2011.04.03 01:00 - Gymnophobia, or appropriate vs. inappropriate

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    Wol Euler was the guardian for this session. It can be seen as a continuation of the session "Responses to beauty" from November 14 of last year (URL in the text below).


    Wol Euler: hello rhi
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Wol
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi eggs!
    Wol Euler: good morning/evening egg
    eggsalad Ormstein: morning, ladies!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Paloma
    Wol Euler: hello paloma
    Paloma Porta: Wol :)))
    Paloma Porta: ok
    Paloma Porta: power cigarette
    Paloma Porta: brb
    Wol Euler: how is everyone today?


    eggsalad Ormstein: my weekend has just begun. yay!
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Paloma Porta: just made it on time
    Paloma Porta: Nice kimono btw Wol
    Wol Euler: thank you :)
    Wol Euler: I wore it for a theatre visit last night as part of hte birthday celebrations
    Wol Euler: (kabuki theatre)
    Paloma Porta: Oooo
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I thought that was a kimono
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It looks nice
    Wol Euler: ty
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Interesting visual, you wearing that and being framed by two nudes
    Wol Euler: :)
    Paloma Porta: hehe
    Paloma Porta: well this all started as an experiment for me - to test nudophobia
    Wol Euler listens.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But perhaps we should get a man's perspective on that. Egg? What do you think?
    eggsalad Ormstein: I like nudes
    Wol Euler: tell us about the experiment, paloma?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: egg~the question was~what do you think of Wol's being framed by nudes
    Paloma Porta: I got what I expected at first - they complaint that "others would be offended but not me"
    Paloma Porta: sometimes it was hosttile
    Paloma Porta: sometimes there was no comment
    Rhiannon Dragoone: HI Eden
    Paloma Porta: sometimes I was told the most bizarre excuses to cover up
    Paloma Porta: Hi eden
    Paloma Porta: I found "PG" clubs in mature simes
    Eden Haiku: Hello Wol, Rhiannon, Paloma, eggsalad:)
    Wol Euler: hello eden
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Nice wings, Eden
    Paloma Porta: totally fab
    eggsalad Ormstein: hi eden
    Wol Euler: ah, I thought it was an Eshi :)
    Wol Euler: nice
    Eden Haiku: Thanks:) Eshi's :)
    eggsalad Ormstein: ah, a quebecois!
    Paloma Porta: anyone interested in me continuing..its all pretty predictable?
    Eden Haiku: I like your kimono Wol :)
    Wol Euler: please continue, predictable or not :)
    Paloma Porta: well....sometimes I feel like i am putting ppl off what is going on
    Eden Haiku: a quebecois in the middle of the night yes :) Just woke up .
    Paloma Porta: and thats concerned me
    Wol Euler: that may well be true, paloma
    eggsalad Ormstein: I work for a montreal-based company, so I know quite a few quebecois up at this hour :)
    Wol Euler: as would any unusual appearance, a hugely out-of-scale dragon say
    Eden Haiku: Talking about dropping clothes ? :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I've been to Montreal, it's a nice place
    Paloma Porta: yes...but i felt more and more this is how i like to be - and that I have a right perhaps to express myself
    Rhiannon Dragoone: About Paloma's experiencde with gymnophobia
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I do it as a freedom statement
    Paloma Porta: oh is that what its called
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And I've gotten some very nice responses
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, 'gymnos' means naked in Greek
    Paloma Porta: oe of those greek/latin words i bet
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Like one sim I was at, I was at a book reading and the estate manager came by
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Said that the rule was PG out in the open, only nude indoors.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: So she built an enclosure for us, while I was there
    Rhiannon Dragoone: One sim onwer changed her rating from PG to M so I could go to discussions there
    Paloma Porta: I don't have that celebrity status ie I got few skills
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But the most bizaare response I get is that some men think I have to be a guy; no woman would go naked, it seems.
    Wol Euler: an interesting response.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And a lot of gay men seem offended by me.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: One at a discussion insists that my genitalia are disgusting and ugly
    Paloma Porta: I would sum up my experience thus far as "mostly hostile"
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Mine is mixed; now, mostly favorable or indifferent
    eggsalad Ormstein: lol, I'm in the opposite boat. I meet very few hostile to my style
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I got a lot of sexual harassment at first and some people think I must be loose or immoral.
    Eden Haiku: Yes, that would be my intuition too Rhiannon. No woman would go naked :) Are you a woman?
    Paloma Porta: I am surprised at gay men...i found them forgiving
    Paloma Porta: surprised at yr experience i mean
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I'm also considered to be a man because I'm so smart; a lot of guys think I have to be a mann because i'm intelligent
    Wol Euler snorts.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: So you figure it out, Eden. I'm intligent and naked. Must be a guy.
    Wol Euler is convinced!


    Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, and I'd flunk the turing test too, btw.
    Eden Haiku: That wasn't my point Rhiannon...I don,T have a prejudice against women being smart :)
    Paloma Porta: whats that test?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, it's the test for whether or not you are a robot.
    Paloma Porta: ohh
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Eden, what if I were a guy; what's it to you?
    Wol Euler: You get two closed rooms, and put a computer in one and a live human in the other; connect both to a person who can't see them but can communicate by text with both; and see whether teh examiner can spot the computer
    Wol Euler: if the computer passes as human, it has passed the Turing test
    Eden Haiku: I don't mind if you are male or female Rhiannon.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And if the human can't, it fails.
    Wol Euler: right
    Paloma Porta: hehe
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And the judges thought the world's greatest Shakespeare scholar was a robot; no one could know as much as she.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And small talk got you considered human.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: So the lamer the conversation, the more likely you were to be human.
    Wol Euler: a saddening concept
    Paloma Porta: we return to fb !!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Paloma, lol
    Wol Euler: yeah, really
    Wol Euler: I suppose in facebook nobody knows you're naked.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, personally I use the feet test to determine gender here in SL. No woman would be caught dead with linden feet
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Wol, like in space no one can hear you scream?
    Wol Euler: or "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog"
    Eden Haiku: giggles
    eggsalad Ormstein woofs


    I started steering the conversation at this point, hoping to continue and perhaps resolve the discussion that Rhiannon's naked and immobile presence in the middle of the group had caused last November.

    Wol Euler: so paloma, the general reaction to you being naked was hostile, and/but you are still naked. Care to talk about that?
    Paloma Porta: sure
    Paloma Porta: I was trying to establish where the hostility come from
    Eden Haiku: I'm a cat really. My owner is dreaming and I took over her computer
    Wol Euler listens.
    Paloma Porta: i hypothesised...1. its the shock factor...doesnt happen in the other world
    Paloma Porta: 2. christianity based society (?)- naked is sex=wrong
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, some of it is, perhaps; but when it does happen in the other world, you get hostle reactions.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And women have always been controlled by clothing; look at the burka
    Paloma Porta: ya a direct parallel then to be more accurate
    Paloma Porta: yes
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, it's almost exactly what you'd get if you could go clubbing of shopping naked in FL
    Rhiannon Dragoone: The harassment I got at first mirrored the harassment at my FL job
    Paloma Porta: and 3. that old chstnut..male domination....or something.....a female doing something of her own volition ..eeeeek (saracasm)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, they want to be the ones to strip us, not us
    Paloma Porta: mmm
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Paloma Porta: I have wandered in spain n so forth in rl..nude....its ok by the law there - but its not so loved!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And I met this guy my first month in SL; had almost the same reaction as my gf's boyfriend at my club irl
    Rhiannon Dragoone: He was hostile that the whole world got to see me naked and not just him; and he was lusting after me, and I didn't put out; so he eventually banned me from his sim.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But I can come as an identical avatar who does wear clothes.
    Paloma Porta: ya/s'funny when i arrived in sl.....I took off all my clothes..hehe newbie skin - dunno -i guess i am making a statement also
    Wol Euler: what statement is that?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, i did it my first day and was disappointed at the painted on panties and bra
    Wol Euler: heh, when I rezzed back in the old days, we were bare (no painted on underwear) but had no nipples or genitals
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Wol, lol
    Wol Euler: barbie-doll look
    Rhiannon Dragoone: omg
    Wol Euler: (well, perhaps barbie dolls have changed too since my day :)


    Paloma Porta: "Beware your conditioning -nudity is not wrong,not immoral,not anti-social perhaps and your reaction is just yours - don't blame me for it!"
    eggsalad Ormstein: my exwife was a barbie collector. I know way too much about it
    Rhiannon Dragoone: egg, who got custody of the dolls?
    Rhiannon Dragoone puts her hand to her mouth in an 'oops' gesture
    eggsalad Ormstein: she got everything, thankfully. What would I do with 3000+ dolls??
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, let's not go there, eggs
    Eden Haiku: reminds me sleeping in my niece's playroom/guest room
    Eden Haiku: told the little girl in the morning, when she asked
    Eden Haiku: I hadn't sleep well no, cause I played with the Barbies all night long
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Rhiannon Dragoone giggles
    Paloma Porta: ..and i have learned a great personal lesson in this - well a few - but - that i am not responsible for how ppl "trigger" (react irrationally) to something I am doing
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, people are responsible for their own reactions.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: One of the funniest reactions to my being naked was here at PaB; remember, Wol? "A beautiful naked body in a fountain is distracting to philosophical conversation"


    That session was posted as Responses to beauty; though there was a large amount of discussion in IM that obviously didn't get into the log.

    Paloma Porta: It could be argued - that nomatter what one does however extreme the"reicipient" is totally to blame (?) for their reaction
    eggsalad Ormstein: what I have found about rl nudity is that most people who go to places where nudity is permitted are people I do NOT want to see naked
    Wol Euler: I do remember that, rhi
    Rhiannon Dragoone: eggs, they aren't ashamed of their bodies.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And why should they be?
    Wol Euler: and I think it was correct.
    Paloma Porta lloks longingly at the oh so cooool fountain
    eggsalad Ormstein: I did not say they should or should not be ashamed. I said that *I* didn't want to see it
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, as I said then, if it is a problem, I will leave and not come back.
    Eden Haiku: wondering if we can swim in that fountain?
    Wol Euler: rhi, please don't so quick to take offence
    Wol Euler: not everything said to you is an insult
    Paloma Porta: mmmmm swimm...fountain...yummm
    Wol Euler: we talked about this at length, and I thought we agreed
    Wol Euler: the problem wasn't you being naked, you are here and naked now
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Not taking offense, but if the facilitator thinks that I'm distracting to the group, then I should leave.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, it was my standing.
    Wol Euler: the problem was that you were stood directly in front of somebody ... right
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And that's why I try not to come when i'm on my text client
    Wol Euler: there is a diference!
    Eden Haiku: Ah no, we just walk on the water...
    Wol Euler: context exists.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But they wouldn't have complained if you or egg was in that situaion, even though true, they knew you
    Wol Euler: yes, they would.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It was standing naked in front of them.
    Wol Euler: well, that is not true. It happens all the time
    Rhiannon Dragoone: That is what they said, Wol
    Wol Euler: if you hang around larger groups you'll often see that newcomers rez in front of somebody who's arlready sitting
    Wol Euler: it inevitably happens that the sitter asks the newcomer to move
    Wol Euler: that is natural and human
    Rhiannon Dragoone: True enough; I was once ejected from a discussion because my controls were too laggy and I couldn't move fast enough
    Wol Euler: (not true that they would not have complained about me or egg, I meant)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I knew what you meant
    Paloma Porta: this is the next thing - sometimes nudity can be sexual - and inappropriate....close proximity does cause issues along with filthy dialog when naked.
    Wol Euler: right, and that is where "appropriate" comes in
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But there were complaints that I was standing ~naked~ in the fountain
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, close proximity in SL does have the same effect as in FL
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And not sitting can be an issue, esp. for immersives
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi observem!
    Wol Euler: hello mini-obs :)
    Wol Euler: you're late today
    observerm Resident: hello
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But he's here and that's the important thing.
    Eden Haiku: Hello observerm...
    Paloma Porta: Ya naked in the fountain -not knowing yr on a text client looks like griefing perhaps .....hazing...or derision of proceedings?
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: exactly.
    Eden Haiku: Who is he? Is his cover known?
    Wol Euler: not by me :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, but one person refused to believe I couldn't move or sit. Told me to blindly touch things until I could. So it was a handicap issue to.
    Eden Haiku: had the feeling some people knew :)
    Wol Euler: maybe :)
    Paloma Porta: "Sense of humour failure" a common UK explain-all!!!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I learned that sitting is very important that day.
    Eden Haiku: Well, 4.44 here, I better go back to sleep. Nice being with you all. Bye for now.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Nite, Eden
    Wol Euler: goodnight eden, I hope you get back to sleep
    Paloma Porta: BY Eden :))
    eggsalad Ormstein: nice meeting you, Eden. Bonne fin de semaine!
    Paloma Porta: poof


    I try to guide the conversation away from personal wishes, towards social context. I was frankly curious to see what weight, if any, might be assigned to other people's wishes.

    Wol Euler: I find it interesting that concepts like "appropriate" or "inappropriate" haven't come up in the discussion, neither here nor in previous discussions
    Paloma Porta: and happy weekend..lol
    Paloma Porta: ahaa...Decency - the divine definition....is the highest motivation??
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, they are euphemisms for conformity. At one sim, one of the admins said she didn't think nudity was sexual--she wasn't a prude, after all, it just wasn't "normal" to be naked in public


    Wol Euler: so you are both saying that "inappropriate" doesn't exist?
    Wol Euler: that your wanting to do something makes it good and acceptable and proper?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But inappropriate is when? I was told by someone, who showered me with clothes, that it was inappropriate at a coffee shop, even though the owner and the group were fine with it. Is that inappropriate?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Is it inappropriate to hold a lecture naked?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Is it inappropriate simply because everyone else is clothed?
    Paloma Porta: Its all judgment - and judgement comes from viewpoint . Inappropraite and app' are buried deep in beleef systems of the individual - methinks
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, you shouldn't go to a black tie affair naked. but one couple were celebrating the 3rd anniversry of their SL partnership; it was a formal affair, but they were fine with me being naked there.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Everyone else was in gowns or suits
    Wol Euler: why not, rhi? if there is no context but your own desire, why not go naked there too?
    Paloma Porta: Decency ? Its a nice benchmark
    Wol Euler: I think it's a recognition that we are not alone in the world
    Paloma Porta: That isn't fully established !!! lol....
    Wol Euler: and that others' comfort and happiness are *perhaps* also of value
    Rhiannon Dragoone: So we let others dictate our appearance?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It is inappropriate not to wear a burka, if you're a woman.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It is our recognition of our relationship with our brothers and to God
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It is inappropriate for a woman to speak before spoken to.
    Paloma Porta: Personally i feel the mind has no answers for inappropriate -one must feel - which is possibly metaphysics etc
    Paloma Porta: I was at a meeting today naked - suddenly i felt it was inapproriate fron the view of OTHERS..hehehe,,so i had to make a decision....
    Wol Euler listens.
    Paloma Porta: which was....to remain. I felt they were learning !!!
    Paloma Porta: notice
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Which meeting was that?
    Paloma Porta: it was all my feelings - what else can we go on reliably?
    eggsalad Ormstein: I own one male outfit, for people or places where *I* feel inappropriate
    Paloma Porta: an OSHO Island event
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, and inappropriate is based on who you are too. I went to one meeting and was told, at first, to put some clothes on and sit. But then they recognized that I was the one who helped them advertise their events, and it became, please join the group and sit down.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Again, sitting...
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Why is standing naked worse than sitting naked?
    Paloma Porta: I also feel we naked types should push thruogh these barriers of objections - with love - especially when we feel certain the objections are not "healthy"
    Wol Euler: I'm sure you can work it out if you think about it :)
    eggsalad Ormstein: these are questions I can not answer. good night!
    Wol Euler: 'night egg, take care
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, eggs, nite, nite
    Wol Euler: enjoy the weekend
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, I guess i can see why naked standing; esp. in sl; you looked posed
    Paloma Porta: wel standing - all the bits are there on dispolay..its MORE naked ....lol
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Especially if you're in the center of the room. And that suddenly makes you a sex object
    Wol Euler: right
    Wol Euler: you aren't here when you aren't here, so you don't know how our conversations usually run, but your presence does change the conversation
    Wol Euler: [redacted] makes lots of silly sexual jokes, for example
    Paloma Porta: her naked presence or her interlectual fame??
    Wol Euler: which he doesn't do when you aren't here
    Wol Euler: naked presence
    Wol Euler: and yes, I know that doing so is his decision
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, I'm sure that is so, Wol
    Wol Euler: and yes I know you aren't repsonsible for his decision
    Wol Euler: but the fact remains that you triggered it.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, and I've triggered harassment in men who might not be rude otherwise.
    Wol Euler nods
    Paloma Porta: I don't i carry the naked weight Rhi does however ?
    Wol Euler: you haven't been here in that situation before
    Wol Euler: try standing immobile directly in front of someone with your bits facing the group
    Wol Euler: and see how much weight you acquire
    Wol Euler: sitting DOES make a difference
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, i can see that, actually Wol. And that's why I try not to come when i'm on my phone or text client
    Wol Euler: it's appreciated, rhi :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Also, at Miralee's; she objects to standing, even if clothed.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Paloma Porta: i think so - a naked woman standing is gonna atract attention more than sitting..theres more surface area to view..scientifiumaically
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And if I do want to come, and know i'll be on my gtext client, I see if I can, earlier, position myself behind tghe column


    Rhiannon Dragoone: I was once asked why I was hiding behind tghe column and I told that person it was because I was naked and the group might object to my standing in plain sight.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: She thought it was funny
    Wol Euler: I suppose it depends on the weight you assign to other people's comfort, and I recognize that perhaps I put too much weight on that
    Paloma Porta: I have censor bars which ARE a statement
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I've worn them too, Paloma
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, I do assign weight to other people's comfort, Wol; don't make us out to be insensitive in asserting a life style choice.
    Paloma Porta: i did it when returning to the "PG" club on the mature sim - the dancers /public were in fits of laughter -which is something i rarely have the ability to spawn!!!!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And I understand Maxine's attitude
    Wol Euler: you understand it, but it would never cross your mind to put on clothes because of it?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Paloma, lol. But I'm surprised you weren't banned
    Paloma Porta: I am too sneeky to be banned - I play things with care
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I did say ii would leave if people were uncomfortable with me; and that one guy said 'bye' That was again because I couldn't sit
    Wol Euler: rhi, this isn't about banning you. that was never the point
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Never said it was; I was responding to Paloma's going in censor bars; some sim owners ban if they they you're dis ing them.
    Wol Euler: ok, I crossed two lines of convesation. sorry.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: it's ok
    Paloma Porta: Rhi one cannot expect decent god fearing citisens to sit happily chatting with a vagina in their face - hehehe its just too much - all the fuses pop!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: My pointis Fritz Pearl's: "I am not here to live up to your expectations, nor you to live up to mine. If we meet, it is wonderful; if not, it can't be helped." So no, I won't cover up if someone objects to my being naked; I'll just leave and find someplace else to share my thoughts.
    Paloma Porta: I was in tight IM with the club owner...like i said i am perhaps loving first - i seek no hostility
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, I always talk to the club owner and leave if they let me know there's a problem.
    Paloma Porta: This is the whole thing - what bloody problem is it exactly ?????????
    Rhiannon Dragoone: it shouldn't be, Paloma, I agree
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But I'm responding to Wol's point--about considering other people's comfort
    Paloma Porta: you know..what happened to came into this world and all that??
    Rhiannon Dragoone: She thinks I should put clothes on; I think I should just leave; that way, everyone has her life style choices respected.
    Wol Euler: I don't think you should put clohtes on
    Wol Euler: I don'T recall having said that


    My mistake, reading this carefully it's clear that Rhiannon was talking about Maxine. Sorry, Rhi.

    Paloma Porta: Wol dosn t want us yo cover up.she would say..she is most forthright i feel
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, you said shouldn't I consider putting clotghes onn if it makes others, like Maxine, uncomfortable.
    Wol Euler: emphasis on the word "consider". Would that ever cross your mind as a possible solution to their discomfort?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It would, and my solution, as I said, is to leave; so they can have their comfort and I can have my life style choice. Ii don't need to share my thoughts in a group which is uncomfortable with my presence and I don't need their looking down on me.
    Paloma Porta: the brits are to blame here...isnt this the subjunctive mood ? or something...which we use as the imperative.....eg....May i suggest you do this? is british and polite american for "Do this..."
    Wol Euler: I'm fascinated, really.
    Wol Euler: I go naked too, hard as that might be to believe :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: No!? you, Wol. I don't believe it
    Paloma Porta: Yes you said to me you did
    Paloma Porta: er
    Paloma Porta: er
    Paloma Porta: maybe you would join us ?
    Wol Euler: phone
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, especially since the guys are all gone.


    Paloma Porta: well the experiment continues...roving reporter Porta
    Wol Euler: back
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, welcome back.
    Paloma Porta: Welcome back
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I left you a message in IM in case I was gone when you returned.
    Wol Euler: what I was going to say is that although I am often naked, and enjoy being naked, I don'T do it here
    Wol Euler: because *I* would find that inappropriate
    Paloma Porta: sensible
    Wol Euler: the discomfort of others would make me uncomfortable, and unlike Rhi I'd rather put on clothes than leave
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, it also depends on your personal context
    Paloma Porta: ya
    Wol Euler: when I'm naked it is for pleasure, not as a political gesture
    Paloma Porta: well i started in places that we empty of course -to get the feel of it...its a funny business!!!
    Wol Euler nods.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I was a sim admin and was talking to the estate manager; we were off somewhere nakde, and she put her clothes on to go to the Commons. She said, she didn't want to be seen naked. because of her reputation. I said, 'well, so you're saying that it's not appropriate for you to be naked but it is for me?' And she replied, 'people expect you to be naked, Rhiainnon. But not me.'
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And it's true; I can't put clothes on at my discussions, people would object to it.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Paloma Porta: hahahah..quite a reversal
    Rhiannon Dragoone: So I have to be naked, Wol; I have a reputation to uphold.
    Paloma Porta: I got that once at osho 2 years ago
    Paloma Porta: why are you not naked -you look soooo "natural"
    Wol Euler: :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Paloma, yeah, I found it funny; and ironic--my freedom statement is now confining in a way.
    Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Some people who come here who know me would be shocked if i had clotghes on
    Rhiannon Dragoone: They'd think I was personally compromised
    Wol Euler: or being generous
    Wol Euler: which is how I see it.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, some would.
    Paloma Porta: Welllll Rhi to be perhaps consistent - do as you see fit - upset them"" i don't mean that..i mean...continue as you wish
    Rhiannon Dragoone laughs
    Rhiannon Dragoone: you guys are the best
    Paloma Porta: perhaps a clothed meeting...see what happens??
    Wol Euler: :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: And I will see you both later; and, yes, I will be naked.
    Wol Euler: bye for now, rhi.
    Paloma Porta: huggs Rhi
    Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs
    Paloma Porta: well there goes the brains of the outfit...lol
    Wol Euler: heh
    Paloma Porta: I am concernd with the hostility still - its just not my style....hence the pink hair and attempt to look harmless
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: and the smile AO :)
    Paloma Porta: hehehe
    Paloma Porta: ya..its quite nice i think
    Paloma Porta: i reworked my shapes to smile when i can with changing skins
    Paloma Porta: its just me - not a front
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: SL raises all kinds of really interesting questions about identity and character
    Wol Euler: and where these reside
    Wol Euler: until SL, I thought that my body was "me"
    Paloma Porta: ...and the heels are a new thing...they may be a bit too sexy....but i love heels....formerly i was "skyclad"
    Wol Euler: no such thing as "too sexy heels" :)
    Wol Euler: I like the revolving gears
    Paloma Porta: hehe ya
    Wol Euler: have a look at the boots at Eshi Otawara's shop, you might like them
    Paloma Porta: spiriuality..sheesh I am not my body - you should know - i feel completely separate from it.
    Wol Euler: there are some by Eshi herself, and others by Mrs Schmidt which are more your taste I think
    Paloma Porta: oooo
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Paloma Porta: Thanks 4 LM
    Paloma Porta: :))
    Wol Euler: yw


    Paloma Porta: well i feel we have concluded a nice chapter for yr transscripts?
    Wol Euler: yep :)
    Wol Euler: it was an interesting discussion, and I'm glad we had it
    Wol Euler: I too have to go, that phonecall was the boss summoning me to work
    Paloma Porta: Thank you soooo much - its a wonderful thing...a drama free discussion with thinkers and clever peeps
    Wol Euler smiles
    Paloma Porta: np
    Wol Euler: we try to be drama free
    Paloma Porta: havva quick zoom in on the heels
    Wol Euler: we try to disagree without condemning
    Wol Euler: which is something foreign to philosophers :)
    Paloma Porta: coommunication is an art
    Wol Euler: and not a contest.
    Paloma Porta: indeed
    Wol Euler: great shoes :)
    Paloma Porta: ya grim brothers
    Wol Euler: I like Rhi, but she is so touchy, so quick to be offended by the slightest unclarity
    Paloma Porta: ya she faces a lot of stuff daily remember -it must be a challenge for her to even recognise a nice friendly warm response sometimes!!
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: anyway, I must go.
    Paloma Porta: yup
    Wol Euler: take care, paloma, see you around
    Paloma Porta: love you
    Paloma Porta: see soon
    Wol Euler: bye obs, enjoy your sunday
    Paloma Porta: ty
    Paloma Porta: go
    Paloma Porta: huggies

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    What a fantastic session... really plays with hidden reference points. :))
    Posted 07:50, 3 Apr 2011
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