2011.02.03 01:00 - Teaching and Music

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.Present were Eggsalad Ormstein (briefly) Kit Ciaco, oo0oo Resident and myself

    Introductions and topic deliberation:

    Kit Ciaco: Hi, Zen
    Zen Arado: Hi Kit:)
    Zen Arado: Hi Eggsalad
    eggsalad Ormstein: hi zen. is there a topic?
    Zen Arado: have you one you'd like to discuss Eggsalad?
    eggsalad Ormstein: no, I usually pop in and join whatever's going on
    Zen Arado: could discuss enlightenment?
    Zen Arado: that's our topic for Ways of Knowing tonight
    Zen Arado: Hi Sam :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Hello Zen, Trevor, eggsalad, Kit and Kaboodle! :)
    Zen Arado: it's a rather difficult topic though
    eggsalad Ormstein: hi sam
    Zen Arado: I don't see Trevor?
    eggsalad Ormstein: he's 300m from here :)
    eggsalad Ormstein: you may want to shout
    Zen Arado: ok :)
    oO0Oo Resident: my fault, sorry
    oO0Oo Resident: near sighted in including the far and near
    Zen Arado: it's good to be inclusive
    oO0Oo Resident: ty , yes Zen
    oO0Oo Resident contemplates symmetry of seating
    Zen Arado: or how about meditation as a topic?
    Kit Ciaco just sits comfortably.....

    About teaching...:

    Zen Arado: I feel as if I am the teacher now and I'm not qualified :)
    Zen Arado: I used to be a training instructor in power stations
    Kit Ciaco: I wonder....
    Zen Arado: but you might not want to hear about how boilers and turbines work :)
    Kit Ciaco: are teachers not really merely fellow travelers?
    Zen Arado: true
    Kit Ciaco: so - we just travel together....
    Kit Ciaco: without barriers?
    oO0Oo Resident: trevor is now at 291 m for those that are interested
    Kit Ciaco: as a college instructor I always learned as much if not more than my students
    Zen Arado: maybe we need some barriers too
    Kit Ciaco: after awhile I simply dismissed most of the tiers
    Zen Arado: yes Kit
    Kit Ciaco: between you and us?
    Zen Arado: and by teaching you learn
    Zen Arado: best way to learn maybe
    Kit Ciaco: and vice verse....
    Kit Ciaco: and a big difference between being taught and learning...
    Zen Arado: though the stuff I taught was pretty straightforward and technical
    Kit Ciaco: one active, the other passive....
    Zen Arado: Socratic dialogue
    Kit Ciaco: much difference between teaching skill sets and other things....
    Zen Arado: what did you teach Kit?
    Kit Ciaco: oh, human service mostly
    Kit Ciaco: sociology
    Kit Ciaco: psychology
    Kit Ciaco: social work
    Kit Ciaco: I also taught in community programs
    Zen Arado: so interesting
    Kit Ciaco: guitar, stress management, codepenency, that sort of thing
    Zen Arado: you don't do that now?
    Kit Ciaco: yes - but not in college
    Zen Arado: ok
    Kit Ciaco: recently retired.....

    Classical guitar:

    Zen Arado: I used to learn classical guitar
    Zen Arado: ah ok
    Kit Ciaco: yes!
    Zen Arado: love the instrument
    Kit Ciaco: me, too
    Kit Ciaco: I've played nearly 40 years
    Kit Ciaco: recently retuned my guitars to diatonic tuning
    Kit Ciaco: VERY cool for playing melodies with ambience
    Zen Arado: I went to a Spanish classical guitarist in Sydney Australia for lessons
    Zen Arado: yes and the tones you get
    Kit Ciaco: LOL - not me - totally self taught, and sitting at the feet of anyone who would let me sit with them
    Zen Arado: and I took it up again at a local music school years later here in N.Ireland
    eggsalad Ormstein: sorry, I'm really lost. Good day.
    Zen Arado: sorry eggsalad
    Zen Arado: hope we aren't boring you too Sam?
    oO0Oo Resident: can I share a favourite classical performance on Youtube with you? 3 min 38 sec?
    oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/0xpvJ3
    Zen Arado: sure Sam
    Zen Arado: I was first entranced by Segovia
    Zen Arado: ah yes nice Sam
    oO0Oo Resident: you got the link Kit?
    oO0Oo Resident smiles at observerm, and notes Trev at 291 m and holding
    Zen Arado: reminds me of another young guy called Sungha Jung
    Zen Arado: though he isn't quite classical
    oO0Oo Resident: brb...;)
    Zen Arado: this is Segovia
    Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8EDpJ-aIM8
    Zen Arado: guitar needs hours of practice though
    Zen Arado: I had to give up because I lost strength in my left hand
    oO0Oo Resident: back, listening Zen
    Zen Arado: wonder what diatonic tuning is?
    Zen Arado: Segovia was the person responsible for making the classical guitar so popular
    Kit Ciaco: diatonic tuning is essentially taking a few notes out of the scale so that all notes played sound good together
    Kit Ciaco: like a dulcimer
    Zen Arado: though it has lost a lot of that since the eighties I think
    Kit Ciaco: or dulcitar
    Kit Ciaco: which I make those....
    Zen Arado: so you retune some of the strings?
    Kit Ciaco: absolutely!!!!!
    Zen Arado: classical guitarists usually only lower the lower E string to G if I remember corectly
    Zen Arado: sometimes
    Kit Ciaco: I have no idea
    Zen Arado: didn't Joni Mitchell play a dulcimer? (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4foLKDlcE)
    Zen Arado: or is that different instrument?
    Kit Ciaco: I'm not a classical guitarist - I just play what feels comfortable to me....
    Kit Ciaco: I'm not sure
    Zen Arado: yes sure
    Kit Ciaco: I don't actually play dulcimer
    Kit Ciaco: I made one once
    Kit Ciaco: but I build and play dulcitars
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm, nice segovia piece Zen
    Zen Arado: some Bach sounds better on classical guitar I think
    Zen Arado: my favourite is the Chaconne from the second violin partita
    Zen Arado: have you heard that?
    Zen Arado: it is quite long though
    oO0Oo Resident: don't think so ~ will be checking for it though
    oO0Oo Resident: I like Bach
    Zen Arado: but so much better if heard live
    Zen Arado: I saw Segovia play a concert in Sydney Town hall
    Zen Arado: absolutely no amplification
    oO0Oo Resident: that's as live as it gets... unplugged they say nowadays

    SL concerts:

    Zen Arado: you could play for us in SL some time Kit?
    Zen Arado: yes Sam:)
    Zen Arado: we can have a Pab concert some time maybe
    Kit Ciaco: I'll be giving a flute concert this Saturday at my dojo!
    Kit Ciaco: 5:30 sl time!
    Zen Arado: great !
    Kit Ciaco: some folks have suggested a Pab concert but I haven't heard anything specific
    Kit Ciaco: I've begun working with another VERY talented in world musician as well, asn we'll be doing some concerts, too
    Kit Ciaco: we're working on an album currently
    Zen Arado: 5.30 pm?
    Zen Arado: a bit late for me :(
    Zen Arado: !.30 am
    oO0Oo Resident: brb... could crash...
    Zen Arado: oh Sam
    Kit Ciaco: sorry.....
    Zen Arado: so many talented people in SL and Pab
    Zen Arado: wonder how you co ordinate the sound?
    Zen Arado: if you are in different locations
    Kit Ciaco: he's going to do it through his gadgetry....
    Kit Ciaco: we did it tonight - awesome stuff!
    Zen Arado: there are music synthesizers and programs online
    Zen Arado: I must try that sometime
    oO0Oo Resident: back ( if tentatively... )
    Zen Arado: wb Sam
    Kit Ciaco: Yes - my partner in crime is up on all of those and will be handling all the tech stuff - I'm just there for my flutes and cute face....
    Zen Arado: maybe we could have a music theme meeting
    Zen Arado: everyone plays something that means a lot to them
    Zen Arado: and even better of they play their own instrument
    Zen Arado: :)
    Kit Ciaco: that would be fascinating!
    Kit Ciaco: do many people have their own instruments in sl?
    Zen Arado: don't know but I suspect there are many
    Zen Arado: Sunshine was talking about playing violin last night
    Zen Arado: you can buy instruments in SL that play tunes
    Kit Ciaco: yes
    Zen Arado: had a friend with a concert grand piano
    Zen Arado: but she played piano in RL
    Kit Ciaco: I prefer making my own.... most of the sl instruments play recorded "canned" music - quite well, some of them - but I like playing my own instruments....
    Zen Arado: yes unfortunately true

    Professionals and amateurs:

    Zen Arado: far better if we can play something even if not as perfect as a great professional
    Zen Arado: we seem to have lost a lot of that
    Zen Arado: so much dependence on recordings
    Kit Ciaco: I wouldn't know a thing about playing professionally - I just play my heart, flawed and ragged....
    Zen Arado: yes of course
    Zen Arado: there's a great tradition of playing music in pubs in Ireland
    Kit Ciaco: I expect there is a place for classical music as well as folk....
    Kit Ciaco: "perfect" and flawed....
    Zen Arado: I like all sorts
    Kit Ciaco: I just like home grown music better - personal taste....
    Zen Arado: though I am not that keen on traditional Irish music :)
    Kit Ciaco: really!
    Kit Ciaco: You don't play the pennywhistle, then?
    Zen Arado: 'diddley di' music we call it :)
    Zen Arado: nope
    oO0Oo Resident: The word 'amateur'comes from a French word meaning: "lover of"
    Zen Arado: yes Sam
    oO0Oo Resident: Trev steady at 291 m
    Zen Arado: the love is the main thing
    Kit Ciaco: I prefer to not distinguish between pro and am
    Zen Arado: :)
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    Kit Ciaco: just take it all for what it is....
    Zen Arado: yes Kit
    Zen Arado: realizing looking back I worried too much about making mistakes when I was playing
    Zen Arado: was too perfectionist
    Kit Ciaco: Mistakes are undervalued in true music
    Kit Ciaco: at any rate - I need to go
    Kit Ciaco: thank you for your time
    Zen Arado: thanks for coming Kit
    Kit Ciaco: see ya!
    Zen Arado: bye
    oO0Oo Resident: tc Kit, nice to see you
    oO0Oo Resident: dependence on recordings... hadn't really thought about that Zen, but it makes sense
    Zen Arado: yes and maybe that makes us too perfectionist
    Zen Arado: music made in huge studios
    Zen Arado: with big consoles to tweak everything
    Zen Arado: we rarely hear live music nowadays
    Zen Arado: you know I have never been to a symphony concert since I came back to Ireland

    Communal music:

    oO0Oo Resident: yes... questions of public commons, and societal structures, depending on where people live, and then also, the growth of IT means many many more people can produce their own stuff
    Zen Arado: public commons?
    oO0Oo Resident: well, shifts away from communal spaces, means less folksy interactions...storytelling, music sharing
    Zen Arado: ah ok
    Zen Arado: and everything organized for us 

    oO0Oo Resident: we become more compartmentalised
    Zen Arado: we have lost that in the North of Ireland I think
    oO0Oo Resident: each with their earphones you know... rather than round the fire singing
    Zen Arado: I had an English friend came to see me last year and he wanted to hear some traditional music
    Zen Arado: I didn't know anywhere to go for that....
    oO0Oo Resident listens
    Zen Arado: I'm sure there are places but not so common now
    Zen Arado: living in the north of Ireland I feel more British than Irish I guess
    oO0Oo Resident: Yes, revivals are happening in places that are less well advertised I suspect
    Zen Arado: yes - if you advertised it too much it would be spoiled
    oO0Oo Resident: thats the paradox
    oO0Oo Resident: mention a special place, or person, or thing, and soon it is overrun

    Painting, creativity and life:

    Zen Arado: painting gives me an outlet for creativity
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: if I had more time and energy....
    oO0Oo Resident: with words, it might look like this quote:
    oO0Oo Resident: Among my most prized possessions are the words that I have never spoken. -- Orson Rega Card
    Zen Arado: good quote Sam
    oO0Oo Resident: painting Zen... wonderful
    Zen Arado: I am in a static place with that atm
    Zen Arado: I got tired of traditional landscapes
    Zen Arado: and am venturing into abstraction
    Zen Arado: again trying to be less interested in selling
    Zen Arado: or being 'professional'
    oO0Oo Resident: thinking of the similarities to the path of life to what you said Zen
    Zen Arado: yes sam
    Zen Arado: the same issues crop up in many areas don't they?
    oO0Oo Resident: somehow the landscape and the abstract together
    Zen Arado: being authentic maybe
    Zen Arado: find semi abstract difficult
    Zen Arado: but maybe false distinctions
    oO0Oo Resident: I may be lucky enough not to understand
    oO0Oo Resident: ;)
    Zen Arado: understanding is overrated I think :)
    Zen Arado: applying this to my meditation practice lately
    Zen Arado: getting away from ideas of self improvement

    Teachers for spiritual practice:

    oO0Oo Resident: Do you have someone to confer with in your practice Zen?
    Zen Arado: I have a teacher but he lives in San Francisco
    Zen Arado: only see him at retreats
    Zen Arado: thogh can get phone sessions sometimes
    Zen Arado: don't like those much
    Zen Arado: do you think teachers are important Sam?
    Zen Arado: you have one?
    oO0Oo Resident: I think they are, and I have had some in my life. At the same time, it feels as though it is a partnership and alignment with ones own inner wisdom, rather than a defering to outer power
    oO0Oo Resident: that a lesson for me too along te way
    Zen Arado: "alignment with ones own inner wisdom"
    Zen Arado: like that Sam
    Zen Arado: you are a teacher
    oO0Oo Resident: more an abstraction, less the landscape kind
    oO0Oo Resident: and a reflection of your own understanding only
    Zen Arado: I feel you have much more experience and insight than me
    Zen Arado: I am groping in the dark with Zen
    Zen Arado: and life

    Working with our storylines:

    oO0Oo Resident: I don't think feel that is or can be true, but we have our storylines to work with, each of us
    oO0Oo Resident: is it depression Zen?
    Zen Arado: yes - the storylines we cling to
    Zen Arado: no
    Zen Arado: I can work with that
    Zen Arado: I don't listen to the stories so much now
    oO0Oo Resident: Pema Chodrons pith advice to retreatants comes to mind
    Zen Arado: we get to know the way the mind affects the body and emotions
    oO0Oo Resident: at least one of the 4 or five statements
    Zen Arado: yes?
    oO0Oo Resident: "don't believe your thoughts"
    Zen Arado: yes
    oO0Oo Resident: it seems strange
    oO0Oo Resident: and counter to survival in a way
    oO0Oo Resident: but... hey
    oO0Oo Resident: it's Pema
    Zen Arado: yes she's great
    oO0Oo Resident: :)))!!!!
    Zen Arado: they say the same things in Zen too
    Zen Arado: just in a different way
    oO0Oo Resident: yes
    oO0Oo Resident: so nice to hear all the ways
    oO0Oo Resident: so helpful
    Zen Arado: reinforces the message
    Zen Arado: I better go
    Zen Arado: nice talking to you again Sam
    Zen Arado: as usual
    oO0Oo Resident: don't forget to "stay" as pema says ;) tc Zen Great to see you again.
    Zen Arado: yes :)
    Zen Arado: might see you later at WoK
    Zen Arado: bye
    oO0Oo Resident: bye! :)))

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