention in an outward direction, and feeling part of something bigger than myself, feeling something within myself drawn outward by it
    Susan Aloix: :)
    Zen Arado: fascinating Susan
    Susan Aloix: Yes interesting *neutral* Samuo........i like that
    Calvino Rabeni: Well said, Susan
    Calvino Rabeni: internal support is part of it
    Zen Arado: 'could you elaborate on' support inside yourself' Susan?
    Calvino Rabeni: being able to rise to the occasion
    Zen Arado: I notice lately how much I miss in these meetings
    Susan Aloix: *part of something bigger than myself* - i so relate to that. I feel less constricted in the non-bored place......thats very close to my experience of *not-bored*....i feel more than my *skin -bound * self
    Zen Arado: and boredom can be conditioned?
    Susan Aloix: :) great questions
    Susan Aloix: very much so Zen........
    Calvino Rabeni: I can .. suppose part of not being bored is, expressing enthusiasm .. internal support would be the energy to do that and the ability to clear contradicting oppressive feelings
    Susan Aloix: scrolls up
    Zen Arado: so boredom can be a kind of contraction into ourselves away from the world?
    Calvino Rabeni: Or knowing something well enough to feel confident of the terms of interacting with it
    Calvino Rabeni: Agree with that, Zen
    Calvino Rabeni: It might be for legitimate reasons
    Zen Arado: it's a state of mind ?
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe something is weighing on a person's emotional mind
    oO0Oo Resident: or a state of abiding awareness, that does not contract maybe
    Calvino Rabeni: the boredom could be taken as a sign of needing attention to some part within oneself

    Dealing with boredom:

    Zen Arado: so what's a good way to cope with boredom?
    Calvino Rabeni: Another good question
    Zen Arado: heh - everyone is so encouraging this morning :)
    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps breaking up collapsed somatic patterns
    Calvino Rabeni: stretching, moving, breathing
    Calvino Rabeni: at least preparing the body for the same patterns
    Zen Arado: 'collapsed somatic patterns'?
    Calvino Rabeni: it would do when genuinely motivated to engage with things in a positive way
    Zen Arado: bodily activity helps?
    Calvino Rabeni: very much so
    Susan Aloix: Yes Zen. *support inside yourself*....they are things like the accumulation of experiences that were stimulating in healthy ways.....and as cal said in many cases involving activities with others.....that accumulation of postive experiences where we are not bored becomes a thing that can give us positive momentum - usually access through remembering......
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: those memories are resources too
    Susan Aloix: (just one example of a support inside us)
    Calvino Rabeni: ability to recall them is also a resource
    Zen Arado: bodilt activity is hard for me :(
    Zen Arado: when you get old you get lost im memories
    Zen Arado: know people who live in the past too much
    Zen Arado: brb
    oO0Oo Resident: i feel boredom in one sense as acting as either relief, or irritation at the interface of watching the mind. This in the context of meditation practice. And it could be that with radical acceptance the atmosphere is boring too, but not in an uninteresting way?
    Calvino Rabeni: memories are great depending on how they play in the body and imagination
    Susan Aloix: yes cal...its like we can get trapped in the identity of *bored-self*...like a remote control for a TV that is stuck on boring shows...and the other channels are locked up. We need ways to find those other channels where there is aliveness. But having said that sometimes boredom is also a longing to go silent into oneself and a need for spaciousness and to tune into the world and nature.....meditation always releives any boredom i get.
    Susan Aloix: scrolls up
    Calvino Rabeni: Well one "meditation" practice is to get *really interested* in the pattern of boredom
    Calvino Rabeni: which can transform it
    Susan Aloix: yes cal ..body is such a lovely place to start
    Calvino Rabeni: Right, nice metaphor about switching channels
    Zen Arado: back - had to pay window cleaner
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes I take boredom also a a signal that something internal is asking for good attention
    Susan Aloix: [01:37] Calvino Rabeni: the boredom could be taken as a sign of needing attention to some part within oneself (yes yes yes)
    Calvino Rabeni: Soul retrieval, perhaps :)
    Susan Aloix: Samuo - radical acceptance and boredom - brillant!!!
    Zen Arado: great answers
    Susan Aloix: :) takes a breath
    Zen Arado: so you stay with the boredom and just notice it?
    Susan Aloix: yes great all parts of the dialogue
    Calvino Rabeni: I wouldn't say "just notice it" because - attention *changes* things and I feel it important to give being to those changes
    Calvino Rabeni: "give being" .. interesting notion
    Zen Arado: investigate it then?
    Zen Arado: what is it?
    Calvino Rabeni: more like ... all that it takes to have it "be"
    Zen Arado: where is it?
    Susan Aloix: yes..........noticing it....becoming its friend by watching it.....all its nuances (with support such as PaB or journaling...or some other tool)
    Zen Arado: how does it feel?
    Calvino Rabeni: 'yes, getting friendly, even supportive with it
    Zen Arado: where is the feeling?
    Zen Arado: and then it goes away because you are now interested?
    Zen Arado: most would fight boredom with some activity I suspect?
    Zen Arado: more and more activities
    Calvino Rabeni: well, I think "transform" rather than "fight"
    Calvino Rabeni: change from the inside out
    Zen Arado: displacement activities?
    Zen Arado: is that a good thing?
    Zen Arado: we fill our lives with games etc
    Zen Arado: toys
    Calvino Rabeni: That's not a preferred choice in my opinion, but sometimes useful
    Zen Arado: can you just sit and do nothing?
    Calvino Rabeni: Making the best of the "available" choices
    Zen Arado: not evem meditate?
    oO0Oo Resident: there's the boredom I might try to get away from, then there is the boredom to relate to fully, which leads to vividness and the richness of being. Discursive mind wants to run away from boredom.
    Zen Arado: one of the reasons I am here is boredom
    Zen Arado: I want interesting people to talk to
    Calvino Rabeni: It can happen here
    Calvino Rabeni: interest reflects interest
    Zen Arado: it is a great motivator too then?
    Susan Aloix: well said Samuo
    Zen Arado: can't remember what 'discursive' means
    Zen Arado: ?
    oO0Oo Resident: the grasping for entertainment of the mind I guess Zen. thinking of how lonliness relates to boredom, as I feel that a fair amount
    Susan Aloix: discursive.....the minds grand and multi-layered narratives it loves to weave about the world.....in its attempt to construct it
    Zen Arado: ah great word
    oO0Oo Resident: yes Susan
    Susan Aloix: yeah it is
    Susan Aloix: we are weaving a lovely conversation here.....im enjoying this...this is so nice
    Zen Arado: thinking boredom is something to face not displace
    oO0Oo Resident: :0
    oO0Oo Resident: oops!
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Zen Arado: maybe it is an illusory mind construct
    oO0Oo Resident admires Susans typing speed, and others pace of mind and dicernment.
    Susan Aloix: exactly zen...but *facing bordom* is always going to be unique for each of us (gosh i just got deja vu) lol
    oO0Oo Resident: cool
    Calvino Rabeni: facing is an interesting body image
    Calvino Rabeni: it has a feeling of opposition in part
    Zen Arado: is depression an illusion too - starting to suspect this?
    Calvino Rabeni: the image I get is, running alongside the boredom like runners on the same team
    Zen Arado: lots of these mental states seem mind generated
    Susan Aloix: :) yeah....just hit me as i as typing...and yes Cal.....like to hear more about that.....(and i think i type slowly...usually miles behind Samuo lol)...

    Where IS boredom?

    Calvino Rabeni: no not mind generated, .. also held in the body .. also communicated as forms of social knowing, so that's a somewhat expanded definition of "mind" that adds to its normal sense
    Zen Arado: noticed the connection with loneliness Sam
    Calvino Rabeni: in other words, not something you can "handle" cognitively
    Susan Aloix: what cal said :)
    Zen Arado: maybe originally mind generated though?
    Calvino Rabeni: by our ancestors?
    Zen Arado: yes or earlier episodes laid down in memory
    oO0Oo Resident: lol Susan!
    Susan Aloix: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: unless I decide "all is mind" .. a metaphysical idea I'm not comfortable with, I wouldn't go along with "originally mind generated" .. but in what sense do you mean that, Zen?
    Zen Arado: well - emotions are generated by thoughts aren't they?
    Calvino Rabeni: you may be right that a chain of mental habits plays a role
    Calvino Rabeni: No zen, we have a synergy in my opinion
    Zen Arado: yes - 'mental habts'
    Calvino Rabeni: not an A then B then C
    Susan Aloix: Zen.....thats a huge area.....thoughts generating emotions...or emotions generating thoughts
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, it goes every which way
    Zen Arado: ok
    Susan Aloix: (great area of discussion too ) :)
    Zen Arado: what about the connection between loneliness and boredom then?
    Zen Arado: sure Susan
    Calvino Rabeni: back and forth, up and down, between me and others, pinging between the different functional levels like thinking, emotion, moving, or more rarefied levels
    Susan Aloix: deeply connected......certain kind of boredom is at its heart a place of loneliness
    Zen Arado: maybe what I mean is the states aren't 'real'
    Calvino Rabeni: People find solitude interesting, maybe loneliness boring
    Calvino Rabeni: the one has a sense of connection, the other of disconnection
    Zen Arado: but produced and thus can be seen through and dispelled
    Zen Arado: we could make loneliness interesting too
    Susan Aloix: boredom and loneliness dispelled? not going to happen
    Susan Aloix: sorry not sure if i followed your comment there zen
    Zen Arado: but meditation - just staying with and investigating can help dispel the states?
    Calvino Rabeni: they aren't so much dispelled as - you just take a different holistic pattern and leave the other one
    Zen Arado: if you investigate loneliness as a state and try to work out why it is different from 'aloneness'
    Zen Arado: you kind of de-reify them Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: awareness can have a global effect of coordinating other capacities
    Calvino Rabeni: but those have to be brought into play
    oO0Oo Resident: one must go through, I think Zen, but there is a leap not to get rid of or eliminate anything, or indulge it for that matter as well. There's something compassionate about the running alongside image....
    Calvino Rabeni: better to focus on reifying something new than de-reifying, in my opinion
    Susan Aloix: dispel the states? i think we become friends with the states...not sure things disappear.......its a bit like a landscape to me.......that we can be isolated on the mountain top....or bored in the bottom a small tiny well........or joyously involved with others riding horses through open fields.....but we have not lost the mountain nor the well......we just increase our sense of self........
    Zen Arado: well put Sam
    Zen Arado: and Susan
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes susan
    Calvino Rabeni: there's nothng to be gotten rid of
    Calvino Rabeni: the landscape just gets bigger
    Zen Arado: so I stay bored and lonely but learn to appreciate it ? :)
    Calvino Rabeni: or our ability to "travel" the landscape also
    Susan Aloix:
    Calvino Rabeni: appreciation / acceptance is an enabling ability
    Calvino Rabeni: That sounds great to me Susan
    Zen Arado: good idea Susan - sorry if I interrogate too much
    Susan Aloix: scolls quietly....some lovely comments up here
    Susan Aloix: its wonderful you have a skill for great questions Zen...
    oO0Oo Resident wants to fly to Florida, and see if Zen will keep company with me. Then wonders, how long until they get bored of each other :)
    Zen Arado: I think that would be interesting Sam :)
    oO0Oo Resident: You ask the questions that I am thinking Zen, so ty
    Zen Arado: I am not easily bored anyway

    Susan suggests a 3 minute meditation - good idea:

    Susan Aloix: three mins? can someone time it for us?
    oO0Oo Resident: in a boring kind of way lol
    Zen Arado: ok I will
    Susan Aloix: < will need to go a couple after the 3 min meditation
    Susan Aloix: ty Zen :)
    Susan Aloix: have we started?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Susan Aloix: k
    Zen Arado: good idea Susan about meditation
    Calvino Rabeni: felt beneficial to me
    Susan Aloix: pleased to hear....:) for me as well
    oO0Oo Resident: yes, ty
    Calvino Rabeni: Using the second life screen as a meditation object ... a practice I've not done a lot of
    Susan Aloix: most welcome..:)
    Zen Arado: I am reconsidering my spiritual practice atm
    Zen Arado: but I do that all the time I guess :)
    Susan Aloix: i do that daily Zen lol
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: mm yes
    Susan Aloix: LOL
    Zen Arado: maybe should have more faith and less thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: ah how about faithful thinking :)
    Susan Aloix: please don't stop thinking :) but yeah what cal said :)
    Calvino Rabeni: have your cake and eat it too
    Zen Arado: is there such a thing?
    Zen Arado: ty
    Calvino Rabeni: yup (said Calvino)
    Susan Aloix: speaking of cake......i need to have dinner....:) wonderful to talk with you all!!!
    Calvino Rabeni: A pleasure, Susan :)
    Zen Arado: dinner?
    Susan Aloix: yes your spirit is so alive zen.....indeed
    Zen Arado: nice to talk to you Susan
    Susan Aloix: LOL Samuo
    Susan Aloix: thanks all....was lovely.....bye for now...will carry this conversation with me :)
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Susan Aloix: Namaste
    Zen Arado: bye Susan
    Susan Aloix: awww thanks Samuo. :) you guys are going to great to be around....(so not bored lol)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: I better go too
    Calvino Rabeni: hehe
    Zen Arado: thanks for coming
    Zen Arado: enjoyed discussion
    Calvino Rabeni: End of the line, everyone out it seems :)
    Zen Arado: thanks Cal and Sam :)

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