2011.01.27 07:00 - Learning what to be and how to be

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    The Guardian for most of this meeting was Storm Nordwind (until his internet connection crashed irreparably). The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

    A little light banter to start.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi there!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi arch
    Storm Nordwind waves to Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Storm, Hi, Yaku :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning bleu
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Bleu L)
    Storm Nordwind: I suspect the hawk must have eaten the koi
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: then the koi weren´t patient enough
    Archmage Atlantis: Sounds like a likely scenario for rl, Storm :).......I know the herons, bears and alligators in my neighborhood love pond fish
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello sun
    Storm Nordwind: yes they do Arch, and the reason why many owners put strings across their ponds
    Archmage Atlantis: That doesn't stop the bears tho
    Archmage Atlantis: nor the alligators
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we used to have a lot of little bunnies around the house but the Uhu got them all unfortunatly
    Storm Nordwind: Bears and alligators are unusual in my original country!
    Archmage Atlantis: That is why my koi are on the screened patio
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Uhu = eagle owl
    Bleu Oleander: hi Sunshine
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi all ;)
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome Sunshine

    Sunshine arrives and talks about Nelson Mandela.

    Sunshine Vayandar: greetings from the bottom of planet
    Archmage Atlantis: Although bears and cougars can come thru screens if they want to enought
    Storm Nordwind: You are in Antarctica?
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: south africa
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi arch ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: mandela is in the hospital
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;(
    Sunshine Vayandar: they say it is a checkup
    Storm Nordwind: I hadn't seen. When did that happen?
    Sunshine Vayandar: yesterday as far as I know
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm he is very old
    Archmage Atlantis: The article I read says he is 92 yo now
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes
    Sunshine Vayandar: "I saw him last week," Tutu told Sapa while at an anti-tuberculosis event in Guguletu, Cape Town. "He was all right, I mean, he's 92, you know. And he's frail."
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ;(
    Sunshine Vayandar: i hope he improves but anything can happen

    A question of legacy.

    Archmage Atlantis: He has accomplished a lot in this lifetime, the question for those who will go on is will that accomplishment remain viable.
    Storm Nordwind: Good point Arch. What do you think?
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm those results are the accomplishment of many people here in SA
    Sunshine Vayandar: not just one person
    Sunshine Vayandar: he does mean a lot to his communities here and all over the world
    Sunshine Vayandar: I am from hungary - living here for 13 years
    Sunshine Vayandar: feeling blessed to be in the same country with him and others like him
    Archmage Atlantis: I think I am glad he lived, and yes Sun......and that is a good thing......so in South Africa yes......but for the world as a whole.......that remains open
    Sunshine Vayandar: this is quite a topic to discuss

    The blessing of being here.

    Storm Nordwind: I also feel blessed in small ways too - to be in this country, here in Second Life, where so many inspiring people come to talk and share and change things one person at a time.
    Sunshine Vayandar: same here Storm
    Bleu Oleander: agree Storm :)

    Doing what's right.

    Sunshine Vayandar: to me knowing Mandela is proof that you can just stand up and do what is right
    Sunshine Vayandar: I need to hear about him to believe that it's possible
    Storm Nordwind: When corruption and self-interest is all around us, those reminders are good!
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes I realised - I can just stand up and fix things around me
    Archmage Atlantis: I do agree with that statement Storm, without sl I could not connect with so many thoughtful ppl.
    Sunshine Vayandar: you know sometimes we think - it's not right to just give people a hug on the street hmm
    Sunshine Vayandar: or do what is right - because it looks crazy
    Sunshine Vayandar: I meet lots crazy ppl in SL ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, to understand what´s right is a big subject as well
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes of course
    Sunshine Vayandar: but what I mean is - what I feel is right at that moment
    Sunshine Vayandar: many times I would tell myself - I am too shy to do it
    Archmage Atlantis: Sometimes to do what one believe is right is more than just crazy, it can be dangerous to one's self and those whom one is close to in life.
    Sunshine Vayandar: too embarassing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ppl in the west consume much more ressources then the world would be able to handle to deliver for everyone
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes
    Sunshine Vayandar: so many things seem obviously wrong
    Sunshine Vayandar: about moden society
    Sunshine Vayandar: modern

    Differences in societies.

    Sunshine Vayandar: I came to africa to learn new ways
    Archmage Atlantis: I grew up in the segregated SE USA, I know how difficult, and at times violent, change for the better can be (with apologizes to those who have already heard that comment frrom me)
    Sunshine Vayandar: can u tell me about it?
    Sunshine Vayandar: or everyone else heard ;)
    Storm Nordwind: I have a short memory. Repeats are good :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;) yes they are
    Storm Nordwind: (When you get older, your memory is the second thing that goes :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
    Archmage Atlantis: I think another forum would be best, but I do not mind recalling it.......for me, now, it is a story of hope and power.....Like Mandela and South Africa
    Archmage Atlantis: Living something is very different from remembering it and telling the story
    Sunshine Vayandar: I was thinking about this more on a basic level
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I talked to a guy from south africa lately and his perspective wasn´t that amazing in south africa, he had a college degree but i would love to go to like europe because his perspectives weren´t that well down there.
    Sunshine Vayandar: he was a south african?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, strong afrikaans accent :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: ek sien ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: if you are white - it might be difficult to find your place here
    Sunshine Vayandar: and many people complain about not finding jobs
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and the aspect that there are regulations to bring more black ppl into better jobs so with same education black ppl have advantages
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s tricky
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes hmm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: he didn´t sound racist but he had that issue himself so he was a bit split
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes it's normal
    Sunshine Vayandar: we all experience these issues
    Sunshine Vayandar: being a white zulu is not easy ;p
    Sunshine Vayandar: but I feel fortunate to be here
    Sunshine Vayandar: I am not here to make money or have a modern lifestyle
    Bleu Oleander: slips out quietly ... bye all :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bleu
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee ;)
    Archmage Atlantis: being a gay, lesbian, transsexual, transgendered or intersexed is not easy, whatever one's skin color is
    Archmage Atlantis: Bye Bleu
    Sunshine Vayandar: why you say that arch
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes true
    Archmage Atlantis: Personal experience
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i sometimes wonder if it´s even good to think of ppl differently then ,,just being humans"
    Sunshine Vayandar: I also think that Yakuzza

    Wanting people to see you differently from how you think they see you.

    Sunshine Vayandar: I have become so different from others with time
    Sunshine Vayandar: I wish they would just see me as a human being
    Sunshine Vayandar: not white, or hippy or non-religious
    Sunshine Vayandar: no chrisitan hmm
    Sunshine Vayandar: sorry for typos ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so is any form of nationalism even a bad concept ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: storm, are you a scott ? are you a buddist ? an american ?
    Sunshine Vayandar: after traveling for a while - I do wish there were no borders
    Storm Nordwind: I was never a Scott Yaku! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
    Sunshine Vayandar: what are you ;)
    Archmage Atlantis: Actually, there are those who say they can recognize ppl with different avatars in sl by their typos *g*
    Storm Nordwind: Or even a Scot :)
    Storm Nordwind nods to Arch
    Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
    Sunshine Vayandar: I type Hunglish
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, you just lived in scotland right ?
    Storm Nordwind: May I ask Sunshine why you feel it important to have others see you like that?
    Sunshine Vayandar: like a human being?
    Storm Nordwind: I think that's what you said, yes
    Sunshine Vayandar: because I am different - people simply don't talk to me many times
    Sunshine Vayandar: as soon as they hear I don't go to church
    Storm Nordwind whispers to Yak that he was just exiled in Scotland for 6 years! :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: for example

    Missing community but staying separate.

    Sunshine Vayandar: this means that I rarely go out - and miss a sense of community
    Sunshine Vayandar: some people feel too strange - to be with me lol
    Sunshine Vayandar: it's a small conservative town
    Storm Nordwind: But would enjoying that sense of community be more important to you than the knowledge that you're being what you want to be, independent of what others are?
    Sunshine Vayandar: being me is the foundation
    Sunshine Vayandar: so if I have to be alone - it's ok
    Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
    Sunshine Vayandar: I can't imagine me going to church hehe
    Sunshine Vayandar: that would not be me at all
    Sunshine Vayandar: this is really a good questions - most of us think about I think
    Sunshine Vayandar: question
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi observe
    Sunshine Vayandar: but wouldn't it be nice if people were more accepting in general
    Sunshine Vayandar: we are all just people ;)

    Being oneself.

    Archmage Atlantis: For me, and this is going to sound cliched, accepting and being me as I am is the core of accepting others as they are
    Archmage Atlantis: Regardless of their opinion of me
    Sunshine Vayandar: it's interesting you say that arch
    Sunshine Vayandar: have u heard about Ubuntu
    Archmage Atlantis: Sometimes easier said than done tho
    Sunshine Vayandar: Archbishop Desmond Tutu says that
    Storm Nordwind: Ah... we can go some way towards people, and show them an example of tolerance and acceptance, with compromising what we truly are - or so I believe :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: Arch Tutu says
    Sunshine Vayandar: I need you to be you - so that I can be me.
    Sunshine Vayandar: that feels very right to me ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I am usually in a struggle with ,,being myself" since i also believe that ,,i am others" and what i am exposed by.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Accepting myself in accepting of being others.
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: so how are you someone else?
    Sunshine Vayandar: we tend to say - we are one
    Sunshine Vayandar: but how does one understand that
    Sunshine Vayandar: I had this experience when I was in Tunis - and was invited to a dinner with friends from mauritania

    (At this point I crashed and left the session.)

    Sunshine Vayandar: you know a kind of oneness experience
    Sunshine Vayandar: we started talking about things and drinking tea ...
    Sunshine Vayandar: and with time - I had that feeling I don't know who is talking
    Sunshine Vayandar: I felt like we were one person

    (My absence is noticed.)

    Sunshine Vayandar: storm is gone hmm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: with the wind
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: I hope he took his parachute
    Archmage Atlantis: Probably crashed, it is unlike storm to leave without saying bye

    "I am others" redux.

    Sunshine Vayandar: so what does one mean when one says - I am you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes probably
    Archmage Atlantis: That is a beautiful skirt, Sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;)
    Archmage Atlantis: yw
    Sunshine Vayandar: "[07:43] Yakuzza Lethecus: I am usually in a struggle with ,,being myself" since i also believe that ,,i am others" and what i am exposed by."
    Sunshine Vayandar: I'd love to hear more about it Yak ;)

    Yak's journey.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: Well this kind of leads into a journey that brings up questions for myself all the time.
    Sunshine Vayandar listens with big eyes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Do i think in Language, where did i learn which concept in life, why am i not mindful
    Sunshine Vayandar: mindful?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how do ppl in my peergroup react on ppl meditating, can i talk about what i think without being looked at strangly as soon as i even mention a virtual world
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm sounds very familiar
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well it brings me into reading about determinism, thinking itself
    Sunshine Vayandar: all of those points
    Yakuzza Lethecus: conditions in which i actually really feel to learn something or when i especially just learn without to recognize it
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes I prefer doing my own thing and tend to do it more alone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how to communicate emotions, fears, values, private stuff
    Sunshine Vayandar: places and situations that I can learn from
    Sunshine Vayandar: I want to see if it is possible to live really without pretence
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what is meditation ? how is it different for every one of us ? is it innert but in a modern society we don´t recognize it until there is a pricetag on it ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a journey with many open questions and being in fact others is a concept i am most likely to follow
    Sunshine Vayandar: you know I learnt from Mandela - that I need to do - what feels right for me..
    Archmage Atlantis: I tend to seek analogy in my own experience.,,,,how to be a gay person, without being offensive about that part of myself, ......, although, to be honest, I get more reaction to coming across as "arrogant".....*smile*

    Learning from individuals and community.

    Sunshine Vayandar: and learning about meditation is crucial I think - for me
    Sunshine Vayandar: my best friend here in SA is lesbian
    Sunshine Vayandar: so I got to know the gay community a bit
    Sunshine Vayandar: learnt lots from knowing her
    Sunshine Vayandar: we worked together with her on my non profit project - for many years
    Sunshine Vayandar: even though she was from south africa and I was from hungary - we had soooo much in common
    Sunshine Vayandar: it felt like home to me - when we got into one of our chats
    Sunshine Vayandar: and so it helped me as well to experience and understand about gay and lesbian communities here in SA
    Archmage Atlantis: I understand, Sun, to be find someone with whom one can be very open is a gift
    Sunshine Vayandar: oh forgot the bell ;) sorry
    Sunshine Vayandar: isn't it
    Sunshine Vayandar: someone that knows what u need without u saying it
    Archmage Atlantis: That is what draws me here, there are many such persons here
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;) well if I can be of help guys just IM me
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: I would like to learn sooo much about meditation
    Sunshine Vayandar: I learn everytime I chat with people
    Yakuzza Lethecus: An issue is often that those whom i trust i usually don´t grant that they would understand me.
    Sunshine Vayandar: I used to have my project for 10 years
    Sunshine Vayandar: and initially I thought I had to teach ppl
    Sunshine Vayandar: because I know better somehow
    Sunshine Vayandar: now I feel the opposite
    Sunshine Vayandar: rather wanna listen and learn

    Winding up.

    Archmage Atlantis: I need to go, ty both (and Storm) for a healthy open conversation.....Blessings and Namaste to you. :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: blessings ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm interesting chat - started from Ntata Madiba
    Sunshine Vayandar: don't wanna keep you Yak if you need to go ;p
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i was just looking up mandela´s alternative names :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: we usually call him Madiba
    Sunshine Vayandar: or just Tata
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Khulu
    Sunshine Vayandar: granddad?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.nelsonmandela.org/index.p...y/views/names/
    Sunshine Vayandar: ah kk yes ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: Khulu
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t know all the names until know
    Yakuzza Lethecus: now
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm unless you are here - u would not hear them
    Sunshine Vayandar: and names are just names anyway
    Sunshine Vayandar: it's about all the things he has done
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, he´s a symbol
    Sunshine Vayandar: he is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i will log off now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: be well, thx for being here

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