2011.01.16 19:00 - Changing Experiences

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The lack of comments is by Calvino Rabeni.

    Calvino Rabeni: Ah good evening o
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello, good to see you druth
    druth Vlodovic: :) hi cal, sam
    Claire Maskelyne: Oh, my... hello.
    druth Vlodovic: hi claire
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Claire
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi claire, druth

    Claire Maskelyne: So what are you three talking about?
    oO0Oo Resident giggles
    druth Vlodovic: <gasp!>
    Calvino Rabeni: So far I believe we were just relaxing..
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you been to a meeting at this pavilion before, Claire?
    Claire Maskelyne: Yes. I used to go much more often, but then I started feeling lost in Second Life and stopped coming in for a while.
    Claire Maskelyne: Perhaps that was a mistake.
    druth Vlodovic: oh?
    druth Vlodovic: why a mistake?
    Calvino Rabeni: It's easy to spend a lot of time in second life and then start to get a feeling like "first" got a little hazier
    druth Vlodovic: :)
    druth Vlodovic: balance I guess
    oO0Oo Resident: hey SopphiaSharon!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Cal, Sam, Druth and Claire
    druth Vlodovic: hi sophia
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening SSL :)
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia smiles at the click for info box, great idea Cal! heh
    Calvino Rabeni: Balance is a nice overall word for it, Druth
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    druth Vlodovic: what brought you back?
    Claire Maskelyne: I don't know. I felt bad about leaving.
    druth Vlodovic: :-) I have this almost irresistable urge to try prying the story out of you
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Well there's a natural urge to want to know people
    Calvino Rabeni: and compare notes or learn
    Calvino Rabeni: curiousity doesn't even know "why" it does what it does :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia admits she became very curious, although doesn't know about what. :)
    Claire Maskelyne: Well, let's see... honestly, I don't know if I can tell it, because it has more to do with personal traumatic experiences outside of SL, and feeling ashamed to return because I felt sullied and ruined.
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Sophia
    druth Vlodovic: oh no
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods and understands
    SophiaSharon Larnia: in a small way maybe
    oO0Oo Resident feels tender heart
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have a lot of hesitency sharing personal things about myself in this group
    Claire Maskelyne: It's not so much this group as it is that I feel unable to bring up the intimate facts without breaking down and crying, to the confusion of everyone else involved.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it's not the people in the group, but part of it is its not the pupose we're here

    Claire Maskelyne: I don't know if I could ever really make anyone understand my feelings, so I don't try to push it.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice to meet you Claire, by the way, I don't think I've met you yet :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and I can say I understand that one!
    oO0Oo Resident: yes, me too
    Calvino Rabeni: It's important for people to feel comfortable with what's revealed and how
    oO0Oo Resident: I agree
    druth Vlodovic: understanding is not always necessary to interaction, as long as negative feelings aren't aroused
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I fell apart before I could share just a little here, didnt have to put myself through that
    oO0Oo Resident nods at Sophia
    Calvino Rabeni: I believe the feeling that others could not understand, is in a way, the pain's way of thinking, but that in truth people's understanding has a great deal in common
    oO0Oo Resident: great point Cal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Star1
    Calvino Rabeni: I sense a good point there Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, a lot of common ground
    Star1 Neox: hi
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Star1
    Claire Maskelyne: Hello, everyone. ^-^/
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Star1
    Star1 Neox: I'm a friend of stevenaia's
    SophiaSharon Larnia: knowing there's common experiences doesnt make it easier in some cases, sometimes you just dont want to hurt others
    oO0Oo Resident: .me smiles at Claire
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi friend of Steveaia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Paradise
    Alfred Kelberry: hey! :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Boxy, Para
    Star1 Neox: she told me much about this group
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Boxy! hi, didnt see you
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: If you're not familiar with the group, Star, you can get a note by clicking on this box on the pool
    druth Vlodovic: I think it is important for each person to learn not to oversympathize on an emotional level
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, there's grass in the pond
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe Boxy
    oO0Oo Resident: That's ingenius Cal, the box
    Calvino Rabeni: During the sessions here the chat is recorded and put on our wiki
    SophiaSharon Larnia: empaths find that very difficult
    Calvino Rabeni: So its good for people to be informed of that
    Calvino Rabeni: Is that OK with you, Star1?
    druth Vlodovic: oh yes :-/ but the alternative is isolation
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yup
    SophiaSharon Larnia: whatcha gonna do
    Star1 Neox: yes, thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: :) thanks
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hello everyone :) waves all round sophia , cal , durth, alfred, claire :)) star1 :) o000o :)
    druth Vlodovic: learn that other people's pain is not your own, and can be dealt with differently
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Alfred Kelberry: para :)
    oO0Oo Resident: there is always more to learn
    druth Vlodovic: "room to grow" :)
    oO0Oo Resident: start where we find ourselves I guess
    Alfred Kelberry: maybe we could add a nice little duck to the pond
    Alfred Kelberry: yellow duckling
    SophiaSharon Larnia: depends on the experiences that formed your frameworks
    Paradise Tennant: smiels at alfred ..like that idea :)
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Or koi, if we got some transparent water
    oO0Oo Resident: you're a quack sometimes boxy!
    Alfred Kelberry: it would quack when you touch it :)
    Paradise Tennant: maybe a moma duck and 3 babies ?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: druth can you same more
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, transparent water. i wonder why it's not yet.
    Alfred Kelberry: para, that's phase 2 :)
    Paradise Tennant: koi would be good chie :)
    Paradise Tennant: chi
    oO0Oo Resident: Gucci
    druth Vlodovic: I'm afraid I don't know much about ducks
    oO0Oo Resident: ;)
    Paradise Tennant: sorry was skipping back to what you were saying about pain
    Alfred Kelberry: yay!
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at the lovely fish
    Alfred Kelberry: cute fishes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oy! koi.
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Alfred Kelberry: this is awesome! i love it
    druth Vlodovic: oh, just it is unhealthy to try to second guess people too much
    Claire Maskelyne: Aww, fish <3
    druth Vlodovic: one person is afraid of saying too much because another is afraid of hearing too much

    druth Vlodovic: it goes around in a circle and lonliness is a result
    Alfred Kelberry: *watches the fishes swimming*
    Claire Maskelyne: Yes, I'm willing to believe that.
    Claire Maskelyne: But there's always the fear of being ridiculed in there.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: We have pain, growth, cute fishes, and concerns about whether communication has positive effects or could lead to more pain
    druth Vlodovic: so ach person must learn to be both tough and compassionate, so fear can be reduced
    Paradise Tennant: always find that dealing with those kinds of situation really helped by remembering how temporary everything is .. even the most tragic and of course the blissful great moments pass too :)
    oO0Oo Resident: cradled in the arms of loving kindness
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: :) yes druth
    SophiaSharon Larnia: listens
    Paradise Tennant: that helps .. picturing the person swathed in tenderness or picturing yourself awash in loving kindness .. buddists are big on visualizations .. think thoughts have the power to heal or harm :)
    Calvino Rabeni: surely, heal or harm
    oO0Oo Resident: with an eye toward any agenda
    Calvino Rabeni: and acts of speech - thought expressed - get power too
    Alfred Kelberry: meep!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thought leading to action
    Calvino Rabeni: as a blessing or a curse depending on whether they heal or harm
    oO0Oo Resident: one has , in a way, only one's inspiration to work with
    Claire Maskelyne: But is that a safe thing to assume?
    druth Vlodovic: lol, of course not
    druth Vlodovic: this is life after all
    Calvino Rabeni: Most things in life are semi-safe :)
    oO0Oo Resident: the discernment has its intelligence
    oO0Oo Resident: part of taking care of oneself
    Calvino Rabeni: or semi-dangerous depending on how one might look at it
    druth Vlodovic: I like semi-safe, the change in emphasis shows that even the worst mistake can have positive outcomes
    Calvino Rabeni: I suspect most errors are on the side of conservatism, of assessing risk as being more than they are
    oO0Oo Resident: what is trying to survive
    Calvino Rabeni: The koi in the pond looks nice
    Alfred Kelberry: transparent water please
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at sophia yes they are beautiful
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I was just thinkingabout the ice and koi
    SophiaSharon Larnia: dont they need to stay warm :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I think making the water transparent would causesome flicker problems maybe
    Paradise Tennant: yes they do need warmth
    SophiaSharon Larnia: with hair and stuff :D
    Calvino Rabeni: The pixel fish will survive the chill of the pixel ice
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe Cal
    oO0Oo Resident: Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yayaya
    oO0Oo Resident: The roots of the word have been defined as follows: super- "above", cali- "beauty", fragilistic- "delicate", expiali- "to atone", and docious- "educable", with the sum of these parts signifying roughly "Atoning for educability through delicate beauty." [http://is.gd/9OppL3]
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow! I didnt know that
    Paradise Tennant: wow
    Alfred Kelberry: this is so not optimal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: eh?
    Star1 Neox: Night, thank you
    Calvino Rabeni: Good night :)
    oO0Oo Resident: night Star1
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Star :)
    druth Vlodovic: since atone is corrective action you could also say it is reeducating yourself to accept beauty and fragility
    druth Vlodovic: a better fit for the movie :)
    Paradise Tennant: huge smile loved that sentence druth
    oO0Oo Resident smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: That brings up a good point though - whether something is, or ought to be, optimized
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes great, druth
    Claire Maskelyne: Optimized?
    Calvino Rabeni: Boxy stated about something - i was not sure what - being optimal
    Paradise Tennant: optimization is so subjective and .. not always about acceptance ..
    Paradise Tennant: think there times when it is better to just be .. or let be
    Alfred Kelberry: it's about ease of use and efficiency
    Calvino Rabeni: of what, Alfred?
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, same with "what" :)

    Alfred Kelberry: of that
    Calvino Rabeni: There are times , yes Paradise ... and then the challenge of discrimination about what the current time needs more
    Calvino Rabeni: Balance without compromise perhaps
    Calvino Rabeni doesn't get what Boxy's "that" refers to, though
    oO0Oo Resident: An image/phrase of Tsoknyi Rinpoche's (a Tibetan Buddhist teacher), was introduced to me today that reminded me of the phrase, "Play as Being". The quote was, "happiness for no reason"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
    Calvino Rabeni: When I hear that it means to me "no justification required"
    Calvino Rabeni: although I might find a reason
    Claire Maskelyne: I'm not sure why... but I'm crying right now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ~Claire
    Calvino Rabeni looks at claire softly
    oO0Oo Resident holds Claire in heart
    Claire Maskelyne: I just... feel this profound sense of loss.
    Paradise Tennant: listens
    Claire Maskelyne: Like hodling open a door for someone that never comes.
    Alfred Kelberry: *pats claire's back*
    Calvino Rabeni: I resonate with that, Claire
    Paradise Tennant: smiles if you hold the door open long enough someone will ..come if only your true self :)
    oO0Oo Resident: It's almost a description of human life altogether, and the warriorship is the holding open the door
    Claire Maskelyne: What do you do with a feeling like that? Particularly when you have been dealing with sadness for so long, for so many reasons, that you fear bringing it up will only drive others away?
    Paradise Tennant: yes ! O
    druth Vlodovic: it sounds cold, but sometimes you have to fill yourself, be the person who never leaves you
    Paradise Tennant: be sad .. be sad together with others .. live is a mix ..
    oO0Oo Resident rightly or wrongly feels tears coming also
    Paradise Tennant: *life
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at o
    Calvino Rabeni: When that happens Claire, I like to remind myself that it kind of proves that I have a lot in common with others, that they have pain to resonate with mine
    Calvino Rabeni: no right and wrong in those feelings .. often I find them epiphanies
    Claire Maskelyne: But when you feel stuck in them?
    Paradise Tennant: sadness lifts to its own schedule :) sometimes for very deep loss .. it is there .. a constant companion ..who makes things taste dry .. takes the colour out of everything .. but who also slows you down .. enough so that you can heal
    Calvino Rabeni: When I feel stuck .. it's kind of about how I was holding the pain
    Calvino Rabeni: not the pain itself
    Calvino Rabeni: so I try to hold it lightly and tenderly
    Paradise Tennant: yes cal :) !
    Calvino Rabeni: if that doesn't work .. getting into an experience of something completely different :)
    Calvino Rabeni: but knowing, "I'll be back!"
    Claire Maskelyne: What sort of experience?
    Calvino Rabeni: Fun, or just being productive on something, or compassion for others, or something not related to that pain, that I feel good about
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, changing experiences changes perspectives

    oO0Oo Resident: I'd like to suggest that during the braek we could send Claire a bit of well wishing
    Calvino Rabeni: I liked that suggestion o
    Paradise Tennant: we could do a 5 min ton glen session .... find it seems to help people .. often
    Calvino Rabeni: it was good for me too :)
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its true that if you leave a location, you still bring yourself, and you cant get away from that, but i can say from experience that even just leaving the house can help alot
    Calvino Rabeni: Switching gears, freeing attention, then I know I'll be better if and when I return to it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I meant doing something different (is really tired!)
    Paradise Tennant: I like physical stuff .. running .. physical work housework .. painting rooms .. cleaning closets is great . to do when you are either in a state of sorrow
    Paradise Tennant: or fear of losing someone to illness
    Claire Maskelyne: Have you lost someone to illness?
    Paradise Tennant: yes several people but time has passed ..
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good night all, off to bed for me :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: take care !
    Paradise Tennant: and ... while for sure you do fee quite gutted .. by the loss ... it goes away .. life gets bright again
    druth Vlodovic: 'night sophia
    Paradise Tennant: good nite sophia
    oO0Oo Resident: rest well SSL
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    druth Vlodovic: I find the loss comes and goes, but it gets gentler each time, if dealt with gently
    Paradise Tennant: yes it has layers
    Paradise Tennant: acceptance .. is necessary ..
    Claire Maskelyne: I can understand that.
    Claire Maskelyne: But grief is funny for me because I only experience it in certain situations.
    Claire Maskelyne: No, it's not grief for another I'm feeling now...
    Claire Maskelyne: It's worry that I'm not living happily enough, that even my inner world fails to provide a safe sanctuary.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi everyone ...
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya mitzi .. so nice to see you :)
    oO0Oo Resident: hi mitzi
    druth Vlodovic: lol, anxiety anxiety, oh how familiar
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi Paradise! and hi to all of you ...
    Calvino Rabeni smiles at mitzi - hey :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'm happy to be here but I came by to say that I cannot stay tonight ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Short and sweet !
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... also that my priorities are shifting and my schedule, and I'm not sure I can be a regular at this meeting anymore ... I would like to find a way to do so, but will take a few weeks before I can see how ... perhaps another meeting might work better schedulewise
    Paradise Tennant: smiles just nice to see you mitzi :) and at least wave
    Calvino Rabeni: We can do that Mitzi :)
    oO0Oo Resident: what a thoughtful expression mitzi
    Paradise Tennant: thursday nites ? !
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Are there any other 7pm meetings that most of you attend?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Thursday might be great ...
    Paradise Tennant: or Mondays ! sophia's session or steves on Wednesday
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't do mondays, but Thurdays are great
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Thursdays at 8pm at this same location?
    Paradise Tennant: eos 's is tues and lucinda is friday and pema is sunday there is wide choice
    Claire Maskelyne: Pema? What time on Sunday?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Pema is Saturday I thought ...
    Calvino Rabeni: the session starts at 7 but you can come at 8 no problem
    Paradise Tennant: oh right
    Paradise Tennant: sleepy here
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: sorry my mistake -- 7pm Second Life time ... 8pm my time

    Claire Maskelyne: I miss Pema... we used to talk a lot more.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Well then, hope to see all of you soon!
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at mitzi
    oO0Oo Resident: :) mitzi
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I must be off ... I will miss you and wish you a deep and provocative discussion
    Calvino Rabeni: ah I forgot you're one zone away
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: thank you o0000o ... I feel your presence, thank you.
    Paradise Tennant: wish you joy in whatever direction your life goes :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, take care Mitzi :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: And all of you.... oh, you'
    Claire Maskelyne: Goodbye, everyone...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: oh you'll all be seeing me! I'm just having to adjust my schedule ... this is not a big goodbye
    Paradise Tennant: good nite claire
    Paradise Tennant: namaste :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Pleasant dreams all!
    druth Vlodovic: 'nigth claire
    oO0Oo Resident: ty Claire, for your genuiness
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Claire
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks,see you again I hope
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Claire Maskelyne: Actually, I'm not leaving right now... I was under the impression that the rest of you were.
    Claire Maskelyne: ^^;
    Calvino Rabeni: ah ok good
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: lol, I do that all the time
    Paradise Tennant: smiles ok :)
    Paradise Tennant: yes can be confusing when there is a swirl of good byes
    druth Vlodovic: I was just thinking about the role of anticipation in seperating us from sheer appearence
    druth Vlodovic: anticipation is entirely a product of our inner world
    Calvino Rabeni: anticipation is very important in the life of all beings, animals, humans
    druth Vlodovic: when we place it between us and what is, we have conflict if it isn't fulfilled in the way our imagination tells us it should
    Calvino Rabeni: we live in a very anticipatory world
    Calvino Rabeni: we are anticipatory "systems" by design
    Calvino Rabeni: even amoebas are like that
    druth Vlodovic: which means we live in am imaginary future
    druth Vlodovic: which may never arise
    Calvino Rabeni: and when it works, Great
    Calvino Rabeni: and when it doesn't we roll our eyes and feel a little stupid
    Calvino Rabeni: scared maybe
    Calvino Rabeni: for getting off track
    Calvino Rabeni: being in the groove feels really good
    Calvino Rabeni: anticipating reality and aligning with it
    druth Vlodovic: or we allow the disappointment to block the joy of the present
    Calvino Rabeni: No need to "add on"
    Calvino Rabeni: that's where "dropping" is a good move
    Calvino Rabeni: When we can't drop things, they have a momentum seemingly counter to reality, we persist our will
    Calvino Rabeni: in an inaccurate way
    Calvino Rabeni: is that possibly, a definition of attachment?
    druth Vlodovic: lol, attachment to an anticipation
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: every attachment seems to be an anticipation
    Calvino Rabeni: an idea that is more rigid than reality?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking of the "mirror" analogy .. the mirror doesn't slow down what it reflects ..
    Paradise Tennant: yes it is a life long practise to be present to this moment to control our thoughts to now and to let go ..of the future
    Calvino Rabeni: although minds are more specific and more active than mirrors
    Calvino Rabeni: I think of it as letting go of the immediate past, the ideas that turned out not to be aligned with reality
    Calvino Rabeni: not letting them drag along behind
    Calvino Rabeni: when they are not relevant any more

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Dorje, I don' think you've been to this group before? You can get an info note by clicking on the box here in the pool
    Paradise Tennant: I appreciate the past .. love photos .. remembering .. things that ..happened .. the funny things but .. it is swooshed .. gone .. no longer relevant .. where you are right now is what has meaning ...and not to say you do not plan for the future .. but you don't live there ..
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hello dorje :)
    Dorje Indigo: Thank you all - I am here to listen
    Calvino Rabeni: The conversations here are recorded and published on the group wiki - is that OK with you ?
    Dorje Indigo: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks :)
    Claire Maskelyne: Would you rather live in the future or the past?
    Claire Maskelyne: My constant worry is that what I remember isn't 'true'.
    Calvino Rabeni: Except, paradise ... I think, sometimes if we're not "present" enough (and who is) then we get some benefit from learning about the past through memory, what we couldn't "get" in the moment
    druth Vlodovic: I like to live now
    druth Vlodovic: even in bad tiomes if I focus "now" tightly enough it can be a refuge
    Calvino Rabeni: Living now carries an obligation then to be really"present" - or else it turns into like, living life looking through a keyhole at a tiny sliver
    Calvino Rabeni: the narrow moment,not the greater present moment
    druth Vlodovic: oh I don't do it all the time, how drab a world with no past or future
    Calvino Rabeni: Skills and options then
    Paradise Tennant: blinking
    Calvino Rabeni: When Paradise blinks :)
    Calvino Rabeni: something's happenign
    Calvino Rabeni: it perks me up :)
    Paradise Tennant: when you bring your attention to now .. you are brining you .. a composite of your experience your past .. so how I look at it .. is not really narrow
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: well could say processing .. but I really do blink
    Paradise Tennant: and more restful ..
    Paradise Tennant: and productive
    Calvino Rabeni: :) really yes, brain and eyes and eyelids work together :)
    druth Vlodovic: sometimes you can push most of yourself aside
    Paradise Tennant: yes let the idea fill you up
    druth Vlodovic: each direction you look, ad how you look, has colour
    Calvino Rabeni: What would that be, druth?
    Paradise Tennant: so you can see it clearly
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh .. yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking about two important basic ideas that are hard to remember .. that it's possible to have choice about one's experience, and the idea of how many sources of "help" there are
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    Calvino Rabeni: That's what I though listening to druth's last statement
    Calvino Rabeni: HOW you look
    Calvino Rabeni: and choosing the direction
    Calvino Rabeni: color
    Calvino Rabeni: representing finding the help or benefit
    Calvino Rabeni: of directing attention
    Calvino Rabeni: to something that is available

    Calvino Rabeni: but would otherwise not have entered awareness
    Paradise Tennant: yes when you trust ... fully present .. always find whatever you really need it arrives .. if only it is the right thougth :)
    Paradise Tennant: or even better ..no thought !
    Paradise Tennant: spaciousness
    Claire Maskelyne: The right thought?
    Calvino Rabeni: No attached thought, is how I take that. Mind considers manifold possibilities at once. The experienced mind can be more effective
    Paradise Tennant: yes the thought you need to make it work
    Paradise Tennant: to get throught whatever it is you in
    Calvino Rabeni: so dropping the type of thoughts that don't really help
    Calvino Rabeni: makes more room for the ones that do
    Calvino Rabeni: in the spaciousness that holds them
    Paradise Tennant: no spaciousness is no thought
    Calvino Rabeni: it is the container for thought, to use an analogy
    Paradise Tennant: it is .. like calm abiding
    Calvino Rabeni: what makes thoughts work better, makes them possible
    Paradise Tennant: a place of peace .. still .. mind ...
    Calvino Rabeni: and gives them a way to connect and relate and do some good
    Calvino Rabeni: spaciousness and thoughts don't interfere or contradict each other
    Calvino Rabeni: "The right thought" .. that sounded hmmm,
    Calvino Rabeni: like it made some invitations that I might not want to accept
    Calvino Rabeni: yet there are choices to be made
    Calvino Rabeni: some thoughts seem to "work better" than others
    Calvino Rabeni: if the spaciousness is taken into account
    oO0Oo Resident thinks the Koi do indeed look beautiful
    Calvino Rabeni: A highly conscious thought about licorice scotty dogs is probably more worthwhile than a dull thought about the true meaning of the universe
    oO0Oo Resident: prajna dispenses with the labels
    Claire Maskelyne: Maybe I chase after that kind of dull 'deep' thought too much.
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Claire Maskelyne: I always feel the need to look outside myself to be sure what I'm thinking is 'legitimate'.
    oO0Oo Resident: suspect there's nothing at all wrong with you Claire
    druth Vlodovic: lol, "I'm having illegitimate thoughts about licorice scotty dogs."
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a worthwhile impulse Claire
    Calvino Rabeni: "reality check"
    Calvino Rabeni: validating my thoughts with what I can see of any other intelligent beings who happen to be around
    druth Vlodovic: but being negatively judgemental is habit forming, and hard to rid oneself of
    Calvino Rabeni: yes it is a habit
    Calvino Rabeni: we might even call it a practice
    Calvino Rabeni: that has gone too far
    Paradise Tennant: it is hard to describe but .. being still ...kind of melting into just being like butter without a busy mind .. is incredibly helpful .. for your spirit your body .. your outlook ..it lightens everything every aspect
    Paradise Tennant: love licorice ..never had salty dogs will look for them
    oO0Oo Resident melts into paradise
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: sigh speaking of melting . it well past the witching hour .. and I should scoot ..

    Calvino Rabeni: oh, they are little dog-shaped candies of chewy black stuff
    oO0Oo Resident: witch on para!
    druth Vlodovic: ah, we'll miss you until we met again paradise
    oO0Oo Resident: be well
    Paradise Tennant: fi it so ok claire >> i will add you to my ton glen list .. and visualize you sitting peaceful in a sun beam with a light heart :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles namaste my friends :)
    Claire Maskelyne: Goodbye. ^-^/
    Calvino Rabeni: A lot of time what we talk about sounds pretty general or abstract but, I believe it's often referring to skills or insights of real practical importance
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Paradise
    oO0Oo Resident mmm
    Claire Maskelyne: I can't stand licorice myself.
    druth Vlodovic: lol
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: I only like it every now and then, but other times I dislike it ... maybe for a year or so :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Then when not liking licorice, its the fruity flavors that appeal
    Calvino Rabeni: there must be a long term biological cycle in me
    Calvino Rabeni: heh
    Claire Maskelyne: I remember a time when I ate so many sour patch kids that all the taste buds peeled off my tongue.
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Claire Maskelyne: And all I could think was 'Man, that's awesome'.
    oO0Oo Resident: rofl
    Calvino Rabeni: owwww
    Calvino Rabeni: Some people smoke cigars
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Coffee is really biter
    Calvino Rabeni: bitter
    Calvino Rabeni: somehow I came to like it a lot
    oO0Oo Resident: just say no.... to sour patch kids
    Calvino Rabeni: never got a taste for beer, however
    Calvino Rabeni: and it's bitter too
    oO0Oo Resident: ;)
    Claire Maskelyne: I've also developed a taste for Shigekix gummies, i.e. the sourest candy known to humans. Or monekys.
    Claire Maskelyne: *monkeys even
    Calvino Rabeni: Do monkeys eat them?
    Calvino Rabeni: oh, pet monkeys, monkeys in the wild, or food-lab monkeys .. ?
    oO0Oo Resident: 4 out of 5 monkeys prefer Shigekix gummies
    oO0Oo Resident: I wonder how beer and cigars and sour patch kids and monkeys mix?
    Calvino Rabeni: The monkeys go wild
    Calvino Rabeni: Balance is always important of course
    oO0Oo Resident: the truth druth spoketh of
    Calvino Rabeni: in flavors as in life
    Calvino Rabeni: yes that truth
    druth Vlodovic: lol, now I'm imagining a monkey holding a beer and cigar chewing...
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: hehe
    druth Vlodovic: I really have to get on with learning to draw
    Calvino Rabeni: It would be fun to be a quick cartoonist
    Calvino Rabeni: but take time to develop the skill
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe there's a web site for it...
    Calvino Rabeni: It could be a viable business
    Calvino Rabeni: Go to http://draw-me-a-cartoon.com/
    Calvino Rabeni: then enter in the text box
    Calvino Rabeni: "monkey chewing cigar and drinking beer"
    Calvino Rabeni: somewhare a compulsive or unemployed cartoonist whips that out
    Calvino Rabeni: and you click the PayPal button
    Calvino Rabeni: boom, commerce at work
    druth Vlodovic: oh yes!
    oO0Oo Resident: do you know xkcd Cal?
    oO0Oo Resident: could see you getting witty around something along those lines
    Claire Maskelyne: I'm sorry!
    Claire Maskelyne: My computer has been acting up lately, and I had to restart it.
    oO0Oo Resident: np

    oO0Oo Resident: my taste buds had gone completely numb anyway
    druth Vlodovic: lucky you, it says the domain name is open
    Calvino Rabeni: I do know xkcd - it's great ... here's one I like .. even though it is about the isolation we referenced earlier
    Calvino Rabeni: http://xkcd.com/817/


    Claire Maskelyne: Playing Tappi Bear right now. Very fun game series.
    druth Vlodovic: lol, and now we've come full circle
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Claire Maskelyne: To what?
    druth Vlodovic: back to allowing fear and anticipation to isolate us
    Calvino Rabeni: Except now with koi... they are doing the circling
    oO0Oo Resident: Nice xkcd Cal
    druth Vlodovic: it seems to me to be the meaning of the comic
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it shows it graphically
    Claire Maskelyne: Isolate?
    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking, how showing or naming, can either some freedom from something, or sometimes reinforce it
    Claire Maskelyne: Augh, I'm not actually typing now.
    druth Vlodovic: the comic is of two people, each dreaming, and each in the other's dream bubble
    Calvino Rabeni: but fear and isolation are "background" kinds of things - they live in the air, in the surround
    druth Vlodovic: but looking lonely
    Calvino Rabeni: so sometimes foregrounding them in a humorous way helps
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the cartoon shows how people mutually dream their collective isolation
    oO0Oo Resident melts a little more into paradise ;)
    druth Vlodovic: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: its title is "Mutual"
    Calvino Rabeni: the joke is - it is showing a cooperative act that feels like one of isolation.
    Claire Maskelyne: I see... that makes sense.
    druth Vlodovic: each person dreams of being close to others...
    Calvino Rabeni: very much
    oO0Oo Resident: yes
    oO0Oo Resident: we keep the door open
    Calvino Rabeni: dreams of being close in certain ways
    Calvino Rabeni: its our nature to do so
    Calvino Rabeni: how ever one thinks that nature comes about
    oO0Oo Resident: so we can forgive ourseles
    oO0Oo Resident: it's like a door that keeps opening, and opening, and opening
    Calvino Rabeni: the cartoon shows, two people in an intimate, but unconscious relationship, imagining that the other does not dream of them when - the cartoon shows - they are
    oO0Oo Resident: that is my experience of depression
    Calvino Rabeni: How can the dreaming-spell be broken?
    Claire Maskelyne: Is this meant to be a lesson for the reader, as you interpret it?
    Calvino Rabeni: It could be, I don't know the author's intention
    Calvino Rabeni: a fine sense of irony

    Calvino Rabeni: reading a large number of xkcd comics, I get a certain feeling about what the author is up to
    Claire Maskelyne: And what's that?
    Calvino Rabeni: A lot of restless, creative mind energy, breaking the spell of things that don't make sense by pointing them out
    Calvino Rabeni: liking a lot of perspectives and variety
    oO0Oo Resident: capabillity with hopefulness, pointing to poignant limitation
    Calvino Rabeni: kind of using the mind for helping people get out of common traps they get into by doing things automatically
    oO0Oo Resident: with heart
    Calvino Rabeni: yes I get that about it too
    oO0Oo Resident: a noble cause
    druth Vlodovic: lol, I wonder if calvino has got the whole "play" thing down
    Calvino Rabeni: hoping maybe, if the mind is awakened to something the heart's common sense or yearnings may then be released into play
    druth Vlodovic: perhaps the artist is simply having fun
    druth Vlodovic: or expressing feelings
    Calvino Rabeni: its fun to express one's values
    Calvino Rabeni: I get a feeling from it
    oO0Oo Resident: Super cal ifragilisticexpialidocious
    Calvino Rabeni: who's behind the pen
    druth Vlodovic: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: oh nice reconnection, sam
    Calvino Rabeni: that cartoonist does what, one per day?
    Calvino Rabeni: like a cartoon blog
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a lot of energy
    Calvino Rabeni: and makes the cartooning a practice
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm
    oO0Oo Resident: much energy there
    druth Vlodovic: not everything has a purpose, or perhaps the purpose is there in evrything we do, even if we don't think so
    Calvino Rabeni: LOT of energy
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes druth, I agree more with the second part
    oO0Oo Resident smiles at Druth
    Calvino Rabeni: not a narrow, preconceived, instrumental purpose ... more like a meaning
    Calvino Rabeni: and a lot of hidden dimensions to the meaning
    Calvino Rabeni: but
    Calvino Rabeni: it might be a good idea to leave them mostly hidden
    druth Vlodovic: it is good to explore
    druth Vlodovic: but it can also be good to stop exploring
    druth Vlodovic: for a little
    Calvino Rabeni: the exploring is the fun part ... not so much the little sketchy maps the explorers make
    Calvino Rabeni: balance :)
    oO0Oo Resident: not to sharpen an already sharp sword though
    Calvino Rabeni: no, better to dull it by use
    Calvino Rabeni: before resharpening it
    oO0Oo Resident smiles at circle with warm heart, feeling refreshed from opening, and feeling arrivals, while still opening further, and departing
    druth Vlodovic: ah, I'm for bed
    Calvino Rabeni smiles bye
    druth Vlodovic: thank you all for an invigorating evening :)
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks, a pleasure, druth
    druth Vlodovic: good luck with your endeavours claire

    Calvino Rabeni: And Clare also .. glad you stopped by
    druth Vlodovic: and whenever you don't feel like talking to anyone, call me, I'm hardly anyone at all :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) (!) nice

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