2011.01.28 01:00 - The furry/tiny protest picnic

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

     

    Kit Ciaco: hi, ya WOL!!!!
    Wol Euler: hello kit, hello sam
    Kit Ciaco: I WON!!!!!!
    Wol Euler: :))))
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Wol :)


    --BELL--


    Kit Ciaco: how embarrassing.....
    Wol Euler: you certainly win the sitting-in-midair prize
    Kit Ciaco turns beat red....
    Kit Ciaco: it's my new ao - I'm so proud.....
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Kit Ciaco: designed for people who don't want to have to walk anywhere
    Wol Euler: heh
    Kit Ciaco: just big ol fat lazy folk such as moi
    Wol Euler: like there are dresses designed for people who never sit down.
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Kit Ciaco: sitting down is a spiritual path
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Kit Ciaco: I am all kinds of into sitting behavior!
    Kit Ciaco: And I don't like having to fit my form into other people's chairs....
    Kit Ciaco: O and I were just talking about that a little bit ago
    Kit Ciaco: no we weren't I was on a diatribe and O was listening politely
    Wol Euler: heheheheheh
    Wol Euler: would you care to recap for the entire world to hear? :)
    Kit Ciaco: Not that I ever go on diatribes, you understand.....
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Kit Ciaco: Yes..
    Kit Ciaco: oh
    Kit Ciaco: wait....
    Kit Ciaco: better not
    Wol Euler laughs.
    oO0Oo Resident listens politely
    Kit Ciaco: the guilty person has a habit of reading all my stuff online....
    Kit Ciaco: JUST TEASING, JESSIE!!!!!!!
    Wol Euler: well, we don't want that.
    oO0Oo Resident: hehehehe
    Wol Euler notes Sam's new outfit and smiles.
    Wol Euler: yakkity yak indeed :)
    oO0Oo Resident: I thought of Yakuzza
    Kit Ciaco: Let us just say - that after a particular visit I came away with a fresh respect and appreciation for being comfortable
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Kit Ciaco: Who is Yakuzza?
    Kit Ciaco: or what?
    Kit Ciaco: or WHERE!?!?!?!
    Wol Euler: oh, you'll meet him. A nearly-silent regular here.
    Kit Ciaco: For goodness sakes, someone enlighten me!
    Kit Ciaco: oh!
    oO0Oo Resident: He was the person who first invited me to PaB
    Kit Ciaco: OH!
    oO0Oo Resident: very kind
    oO0Oo Resident: thoughtful
    Wol Euler: indeed
    Kit Ciaco: And what is it that reminds you of this silent one?
    oO0Oo Resident: from germany
    oO0Oo Resident: smart
    Wol Euler smiles.
    oO0Oo Resident: interested in challenging himself
    Kit Ciaco: oooh! I like that!
    Wol Euler: hard on himself, very critical
    oO0Oo Resident: a bit hard at times
    Kit Ciaco: oooh, not so much....
    oO0Oo Resident: not so much
    Wol Euler: he has very high standards for himself and is disappointed when he has trouble reaching them
    Wol Euler: an example from RL (we met at a retreat in Malta)
    Kit Ciaco: yes, that song sounds familiar....
    Wol Euler: he was complaining about how difficult he finds it to read in English
    Wol Euler: saying that he was reading John Rawls on Natural Law and had only managed to get a few chapters in to it!
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!
    oO0Oo Resident: hehehe
    Wol Euler: exactly.
    Kit Ciaco: Heck, I'd have trouble with that!
    oO0Oo Resident: disciplined
    Wol Euler: there are American law students who can't read John Rawls.
    Kit Ciaco: Just for sport, he ought to read some Blake
    Kit Ciaco: That's enough to make anyone cross their eyeballs
    oO0Oo Resident: what do you have when you've got a lwayer buried up to their neck in sand?
    Kit Ciaco: and yet.... why do I love him so?????
    Kit Ciaco: What do you do????
    oO0Oo Resident: not enough sand
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!!!!!
    Kit Ciaco: Ya know
    Kit Ciaco: I once had to speak to a a large gathering of lawyers at some kind of luncheon meeting
    Kit Ciaco: I was the invited guest
    oO0Oo Resident apologises to any lawyers who may be reading
    Kit Ciaco: I made the deplorable mistake of beginning my remarks with a lawyer joke.....
    Kit Ciaco: You know how hard it is to make a hilarious joke to a group of 100 people, and find them all glaring back at you???
    oO0Oo Resident: um... ya
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!
    Kit Ciaco: It was one of my shortest talks I ever gave, I can tell you THAT!!!!!
    oO0Oo Resident: Rawls
    oO0Oo Resident: ghost in the machine?
    Kit Ciaco: I'm not familiar with him.....
    oO0Oo Resident: vague memory
    Kit Ciaco: My reading material these days run more along the lines of Milne....
    Kit Ciaco: Though I do so love Montaigne....
    Kit Ciaco: Anywone who can seriously discuss farting behavior is okay by me....
    Kit Ciaco: ?me cannot BELIEVE she just said that!!!!!
    Kit Ciaco: sigh....
    oO0Oo Resident: what's a little wind between friends?
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!
    Wol Euler: back, reading, laughing
    Kit Ciaco: That's exactly what Montaigne says!
    Wol Euler: sorry about that, neighbour at the door
    Wol Euler: hooray for Montaigne, absolutely.


    --BELL--


    oO0Oo Resident: nice to think of Wol and Yaku in Malta
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Kit Ciaco: yes
    Wol Euler: it was a great time, the RL retreats are quite wonderful
    Wol Euler: I could well imagine quitting my job and my apartment and living in a monastery, as long as it had high-speed internet access
    Wol Euler grins.
    oO0Oo Resident: hehehe
    Kit Ciaco: yes, and allowed dogs and cats, goats and chickens.... and family members....
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Kit Ciaco: well, not ALL family members, mind you....
    Kit Ciaco: and of course, flutes
    Wol Euler: right
    Kit Ciaco: do vows of silence extend to music?
    Wol Euler: a good question.
    Kit Ciaco: We have an old abbey near here
    Kit Ciaco: been around for decades
    Kit Ciaco: but they don't let women in
    Wol Euler: as far as I know they forbid speech rather than communication as such, so probably no.
    Kit Ciaco: I've always wanted to go
    Kit Ciaco: I actually considered going as a guy once
    Wol Euler grins.
    oO0Oo Resident: shocking KIt
    Kit Ciaco: but I thought - using deception to get into a monestary - hmmmmm
    Kit Ciaco: I know....
    Wol Euler: bad karma
    Kit Ciaco: indeed!
    Kit Ciaco: The devil has got the goods on me as it is!
    Kit Ciaco: why give him/her more ammo!
    oO0Oo Resident: better to go as furry or tiny
    Wol Euler: though they are sometimes excluded too.
    Kit Ciaco: yes....
    Wol Euler: there's a lot of prejudice against furries, I now notice
    Kit Ciaco: I think they disallow furries and tinies as well....
    oO0Oo Resident: why?!
    Kit Ciaco: and tinies, too.... sometimes
    Wol Euler: many beaches don't allow them
    Kit Ciaco: really????
    Kit Ciaco: how awful!
    Wol Euler: the SL Cologne Cathedral won't let them attend its inworld services
    Wol Euler: "humans only"
    Kit Ciaco: you are kidding me!!!!!!
    Wol Euler: nope
    oO0Oo Resident: we should hold a protest
    Kit Ciaco: don't they worry about furry souls?
    Kit Ciaco: Yes, I agree!!!!
    Wol Euler: well, I shold say that it's been three years since I went, perhaps they have changed -- or even closed down :)
    Kit Ciaco: hmph!
    oO0Oo Resident: we could do a rotational sit in
    Kit Ciaco: yes....
    Kit Ciaco: But do we get to dress up as furries????
    Wol Euler: :)
    Kit Ciaco: But seriously, that is so wrong....
    Wol Euler: agreed
    oO0Oo Resident: I think come in and then change right
    Kit Ciaco: The only thing I disallow on my place is nudity
    Wol Euler: I think it's the same as with their refusing admission to women
    Kit Ciaco: I really hate it when folks come to the dojo without clothes on.....
    Wol Euler: they are afraid of our appeal to their sexual desires
    Kit Ciaco: yes
    Wol Euler: which are of course *our* fault not theirs
    Kit Ciaco: and I think if they are that intimidated they are in the wrong place anyway
    Kit Ciaco: I think a monastic life should not be a place to escape but rather to embrace
    Wol Euler: interesting that I used the word "fault" :) falling into that way of thinking
    Wol Euler waves silently to Obs
    oO0Oo Resident: yes, I was having a hard time swallowing that one
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Observerm
    Wol Euler: it's hard to believe that the god who gave us our minds and bodies, doesn't want us to use them
    observerm Resident: hello
    Kit Ciaco: well, much of what passes a "religion" is simply organized biotry....
    Kit Ciaco claps hands over mouth tightly!!!!!
    Wol Euler: much of the content of most religions is men trying to control women's sexuality.
    Kit Ciaco: TRUE!
    Kit Ciaco: /claps hands over her mouth!
    Wol Euler: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: I hope you are happy in this moment Observerm


    --BELL--


    Wol Euler: so yes, kit, it would definitely be a good idea to go as a furry :)
    Wol Euler: experience for yourself that exclusion and demonification (if that's the word)
    Kit Ciaco: Good!
    Kit Ciaco: I don't really get it, though?
    oO0Oo Resident: is there any stated reason for the bannings or discrimination?
    Kit Ciaco: Are they unaware that there are real people living under the fuzz?
    Kit Ciaco: You think there can be legit reasons?
    Wol Euler: the reason was that there are no furries or tinies in RL
    Wol Euler: well ...
    Kit Ciaco: Well, there ain't no people flying, neither!
    Wol Euler: or TPing
    Kit Ciaco: so does that mean their membership are not allowed to fly???
    oO0Oo Resident: etc, etc , etc
    Kit Ciaco: wow
    Wol Euler: not during services, perhaps :)
    Kit Ciaco: Oh, now iI want to GO!
    Wol Euler: it is possible for sim owners to ban flying or TP on their prpoperty
    Wol Euler: perhaps they do that too
    Kit Ciaco be still, my heart.....
    Wol Euler: :)
    Kit Ciaco: they can ban flying
    Kit Ciaco: I don't think tpping can be restricted
    oO0Oo Resident: is this the Lab policy we are talking about?
    Wol Euler: in effect, yes, kit, by defining an enforced landing point.
    Wol Euler: you can TP all you want but you always end up at the same spot
    Kit Ciaco: some sims ban flying because it gives unfair advantage during role play
    Wol Euler: no, sam, private policy
    oO0Oo Resident: so, are there mechanisms for protest or group action in SL?
    Wol Euler: which is no different to a RL club having a doorman with an exclusion policy
    Kit Ciaco: Well, I fear their intolerance would enhance my own intolerance.....
    Wol Euler: bad karma again :)
    Wol Euler: what goes around really does come around
    Kit Ciaco: indeed!
    oO0Oo Resident: Perhaps a pro furry tinies picnic or something.
    Wol Euler: good idea!
    Kit Ciaco: a pro furries flute fest
    Wol Euler: !!!
    Kit Ciaco: or unicycle marathon!
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Wol Euler: oh, I'll have to mod these to attachto my upper legs when I'm furry
    Wol Euler: erm, and also the hand. heh.
    Kit Ciaco: ummm - ya got two different keys going
    Wol Euler: furries have such trouble with human attachments :)
    Kit Ciaco: the one is a G and the other is an F sharp.....
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!
    Kit Ciaco: LOL,m O!!!!!!
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Kit Ciaco: Another great product from the little workshop at the dojo!
    oO0Oo Resident rubs head
    Kit Ciaco: O, I think you're getting better on that thing!
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    oO0Oo Resident: ty Kit..and sorry Wol
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Wol Euler: np :) I enjoyed watching
    Kit Ciaco: Seriously - I think we should make a big event
    Kit Ciaco: I'll pass out all kinds of freebies to participants
    Wol Euler: well, let's just ensure that the cathedral still does ban furries before we protest there ;-)
    Wol Euler: *make sure
    Kit Ciaco: LOL - good plan!
    Kit Ciaco: It's an interesting thing
    Kit Ciaco: the notion of banning
    Kit Ciaco: I've had to ban a guy once
    Wol Euler: yeah
    Kit Ciaco: it's not something I do readily
    Wol Euler nods.
    Kit Ciaco: and strictly case by case
    Kit Ciaco: and has to do with behavior, not identity
    Wol Euler: absolutely
    Wol Euler: which is why a blanket ban on furries (outside of RP) is so wrong
    Kit Ciaco: Hey - I wonder if CNN will do a story.....
    Wol Euler: :)
    Kit Ciaco: I shall have to brush my teeth just in case.....
    Kit Ciaco: yes - it makes no sense to me.....
    oO0Oo Resident: Tateru Nino might cover it


    --BELL--


    Wol Euler: the best explanation I can think of is that the banners think that *all* of SL is RP
    Kit Ciaco: WOW - that's fairly narrow thinking.....
    Wol Euler: Tateru would definitely cover that!
    oO0Oo Resident: a broad thinking lady
    Kit Ciaco: Well, I want to be a part, if it turns out they are in fact banning furries from services
    Kit Ciaco begins to work on her picket sign.....
    oO0Oo Resident: I'm in
    Wol Euler: I'm reading their website at the moment, so far no mention of rules of attendance
    Kit Ciaco: Well, that is encouraging.....
    Kit Ciaco sets aside magic marker for a moment
    Wol Euler: I'll go along and check it out on the weekend
    Kit Ciaco: ok
    Wol Euler: so, back :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Tateru was writing about new leadership in SL ~Rod Humble ~ speculating on whether they will try to "clean up" things t make SL more sellable
    Wol Euler nods.
    Kit Ciaco: oh?
    oO0Oo Resident: that possibly Micosoft might be contending to buy it
    Wol Euler: there's been a lot of speculation about that, presuming that the original VC investors will be wanting their money plus huge profit back soon
    Kit Ciaco: I think one of their biggest problems has to do with the entry port
    oO0Oo Resident: it calls into question such interesting sociological things
    Kit Ciaco: any company who loses 90 percent of the people who register almost immediately needs to look at that
    oO0Oo Resident: do residents get a say in their world?
    Kit Ciaco: hehehehehe.....
    Wol Euler: *residents* would, but we are *customers*
    Wol Euler: this is not a democracy
    oO0Oo Resident: Observerm... you don't work for Microsoft do you?
    Wol Euler: unfortunately, or perhaps not :)
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    oO0Oo Resident: customers
    oO0Oo Resident: but also value creators
    Wol Euler: absolutely!
    Kit Ciaco: yes
    Wol Euler: *we* are what SL sells
    Kit Ciaco: We ARE the world!
    Kit Ciaco: all of us
    Kit Ciaco: who "live" here
    Wol Euler: *we* are what attracts other customers to join and remain in SL
    oO0Oo Resident: public commons artists
    Wol Euler: yep
    Kit Ciaco: I have written several blogs about SL
    Wol Euler: they don't or won't see that though.
    oO0Oo Resident: the whole shebang
    Kit Ciaco: but so far none of the people who read my stuff and tried to join could even get in!
    oO0Oo Resident: Kit??
    Kit Ciaco: O?
    oO0Oo Resident: what do you mean?
    Kit Ciaco: Well, I sing the praises of SL quite often
    oO0Oo Resident: reading back
    Kit Ciaco: and people come to me and say, "Man, I want to be there!"
    Wol Euler: what's the URL please?
    Kit Ciaco: and then, oh, perhaps ten people, have told me that they could not upload or couldn't get enrolled, or whatever
    Kit Ciaco: and then others said yes, they got in but the learning curve was so steep and there were no inworld real greeters to hold their hands
    Wol Euler: right!
    Wol Euler: since LL killed the Mentors program
    Wol Euler: who were the greeters and handholders
    Kit Ciaco: So they lose interest and tell me they will live in SL vicariously through my reproted exploits
    Wol Euler: that was probably the single biggest bad/stupid decision
    Kit Ciaco: you're kidding!!!!!!
    Wol Euler: nope
    Wol Euler: I used to be one
    Kit Ciaco: they had a mentor program and killed it????????
    Kit Ciaco: SERIOUSL!!!!!!!!
    Kit Ciaco: My word.
    Wol Euler: I spent all my time on the Orientation Island (as it was then) where newborns landed
    Wol Euler: improving that first-hour experience
    Wol Euler: and I know that many people to whom I spoke are in SL still today
    Kit Ciaco: I had a friend from off world who held my hand the first few weeks
    Kit Ciaco: gave me a little mad money to help out
    Kit Ciaco: it made all the difference for me
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Kit Ciaco: Wow... I'm just.... amazed.....
    Wol Euler: the single biggest determining factor in whether a newborn will stay in SL or not, is whether they make a friend during their first day online
    Kit Ciaco: I agree!
    Wol Euler: (friend in the social sense, the RL sense)
    Wol Euler: those who do, stay
    Kit Ciaco: it's like that with most organizations
    Kit Ciaco: kind of what O was speaking to sort of
    Kit Ciaco: just basic sociology 101
    Kit Ciaco: folks remain in an environment when they belong, and they belong when they are connected - to even only a single person!
    Wol Euler: right
    Kit Ciaco: wow....
    Kit Ciaco: I just can't get over that!
    oO0Oo Resident: I saw the Shelter in Wol's picks and from there went to see if I could hep some people there, even though I myself am new
    Kit Ciaco: I ussed to think I'd like to volunteer to go to the newbie areas
    Wol Euler smiles
    Kit Ciaco: help folks get on board


    --BELL--


    Kit Ciaco: We are all new to some extent - what matters is the connection!
    Wol Euler nods.
    oO0Oo Resident: it takes a pretty thick skin to get through a lot of the info areas, as they stand today... as a newcomer
    Kit Ciaco: indeed!
    Wol Euler: right, but those aren't newborn places
    Wol Euler: the trouble with them is that older residents can and do get in
    Wol Euler: and hang around making noise
    Kit Ciaco: and unfortunately sometimes exploit....
    Wol Euler: only newborns (and mentors,when that program ran) can get onto the newborn places
    Kit Ciaco: I know the fairy place
    Kit Ciaco: can't remember its name
    Kit Ciaco: it was designed around newbies
    Wol Euler: the welcome areas and info areas are uniformly awful (socially)
    Kit Ciaco: you can't even get in there after 40 days
    Kit Ciaco: it was gorgous
    Wol Euler: that sounds good, kit
    Kit Ciaco: I agree....
    Kit Ciaco: I used to go there all the time
    Kit Ciaco: it was enchanting
    Kit Ciaco: but I never met anyone there
    Wol Euler: ... which is the other big problem for newborns.
    Kit Ciaco: it would be great if there was a sim, a well endowed sim, that really took the newbie thing to heart
    Wol Euler: SL is a huge world, but there are only a small-town's worth of people in it at any time
    Kit Ciaco: when I was new I kept getting sent automatically to some really nasty inner city world
    Kit Ciaco: it was horrible
    Kit Ciaco: filthy mouths, really unfriendly
    Wol Euler nods
    Kit Ciaco: took me a week to figure out how to set some place else as my home
    oO0Oo Resident: me too
    oO0Oo Resident: same
    Kit Ciaco: honestly, it was like a ghetto
    Wol Euler: yeah, that automatic "home" is new-user-UNfriendly
    Wol Euler: never explained how or why it works, or what to do about it
    oO0Oo Resident: and still... we are here :)
    Wol Euler: the lucky ones, or the determined ones :)
    Kit Ciaco: yes - but I'll bet each one of us connected with at least one person right quick like
    Wol Euler: I'm here because I made friends - yes, straight away
    Kit Ciaco: me, too - plus my out of world friend
    Kit Ciaco: that was really elpful to me!
    Kit Ciaco: But alot of sl isn't that intuitive.....
    Kit Ciaco: and yet, once you learn your way around, it's like a pradise!
    Wol Euler looks at the time and sighs. I'm sorry, I am enjoying this greatly, but I have to shower and get ready for work :(
    Wol Euler: please do continue, I'll read the rest when I post the log
    Kit Ciaco: Thanks for your time, Wol!
    Kit Ciaco: I suppose I should "scoot" too
    Wol Euler: it was a great session today, thank you both very much
    Kit Ciaco: get it???
    Kit Ciaco: scoot??????
    Wol Euler: :)
    Kit Ciaco: hahahahahahahahahaha
    oO0Oo Resident: ty Wol , and Kit... Great chat
    Wol Euler: bye for now!
    Kit Ciaco: :)
    Kit Ciaco: have a fun day!
    Wol Euler: well, as far as one can while working!
     

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