2011.01.28 06:00 - Time Session - Playing as if Nothing Were Missing

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Ana Hinchcliffe, Bleu Oleander, Bruce Mowbray, Eliza Madrigal, Jan Qualia, Maxine Walden, Pema Pera, SophiaSharon Larnia and Yakuzza Lethecus.


    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, fantastic... 9 is a lot
    Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Pema.
    Pema Pera: hi everybody!
    Eliza Madrigal: too many more and might need two retreats
    Pema Pera: greeting from N'Orleans
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, all, still rezzing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i won´t be online very much between the 11th and 14th :(
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello pema, max
    Eliza Madrigal: So Pema, how is the retreat going?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine
    Maxine Walden: yes, thinking about y'all in New Orleans...
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Maxine.
    Pema Pera: we're having a great time
    Pema Pera: in many ways
    Maxine Walden: wonderful!! :)
    Pema Pera: from inspiring sessions to inspiring blues bands
    Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bleu
    Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Bleu.
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, the music in NO!!
    Pema Pera: YES, NO !
    Maxine Walden: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Jan :))
    Pema Pera: hi Jan!
    Bruce Mowbray: Yo, Jan.
    Jan Qualia: Hiya all
    Bleu Oleander: hi Jan :)

    Start of Meeting:

    Pema Pera: Shall we get started?
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Pema Pera: For today, the reading was chapters 7, 8, 9, 10
    Pema Pera: and I must say, I enjoyed rereading -- had forgotten most of it by now :)
    Pema Pera: (and really wondering where the writer would go from here on!)
    Maxine Walden: :) interesting, I felt the same...how it slips away from consciousness
    Maxine Walden: ah?
    Pema Pera: u 2 Maxine?
    Maxine Walden: yes, wondering 'where'...
    Maxine Walden: 'where to?'
    Pema Pera: would anyone like to volunteer posting the chat log?
    Jan Qualia: I can't unless I come back as Zen
    Jan Qualia: ?
    Pema Pera: I can claim it Jan
    Pema Pera: and email you the URL
    Jan Qualia: sure
    Pema Pera: will do!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Jan :)
    Pema Pera: thanks J/Z
    Maxine Walden: yes, thanks Jan and Zen
    Jan Qualia: yw
    Pema Pera: any reflections on the four chapters we have just read?
    Jan Qualia: from both of us :)
    Pema Pera: or preflections on chapters to come?

    Jan introduces a theme - 'playing as if nothing is missing':

    Jan Qualia: C 7. "You are playing as if nothing is missing. "
    Jan Qualia: struck me
    Pema Pera: did that give you a handle of sorts?
    Jan Qualia: well - is something missing?
    Jan Qualia: seems I always thought there was
    Jan Qualia: so I'm looking for it
    Pema Pera: independently of whether or not something may be missing, what if you play as if nothing is missing -- how would you do that?
    Pema Pera: where would there be room to play that way, in what kind of way
    Jan Qualia: would I lose motivation?
    Pema Pera: try it!
    Pema Pera: then tell us
    Jan Qualia: what would I do if I didn't search?
    Jan Qualia: life is a kind of search isn't it?
    Pema Pera: tell us, Jan, try it and let us know!
    Pema Pera: there is an apple, why don't you bite in it?
    Jan Qualia: not sure how I do try it
    Pema Pera: how about playing as if you knew
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: jumping into the play and letting us know what happens?
    Jan Qualia: I know I don't know
    Jan Qualia: unknown known
    Pema Pera: what part specifically don't you know
    Pema Pera: what starting point are you missing
    Jan Qualia: sounding like Rumsfeldt
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Maxine Walden: wondering if Jan is feeling on the hot seat
    Jan Qualia: not worried
    Bleu Oleander: it seems like a state of mind that one can enter
    Jan Qualia: maybe I am ...whatever you said

    Knowledge or trust that is needed? What is 'needing'?

    Bruce Mowbray: The "knowledge" that nothing is needed seems to go far beyond "trust" that nothing is needed. . .
    Eliza Madrigal: hot seats are perhaps places of insight
    Bleu Oleander: hot seats are fun :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, listens Bruce...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Bleu
    Bruce Mowbray: Trust requires two entities -- and the concept that one of those can trust the other...
    Bruce Mowbray: to produce or to be something. . . that is trustworthy. . .
    Maxine Walden: unless the hot seat closes down the openness for resting in Being
    Jan Qualia: that's analysing though
    Pema Pera: interesting angle, Bruce!
    Jan Qualia: something else needed
    Bleu Oleander: very true Maxine
    Bruce Mowbray: But if NOTHING is needed. . . then all of it is already perfectly available. . . as presence.
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Perfectly available, really nice Bruce... and if all of it is perfectly available, then...?
    Bruce Mowbray: then nothing is needed.
    Bruce Mowbray: The concept of "needing" is an illusion. . .
    Eliza Madrigal: :) and what does that mean for play?
    Bruce Mowbray: Or -- perhaps if we think we "need" that concept, then it is also perfectly available to us.
    Pema Pera: Yes, Eliza: Jan brought up "playing as nothing missing"
    Pema Pera: Jan, can you see a way in to play that way?
    Pema Pera: first noticing that something DOES seem to be missing
    Bleu Oleander: play = pretend ?
    Pema Pera: than looking for ways as if there may not be?
    Jan Qualia: it gets into the next chapter of dropping roles
    Jan Qualia: or not putting them on rather
    Pema Pera: perhaps, Bleu, as a start . . .
    Bleu Oleander: is there a goal to get behond pretend?
    Pema Pera: but perhaps more like a stage play -- not so much pretend-play but more express-play
    Pema Pera: to feel what it is like to . . . and to express what it is like to . . .
    Bleu Oleander: so become the stage character you are playing?
    Pema Pera: and let's not worry about goals, le'ts just DO it
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe beyond pretend gets us when we're available
    Pema Pera: sure, Bleu, for the sake of the play, during the play -- but you don't have to develop amnesia about you you are, of course, it's just a play
    Jan Qualia: missing is about having
    Jan Qualia: or what we think we should have
    Jan Qualia: ?

    Not thinking and analyzing - playing as if nothing missing:

    Pema Pera: don't think, Jan
    Pema Pera: don't analyze
    Pema Pera: first do it
    Pema Pera: then report
    Pema Pera: then reflect
    Bruce Mowbray: "missing" is about thinking there are walls between us and what we "want" (or "lack") -- There are no walls.
    Jan Qualia: but if you ask questions it makes me think
    Pema Pera: YES
    Pema Pera: (to Bruce)
    Jan Qualia: it's not my faut :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Jan, you can do both, play and think :-)
    Pema Pera: but you have to add a play element and tell us how that feels
    Pema Pera: IMHO :)
    Jan Qualia: I am playing atm
    Jan Qualia: I'm playing as Jan
    Pema Pera: so how does it feel to play as if nothing is missing, Jan?
    Pema Pera: right now?
    Jan Qualia: something is missing - nobody told me I look cute
    Jan Qualia: :)
    Pema Pera: does that really mean that something fundamental is missing?
    Bruce Mowbray feels there is no lack of cuteness in Jan.
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Jan Qualia: shows me I love praise
    Jan Qualia: must feel inadequate
    Bleu Oleander: we need that feedback don't we Jan?
    Jan Qualia: I seem to need it as Jan
    Jan Qualia: strange
    Eliza Madrigal: feedback seems part of playing together.. of giving permission to relax and see things in a more open way
    Bleu Oleander: exactly Eliza :)
    Pema Pera: yes, we very much seem to need it -- which makes it interesting to observe what happens if we play as if we don't need it
    Eliza Madrigal: agreed
    Jan Qualia: I wouldn't bother dressing nicely then
    Pema Pera: but if we argue and analyze that we definitely need it we close the door for play
    Eliza Madrigal: but feedback is fun as well
    Jan Qualia: like Zen :)
    Pema Pera: before we even got started
    Bleu Oleander: wonderful to have a moment when we feel we don't need anything
    Pema Pera: YES!
    Bleu Oleander: like "flying" in sl :)
    Bruce Mowbray wonders if Jan is
    Jan Qualia: 'people who need people are the luckiest people in the world' never understood that line
    Bruce Mowbray: [sy...]
    Bruce Mowbray wonders if Jan is comparing the "needs" of herself with the "needs" of Zen . . . but Pema is encouraging her to Play as if neither once lacks anything.
    Jan Qualia: sorry too
    Bruce Mowbray: neither one*
    Jan Qualia: maybe I need to mature as a woman first?
    Jan Qualia: :)
    Jan Qualia: how silly that sounds :)
    Bleu Oleander: actually, probably the opposite Jan ... become more childlike, open
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "maturity" as coming into the knowledge that nothing is needed.
    Jan Qualia: I'm exploring the young woman role
    Jan Qualia: maybe I have to know it before I can drop it?
    Jan Qualia: or becoming attached to it already?
    Bruce Mowbray: I do not think that "maturing" is a linear process.
    Jan Qualia: not in my case anyway :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I feel that it is more of an acceptance of what was already always here.
    Jan Qualia: linear backwards :)
    Pema Pera: hi Sharon!!!
    Jan Qualia: Hi Sharon :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :))
    Bleu Oleander: hi Sharon
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ssl
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everybody, I dont mean to disturb :D

    The wonder of a child vs adult strategies of hiding:

    Eliza Madrigal: As a child I remember playing in the back yard... everything was there to do whatever came to mind...
    Pema Pera: thanks for joining us, Sharon!
    Eliza Madrigal: that sense of wonder comes close
    Pema Pera: did you feel that nothing was missing, Eliza, something along those lines?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, forest practice in NS was an incident similar.. as an adult...
    Eliza Madrigal: the richness and sense of engagement allowed me to forget or suspend patterns and habits of closing
    Jan Qualia: we can drop past and future as a child
    Jan Qualia: why so hard as adults?
    Eliza Madrigal: we need more permission somehow
    Maxine Walden: maybe we 'wear' our worries and convictions more sturdily as adults
    Eliza Madrigal: we are used to people drawing or needing particular things from us, and usually come to a particular point
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Maxine
    Jan Qualia: maybe we feel more protected as children
    Jan Qualia: feel less safe as adults
    Eliza Madrigal: well, more 'useful' as adults
    Maxine Walden: more doubt as adults so cling to our 'roles' to assuage the doubts?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I think so... for me that seems the case...
    Eliza Madrigal: a role can be a hiding place, too
    Jan Qualia: yes
    Maxine Walden: agree, Eliza
    Jan Qualia: but a way of coping too?
    Eliza Madrigal: seems the same to me
    Eliza Madrigal: comfort/security blanket/hiding place... tucked in....
    Eliza Madrigal: "don't disturb me"
    Jan Qualia: meeting life head on so to speak
    Maxine Walden: maybe we hide by 'coping'
    Jan Qualia: yes Maxine
    Jan Qualia: coping strategies
    Eliza Madrigal: nods... bag of tricks
    Jan Qualia: tyring to work life out in advance
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes so elaborate that we think we are very diverse and free
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fear of being labeled as an inhibitor of being playful, trying to be authentic in ,,how we are" but ,,how we are is a dynamic process" but we play the role of how we are and can´t get out ?
    Jan Qualia: yes - can 'being authentic' become a role?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to say something that differs a bit, as a child felt less safe, but also less aware of the dangers, feel safer as an adult, hiding by coping, maybe as Maxine said
    Pema Pera: /nods to Yaku and Sharon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (oops so sorry bell :) )
    Bleu Oleander: dynamic, fluid, non-static process ... roles interfere with that process in some ways
    Eliza Madrigal: really appreciate the way you said that Ya... how we are as a dynamic proecess
    Jan Qualia: it only struck me on rereading C8 that a role is a detachable thing - I put on a male role every morning
    Eliza Madrigal: as children maybe we don't project 'out' that something (like nature) is different, or 'other' than us
    Pema Pera: and hiding is sometimes necessary, Sharon, but we tend to hide our own hiding for ourselves, and then we can get stuck
    Eliza Madrigal: we aren't using it in the same way
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Pema Pera: Hi Ana, feel free to join us!
    Jan Qualia: that ultimately I am not male seems strange
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Jan Qualia: being doesn't have gender
    Eliza Madrigal: as children we certainly do seem freer to play various roles... thinking of kindergarten classrooms and how every corner is a new 'place' and the roles exist there...
    Pema Pera: Hi Ana!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Ana :)
    Jan Qualia: Hi Ana
    Pema Pera: Ana, we get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://wiki.playasbeing.org/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    Ana Hinchcliffe: hi
    Bleu Oleander: hi Ana
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ana :)
    Ana Hinchcliffe: no. I don't mind
    Pema Pera: thanks!
    Ana Hinchcliffe: Hi

    Stuck in gender roles?

    Jan Qualia: " We all know people who seem solidly stuck in their gender role...."
    Jan Qualia: from C 8
    Bruce Mowbray ponders being stuck in MANY roles, including the so-called "gender" one.
    Jan Qualia: most people seem to be :)
    Jan Qualia: ?
    Bruce Mowbray: "stuck" in age roles, species roles, geographical roles, employment roles, etc.
    Bruce Mowbray: What if it is ALL perfect?
    Bruce Mowbray: nothing missing....
    Jan Qualia: the gender role cuts deep
    Jan Qualia: hard to let go of that one
    Bruce Mowbray: I am 'playing" as the Being that includes all of the "cuts" . . . and I am "seeing" all of that as lacking nothing.
    Eliza Madrigal: (((Bruce))))
    Jan Qualia: sure Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: The entire cosmos is my back yard.
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: after all the cosmos is playing you, Bruce
    Pema Pera: and all of us
    Pema Pera: so we're returning the compliment
    Pema Pera: playing the All in turn
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I am the cosmos, playing that I am Bruce. . .
    Yakuzza Lethecus: But in how far do we play our gender and what ,,is our gender" we can never ,,be another gender even tho that we might partly even play our own. A girl can be a Tomboy even in RL. There is an essence of our gender that we can´t play and can´t feel and playing a different gender often makes we wonder if the truth gets lost entirely because i even wonder about the essence of my own or other ppls genders.
    Jan Qualia: it is partly hormones and suchlike too?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: disconcerting in a biochemical sense, mind separate from body.
    Jan Qualia: you can have a sex change
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "hormones" and "gender genes" as by-standers . . . pretending to be "causes" - - -
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Jan Qualia: the point is though that it isn't as hardwired as we think?
    Pema Pera: how about starting with awareness?
    Ana Hinchcliffe: not sure about the biochemical explanation. If it's true homosexuality would be impossible
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hardwired maybe, but not the software? :D
    Bleu Oleander: awareness of awareness?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i hear you Ana :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, starting (and the end of the session) with awareness.... nice
    Maxine Walden: But the sense of abiding gender inside often is 'imprinted' by the ways we have felt ourselves to be seen and related to by parenting others...so fantasies play a large part in gender
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed Maxine
    Maxine Walden: and hormones 'follow up'
    Pema Pera: our hour is coming to an end, alas . . . we'll continue next week -- though you can stay for Eliza's session of course
    Eliza Madrigal: so we call a lot of things gender that may not be
    Pema Pera: and we can continue the conversation
    Jan Qualia: our parents indoctrinate us into how boys or girls behave
    Maxine Walden: yes, have to go as well...nice conversation
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm about to stop the recording to lead into the next session :)
    Pema Pera: but just for now: next week Friday 6 am we'll have our next Time session
    Ana Hinchcliffe: did you ever visited the Transgender Memorial here at SL?
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Maxine :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye maxine and who´s leaving
    Bruce Mowbray: THANKS everyone. . . Am running off to meditation now. . .

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