2011.01.25 19:00 - Nothing needs fixing


    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu. [Raw post - to be further formatted...]


    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Eos :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi oO
    Eos Amaterasu: How's life?
    oO0Oo Resident: so sorry... afk for a bit
    Eos Amaterasu: np
    oO0Oo Resident: life is rich and most colours are represented ;)
    Eos Amaterasu: all these emotions of yours aren't keeping you from a rainbow like this very world?
    oO0Oo Resident: well, that's both beautiful and interestingly put
    Eos Amaterasu: kudos to Jimi Hendrix, actually (from Axis Bold as Love)
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    oO0Oo Resident: ty for transmitting
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, we can keep on giving the best of what we've been given
    oO0Oo Resident: emotions give me something to work with ;)
    oO0Oo Resident: not sure why my avi keeps jumping like that
    oO0Oo Resident: probably starts with emotion though
    Eos Amaterasu: I saw one jump; :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: emotion as a colored perception, perhaps
    oO0Oo Resident: I've seen 3, and seems to be correlated to text in the chat box
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm
    oO0Oo Resident: how are you Eos
    oO0Oo Resident: ?
    Eos Amaterasu: in my client (Imprudence), I see a nod when someone stops typing
    Eos Amaterasu: I'm fine - I'm actually in New Orleans in RL at a RL PaB retreat
    Eos Amaterasu: Emotions are things we have, but usually so strongly identified with us that we think we are that
    oO0Oo Resident: sweet
    oO0Oo Resident: !
    Eos Amaterasu: I _am_ angry!
    oO0Oo Resident: oh
    oO0Oo Resident: OH?
    Eos Amaterasu: although maybe in another language we _have_ anger
    Eos Amaterasu: using anger as example
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    oO0Oo Resident realises there's nothing needs fixing
    Eos Amaterasu: can u say more about "nothing needs fixing"?
    oO0Oo Resident: it starts with a feeling of concern, then realising that it's basically not a problem for you to be angry... for anger to be
    oO0Oo Resident: for you to have an angry feeling
    oO0Oo Resident: passing throuh
    Eos Amaterasu: that's pretty "enlightened", so to speak
    oO0Oo Resident: through*
    oO0Oo Resident: well... there's still an edge that I want to sooth something
    oO0Oo Resident: soothe*
    Eos Amaterasu: that might be a good framing for the upcoming 90 second pause: "nothing needs fixing"
    Alfred Kelberry: meep!
    Eos Amaterasu: HI Boxy!
    Alfred Kelberry: eos canon :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Alfred Kelberry: not too crowdy
    Eos Amaterasu: If cannons are outlawed, only outlaws will be compassionate
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Lia!
    Alfred Kelberry: lia and her cute tale! :)
    Lia Rikugun: hello eos, oOOOOOo and alfred
    Alfred Kelberry: um... tail that is :)
    Eos Amaterasu: you seem to have a multi-colored jetpack, Alfred
    Alfred Kelberry: i think of a cute little mouse when i see lia :)
    Alfred Kelberry: it's a flute, eos
    Lia Rikugun: miuu
    Lia Rikugun: no how does the mouse make?
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, that's the sound I heard!
    Lia Rikugun: meee meeee
    Alfred Kelberry: try it :)
    Alfred Kelberry: lia :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Lia is indeed cute :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: speaking of colors, we were talking about emotions as colors
    Lia Rikugun: oh
    Lia Rikugun: what colors did you already talk about?
    Eos Amaterasu: and oO0Oo said, "nothing needs fixing": a wonderful approach to playing as being
    Lia Rikugun: nothing needs fixing...
    oO0Oo Resident: nice to see you Lia, Boxy (and hear your soothing flute)
    Alfred Kelberry: sam :)
    Alfred Kelberry: thank you
    Eos Amaterasu: [07:04 PM] oO0Oo Resident: life is rich and most colours are represented ;)
    Alfred Kelberry: not sure i agree with the not fixing comment
    Alfred Kelberry: if your flute is out of tune, you have to fix it! :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Can you say more about that, oO0Oo?
    oO0Oo Resident: thinking od Suzuki Roshi talking about Blujay
    oO0Oo Resident: From one perspective NOISE!
    Alfred Kelberry: sam, unfortunately, a lot of people think that we're supposed to only respresent certain colors
    oO0Oo Resident: from another, only sound
    oO0Oo Resident: maybe flutes are like that too
    Alfred Kelberry: behave a certain way
    oO0Oo Resident: that's what we get to work with
    oO0Oo Resident: how sweet and sour
    Eos Amaterasu: the wrong note can lead to an improvisation
    Eos Amaterasu: or the wrong not means you need more practice :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: paradise smiles at someone somewhere
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Eos Amaterasu: *note
    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
    Lia Rikugun: wow bright in one second
    Alfred Kelberry: haha
    Alfred Kelberry: collective flute :)
    Eos Amaterasu wonders if he's playing Alfred's flute
    oO0Oo Resident: I wonder how the phrase "The squeeky wheel gets the oil" relates to representing certain or all colours, and whether anything might need fixing or not
    Alfred Kelberry: *nods* :)
    Alfred Kelberry: need some practice :)
    Alfred Kelberry: you just click it once, eos
    Eos Amaterasu: ah
    Alfred Kelberry: squares are tunes and spheres are fillers
    Eos Amaterasu: Alfred is an orchestra
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: colors and sounds
    oO0Oo Resident: I have a flute too. If I stand, others can play it with boxy's
    Eos Amaterasu: The aeon is a child at play with coloured balls Heraclitus, 54th Fragment
    Alfred Kelberry: funny, there's no notion of color at nano scale :)
    Eos Amaterasu: you can't play the nano scale?
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    Lia Rikugun: (sorry for me short visit, i think I will go to sleep, too tired, still jetleged) have fun
    Lia Rikugun: byebye
    Alfred Kelberry: sweet dreams, cute mouse :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Nice to be with you Lia
    Eos Amaterasu: 'night lia
    Lia Rikugun: meee meeee
    Alfred Kelberry: hehe
    Eos Amaterasu: (Lia is also at 'Nawlins retreat
    Alfred Kelberry: where?
    Alfred Kelberry: ah
    Alfred Kelberry: ok
    Eos Amaterasu: New Orleans
    Alfred Kelberry: fancy accent :)
    Eos Amaterasu: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Retreats/2011-01_New_Orleans%2c_USA
    Eos Amaterasu: So oO0Olo, does "nothing needs fixing" mean we can just lay back and have a beer?
    oO0Oo Resident: objection your honor...leading the witmess
    oO0Oo Resident: Slvina!
    Silvina Inkpen: whoops, rough landing
    oO0Oo Resident: Yay!
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Silvina, have you been to Play as Being before?
    Silvina Inkpen: no
    Silvina Inkpen is clueless
    Silvina Inkpen: but willing to learn
    Eos Amaterasu: I've given you a notecard
    oO0Oo Resident: it doesn't exclude that Eos, would you say, but neither can things be unattended to if seen clearly
    Eos Amaterasu: we investigate the nature of mind/reality in an experiential manner.... our conversations here are logged to a wiki - is that okay with you?
    oO0Oo Resident: sorry (out of turn there)
    Silvina Inkpen: oh sure
    Eos Amaterasu: well said, oO
    Silvina Inkpen: thank you for letting me know
    Eos Amaterasu: http://wiki.playasbeing.org
    Eos Amaterasu: basic ideas: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/About_PlayAsBeing/Basic_Ideas
    Eos Amaterasu: I guess that's similar to notion of "wu wei"
    oO0Oo Resident: there is often no great or small agenda here Silvina... so sometimes spaces occur naturally
    Silvina Inkpen: ok, I was reading from the website...basic ideas.
    Silvina Inkpen: You challenge people to question societal norms and ideas of what their ascribed statuses are.
    Silvina Inkpen: Good grief, I sound like the textbook I've been reading
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    Eos Amaterasu: you are what you read :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: caught yourself
    Eos Amaterasu: becoming aware of the norms and ideas of what I'm holding on to
    oO0Oo Resident: and those coloured balls/cubes on boxy are a flute which if you click will sound
    Silvina Inkpen: ok
    oO0Oo Resident: the spectrum is open to your plectrum
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: plectrum? is tha a word?
    Eos Amaterasu: pluck with a plectrum
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, actually, you are is what people think of you
    Eos Amaterasu: very much so, I suspect; personhood is pretty social
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Cal
    Alfred Kelberry: cal!
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Eos
    Alfred Kelberry: calc
    Calvino Rabeni: Hey, what's happening tonight ?
    oO0Oo Resident: Welcome Cal
    Alfred Kelberry: meet silvina :)
    oO0Oo Resident: your rainbow, your way
    Alfred Kelberry: a new pabling :)
    Silvina Inkpen waves
    Eos Amaterasu: colors, emotions, flute sounds (via boxy's colored balls and cubes), and "nothing needs fixing"
    Alfred Kelberry: i think cal liked you. he's speechless :)
    oO0Oo Resident: glad you came Silvina.. some of the nicest people I've ever met here
    Silvina Inkpen: ツ
    Calvino Rabeni smiles
    Alfred Kelberry: ^^
    Calvino Rabeni: it happens some times
    oO0Oo Resident: I feel a fluffy dress coming on
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Silvina Inkpen: O.o
    Silvina Inkpen: lol
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe anemone?
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    oO0Oo Resident: if we're lucky
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah .. I had a variety of things tat didn't need fixing today ... machines I taught to do things they hadn't done before ... I had to kind of work at the "ain't broke" state of mind though
    Silvina Inkpen: why?
    Calvino Rabeni: Mainly to enjoy the job and get it done without strain
    Eos Amaterasu: Yeah, that's true human perfection: not 10.0 on the parallel bars, but handling the bumps and the smooths
    Silvina Inkpen: But you had to work at the "ain't broke" state of mind?
    Silvina Inkpen: isn't that the easier way to be?
    Eos Amaterasu: paradox: working at the ain't broke state of mind
    Silvina Inkpen: complete Paradox
    Eos Amaterasu: not even a pair
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it's easier once one gets into it, but in a way its harder at first ...
    oO0Oo Resident listens
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you heard the analogy of "fitness landscapes"
    Eos Amaterasu: ?
    Calvino Rabeni: suppose you were on a mountain range
    Calvino Rabeni: and what you were up to was being at the highest place
    Calvino Rabeni: so you walk uphill
    Calvino Rabeni: but you get to the top of a smaller mountain
    Calvino Rabeni: over across the valley is a higher peak
    Calvino Rabeni: but to get there you'd have to go down down for a while
    Calvino Rabeni: and then go over there and start climbing again
    Calvino Rabeni: so if you expect always to be going up
    Calvino Rabeni: then you can't get to that higher peak from where you are
    Calvino Rabeni: you'e stuck on a local peak
    Calvino Rabeni: or
    Calvino Rabeni: well the meaning is the same if you turn the landscape upside down
    Calvino Rabeni: and say you want to get to the lowest place
    Calvino Rabeni: like water running into a hole
    Calvino Rabeni: what could be easier than just to flow
    Calvino Rabeni: except, it will end up in some "higher" holes
    Calvino Rabeni: that are higher than the deepest one that is somewhere else
    Calvino Rabeni: the point being
    Calvino Rabeni: that it may take more work for a while to end up in the easiest place
    Calvino Rabeni: and of one goes just by the short term experiences
    Calvino Rabeni: like finding whats easiest
    Calvino Rabeni: it isn't possible to get to some places
    Calvino Rabeni: its an analogy for getting stuck
    Calvino Rabeni: into habits
    Calvino Rabeni: it takes work to change the habits of using too much tension to get a job done
    Calvino Rabeni: but once the habit is changed
    Calvino Rabeni: then the easier way is done with very little effort
    Silvina Inkpen: Do you find it so hard to change your habits?
    Calvino Rabeni: Fred Astaire made dancing look easy and effortless ..as any master does with his art
    Calvino Rabeni: But there were thousands of hours of struggle to acquire the skills and master them
    oO0Oo Resident: why "fitness landcapes Cal"?
    Calvino Rabeni: That model comes from a field of study that models optimizing things, applied to the idea of evolution
    oO0Oo Resident: your descriptions bring to mind robotics for whatever reason
    oO0Oo Resident: and
    Calvino Rabeni: so the word fitness refers to how a species adapts to its environment by getting better at what it does
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it's a kind of robot model of adaptation
    Calvino Rabeni: the thing that is changing is looking at the world in some way
    Calvino Rabeni: it can't see the big picture
    Calvino Rabeni: only a local view, an incomplete view of reality
    Calvino Rabeni: and has to make decisions based on that
    Calvino Rabeni: it can see nearby, it knows which way is "better" relative to what it can see
    Calvino Rabeni: but it can't see enough to plan to go in the "wrong" direction for a while to get off the local hill it is stuck on
    Calvino Rabeni: you could draw another analogy from buddhism
    Calvino Rabeni: where the local hill is a "near enemy"
    Calvino Rabeni: that is something that is pretty good
    Calvino Rabeni: but not the best, and if one clings to it, then one never gets the real thing
    oO0Oo Resident: it would seem that there is no work for water to flow to the lowest point, but that the 'work' comes from the demand for the water to be in some lower place, then this makes me question about the values imposed on habits and also the choices about which are worthy goals.
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe something like, mistaking a simulation of God, a pretty good idea about it, for the real thing
    Calvino Rabeni: The water only flows to the nearest local lowest point, not the globally lowest point
    Calvino Rabeni: just like, we're sitting in RL
    Calvino Rabeni: we fall onto the earth, not onto jupiter or the sun
    Calvino Rabeni: even though they have stronger gravity in the solar system
    Calvino Rabeni: because we're closer
    oO0Oo Resident: and yet the sun shines so brightly here
    Calvino Rabeni: it shines just the right amount for who we aree
    Calvino Rabeni: not as bright as on Venus
    Calvino Rabeni: because our ancestors grew up adapting to conditions here
    Eos Amaterasu: so working hard to be in state of nothing missing is working the local hill....
    Calvino Rabeni: as organisms we'd have a hard time living on Juputer
    Calvino Rabeni: or mercury
    Calvino Rabeni: we're stuck here
    Silvina Inkpen: living in a state of nothing seems like numbness to me
    oO0Oo Resident: me really are a part of a lineage... a long one
    oO0Oo Resident: we*
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: working hard to be in a state of nothing missing, is getting off the local hill to allow a bigger hill to be reachable
    Calvino Rabeni: going with the flow - what does it mean? It might mean, letting tension habits take over and falling into a pattern of tension
    Eos Amaterasu: the vision of nothing missing is not obscured by the hills
    Calvino Rabeni: or it might mean kind of working to change the habit, and then falling into a different stable pattern with less tension
    Calvino Rabeni: the tension habits of the body feel "natural"
    Calvino Rabeni: doing things with less strain at first feels "wrong" to the body
    Eos Amaterasu: I need to head for the hills, knowing that nothing is missing
    Eos Amaterasu: bye all!
    Silvina Inkpen: bye
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Eos
    Calvino Rabeni: One day he will return
    Calvino Rabeni: from those distant hills
    oO0Oo Resident: Be well Eos
    Calvino Rabeni: and tell the story of how he discovere that nothing is missing
    oO0Oo Resident likes the idea of Eos dancing in dixieland style parade
    Silvina Inkpen: That would be an interesting sight
    Silvina Inkpen: IS it possible to overthink things, Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: it's possible to get unbalanced with thinking
    Silvina Inkpen: of course
    Calvino Rabeni: thinking disconnected thoughts, tiring thougts, etc.
    Alfred Kelberry: meep!
    Alfred Kelberry: *woke up*
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: ^^
    Silvina Inkpen: Hi Alfred
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: I'm off friends. tyvm
    Calvino Rabeni: YW, good to see you sam
    Alfred Kelberry: bye, sam
    Silvina Inkpen: ツ
    oO0Oo Resident: bye friends
    Silvina Inkpen: ciao Sam
    Alfred Kelberry: *sips green tea*
    Silvina Inkpen wishes for green tea
    Calvino Rabeni: Coffee with cream
    Calvino Rabeni: green tea later
    Alfred Kelberry: *imagines a hot cup of coffee in cal's hand*
    Silvina Inkpen: thank you, Cal
    Silvina Inkpen: oh my
    Silvina Inkpen: I must go to RL.
    Silvina Inkpen: Thank you
    Calvino Rabeni: YW, good to meet you Silvina
    Alfred Kelberry: bye, sil
    Silvina Inkpen: Namaste
    Alfred Kelberry: let rl treats you well :)
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm going back to fixing more "ain't broke" things ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care, Boxy
    Alfred Kelberry: ok, bye :)

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