2011.01.27 01:00 - Selfishness and Gratefulness

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Calvino Rabeni, Nio Artful, oo0oo Resident and myself

    Australia recollections:

    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Zen
    Zen Arado: Hi Sam
    Zen Arado: I'm still eating my breakfast
    Zen Arado: a man called me on Skype
    Zen Arado: and I didn't have time to eat it
    oO0Oo Resident: np
    oO0Oo Resident: I have no pressing needs of any kind
    Zen Arado: a guy who lives in Melbourne
    Zen Arado: I shared a flat with him and another guy in Sydney in 1961
    oO0Oo Resident: your gestures Zen
    oO0Oo Resident: like you were forming a ball in front of you
    Zen Arado: yeah it's a new AO
    oO0Oo Resident: Melbourne Sydney... beaut cities mate
    Zen Arado: you should see the gestures my alt does :)
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    oO0Oo Resident rolls eyes
    Zen Arado: yes - wonder why I came back to this cold place sometimes
    oO0Oo Resident: Sydney in 1961 would have been gorgeous I imagine
    Zen Arado: think it is better now
    oO0Oo Resident: perhaps more multicultural now
    Zen Arado: but you need a lot of money to get a nice place
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: though there were lots of immigrants then too
    Zen Arado: you ever been there?
    oO0Oo Resident: yes I have
    oO0Oo Resident: lovely continent
    Zen Arado: tell me where you went to
    oO0Oo Resident: the birds and plants stand out for me
    oO0Oo Resident: well, I went right around
    oO0Oo Resident: not every place, but got around a fair bit
    oO0Oo Resident: Was in Melbourne briefly
    oO0Oo Resident: Queen Annes Market? Is that it?
    oO0Oo Resident: The public transport was very good
    Zen Arado: I was only in Melbourne for two short visits
    Zen Arado: remember the trams
    oO0Oo Resident: yes the trams
    Zen Arado: I went to Australia by boat
    Zen Arado: and we stopped en route
    Zen Arado: I have a friend from Melbourne lives in Belfast
    Zen Arado: seems to like it here
    Zen Arado: I spent 7 years in Sydney
    Zen Arado: and a year in Brisbane
    oO0Oo Resident: I'd take Sydney over Brisbane
    Zen Arado: me too
    oO0Oo Resident: Not to offend any Queenslanders out there
    Zen Arado: Brisbane is very hot and muggy in summer
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm, yes
    Zen Arado: Hi Cal :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening / day
    oO0Oo Resident: lovely sun shower rain at times and plants grow well
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Cal, Nio
    Zen Arado: wish I had gone back to see Sydney again when I was fitter
    Zen Arado: Hi Nio
    Zen Arado: the travelling would be too much for me now
    nio Artful: i was born to sidney
    nio Artful: my wife too
    nio Artful: but i am living in greece
    Zen Arado: yes?
    oO0Oo Resident: Sydney Australia Nio?
    Zen Arado: you are Australian then?
    nio Artful: yes,
    Zen Arado: but you don't live there now Nio?
    Zen Arado: ah I see
    nio Artful: i live in athens
    Zen Arado: did your parents emigrate to Australia like me?
    nio Artful: yes,
    nio Artful: but they had a bad luck
    Zen Arado: but they returned to Greece?
    nio Artful: they made a property
    Zen Arado: oh?
    nio Artful: and that part of land
    nio Artful: after a change of the city schedules
    nio Artful: had to be rased
    nio Artful: so they sold it cheap
    Zen Arado: bad luck
    Zen Arado: I was going to buy a piece of property
    nio Artful: and came back to greece ..and hopefully bought a good piece of field in a nice area north of athens
    Zen Arado: but I came back to Ireland for a holiday and never got around to going back
    Zen Arado: they wouldn't let me live there now
    nio Artful: thanks oOOo
    nio Artful: oh?
    oO0Oo Resident: your very welcome. hope it is helpful
    oO0Oo Resident: you're*
    nio Artful: i have bad greek spelling so it will not work
    nio Artful giggles
    oO0Oo Resident: np
    oO0Oo Resident: hahahahahha!!!!
    Zen Arado: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: hi observerM
    Zen Arado: Hi Observerm
    observerm Resident: hello
    Calvino Rabeni: I need to go friends, take care, have a good session
    oO0Oo Resident: ty Cal
    Zen Arado: bye Cal
    oO0Oo Resident: nice to see you
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    nio Artful: i had too much to think and solve in my life so i had not enough gbites of my brain memory to use for spelling ...that was luxury for my lol....
    nio Artful: my=me
    Zen Arado: you must have left Australia when very young?
    nio Artful: indeed
    Zen Arado: or English would be your first language
    Zen Arado: you could go and live there any time if you wanted?
    nio Artful: no greek is
    nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*YESSSSSS!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
    nio Artful: i have the fair
    oO0Oo Resident: hehehhehe
    Zen Arado: since you wre born there
    nio Artful: indeed
    nio Artful: my wife too
    nio Artful: but i need 2 years of staying there to have legal wrights
    Zen Arado: but you like Greece better ?
    nio Artful: legal
    Zen Arado: ah ok
    nio Artful: now greece has big problem
    nio Artful: crisis

    We shift to talking about finance and selfish behaviour:

    Zen Arado: ah financial problems like Ireland
    nio Artful: yes..
    nio Artful: we have a proverb in greece it says....
    Zen Arado: Australia seems unaffected by that
    nio Artful: the lier and the thief the first year they are hapy
    nio Artful: so there was alot of this bad cultyure around here
    nio Artful: and it had to colapse one day
    nio Artful: culture
    oO0Oo Resident: yes, sometimes things have to fall apart before renewal
    Zen Arado: yes - a kind of selfishness
    nio Artful: mmm
    Zen Arado: a culture of greed
    nio Artful: indeed
    oO0Oo Resident: then it is what is potentially lost that captures the hearts of those who might reinvest
    nio Artful: that was hard for me to understand
    Zen Arado: money is based on trust
    Zen Arado: its value doesn't exist really
    Zen Arado: it's only what we think it is
    Zen Arado: if we believe in it
    oO0Oo Resident: a place is imbued with the spirit of those that care about it. Then if greed is strong, the money and energy and chi, they flow away
    Zen Arado: yo think so?
    nio Artful: yes...the funny it that money is based also in the no trust......lol....contradictory but both happens in my subjective vew
    Zen Arado: scoundrels always seem to prosper
    oO0Oo Resident: hearts will always win
    Zen Arado: I hope you are right Sam
    Zen Arado: but inequality is always in societies
    oO0Oo Resident: it's just our lives are short
    oO0Oo Resident: so greed becomes appealing
    Zen Arado: 'the rich get richer and the poor get poorer '
    nio Artful: i believe that money and comercial are to the opposite side of unselfish empathy and love
    oO0Oo Resident: agree
    oO0Oo Resident: mostly
    oO0Oo Resident: not necessarily perhaps
    Zen Arado: 'the love of money is the root of all evil'
    Zen Arado: not the money but loving it too much
    Zen Arado: watched a TV documentary last night about how most of the top politicians in Britain were educated in public schools
    Zen Arado: that means expensive schools in Britain
    nio Artful: a short sighted understanding of our need to others................is like i need you in short term i do not trust you that you care for me so i want back now the exchanging symbol of the service i did to you in order to have it back in an sure way
    Zen Arado: if we give like that is not really giving Nio
    nio Artful: yes...
    Zen Arado: we should give and not expect anything back
    nio Artful: ~',','Oh..kay..kay..kay',','~
    nio Artful: why?
    Zen Arado: it is because we feel separate from others we think like that I think
    Zen Arado: and we have so much fear and insecurity
    nio Artful: indeed ...but is it bad to expect from others?
    Zen Arado: and we think money is the answer to that
    Zen Arado: it is if you depend on it
    nio Artful: do we feel comfortable when others appreciate us as VALUABLE?
    Zen Arado: but sometimes you have to....
    nio Artful: do we have to appreciate others too and make them feel so?
    nio Artful: would that have any meaning if there was not an expectation of them a realisation that we need them?
    Zen Arado: because I am disabled I sometimes need help from others
    Zen Arado: we do need others
    nio Artful: or the problem is that we do understand that we need them but only in a short shithed way? and that in the birth of selfish love?
    Zen Arado: we are all dependent on them ...more than we think
    nio Artful: yes,,,
    nio Artful: if we realise how much we need them for ever we will respect them and will never count how much we give to them ....
    Zen Arado: we are interdependent beings though we think we can be independent
    nio Artful: in order to take it back soon
    nio Artful: we will be taking of them for ever

    Learning how to be grateful:

    Zen Arado: others work hard to provide us with so many things we take for granted
    nio Artful: indeed
    Zen Arado: electricity, water
    nio Artful: and others are unfortunately numb little more as we are also are
    Zen Arado: we lost our water supply for a while here this winter
    Zen Arado: how bad that is
    nio Artful: ok...
    nio Artful: mmm
    Zen Arado: and we never even think how precious that is
    oO0Oo Resident listening to Nio, Zen
    Zen Arado: I used to work in power stations and we had to work during Christmas
    Zen Arado: but no one is grateful for that...
    Zen Arado: or even thinks about it
    Zen Arado: maybe we all aren't grateful enough....
    nio Artful: we say a proverb in my country.....keep on knocking as much you like to the stone deaf mans door....he would not listen you
    Zen Arado: understand Nio
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm
    nio Artful: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
    nio Artful: ok...
    nio Artful: sorry
    nio Artful: so thats the drama......
    oO0Oo Resident breathes out and relaxes
    nio Artful: we are defending by numbing our conciousness so we feel less pain and the side effect is we feel less our self ,others and god
    oO0Oo Resident: mmmm
    nio Artful: less ability for empathy to
    nio Artful: less awe
    nio Artful: of being alife
    Zen Arado: yes Nio - fear drives us into ourselves
    nio Artful: mmm
    Zen Arado: so what we need to do is....what?
    nio Artful: nice quetion .....this is my life question too
    nio Artful: lol....
    nio Artful: question
    Zen Arado: we need to try to be more open to others maybe
    nio Artful: i onlyk now that i do not exist i want to exist
    nio Artful: and i remember how i were when i was existing
    Zen Arado: do you know the lojong slogans?
    nio Artful: no..
    Zen Arado: Sam?
    oO0Oo Resident: yes Zen... Lojong is wonderful
    nio Artful: i have tried some affairs but did not work lol..
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Zen Arado: this chat reminded me of the one 'Be grateful to everyone'
    Zen Arado: http://lojongmindtraining.com/Commen...r=3&proverb=13
    nio Artful: may i also learn that?
    nio Artful: oh nice i will open it
    Zen Arado: sure
    oO0Oo Resident: if you remember LIFE Nio, then it is still in you, and can be again
    Zen Arado: there are 59 of them I think ?
    oO0Oo Resident: caring for/about others is a good path to life
    Zen Arado: yes - and it opens us to their problems
    nio Artful: i know the way but there is a canyon i have to cross and there are not enough skills and tools to bridge it up to now
    Zen Arado: we realize we all have them
    oO0Oo Resident: yes
    Zen Arado: we have to work at it I think
    nio Artful: i have bipolar disorder 2 and this is making my efforts double difficult
    Zen Arado: selfishness seems to come more naturally to us I think :)
    oO0Oo Resident: you don't seem selfish to me Nio
    Zen Arado: me either
    nio Artful: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
    Zen Arado: bipolar is difficult

    Nio's sound effects:

    oO0Oo Resident loves the cute sound effects
    Zen Arado: :)
    nio Artful: every winter i have my resarection lol..
    nio Artful: i have 2 folders collection of such voices i can share them with you if you want
    Zen Arado: I don't even use the ones I have
    Zen Arado: Hey!
    oO0Oo Resident: i just enjoy how others express themselves nio. ty very much
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    nio Artful: ok..
    nio Artful: yayyyyyyy!!!
    oO0Oo Resident: reminds me of bertram
    Zen Arado: Hey!
    oO0Oo Resident: hahahahahhaa!!!!!!
    oO0Oo Resident: they shift the energy. Do you notice?
    nio Artful: yw
    nio Artful: yes...\
    oO0Oo Resident: make things light and fun
    oO0Oo Resident: cheerful
    oO0Oo Resident: it's nice
    oO0Oo Resident: for me
    Zen Arado: I have a French friend uses them a lot
    nio Artful: i put dots after short words because usually these are triggers of such gestures and when i am in serious talk they distract me
    Zen Arado: can you get them into the gestures menu?
    Zen Arado: I seem to have lost some of mine
    nio Artful: these are extra of the standard gestures sl gives
    nio Artful: people making them and share them
    nio Artful: i also made a lot music dance gestures
    nio Artful: im amateur musician
    nio Artful: but do not use them here pl
    Zen Arado: ty Nio
    nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*You're Welcome!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
    nio Artful: ΠΑΡΑΚΑΛΩ
    Zen Arado: will try them later
    oO0Oo Resident: thoughtful and polite, as well as not selfish Nio
    oO0Oo Resident: also generous

    Lojong slogans:

    Zen Arado: I am practicing with these slogans again
    Zen Arado: I choose one every morning and think of it during the day
    nio Artful: in the ones in the link?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: also called 'The Seven Steps of Mind Training'
    oO0Oo Resident: I find the commentaries at this site useful: http://lojongmindtraining.com/default.aspx
    Zen Arado: that site I gave you the link to is useful because it has 7 commentaries on each slogan
    nio Artful: nice i bookmark both of them
    Zen Arado: it's the same one Sam :)
    Zen Arado: but your's is the opening page
    oO0Oo Resident: Also an ongoing series at Tricycle by Judy Lief: http://www.tricycle.com/complete-lojong-slogans
    Zen Arado: yes
    oO0Oo Resident: 1 each week
    Zen Arado: I read them too
    Zen Arado: might need a subscription for those?
    oO0Oo Resident: no
    oO0Oo Resident: shouldn't need
    Zen Arado: oh good
    Zen Arado: I have one anyway
    Zen Arado: so many articles to read
    Zen Arado: too many maybe
    Zen Arado: can get me confused
    Zen Arado: but you take what you wnat or need from them maybe
    oO0Oo Resident: there's no problem
    oO0Oo Resident: it percolates
    nio Artful: nice
    Zen Arado: I was reading authors recently nearly put me off meditation
    Zen Arado: but I prefer to have my ideas challenged
    Zen Arado: better than barinwashing yourself by reading narrowly things that you believe already
    Zen Arado: I think anyway
    Zen Arado: so long as you don't get too confused
    Zen Arado: and the good stuff percolates and gets distilled out as you say Sam
    nio Artful: what is brainwashing?
    Zen Arado: kind of like reading things you want to believe over and over again
    Zen Arado: convincing yourself
    oO0Oo Resident: excuse me, I must go. A pleasure to have your good company Nio, and Zen
    oO0Oo Resident: see you again
    nio Artful: /
    Zen Arado: think the term comes from a technique the Russians used to make prisoners believe things they didn't to start with?
    Zen Arado: bye Sam
    nio Artful: bye...
    Zen Arado: I better go too Nio
    Zen Arado: nice to talk again
    nio Artful: nice to talk to you too
    nio Artful: bye...
    Zen Arado: bye

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core