2011.01.17 07:00 - Circle of Being: moonwalking with Pema

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku. 

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi satia
    Bertram Jacobus: hi dear and hi pema ! :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Yaku, Satia, Bertram!


    Satia Ruby: hi pema, yaku, bert
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eden
    Pema Pera: Hi Eden!
    Bertram Jacobus: hi eden :-)
    Eden Haiku: Hi Bertram, Yaku, Pema and Satia :)
    Bertram Jacobus: where are you pema - in princeton ?
    Eden Haiku: Have you been here before Satia?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes she was eden ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi riddle
    Pema Pera: Hi Riddle!
    Bertram Jacobus: hi riddle
    Pema Pera: spinning and spinning . . . .
    Pema Pera: weaving and weaving . . .
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Riddle :)
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Eden, Pema, Yak, Bert, satia
    Riddle Sideways: is this tooooo distracting?
    Pema Pera: (nobody answers . . . . all mesmerized . . . . hahaha)
    Eden Haiku: No, I like seeing movement!
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Pema Pera: and you sure outcompete the fountain!

    Eden Haiku: This morning is another Circle of Being session.
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. i didn't see, that that is your avatar riddle. and no - i like it ...
    Pema Pera: we should let you grow fuzzy during the 90 second breaks, Riddle . . . .
    Pema Pera: magnetic pole reversal
    Eden Haiku: I'm going to quote your email Pema, in which you give us a new focus for our new explorations:

     " What does it mean for you, concretely, to try to briefly drop what you have (in terms of identifications, beliefs, whatever you normally rely on) and to be naked of any reference points, for at least a short while? How does that feel? Could that tell you anything about what you/we really are?"  Pema                                                                                                       

    Bertram Jacobus: great
    Bertram Jacobus: nice
    Pema Pera: Hi Corvi!!
    Bertram Jacobus: hi "corvi" ! :-)
    Eden Haiku: Who would like to start?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all!
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Corvi
    Eden Haiku: HI Corvi, nice to see you :)))
    Bertram Jacobus: i could do that if you all like and nobody else want to start - and will we go clockwise ?
    Eden Haiku: Do you know about the Circle of Being sessions?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no, I'm sorry.
    Eden Haiku: Yes, Bertram, go ahead, and yes, afer you clockwise that would be Yaku, Pema, Eden, Riddle, Corvi and Satia.
    Eden Haiku: Will give info to Corvi in IM


    Bertram Jacobus: so i start. okay. and there are a few questions ...
    Bertram Jacobus: the first thing which came into my mind reading the questions now was : it's not so difficult for me or at least doesn't seem to be difficult, because i don't have very nice things i could be proud of ...
    Bertram Jacobus: next was and is that i know some teachings from trungkpa rinpoche who sometimes stresses that being unsure and not save would be wonderful, precious and great
    Bertram Jacobus: i don't agree totally to that but i think i understand a bit what he means


    Bertram Jacobus: so a kind of middle path again - as the buddha himself recommended, as it is said at least, seems to be the best choice for such so to say relative questions and actions and affairs ...
    Bertram Jacobus: another question was "how does that feel" - and i have the impression, that it feels really well, comfortable, refreshing
    Bertram Jacobus: and last question i understood : what does it show of our real being ? i think, that may be in it' essence beyond words. ty and yaku pls



    Yakuzza Lethecus: i pass for now



    Pema Pera: Today, after lunch, I read in one of my favorite books, one by Longchenpa, a Tibetan Buddhist who lived about 700 years ago
    Pema Pera: and I'm always struck by how much more direct and vivid it is to read a great writer from the past directly (even in translation) compared to reading about that person by someone else, no matter how well intended the commentator is
    Pema Pera: Today I was struck by two short sentences, after reading several pages: Since one has already arrived without taking a step, the very path to follow has already been traversed.
    Pema Pera: (Longchenpa is big on "starting at the end")
    Pema Pera: I then closed my book and went for a long walk, watching the world and myself from that perspective
    Pema Pera: there being nothing that needs to be done
    Pema Pera: tasting how everything is already as it is, fully, in each moment
    Pema Pera: I felt an enormous sense of relief, a kind of home coming
    Pema Pera: of course, I knew the message, but sometimes you can hear it as if for the first time . . . and it still is with me, now.
    Pema Pera: (your turn, Eden)


    Eden Haiku: Thank you Pema.,
    Pema Pera: hi Bruce!!
    Eden Haiku: Posting again the focus of the day,  for Druth and Corvi and for myself really :)
     "What does it mean for you, concretely, to try to briefly drop   what you have (in terms of identifications, beliefs, whatever you normally rely on) and to be naked of any reference points, for at least a short while? How does that feel? Could that tell you anything about what you/we really are? " Pema



    Eden Haiku: The way I do the "dropping" is usually with a timer, when I'm at home.
    Eden Haiku: I also do it randomly throughout the day, when going somewhere, even talking with other people
    Eden Haiku: but how I do it is clearer when using the timer Eden Haiku: sometimes taking notes, not always
    Eden Haiku: usually I freeze
    Eden Haiku: and then I start moving like in a dance
    Eden Haiku: I close my eyes
    Eden Haiku: I go to my inner body so to speak
    Eden Haiku: I just feel the peace
    Eden Haiku: or the turmoil
    Eden Haiku: or sometimes I look outside
    Eden Haiku: I'm taken by some little thing outside
    Eden Haiku: I still remember tenderly a tiny caterpillar from last summer as I write this
    Eden Haiku: Done. Your turn Riddle :)


    Riddle Sideways: inside a breathe, between the switching from in to out
    Riddle Sideways: there is an immediate, I do not exist and we are all
    Riddle Sideways: when the little gong goes off. wherever/whenever I Have nothing
    Riddle Sideways: am all


    Riddle Sideways: then start the breathe cycle and/or come out of mediation cycle
    Riddle Sideways: there was no ref point
    Riddle Sideways: observing a graft/chart but from outside
    Riddle Sideways: on re-entry some strong ref appears
    Riddle Sideways: a word (write it down) a sight (see it) a feeling (feel/be it)
    Riddle Sideways: then go on to the next life
    Riddle Sideways: usually Laugh out loud
    Eden Haiku: :)
    Riddle Sideways: thanks (next)Pema Pera: :-)


    druth Vlodovic: pass, bruce?


    Bruce Mowbray: My turn?
    Bruce Mowbray: ok.
    Eden Haiku: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: When I do the "drops," I seem to . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: how shall I say it ?
    Bruce Mowbray: surrender. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: It is not so much that I follow the standard practice of "dropping my reference points" ...
    Bruce Mowbray: as it is allowing a larger Totality to hold me for a while --
    Bruce Mowbray: I suppose, in contrast to my feeling I have to "hold" all of the stuff myself. . .
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, full group today
    Bruce Mowbray: and in "surrendering to the totality " -
    Eliza Madrigal is quiet and listening, apologies
    Bruce Mowbray: I discover an almost infinite trust there - that always surprises me.
    Bruce Mowbray: so I let the "silence" hold ME -- rather than my holding it.
    Bruce Mowbray: and it is almost always while "being held" that real openings happen for me.
    Bruce Mowbray: [done for now]
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh one more thing...
    Bruce Mowbray: I do use the Mindfulness Clock that's available on-line - for 15-minute breaks.
    Bruce Mowbray: [done now - thanks]



    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Eden Haiku: Your turn Corvi,
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...still trying to imagine how to say stuff.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: when I do 9 seconds of dropping, it feels effortless...and I don't have a lot of words to say about it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: when I imagine dropping...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it feels like I see how it could be...to drop...and I am terrified...still hanging onto the window sill of my house looking out at all/nothing.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's it.

    A bit of confusion

    Bertram Jacobus: satia seems to be still afk - she wrote it IM a few minutes ago ...
    Bertram Jacobus: so i will write only a few more words, additional to them before , which i wrote already
    Eden Haiku: ah ok. Let us open the floor for everyone to speak now then. Unless Yaku or druth would like to speak now?
    Bertram Jacobus: first thing i thought is : that it much more happens to me then i'd do it
    Bertram Jacobus: oops. sry. okay
    druth Vlodovic: thanks, no
    Eden Haiku: Go ahead Bertram:)


    Bertram Jacobus: another thing is that i would be interested in what we drop. and a last remark
    Bertram Jacobus: may be that i don't feel very much need to drop, because, as may be said already before, it seems to happen so often to me like automatically
    Bertram Jacobus: ty


    Pema Pera: perhaps there is a connection with what Bruce said
    Pema Pera: about being held, trust, surrender
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Kryptos
    Bertram Jacobus: yes
    Kryptos Firehawk: hello
    Bertram Jacobus: i felt it like that
    Pema Pera: normally we need something / somebody to trust in
    Pema Pera: some kind of object, something to have
    Bertram Jacobus: hy kryptos. take a seat with us if you like ! :-)
    Pema Pera: but strangely, when we shift to Being
    Pema Pera: there seems trust built in, implied , very hard to put words on


    Kryptos Firehawk: thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: "seems to be trust built in" -- Yes! Thank's what I meant when I said I was "surprised"
    druth Vlodovic: like when a toddler stops leaning on things and simply walks
    Bruce Mowbray: surprised not to "have to do anything" to "make the trust happen" -- It is a given of Being.
    Pema Pera: nice angle, Druth!
    Eden Haiku: Welcome Kryptos. It is his first session in Play as Being.
    Kryptos Firehawk: thank you
    Bruce Mowbray: :-)
    Pema Pera: and Eden's caterpillar . . . it all comes spontaneously forth . . .
    Bertram Jacobus: i gave him a nc ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Welcome Kryptos
    Kryptos Firehawk: thank you Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Riddle Sideways: and blub swimming in the pool
    Bruce Mowbray: Blub is playing shark.
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Pema Pera: :-)



    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think what comes up for me around that trust...is that I don't WANT to give up my house yet
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm
    Bruce Mowbray: another quality of the "dropping" for me, is the surprise that it is always available.
    Bruce Mowbray: regardless of timers, settings, or troubles. . .
    Eden Haiku: Hi Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden :))
    Bruce Mowbray listens to Corvus. . .
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and if I give myself time to think about dropping..it feels like an either or thing...."drop or don't drop"
    Pema Pera: how about keeping the house but opening the door (or at least a window)? :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: heh...I'm always peeking out the window...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you know what it feels most like is diving
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if I just do it, I'm fine
    Pema Pera picturing Corvi diving out her window . . . .
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles
    Pema Pera: do you have a pool like here?
    Eden Haiku: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Could you fall backwards out the window, Corvus?
    Riddle Sideways: yes, the thoughts thoughts thoughts while standing at the end of the diving board
    Bruce Mowbray: That would be more like what dropping feels like for me.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: to both
    Pema Pera: hahaha, Riddle!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins
    Riddle Sideways: Pema, 2 things struck of what you wrote


    Taking a long walk at the end

    Riddle Sideways: 1. funny that you were already at the end/last step of your path
    Riddle Sideways: and then went on a long "walk"
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: (the Universe moves in mysterious ways, and so do I)
    Riddle Sideways: 2. the more directness of reading direct writings of an author
    Pema Pera: (perhaps I walked backwards, like Bruce facing away from the window)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Riddle Sideways: not the analysis
    Eden Haiku: moon walking Pema?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Riddle, the direct force -- whether reading Spinoza, Seneca, Longchenpa
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps that was a walk that Pema started at the end of.
    Pema Pera: such a difference compared to commentators
    Riddle Sideways: would agree that the direct experience of you being is even more valued then the writings of another
    Pema Pera: it's even like a physical difference in the air
    Pema Pera: you can sense that they *saw* something and want to talk about it
    Riddle Sideways: yes, we all see/saw/are something and came to PaB to talk about it
    Pema Pera: yes


    Eden Haiku: Interesting point Riddle
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Pema Pera: Bertram just IMed me, in German, and I volunteered to translate: he said that he has similar impressions from authors and people in general who are enlightened or close to something like that.
    Pema Pera: and that he also enjoys such reading more than anything else.
    Bertram Jacobus: ty pema ...
    Eden Haiku: Maybe we could ask Kryptos who is joining us for the first time, what it is he would like to report?
    Eliza Madrigal: in reading we can walk through hallways and visit other times :)
    Satia Ruby: ups sorry
    Kryptos Firehawk: not sure what i can report on ...reading wiki site
    Kryptos Firehawk: :)
    Eden Haiku: Putting you on the spot here, hehe
    Bertram Jacobus: lol hi alfi ! :-)
    Alfred Kelberry: oops
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hey, alf!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: grins
    Alfred Kelberry: sorry, corvu. i've landed in your lap :)
    Eden Haiku: "[7:59] Riddle Sideways: yes, we all see/saw/are something and came to PaB to talk about it"
    Pema Pera: hi Alfred!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no worries!
    Alfred Kelberry: hello, pablings :)
    Eden Haiku: Hello Alfred :)


    Yaku brings up an interesting question but it's time to leave for many of us

    Yakuzza Lethecus: but how to relate to the "being other eyes" ? how to come closer to the meaning of others words to those words that cover our essence of being
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey boxy
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alf
    Pema Pera: (it's 1 am here, time to get some sleep)
    Alfred Kelberry: um, is it a circle thing today?
    Bertram Jacobus: bye pema ... and ty ...
    Pema Pera: great circle again, thank you all !!
    druth Vlodovic: sweet dreams pema
    Eden Haiku: Sweet dreams Pema :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Good night, Pema -- and THANK You.
    Eden Haiku: Thank you :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night pema
    Kryptos Firehawk: night Pema
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night, Pema
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Pema :)
    Pema Pera: I'll be dreaming of all of you :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: heh
    Eden Haiku: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: I have to be going too actually.... long time in SL this morning...
    Riddle Sideways: night and bye all
    Riddle Sideways: need to go
    Eliza Madrigal: but happy to make some of what sounds like a wonderful session
    Eliza Madrigal: cant wait to read it
    Kryptos Firehawk: night riddle
    Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza and riddle ! ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Riddle, Everyone. Thanks Eden
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Eliza and Riddle.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye all
    Eden Haiku: Bye Eliza.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone who's leaving
    druth Vlodovic: have fun, both of you
    Kryptos Firehawk: night Eliza
    Eden Haiku: Actually, I'm going to leave also. Wonderful sun here, I need to take some fresh (and cold) air.
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Corvus.
    Bertram Jacobus: (bye corvi) ...
    Eden Haiku: But please, continue. I will get the log :)
    Kryptos Firehawk: thank u eden ... bye
    Bertram Jacobus: bye eden ! ;-)
    Alfred Kelberry: exodus :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Eden.
    Eden Haiku: Have a great day everyone :)
    Alfred Kelberry: nice pants, eden :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eden
    Bertram Jacobus grins @ alfi ...

    [I left at that point but will just add a few titles to make the reading of the log easier]

    Thinking about this wordless process in words

    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, finding the right words for the right thoughts or right states of mind might be the hardest thing in talking about being i suppose
    Bertram Jacobus: to me, being and thoughts and states of minds are different things so to say ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just being is without thoughts
    Bertram Jacobus: so i would talk about all of them separately ...
    **Yakuzza Lethecus: while when i talk i think of about this wordless process in words :P
    druth Vlodovic: finding the words can change the thoughts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: so - why should one find things hard ?
    Bertram Jacobus: wouldn't it be better to take them easy and simple ?
    Bertram Jacobus: and playful (!) ?
    Bertram Jacobus: isn't that possible ?
    Alfred Kelberry: *pokes satia gently* :)
    Satia Ruby: ouch
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Satia Ruby: ã‹¡


    Wisdom and jokes

    druth Vlodovic: I've seen a lot of wisdom presented as jokes
    Bertram Jacobus: where did you see that druth ?
    Bertram Jacobus: - q
    druth Vlodovic: lol, I'm a voracious devourer of webcomics, but you see it everywhere if you look
    Bertram Jacobus: webcomics !? i never saw such ... do you have a nice url perhaps druth ? :-)


    druth Vlodovic: there are hundreds, last evening someone posted a url for XKCD, you can use that as a start and follow links
    Alfred Kelberry: xkcd is awesome
    druth Vlodovic: might be best just to google "webcomics (topic that interests you)" and see what comes up
    Bertram Jacobus: okay. ty ! :-)
    druth Vlodovic: be warned though, you get everything from philosophy to porn (and philosophic porn)
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. that's normal and common and i think we all know that because - it' the net ! ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hi lugh ...
    Lugh Fehr: hey people i just came from work
    Bertram Jacobus: so welcome lugh ! :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Welcome back, Lugh!
    druth Vlodovic: still in your work clothes I see
    Lugh Fehr: tnx :)
    Lugh Fehr: yes its pretty formal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey lugh
    Lugh Fehr: hehe
    Lugh Fehr: heyaa
    Lugh Fehr: haha cool ava kry
    Kryptos Firehawk: hello Lugh
    druth Vlodovic: well, have fun everyone
    druth Vlodovic: I'll see you later
    Lugh Fehr: bbyebye
    Bertram Jacobus: bye druth ! :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, druth!


    Asking Lugh about "dropping" and sharing about the 9 seconds and 90 seconds practices

    Lugh Fehr: so what was the session about today?
    Bruce Mowbray: We've been talking about what ACTUALLY HAPPENS FOR YOU when you do the "drops," Lugh.
    Bertram Jacobus: about this lugh : What does it mean for you, concretely, to try to briefly drop what you have (in terms of identifications, beliefs, whatever you normally rely on) and to be naked of any reference points, for at least a short while? How does that feel? Could that tell you anything about what you/we really are?
    Lugh Fehr: cool
    Satia Ruby: i have to go... bye all
    Lugh Fehr: byebye
    Bertram Jacobus: bye dear ... relax well
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, satia!
    Kryptos Firehawk: how long was it before you all could "drop" these things?
    Bertram Jacobus: i'm not sure about what i can and what i can't kryptos ...
    Bruce Mowbray: We practice the "dropping" every fifteen minutes -- Here at the fountain we drop for 90 seconds every fifteen minutes -
    Bruce Mowbray: and in RL we drop for 9 secs every fifteen minutes.
    Bruce Mowbray: so we have a lot of practice (!)
    Bruce Mowbray: but it is always different for each person.
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Bert. . .


    Lugh Fehr: i think to drop things is to realize that your precious mind is really stupid , entertaining really entertaining maybe the source of most entertainment but still stupid


    Dropping and clinging

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, i still ask myself what and how to drop myself as well :)
    Bertram Jacobus: well said bruce ! but it's like a company to me, the pab ideas and people ... a community ... always changing, for sure
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for me it's really kind of a process to learn to express emotions and thoughts in "any" way to work towards more focus and awareness


    Yakuzza Lethecus sneaks out, bye everyone
    Lugh Fehr: byebye
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Yaku.
    Bertram Jacobus: and there is not much which i could add bruce, sry. it's what i said already before : it more happens to me then i could do something ... what i can do is meditate and try to develop a good motivation in all my actions ... and that may help dropping , finally or /and sooner or later ...
    Lugh Fehr: what do you expect to happen the more you drop?
    Lugh Fehr: in other words whats your motivation
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, dropping the "expecting" is also part of it. . .
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, we can feel better . and i like the expression : end of pain and suffering
    Bertram Jacobus: because clinging very often if not always contains ... problems ;-)
    Lugh Fehr: i think in the long run all dropping is a kind of clinging
    Lugh Fehr: clinging to the want for happiness or one thing or another
    Bruce Mowbray: All dropping is a kind of clinging ? - - -
    Lugh Fehr: yup thats what i think so
    Bertram Jacobus: we can cling on dropping. i agree into that. but finally it should become very natural, like automatically - without a need to "do" it
    Bruce Mowbray: so the dropping itself is clinging?
    Lugh Fehr: their is always a reason behind it
    Lugh Fehr: yup
    Lugh Fehr: if you fight the illusion you still believing in it
    Lugh Fehr: otherwise you wont fight it
    Alfred Kelberry: sorry, gotta go
    Bertram Jacobus: bye boxy
    Lugh Fehr: byebye alf
    Kryptos Firehawk: bye alf
    Lugh Fehr: i think you just have to give up
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Boxy.
    Lugh Fehr: blow out a fuss
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I agree, Lugh.
    Bertram Jacobus: wow - long session this was for me ! : already one hour and 40 minutes ! so i'll leave now a bit and relax ... ty all and have a nice time pls ! *wave* ...
    Bruce Mowbray: That's what I was trying to say when I used the word "surrender," earlier.
    Lugh Fehr: byebye good day
    Bruce Mowbray: . . and also, like falling out of the window backwards.
    Kryptos Firehawk: same to you Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: ty !
    Bruce Mowbray: THANKS, Bert.

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