2011.01.20 13:00 - weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

    Fox Monacular: Hi Aphrodite
    Fox Monacular: Hi Lia
    Lia Rikugun: hello
    Lia Rikugun: how are you?
    Fox Monacular: good, thanks:) yourself?
    Lia Rikugun: oh yes thank you, was just playing a board game with friends :)
    Fox Monacular: wonderful, i love board games! my 2.5 year old already knows what to do with dice:)
    Lia Rikugun: hehe great
    Fox Monacular: what game were you playing?
    Lia Rikugun: hm it is called sagaland
    Lia Rikugun: you have to memorize images and collect cards
    Lia Rikugun: we were laughing to loud and disturbing everybody in the cafe ;)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Fox, Lia
    Lia Rikugun: hi aphrodite
    Fox Monacular: Hi Aphrodite
    Lia Rikugun: so what should be the topic of today?
    Fox Monacular: sounds cool, Lia!
    Fox Monacular: Hi Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi!
    Eliza Madrigal: :D
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Eliza - dont get wet!
    Lia Rikugun: hi eliza
    Fox Monacular: you look radical today:)
    Lia Rikugun: what a nice dress :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: wow. new hair
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks! I'm stretching a bit maybe
    Aphrodite Macbain: nothing better for the joints
    Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't want to interrupt :)
    Lia Rikugun: what would you like to do today?


    experimenting with the appearance in SL

    Aphrodite Macbain: I keep experimenting but never seem to like where I am
    Lia Rikugun: what do you mean aphrodite?
    Aphrodite Macbain: always fussing, changing, experiemtning - with my image. I go from dressed up to dressed down.
    Lia Rikugun: ah
    Lia Rikugun: always changing thats good
    Eliza Madrigal: :) need a middle way
    Aphrodite Macbain: I try and keep my hair and face the same
    Aphrodite Macbain: so I'm recognizble
    Lia Rikugun: hello wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya wol
    Aphrodite Macbain: gtsy
    Wol Euler: likewise
    Eliza Madrigal: three redheads today ...
    Eliza Madrigal: mind if I lower the fountain lia?
    Lia Rikugun: what does this mean eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: when I'm on this viewer it distracts me...
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, like: /9 low lowers the jet
    Eliza Madrigal: It will still mist
    Aphrodite Macbain: It blocks my view too
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Lia Rikugun: ok sure
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
    Lia Rikugun: i dont know how to do that
    Aphrodite Macbain: How do you adjust the fountain?
    Eliza Madrigal: now you do
    Fox Monacular: Hi Wol!
    Wol Euler: hi fox
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) you : /9 low
    Wol Euler: type "/9 help"
    Lia Rikugun: hello eldir
    Eliza Madrigal: HI Cal and eldir
    Wol Euler: hello cal
    Lia Rikugun: nice to meet you
    eldir Resident: Hello, everybody
    Fox Monacular: hi eldir
    Wol Euler: hello eldir, have you been here before?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Cal, Hi Eldir
    Lia Rikugun: eldir have you been here before
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: when you brought up always fidgeting with something I thought you were discussing RL Aph :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I've seen eldir here many times
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Wol Euler: ok )
    eldir Resident: oh yes I have been here, thanks
    Wol Euler: just checking :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) perhaps I do that in RL too!
    Lia Rikugun: ok great
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lia Rikugun: in 3 minutes we have a break
    Lia Rikugun: should we think of an exploration?
    Aphrodite Macbain: fussing about my appearance, never settled


    the exploration for the break: "appreciating our OWN appearance"

    Aphrodite Macbain: how about appreciating our OWN appearance
    Eliza Madrigal smiles, sure!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: (or at least accepting i)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    eldir Resident: SL or RL appearance?
    Wol Euler: which ever seems appropriate :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: well--one may reflect he other
    Calvino Rabeni: appearance as in - the unique way one shows up on one's world
    Calvino Rabeni: in the moment
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- that' nicely put Cal
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Lia Rikugun: and?


    reactions to "appreciating our OWN appearance"

    Calvino Rabeni: that felt powerful
    Aphrodite Macbain: I notice that I am more impressed by what avis say rather than how they look, but seem unable to apply this awareness to yself (Aph)
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting
    Lia Rikugun: in SL or in RL Aphrodite?
    Aphrodite Macbain: what was powerful Cal, the 90 second break?
    Aphrodite Macbain: In SL
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Lia Rikugun: in sl somehow appearances dont matter to me
    Aphrodite Macbain: Because of the ease in whch we can change our appearanc
    Eliza Madrigal: just before meeting people from SL in RL, as I will soon, I stress about bad hair, toe nail bothering me, etc... bit silly :)
    Wol Euler: very human though :)
    Calvino Rabeni: the experience of beauty and grace ... from the inside, not as an image laid onto an object
    Aphrodite Macbain: It is tempting to play with it.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I think 'Oh no, how am I going to make up on the treadmill the last 6 months/years...?"
    eldir Resident: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: that sounds like RL Eliza
    Calvino Rabeni: Fat is Beautiful :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Agatha! GTSY
    Wol Euler: btw, just for the record, I've met Eliza in RL and she is truly lovely, inside and out :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes well the thing is I don't usually stress in RL that much, just a key moments
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: Howdy
    Wol Euler: hello *agatha*
    Lia Rikugun: hello agatha
    Wol Euler: sorry :)
    Wol Euler: utterly fixated on the comment I was writing ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha
    Eliza Madrigal: (((Wol)))
    eldir Resident: Hello Agatha
    Aphrodite Macbain: we're talkig about our preoccupation with appearance
    Subaru Arun: Hello :)#
    Lia Rikugun: hello subaru, nice to meet you
    Lia Rikugun: i will just IM you
    Eliza Madrigal: its just normal but nice to say things out loud and see how silly they are
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Subaru
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Subaru :)
    Wol Euler: hello subaru
    Aphrodite Macbain grins
    eldir Resident: Hello Subaru
    Aphrodite Macbain: Like wat, for example Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: oh any number of things.. sometimes a surprise
    Wol Euler nods.


    Are we preoccupied with appearance then?

    Agatha Macbeth: Are we preoccupied with appearance then?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hmmm All I can see of m is my hair and bracelet!
    Aphrodite Macbain: I fear I might be...
    Wol Euler: try rebaking? ctrl-alt-R
    Agatha Macbeth: So you're really concerned with it then!
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Wol Euler: very disturbing when it's missing
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Nobody knows where the rest of me went...'
    Eliza Madrigal: right, like when we show up as clouds... some can't communicate like that... feel they cant sit here in the circle if they don't 'show up'
    Aphrodite Macbain giggles sheepishly
    Aphrodite Macbain: No body knows but Jesus


    2 definitions of appearance...

    Calvino Rabeni: Appearance - which meaning of it - (1) the external image seen from a detached position, (2) the Act or Process of Appearing
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting... appearance implying detachment
    Wol Euler: I suppose appearance in this sense is about "letting yourself be seen"
    Lia Rikugun: i always thought it is 1)
    Wol Euler: your presentation to the world
    eldir Resident: so #2 would include the rez cloud
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: I feel I have to be visible to be heard and appreciated
    Fox Monacular: i like the process of appearing... an unfolding
    Agatha Macbeth: See amd be seen
    Eliza Madrigal: lovely, yes... rezzing the world
    Aphrodite Macbain: Can anyone see the real me...? -)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do I have a body?
    Wol Euler: both physical (including these pixels) and metaphorically seen, our acts and our virtues and failings
    Subaru Arun: Are I see you perfectly
    Agatha Macbeth: Me too :)
    eldir Resident: In SL I can slip in here almost unseen. In RL I take over a room :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hmm what doe it men when others can see ou but you can't?
    Calvino Rabeni: Appearance, in the sense of the PaB idea - "Appreciating the appearance of as appearance of Being"
    Wol Euler: right!
    Calvino Rabeni: (or however those acronyms work :)
    Wol Euler: RL-we are Being's avatars
    Aphrodite Macbain: I can't see you Eldean
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes cal
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lia Rikugun: less than 2 minutes til the next break


    the next break with the same or similar exploration

    Eliza Madrigal: seems it is about 'not' going somewhere else... appreciating what (ever) is right here... in all its complexity (faults/ideals)
    Eliza Madrigal: "this very land"
    Lia Rikugun: or appreciating the presence of my apperance as presentation by being
    Aphrodite Macbain: So I should appreciate my hair I guess
    Eliza Madrigal: sure... as long as appreciate doesn't mean squash out room for play and change and creativity :D
    Aphrodite Macbain: and find tht suffcient
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm concerned that I can' see Eldir.
    Lia Rikugun: i can see her
    Eliza Madrigal noticed how the 'friend of Being' tag Fox is wearing sounds like "friend of the being fox monacular" or.. I'm my own friend... something like that :D
    eldir Resident: ?? I can see me
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe she's concerned she can't see you either
    Wol Euler: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Come out come out wherever you are!
    Calvino Rabeni: Appearance as appearing in the moment .... it doesn't care about the prior patterns in which it will so soon be evaluated against
    Agatha Macbeth: Let's all go to Pab and not see each other
    Eliza Madrigal sees Eldir... sometimes a slight change of angle will 'appear' someone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hya Zon
    Lia Rikugun: hi zon
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
    Zon Kwan: hey all
    eldir Resident: Hello Zon
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Subaru Arun: Hello Zon :)


    what happens and how do I feel if I cannot see my avatar in SL?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Now I can see you Eldir - and I can finally see myself. Why is that such a relief?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    eldir Resident: I am so glad
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: The lag monster is banished
    Wol Euler: ... for now.
    Wol Euler: he'll be back
    Subaru Arun: But it went up two levels first
    Aphrodite Macbain: It shouldn' be important
    Eliza Madrigal: we may have to befriend him
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Nice to feel truly present
    Wol Euler: why shouldn't it, Aphro?
    Wol Euler: can you unpack that "shouldn't" a little?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's a bit like a sort of reference point
    Aphrodite Macbain: Knowing what is there before you begin
    eldir Resident: are you not really you unless you can see your presence?
    eldir Resident: or can you not talk to me until I appear
    Aphrodite Macbain: all the ducks in a row
    Eliza Madrigal: feel of the pen on paper, wet brush on canvas... something about traction? touchstone...
    Subaru Arun: Aha, Fox is dreaming :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes eliza, the sense of sight is so important in establishing what's real
    Fox Monacular: (back now and reading... sorry was away:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I can operate withut seeng myself, but uncomfortably
    Eliza Madrigal smiles @ dreaming Fox... ballet jellyfish
    Fox Monacular: hehe
    Fox Monacular: yes
    eldir Resident: I have worn glasses all my life, I think that makes me not so trusting in blurring objects
    Aphrodite Macbain: Does any one expriwence what I'm describing?
    Wol Euler grins.
    Subaru Arun: Just don't walk into the wall...
    Wol Euler: that one is not in SL if not visible? yes.
    Aphrodite Macbain: whew
    Wol Euler: I feel awkward and uncomfortable when unrezzed, it occupies my attention until fixed
    Aphrodite Macbain: I thought I was very vain
    Wol Euler: perhaps we both are! :)
    Agatha Macbeth: No ore than the rest of us
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks ol
    Agatha Macbeth: m
    Aphrodite Macbain: Wol
    Agatha Macbeth: more
    eldir Resident: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's all mind games
    eldir Resident: yes
    Wol Euler: sure, but isn't all of life everywhere?
    Wol Euler: how silly is it to get up at X o'clock eventhough you're still tired, just because the clock says so?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: No, because the boss says so :p
    Wol Euler: true, but the clock is his immediate agent
    Wol Euler: :P
    Agatha Macbeth nods


    abstractions in SL and how we still feel they are "real"

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes - butespecially SL. We believe in the solidity of abstraction
    Aphrodite Macbain: even the time is abtract
    eldir Resident: boss=dog. Has to go out
    Wol Euler: it's interesting that people travel in SL to see sculptures
    Wol Euler: SL art sculpture, I mean
    Aphrodite Macbain: dog= boss?
    Agatha Macbeth: Why sculptures particularly?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. Reproductions of rerodutions. we have to thow awa the idea of authentic?
    Wol Euler: because they are an illustratoin of the solidity of this abstraction :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Wol Euler: if I show you a photo of a SL sculpture, you see a flat image
    Aphrodite Macbain: sculpture becuse they're 3D
    Agatha Macbeth: Right, with you
    Wol Euler: if you go to anohter sim to look at it yourself, what your typist is *seeing* is a flat image too
    Aphrodite Macbain: so it's an bstaction of reality
    Wol Euler: but we do want to go and see for ourselves :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Technically speaking is it strictly 3D tho?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It stands in for reality. It is the appearance of being but not the true being.
    Wol Euler: I was just thinking about that
    Eliza Madrigal: the feel of walking through a museum here is next best to being in one... I find I keep a similar pace, stopping a while, etc. Surely better than scrolling through pics on a reg browser site....
    Wol Euler: right, eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: Cos you're seeing it on a flat screen
    Wol Euler: and doing it in SL is better too
    Eliza Madrigal: so in a sense it is what we bring... the body
    Wol Euler: we experience our virtual bodies moving in a virtual volume
    Aphrodite Macbain: I find what is lacking is scale and texture
    Agatha Macbeth: And toilets
    Wol Euler: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: hahah
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Wol Euler: rather like in literature. Romantic heroines seldom go shopping for toothpaste, or wipe the crud off their shoes after a walk in the woods
    Aphrodite Macbain: all our perceptions are limted
    Calvino Rabeni: Interesting to note - during the sit - that abstractions are concrete experiences also, so they take the place of the thing they "represent" and either opaque it or make a double image
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: "Miss Dashwood stops to blow her nose..."
    Wol Euler nods to Cal
    Fox Monacular: have to go now, RL is becoming more real:) good to see you all!
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm interesting Cal
    Lia Rikugun: byebye fox
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Foxy
    Aphrodite Macbain: and fumbles her knitting
    Wol Euler: :) bye fox, enjoy your alternative reality
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Fox!! Good to see you
    Subaru Arun: Goodbye Fox
    Calvino Rabeni: It turns out, this topic blends nicely with the topic in the Ways of Knowing group this week - Beauty
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Fox Take care
    Agatha Macbeth: Aha
    Eliza Madrigal whistles having not done with her homework but loves the topic
    Calvino Rabeni has to leave, however
    Aphrodite Macbain: Have I misse that essionCal?
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: It follows this one Aph
    Calvino Rabeni: Kira cafe, eleven minutes :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: ession
    Aphrodite Macbain: May I come?
    Eliza Madrigal: Of course!
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks everyone, see you
    Aphrodite Macbain: For abrief time?
    Lia Rikugun: bye cal
    Calvino Rabeni: yes Aphro :)
    Wol Euler: bye cal, see you later
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Cal
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, bye Cal


    WoK is coming up and a bonescan...

    Eliza Madrigal: the workshop is open... every week at this time
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hmm realized I cant
    Subaru Arun: That was a sudden exit
    Wol Euler: :(
    Eliza Madrigal: regular attendees have to do homework but not perpetual visitors, hehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: Have to get bonescan at the hospital
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh!
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Eliza Madrigal: that's a good reason to miss if I ever heard one
    eldir Resident: how does one stay a perpetual visitor, forever
    Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully, they'll find some ;P
    Aphrodite Macbain: Just checking to see how my body is doin
    Eliza Madrigal: I will leave the sesion early to get my eyebrows waxed... not a good excuse at all
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Wol Euler: by not doing homework?
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    eldir Resident: :)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Doesn't that hurt Eliza?
    Agatha Macbeth: A bone of contention...
    Eliza Madrigal: eldir :)) Perpetual visitor and regular attendee are pretty much same... one without homework
    Eliza Madrigal: YES it does...
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ouch. How often do you do that to yurself?
    Eliza Madrigal: every few months
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: then basic plucking... I know, I know...
    Eliza Madrigal: vain vain vain
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: You have my every sympathy Liz
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you
    Aphrodite Macbain imagines Eliza with enormous bushy eyebrows
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Eliza Madrigal: what is entailed in a bone scan Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: I get injected with stuff that can be seen by an Xray
    Agatha Macbeth: You need some here
    Aphrodite Macbain: wait 2 hrs, and return t get scanned
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay... wondered if that was necessary
    Aphrodite Macbain: That way I can see if my cancer has spread, whether I hve arthritis etc
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Wol Euler: wow, Aph, I had no idea.
    Aphrodite Macbain: My back ahs bee bothering me so it's a good wayto see what's up with i
    Agatha Macbeth: Always better safe than sorry
    Aphrodite Macbain: It also seems to effect my typing...
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    eldir Resident: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Not surprising really
    Wol Euler: distracting you, perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: Aph, how did I miss that too... that you have to check up on these things....
    Lia Rikugun: on your back only?
    Aphrodite Macbain giggles. That's my excuse
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lia Rikugun: i hope it is going to be ok


    possible things to do with a digital image of your skeleton

    Aphrodite Macbain: My whole body will get scanned - they're going to give me a CD of the image. so I can see my skeleton!
    Lia Rikugun: hey nice
    Aphrodite Macbain: Cool eh?
    Lia Rikugun: and you can make a poster
    Eliza Madrigal: wow!
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Agatha Macbeth: Dem bones dem bones...
    Aphrodite Macbain: HHaaaLia
    Lia Rikugun: and skare people n the night
    Wol Euler: wow
    Aphrodite Macbain: Use it for hallowee
    Aphrodite Macbain: n
    Lia Rikugun: huuuuuuhuuuuuuuu
    Eliza Madrigal giggles....
    Eliza Madrigal: you could use it for the alt project
    Agatha Macbeth ponders 'Hallowee'
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you for your support. (and your humour) weee
    Eliza Madrigal: (((Aph)))))
    Agatha Macbeth: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    Agatha Macbeth:
    Lia Rikugun: weee is what ghosts do in the us?
    Wol Euler: and small kids
    Agatha Macbeth: Everywhere
    Eliza Madrigal: all the way home
    Aphrodite Macbain giggles and gets up to go
    Lia Rikugun: not in germany :)
    Wol Euler: right, piglets too
    Lia Rikugun: bye aphrodite god luck
    Agatha Macbeth: Bet your back's gone altogether now?
    eldir Resident: I will go too, thank you all
    Wol Euler: bye aph, best wishes for a good result
    Eliza Madrigal: time for wok
    Wol Euler: bye eldir, nice meeting you
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care Aphro
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! everyone
    Zon Kwan: bye all
    Wol Euler: bye everyone else, I'm wokking
    Eliza Madrigal: yes wish you nice people to help today
    eldir Resident: \take care aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Wok well Wol
    Lia Rikugun: nbye
    Subaru Arun: Bye All
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Lia, bye for now...
    Lia Rikugun: i think i will leave too, it is late for me
    Eliza Madrigal: don't nkow why I was flying
    Eliza Madrigal: SEE YOU SOON LIA!
    Lia Rikugun: yeay!!!
    Lia Rikugun: i hope it is ok if i come with my normal eyebrows
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Wol Euler: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well, that session came to a grinding halt
    Eliza Madrigal: =P~
    Wol Euler: come with us then :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Auf wiedersehen Lia
    Lia Rikugun: good night
    Eliza Madrigal lures Ag
    Lia Rikugun: auf wiedersehen!

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