2011.01.23 01:00 - Compassion

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session.


    Wol Euler: good morning, cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Good morning
    Calvino Rabeni: WOl
    Calvino Rabeni: I wonder if red could ever become the new black
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: it's pretty close to that in SL
    Wol Euler: mind you, "they" said that about orange too
    Calvino Rabeni: ..I was thinking something like that
    Wol Euler: hello eliza!
    Wol Euler: you're up very early, or late
    Calvino Rabeni: Good morning
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol! Hi Cal! :) Good Morning!
    Eliza Madrigal: a dramatic Wol this morning :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: left over from last night, there was a bottom-of-the-sea theme to a dance party
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, cute!
    Eliza Madrigal: LOVE it
    Wol Euler: it's a mermaid dress
    Eliza Madrigal: mermaid with feathery fins
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ohhh nice AO
    Wol Euler: unfortunately just one animation, not a full AO
    Wol Euler: if this were from Grendel, it would have an AO :) and would have cost a twentieth of what it did :))
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, but that must feel fun
    Wol Euler: good morning kit
    Kit Ciaco: Hi! sorry I'm late....
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kit
    Kit Ciaco: hey
    Kit Ciaco: I hope I ain't sstanding on anyone's head
    Kit Ciaco: I'm still rzzing in
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Wol Euler: kit is maker of the flutes that people have been talking about lately
    Kit Ciaco: oh???
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Boxy's
    Kit Ciaco: Well, I have upgraded it already!
    Kit Ciaco: much nicer
    Eliza Madrigal: nice, one of my daughters plays flute... though not much lately, miss that
    Kit Ciaco: prettier, with a nice ao
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Dorje
    Kit Ciaco: anyway - thanks!
    Kit Ciaco: I play about 2 to 3 hours a day usually
    Wol Euler: hello dorje
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, wonderful
    Kit Ciaco: I thoughts since I spend so much time in SL may as well have a flute HERE!
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    Qt Core: i mandatory played flute at school (many years ago) made many people cry
    Wol Euler: have you been here before, Dorje?
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Kit Ciaco: mine are native american style
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt! :))
    Wol Euler: oh, hello qt, didn't see you arrive
    Kit Ciaco: alot easier to play, I expect
    Kit Ciaco: I could never play the silver flutes
    Kit Ciaco: can't do my lips right
    Kit Ciaco: but I do make people cry when I play sometimes!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: a nice compliment
    Dorje Indigo: yes, been here before, I am just listening... talk to much all day in 1st life...
    Wol Euler: ok, ty, I ask because of the recording
    Eliza Madrigal smiles, understandable :))
    Qt Core: i made them cry even with a few closed doors between us... damned the italian schools having compulsory musical ed.!
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Kit Ciaco: heck, I even scare my goats sometimes!
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Eliza Madrigal: with a flute? hm... goats are less resilient than their reputations then :)
    Qt Core: the teacher had me switching to the triangle, at least i have some rythm sense
    Kit Ciaco: well, I'm very hard on them
    Kit Ciaco: I say, you want food, you gotta listen to me play!
    Kit Ciaco: harsh....
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Eliza Madrigal: task master
    Kit Ciaco: yes
    Kit Ciaco: I only LOOK innocent
    Qt Core: thet's the first rule Kit ;-)
    Kit Ciaco: hehehehehehe
    Kit Ciaco: look adorable?
    Eliza Madrigal: btw, Happy Eliza Rezz Day :)
    Wol Euler: oh!
    Eliza Madrigal: 2 years in SL... almost 2 in PaB
    Wol Euler: congratulations, dear eliza!
    Qt Core: !
    Kit Ciaco: wow!!!!!!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
    Qt Core: happy rez day Eliza!
    Qt Core: brb
    Eliza Madrigal: what a long, strange trip its been....
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: actually it seemed to me that you had a path in SL from nearly the beginning of your time here
    Wol Euler: (reading your piece for Kiremimi)
    Wol Euler: I have the impression that your trip has been perhaps long but not strange at all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) yes it does feel that way... felt that a lot of things came together in a flash
    Eliza Madrigal: which is not to say that it isn't strange as well... or that there aren't changes along the way, finding balances
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: but I did find PaB and a few nice meditation communities very fast!
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: when you arrived at PaB, I took you to be a very senior meditatrix, quite experienced and having achieved a high degree of ... meditativity
    Wol Euler: you radiated calm and goodness
    Eliza Madrigal: isn't that funny... not at all
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, thank you
    Wol Euler: my pleasure :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I did feel 'home' very quickly here....
    Eliza Madrigal: and now moreso with such friendships and various layers having developed
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: ... land of potentals meeting potentials
    Wol Euler: knotting the threads of the tapestry
    Wol Euler: or some such metaphor
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, hah... yes
    Kit Ciaco: nice met
    Kit Ciaco: tapestry, weaving of compassion
    Eliza Madrigal: there's a question... I keep thinking that I know what compassion is and then, nope :)
    Kit Ciaco: I think it's a genius of the heart
    Wol Euler ponders
    Dorje Indigo: bye everybody, tiime to go to the spa.... sauna and steambath... yeah
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: bye dorje, take care
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Dorje :) enjoy
    Eliza Madrigal: genius in this sense would be a natural ability ...
    Kit Ciaco: well, I'm not sure
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, listens
    Kit Ciaco: I think it can be cultivated
    Kit Ciaco: sort of like how we cultivate our learning intellectually
    Kit Ciaco: I am by nature not compassionate
    Kit Ciaco: so part of my path is surrounding myself with compassionate people to learn from them the ways of compassion
    Wol Euler: probably a bit of both ;) there might be a predisposition to it which is then strengthened and extended
    Kit Ciaco: Do you think most people have some level of predisposition for compassion?
    Wol Euler: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, I think we must
    Eliza Madrigal: it is there to be cultivated
    Eliza Madrigal: after all
    Wol Euler: yes :)
    Qt Core: yes, i the full range from 0 to 100 %
    Kit Ciaco: so we can nurture it perhaps - extend it?
    Wol Euler: certainly
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, or simply uncover what's there
    Wol Euler: not to say that everyone will get to 100%
    Eliza Madrigal: the idea of it changes for me I think... what I think compassion is at various points...
    Qt Core: that's for saints and buddhas
    Eliza Madrigal: not merely kindness or courtesy but surely that is an expression
    Kit Ciaco: And it seems to me that compassion is practiced differently
    Kit Ciaco: per styles
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Kit Ciaco: yes, Eliza
    Kit Ciaco: so someone who appears gruff might actually be pragmatically exrtremely compassionate
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes!
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, capable of true generosity of spirit
    Kit Ciaco: conversely, sometimes folks who appear kind are, well, not
    Wol Euler: but usually concealing that,perhaps not knowing it themselves
    Kit Ciaco: agreed, wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Trungpa said something like "compassion can mean pushing someone to the wall"
    Qt Core: and someone that seems compassionate is just avoiding conflict, being "lazy" (my situation most f the tomes)
    Wol Euler grins.
    Wol Euler: "tough love"
    Kit Ciaco: Absolutely, Eliza!!!
    Wol Euler nods to QT
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Qt... I relate... comfort can look like compassion too
    Eliza Madrigal: not upsetting things
    Kit Ciaco: Yes, sometimes we must care enough to confront
    Kit Ciaco: which can be rather sloppy and awkward....
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, so there is an exposure there, a risk...
    Kit Ciaco: oh, absolutely!
    Eliza Madrigal: which must be part of the definition
    Qt Core: when that happen to me im sad, and i don't know if it is for me not being so nice or for the others not knowing me
    Wol Euler nods.
    Kit Ciaco: it's much easier to smile and nod
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... wondering what we're cultivating... can't seem to be compassion itself, as that seems unimprovable :)
    Eliza Madrigal: but our 'action'? or our choicelessness about it?
    Kit Ciaco: compassion unimproveable?
    Eliza Madrigal: well its a question
    Kit Ciaco: hehehehe
    Kit Ciaco: so was mine.....
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Kit Ciaco: I think the concept of compassion is unimproveable
    Kit Ciaco: but the practice of it can be improved, ie, cultivated/nurtured
    Wol Euler: learning to express it
    Kit Ciaco: indeed!
    Wol Euler: learning to see chances to do so
    Kit Ciaco: yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: 3 cheers to worthy endeavors!
    Qt Core: like in chosing to be compassionate, not being compassionate ? forcing it as you see it as a good thing?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: not forcing, that's not quite the right expression IMHO
    Eliza Madrigal: well sometimes one may have to force a rock off the opening of the well
    Qt Core: like dieting even if you don't like it
    Kit Ciaco: fascinating
    Kit Ciaco: sometimes my compassion emerges while I'm kicking and screaming
    Wol Euler: hmmm, yes, perhaps forcing yourself to display that tough love aspect
    Wol Euler: when you'd rather not
    Kit Ciaco: exactly
    Qt Core: then it become an habits and you may even start to do in unconsciously getting addicted to it as it make you feel good too ?
    Wol Euler: thinking about this, perhaps the core of compassion is perceiving the essential inner all-one-Being-ness of us
    Kit Ciaco: I agree, Core
    Eliza Madrigal smiles @ addicted to compassion
    Wol Euler: yes, qt, exactly
    Calvino Rabeni: Actually Wol
    Eliza Madrigal: agree Wol, too... knowing ...
    Calvino Rabeni: I think the core of compassion is learning to love diversity
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Qt Core: wonder why i keep thinking about it like dieting or going to the gym :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Calvino Rabeni: the easy compassion says - if they are like me I will accept them
    Kit Ciaco: perhaps because of the practice aspect?
    Kit Ciaco: I don't think that's compassion at all, Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: probably... the 'effort' aspect
    Wol Euler: cal, that wraps around to what I meant: they ARE all like me, even those who aren't
    Eliza Madrigal: Nods!
    Eliza Madrigal: and all me, too
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Qt Core: and even if they aren't is that enough top trat them bad ?
    Qt Core: treat
    Wol Euler: just like physical features are more or less strongly expressed in families
    Calvino Rabeni: but still wol, isn't that an unnecessary condition?
    Qt Core: time to go, bye all
    Wol Euler: some of us strengthen the aspect X, whereas others are more Y, but we all have both inclinations
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Qt, good to see you, had been a while!
    Wol Euler: bye qt, enjoy your sunday
    Qt Core: :-) ciao!
    Calvino Rabeni: Its a problem e.g. analogous to interfaith dialogue - is it necessary to posit that all religions have the "same thing" at the core?
    Wol Euler ponders.
    Calvino Rabeni: Or can differences be appreciated too, as differences
    Kit Ciaco: a celebration of differences
    Calvino Rabeni: without needing to reference them to some ideal of sameness
    Calvino Rabeni: yes Kit
    Kit Ciaco: For me, the more I'm able to celebrate what is different among us the more I come to appreciate what is alike
    Eliza Madrigal: /menods
    Wol Euler: mmhmmmmm
    Calvino Rabeni: That's one possible drawback of unifying schemes, like the perennial philosophy
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a somewhat deeper teaching... nature of diversity is nondual
    Eliza Madrigal: but basically it seems if one is aware of an underlying connection...
    Eliza Madrigal: then they aren't threatened by the appearance of otherwise at all?
    Eliza Madrigal: so can 'stay'
    Kit Ciaco: you make a good point, Eliza
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: then the well is open :)
    Kit Ciaco: :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: an endlessly rich topic
    Kit Ciaco: yes
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Eliza, Kit, Wol, Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: what I hear in your point a little Cal goes back to the sense of unpredictability... not labeling compassion ie "this is what it looks like"
    Wol Euler: hello rhi
    Eliza Madrigal: HI Rhiannon
    Wol Euler: yes, I expressed myself badly, I meant that discovering this connectedness is likely to bring somebody to compassion, not that it was a necessary precondition
    Rhiannon Dragoone: What else could bring us to compassion, if not awareness of our connecteness?
    Calvino Rabeni: I see that too Eliza
    Wol Euler: rhi, I'll give you a notedcard of the conversation to date
    Eliza Madrigal: ah that's what I heard you say Wol... but seems far more likely for someone to have access to showing compassion if the other is no 'other'
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Thanks, Wol
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Otherness is the end of compassion, it seems to me
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Wol Euler: (just answered my own question by asking it :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: What question did you ask, Wol?
    Wol Euler: whether it was possible to feel compassion for somebody of whom you believe at a gut level that "they are other, not like us"?
    Wol Euler: and the answer is yes, that is Cal's not-easy compassion
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
    Wol Euler: but that is different, it's almost an intellectual/emotional *exercise*
    Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV
    Rhiannon Dragoone: ok, it's happening again; it didn't at Tricipian's, but for some reason, here I can only see some of the chat
    Eliza Madrigal: is that a kind of playing as if, too then....
    Kit Ciaco: I think so
    Wol Euler nods.
    Kit Ciaco: If we walk a path long enough does it not become our own?
    Wol Euler: absolutely
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm
    Calvino Rabeni: nice to notice that
    Eliza Madrigal: appreciate that texture
    Wol Euler: learn to be enlightened by pretending to be enlightened and doing "as if"
    Kit Ciaco: practice
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Calvino Rabeni: well wol maybe the enlightenment comes from the discrepancies too ...
    Kit Ciaco: yes, and the paradoxes!
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Eliza Madrigal: and the rich ground of confusion, hehe
    Calvino Rabeni: no one can fit a template predefined "as if"
    Kit Ciaco: the interwoven nature - some go this way, some go that - it binds us together into a whole
    Calvino Rabeni: eventually that will be laid aside
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hmmm, no one else is seeing my chat either from the responses.
    Wol Euler: read your IMs rhi :)
    Calvino Rabeni: but, on the other hand it makes some pragmatic sense
    Calvino Rabeni: to refine it along the way?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But from context, i'm getting most of the convo.
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, why am I up? :) I'd better try to sleep... will meet Gaya in just a few hours!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: are you already there?
    Eliza Madrigal: This is a marvelous conversation to pre-start the day with
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes... arrived late afternoon...
    Eliza Madrigal: after a delayed plane as usual : )
    Kit Ciaco: and lost luggage???
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Good nite, Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: had dinner with Pema... a sleepy jetlagged Pema, but always a pleasure
    Eliza Madrigal: no lost luggage... just miami flights somehow
    Kit Ciaco: And with that, I must go as well. Thanks for your company and time!
    Wol Euler: ah, the retreat!
    Wol Euler: bye kit, enjoy the day
    Kit Ciaco: thanks!!!!
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Kit :)
    Wol Euler: eliza, I'm so envious ... well actually not :)
    Wol Euler: I'd love to be there but I feel no envy, no dis-entitlement or whatever
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Wol Euler: I'm delighted for you that you are there
    Calvino Rabeni slips out in the early hours of the morning
    Calvino Rabeni: Good day everyone
    Wol Euler: and I now understand why gaya wasn't in WoW this weekend :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight cal, take care
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't feel retreaty yet... I like to arrive early to settle in but
    Eliza Madrigal: still feel like I'm on my way here for some reason
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: is corvi there?
    Eliza Madrigal: no :(
    Eliza Madrigal: she had work things come up
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Wol Euler: what a pity
    Eliza Madrigal: and sharon too, couldn't make it
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :((
    Wol Euler: :(
    Rhiannon Dragoone: nite Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: steven will be here tomorrow night, and Eos tomorrow afternoon... and Lia
    Eliza Madrigal: also tomorrow night I think
    Wol Euler: a slow start, then
    Eliza Madrigal: am looking forward to meeting her as well... two new face to faces :)
    Wol Euler: perhaps that's why you are not yet retreaty?
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe :)
    Wol Euler: knowing that it will be spread out
    Eliza Madrigal: yes that may be it... though the setting is nice
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is just the urban-ness that takes settling into...
    Eliza Madrigal: every place is so different, such a different feel
    Eliza Madrigal: and seems to change one's energy
    Wol Euler nods.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Urban ness can be a real challenge to adjust or re adjust to
    Wol Euler: meditation on bourbon street
    Eliza Madrigal: yes! one block away!
    Wol Euler grins.
    Wol Euler: I hope you have a wonderful time
    Eliza Madrigal: okay... better try to sleep again...
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you, and thanks for a lovely session
    Wol Euler gives you a hug. Goodnight eliza, happy retreating
    Eliza Madrigal hugs back, Bye and Thanks :)

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