2011.01.14 07:00 - Disorienting Thought Experiments

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The guardian for this session was Eliza Madrigal, who found posting it afterward and reading the rhythm anew, quite enjoyable! Thanks to Darren, Bleu, Yakuzza, Corvi & Pema. Intrigued by the title? Skip to the end if you like but much more fun to wander. :)


    Darren Islar: something wrong with the bell?

    Eliza Madrigal: the bell at the beginning doesn't ring to end

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think it never goes on time directly

    Darren Islar: k
    Eliza Madrigal: it started as a way so as not to interrupt greetings :)
    Darren Islar: ah.... got it
    Eliza Madrigal: but since greetings are continuous... hm...
    Darren Islar: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hihi, i often wonder at which amount of ppl i should stop :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but that´s one of the most fortunate´s problems to have i guess :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden suggested IM greetings/goodbyes sometimes... seems a good idea
    Darren Islar: :)
    Darren Islar: .
    Pema Pera: oh, I sort of like the idea of greetings :-)
    Bleu Oleander: I think greetings add to the sessions
    Bleu Oleander: bonds
    Eliza Madrigal: mostly, yes... sometimes there are moments to keep going
    Eliza Madrigal: to maybe finish into a discussion a slight bit more :)
    Darren Islar: yes, I agree with you there Eliza

    Eliza Madrigal: never get away from moment-to-moment decisions it seems
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: discretion
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed...
    Eliza Madrigal: feeling the space and boundaries

    Darren Islar: sometimes somebody tries to slip out or in, and still gets about ten hi's or bye's
    Darren Islar: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe Darren, true... we are lavish...
    Eliza Madrigal: it is our best way to smile and hug
    Pema Pera: :-)

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: here's a point about hello's and goodbyes....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: they are information
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: about our states and our connection

    Darren Islar: true Eliza
    Darren Islar: so we do it anyway :)

    Bleu Oleander: E.M. Forster "only connect"

    Darren Islar: well going to say goodbye to you all :)
    Eliza Madrigal thinking.... information about our states... our environments?
    Bleu Oleander: bye Darren
    Corvuscorva Nightfire waves
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Darren :)
    Pema Pera: bye Darren!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye darren
    Darren Islar: bye everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: SMILE AND HUG
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Darren Islar: :)

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: our states...like are we present and engaged, or inward and thoughtful?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: for instance
    Eliza Madrigal: can you hear that in greetings?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the speed of it, or the style, or whether it happens or not
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and how that differs frome the speaker's usual

    Eliza Madrigal: so our familiarity... you can see in time
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
    Pema Pera: very interesting point, Corvi!
    Eliza Madrigal: familiar blocks built in different ways

    Pema Pera: well, time for me to get some sleep; past midnight here
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!
    Bleu Oleander: night Pema ty
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Pema
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sleep well, Pema.
    Pema Pera: thanks again!


    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes i wonder about the value of ,,how are you", in some cases it seems mandatory and means nothing to ask but if it´s missed it´s an open indicator for a conflict
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

    Eliza Madrigal: I may be working on a variation of the same puzzle bleu brought up this morning...
    Bleu Oleander: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: which has to do with trust and not feeling compelled to use words
    Eliza Madrigal: to hold back and see what else comes up

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Bleu Oleander: yes

    Bleu Oleander: how much our words are conditioned by our culture and the way we were brought up

    Eliza Madrigal: and whether that can really happen in a virtual setting when our acknowledging one another does depend on saying explicitly "I see/hear you"
    Eliza Madrigal: true, bleu
    Bleu Oleander: yes, so much is missed without the visual cues
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the cues are still, there, in a way, I'd posit
    Bleu Oleander: yes to some degree
    Eliza Madrigal: yes? in the way you describe before?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

    Eliza Madrigal: in many sense courtesy and care is about space whether in a virtual or so-called real world

    Bleu Oleander: body language is stylized though so no nuances
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think that if you are engaged enough in sl...you use the same places in your brain to process words that you would other social cues
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and process things like speed of typing
    Eliza Madrigal: filling in...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: as body language
    Eliza Madrigal: hm
    Bleu Oleander: I think body language is more fundamental than words though
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles, nods...yes...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is.
    Eliza Madrigal: when we begin to see how much we fill in, as with those reading paragraphs that are full of misspellings but easily readable... it should point to something
    Bleu Oleander: an amazing amount of communication if you think about it

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I've heard yakuzzas real life voice, and seen you Eliza
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I've never met Bleu
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I can hear all three of you speak as I read your words
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am probably quite wrong in how I interpret some of the data
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... yes... though the words appear all at once in a line
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I would be with body language, too!
    Bleu Oleander: wrong can happen face to face too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I feel trapped by former patterns, ie, if I usually type fast and jump in, but then don't, I become concerned that someone will take it personally....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
    Eliza Madrigal: not know that I'm listening or that what they are conveying is meaningful to me even if it is
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :D
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb bruce
    Bleu Oleander: hey Bruce wb
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Bruce and his fish.
    Bruce Mowbray: ty!

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think that fear might lead to me nodding and smiling alot in either life.
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, yes that's what I mean...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods

    Yakuzza Lethecus: but talking about voice -> pointing to 12PM :)
    Bleu Oleander: social expectations?
    Eliza Madrigal: or our ideas of social expectations
    Bleu Oleander: ah yes, Yaku, voice today?
    Eliza Madrigal: and genuine care

    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, the session will be happening tonight as last week, last week bertram and aph were there
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: I'll try to make today
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i still work on a few open subject suggestions

    Eliza Madrigal: I guess resilience is important in both contexts... ability to shed one context for another and to let people off yesterday's hooks (we used to talk about benefit of the doubt, hasn't come up in a while)

    Eliza Madrigal: a topic box Yaku?

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmmmm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, that wouldn´t be too bad either :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: last week i had:
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Interesting subjects could be on the subjects of: - what makes a pab session a good one ? - contemplative terminologie, what the heck is being, contemplation or even meditation - meditation: what´s ur goal and what would you like to gain, ,,awareness", a moment of comfortable disconnection of our unhealtyly perceived thoughts or something totally different ?

    Bruce Mowbray: so voice session here at 12:00 slt.
    Eliza Madrigal: hey, cool
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: what the heck is being? hahahha
    Bleu Oleander: nice Yaku
    Bleu Oleander: or my fav, "the self"
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the distinctions that come up from those questions...
    Eliza Madrigal: putting one another 'on the spot' in an open way :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: last week we ended up talking about the medium of voice itsefl, so it´s just to bring some suggestions but it´s still open
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t hope for bleu or eden to bring in the subjects :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well at least not always :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: hehe

    Eliza Madrigal: let eden bring the singing :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I would have liked to have heard your poem reading Ya!


    Eliza Madrigal: your question bleu, about fresh words...
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: it made me think of the phenomenon of "I've got it!" and then you share it and it deflates...
    Eliza Madrigal: or the person looks blank
    Eliza Madrigal: and one is left with a "hm... what happened there?"
    Bleu Oleander: we pack a lot into our words that may not come across
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins

         I'm struck too by how different perceptions are, as in this instance, as I heard Bleu articulating clearly during the time session!

    Bleu Oleander: like my words this morning ..... couldn't get them out
    Bleu Oleander: knew what I meant but couldn't convey

       Here Yakuzza recited a wonderful poem, with a relaxedness and pacing that was truly exceptional... 

    Eliza Madrigal: ooooooooooo Yaku, that was beautiful
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...that was. I feel that way about singing every time, Bleu
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: like I KNOW the tune
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I can't make it come out
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or drawing
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the picture in my head is NOT what makes paper
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm yes, definitely drawing...
    Bleu Oleander: yes drawing a good analogy for me

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Is that poem written anywhere, Yak?

    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes we simply set stages for others or even for another time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, it´s by heidegger

    Bleu Oleander: singing also, I sing great in my head, not so when it comes out :)

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'd love to read it..I was just hearing your voice, enjoying it, and not making meaning of it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://thefloatinglibrary.com/2008/0...-by-heidegger/

    Eliza Madrigal: :) Bleu
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the 2nd poem
    Bleu Oleander: oh I didn't hear
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mpds
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods to Blue
    Bleu Oleander: are we in voice?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yak is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i was for a sec
    Eliza Madrigal: Ya was for a moment

    Bleu Oleander: do you need voice enabled to hear?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah
    Bleu Oleander: don't see any white dots
    Eliza Madrigal: you don't have one for me bleu
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i will log out for a while, i will be on line the whole evening later
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bfn
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Ya :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Yak
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: thank you for the poem.

    Eliza Madrigal: on the other topic...
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Yaku.
    Eliza Madrigal: (forgive longish paste)
    Bruce Mowbray: I need to run into RL town now.

    Eliza Madrigal: my earth shattering kaboom thought yesterday, was that if the world was existent it wouldn't take effort to experience it.. we wouldn't be worn down by the accumulation of the day... but to another seemed like a "yeah sure of course' heheh...
    life is funny, off beat. for me it was a reason wu wei is 'natural'

    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone.
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bruce :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye Bruce!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, thoughtfully.
    Bleu Oleander: takes a lot of effort in some ways other ways not
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been puzzling over that in some sense, for a while... lightly puzzling... especially since in contemplative teachings asking 'why' a lot isn't encouraged :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: processing that is taking some effort
    Eliza Madrigal: but what sort of effort? are there different kinds?
    Bleu Oleander: (still don't have voice or see others as having voice, maybe need to re-log, but will worry about that later)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes when you sign on later you may have it fixed!

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: well that's what I was processing
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what it means to experience the world as a "being"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and what it means to experience the world as a theoretically corporal being

    Eliza Madrigal: interesting, yes!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It IS earth shattering to consider the difference, to me.

    Bleu Oleander: what does it mean to make the distinction between being and thoretically corporal being?

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: in fact, it has the same disorienting effect that Pema's ideas have for me.
    Eliza Madrigal: disorienting effect is a perfect way of describing that....


    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles as she considers the effect of singing, drawing or saying what she means by making that distinction.
    Bleu Oleander: exactly
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: When I say Pema's ideas, I really meant..Pema's thought experiments
    Bleu Oleander: better ways in some ways
    Eliza Madrigal nods

    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes it is simple though, like see this, but simply don't use your eyes

    Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers "simple, but not easy!"

    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it is letting the birds out of cages to some extent...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.

    Eliza Madrigal: (suddenly the SL birds seemed louder)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: haha!
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Bleu Oleander: hearing lots of FL birds
    Eliza Madrigal: the FL birds seem quiet here today... maybe a little cold, flying around
    Bleu Oleander: first read "FL" as florida hehe
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: well, it fits!
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Bleu Oleander: so there's SL and Florida hehe
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: each alternative realities for sure
    Bleu Oleander: funny
    Eliza Madrigal: sharing the sense of off-beatness actually helped a great deal...
    Bleu Oleander: AZ seems to be in it's own alternative reality atm
    Eliza Madrigal: how so? e
    Eliza Madrigal: -e
    Eliza Madrigal: media attention and such?
    Bleu Oleander: a lot going on politically and yes media
    Bleu Oleander: emotions are high
    Eliza Madrigal: AZ is quite a center in the last few years
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Bleu Oleander: a lot of tension
    Eliza Madrigal: locally,you feel that Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: yes, very much so
    Eliza Madrigal: neighborhood talks?
    Bleu Oleander: yes, talking with everyone, a lot of emotion
    Eliza Madrigal: hope that can be channeled to some extent
    Bleu Oleander: at our salons too
    Bleu Oleander: I hope so too
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes you have a big group
    Eliza Madrigal: I imagine lots of diverse perspectives?
    Bleu Oleander: yes

    Eliza Madrigal: easy to feel defensive perhaps, touchy... this is part of the beauty of PaB's 'idea' to me
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
    Bleu Oleander: PaB is definitely helpful
    Eliza Madrigal: benefit-of-the-doubt/space-making dialogue is harder than it sounds
    Bleu Oleander: wonderful to bring different perspectives together
    Eliza Madrigal: yes


    Bleu Oleander: hi Freud
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Freud
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Freud Jungsten: Heya
    Bleu Oleander: well have to go .... nice talking with you .... c u later perhaps?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Blue!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice talking with you too, Bleu, bye for now
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hello Frued
    Eliza Madrigal: funny how our conversation came back to simple manners in a way :)
    Freud Jungsten: osiyo
    Eliza Madrigal: How are you Freud?
    Freud Jungsten: OK...thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: I'lll have to go in a sec too but can linger a few more minutes :)
    Freud Jungsten: You>?
    Eliza Madrigal: pretty well, bit of a cold (seems many with colds lately)
    Eliza Madrigal: but it forces one to slow down
    Eliza Madrigal: we were talking about various things this morning...
    Eliza Madrigal: coming out of the time session
    Freud Jungsten: I know what that is like
    Freud Jungsten: brb

    Then Freud poofed... 

    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Lovely to see you Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and you, Eliza! Bye for now!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) bye for now

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core