2011.04.17 08:00 - Guardian Session: Knowing What We Know, and Don't Know

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    Ten were present for this week's Guardian Session: : Adams Rubble : Agatha Macbeth : Aphrodite Macbain : Bruce Mowbray : Eliza Madrigal : Eos Amaterasu : Lucinda Lavender : Stevenia Michinaga: Xirana Oximoxi : Yakuzza Lethecus . We discussed forming 'official policy' on underage avatars at PlayasBeing sessions, Donations, Chronicles, Today's Art History workshop, & Scene-crashing griefers. Then some of us honed our ejecting skills. (Eliza posted this session)


    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steve and Hello everyone, thanks for the teleports
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): have a good brunch
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye Steve:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: welcome Eliza
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): That was one LOOOOOOOOng walk
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): wb Eliza:)
    Eliza Madrigal: eek
    Adams Rubble: wb Eliza
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): You went for miles :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Ag, moonwalking all the while!
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I will not try moving from this cushion...
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe it was the boots!
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): : DDDDDDDDDDD
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) nods. Stay grounded....
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): And one of these days....
    Aphrodite Macbain: ouch
    Eos Amaterasu: da da dum, da da dum, da da dum dum dum dum dum
    Eliza Madrigal: they are made for walking afterall...
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hold on to aggers
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) holds on to you
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't see my text, hope I manage to stay... need an anchor
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Snap
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Nice to see everyone
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Finally :p
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): nice to see all of you too:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Finally
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Hello Luci
    Aphrodite Macbain: lovely luci
    Adams Rubble: Hello Lucinda
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hi Luci:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci :)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Well, it's Sunday
    Lucinda Lavender: :) HI everyone:)

    Eliza Madrigal: Five of us present were at the Working Group meeting, where we discussed the 'underage' issue... I wonder if we have more to consider there, if anyone would like to?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm still unclear what rules we aaare absolutely bound by and which rules can be adapted to our needs
    Lucinda Lavender: sorry to be late..
    Eliza Madrigal: No worries Luci :)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) smiles @ Luci

    Eliza Madrigal: Well, being a mature sim, my understanding is that if we *know* someone is underage, we are bound to ask them to leave
    Eliza Madrigal: however it is rare that we would *know*
    Eliza Madrigal: there is no way to screen through a profile, etc
    Aphrodite Macbain: that is the loophole?
    Eliza Madrigal: it seems to be the case

    Aphrodite Macbain: we can always plead ignorance?
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): The ignorance would usually be genuine :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: But if we DO know, it would be ethical to ask them to leave
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): The alternative is that we ask all newcomers their age
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): (and they could easily lie of course)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, Aphrodite
    Lucinda Lavender: when a visitor says they are contemplating telling their age that right there was a hint for me...
    Aphrodite Macbain: we need to show we are doing due diligence
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Yes Luci

    Eliza Madrigal: yes, In the case that we find out later, as in the one that brought this issue up, we need to make sure not to post the person's comments in the log
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Right
    Eliza Madrigal: as that is another 'layer' of the issue
    Lucinda Lavender: what does due dilligence mean...?
    Eliza Madrigal: that we've done all we 'can' do
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Yes, it's a legal term
    Aphrodite Macbain: doing everything we can to follow the law
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...
    Eliza Madrigal: to prepare
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: in acting terms, on would 'learn their lines' before they hit the stage

    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I think the only way to now if someone is 'mature' is with age verification... but I wouldn't worry a lot beeing in PaB, as I think all I've heard and seen here is nothing wrong for a younger

    Aphrodite Macbain: I like the idea of adding it to the notecard we hand out to newcomers. That way, they are forewarned

    Eos Amaterasu: Isn'tIt's pretty straighforward to me: if someone discloses, or we find out, they are underage or otherwise not kosher, we follow what rules/procedures (eg. pls leave)
    Eos Amaterasu: that's all

    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Agreed Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, both
    Eliza Madrigal: there is no harm in writing a line into the notecard
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): To be honest Eos, that's about all we can do
    Aphrodite Macbain: how can we add that extra text?
    Eliza Madrigal: and it shows an extra attentiveness
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it's a good idea to add it in the notecard
    Aphrodite Macbain: who would be willing to do that?
    Eliza Madrigal: we can play with wording in w/g emails I'd think...
    Eliza Madrigal: try to make it precise?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: shouldn't be hard
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): It ought to be precise as possible, yes
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): To avoid ambiguity

                  ... some things lurking in the details...

    Eos Amaterasu: let's not make toooooo much of a deal of this
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm really impressed with the concern of the group though
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Yes, we only *know* of one case thus far
    Aphrodite Macbain: another sentence: those under the age of 18 are not allowed to participate in these discussions"
    Eos Amaterasu: why?
    Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm sounds harsh
    Eos Amaterasu: can between 16 and 18 age person be present here"
    Eos Amaterasu: ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I thought Linden's limit was 18
    Eliza Madrigal: my understanding is that under 18 cannot consent to be recorded
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): M rating means over 16 years of age.

    Eos Amaterasu: is that US law? Florida law? Linden law?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): but consent it also a "?"
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Under-18s cannot legally consent to anything

    Eliza Madrigal: yes... the crux of the confusion is there
    Aphrodite Macbain: so there is a distinction between being recorded and attending?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Linden law is under 17.
    Eos Amaterasu: so how did they sign up for SL?
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Presumably, they lied ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: 16, 17,18???
    Eliza Madrigal: I should mention that Wol is following up on this to gain specifics
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: thank heavens
    Eos Amaterasu: How about we just leave it to Wol....
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): We deinitely need more specifics -- from the Lindens themselves.
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I'd second that
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yes.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, but it was worth a discussion. thanks Eliza
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) nods

    Eliza Madrigal: Think it is important to just keep everyone as updated as possible
    Eliza Madrigal: even if just to say 'ongoing'
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Yes
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I am listening...and thinking
    Aphrodite Macbain nods
    Eos Amaterasu: including observm
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, especially obserrvm
    Lucinda Lavender: who is observerm
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Ah, but he never speaks :p
    Eliza Madrigal: as you said, without obs we may not exist
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): (who is at present 58 meters away).
    Eos Amaterasu: observm is listening right now
    Lucinda Lavender: I have seen of course and always wondered
    Eliza Madrigal: (@Eos)

    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): well, i asked him once if he´s doing research and he told me only that he´s doing it privately
    Lucinda Lavender: ah..hi to observerm:)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): He can't listen if he's 58m away :p
    Eliza Madrigal: many are doing research projects in SL :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: observu
    Eos Amaterasu: observm does not show up in mini map
    Eos Amaterasu: tho visible in radar
    Eos Amaterasu does not liike that
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): he´s on my minimap
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Has to be within 20m for chat to register I think
    Aphrodite Macbain: wonder if h/se records statements from underagers
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Let's ask him :)
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): exactly
    Aphrodite Macbain shouts: do you
    Aphrodite Macbain shouts: ???
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Calm down Aph...
    Eliza Madrigal looking for hay in a needlestack...
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Indeed
    Aphrodite Macbain: had to shout. wouldn't have heard me otherwise
    Eliza Madrigal: (spongebob reference)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I can see observem in my mini map

    Eliza Madrigal: :)) OK, well I wonder since we have Adams and Ag here if there might be anything to report on Chronicles? Nice to have to liasons in the working group this round
    Eliza Madrigal: *two=to
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I don't think a shout carries more than 40m actually
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): (I should know these things)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: why?
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Because i should
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Adams Rubble: We are still Chronicling but some of us are busy with some other projects right now :)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) sighs
    Adams Rubble: May I insert a plug here?
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice that there is a Chronicles "group"
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Yes Adams, just putting the first of my stuff up now
    Eliza Madrigal: yes please Adams
    Aphrodite Macbain: plug away
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I've read about the tour at Native sims... sounded really interesting:)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I haven't forgotten, honest
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Ah yes, that looks good
    Aphrodite Macbain: tour of what?
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): At the Museum Aph
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): Adams has writen in emal about a historical guided tour at native sims in SL

    Adams Rubble: The Art History workshop today at 12 noon will visit Virtual Lands, a Native American sim today and here from Nany Kayu who also is doing a project for the Smithsoian Museum of the American Indian
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh wonderful
    Adams Rubble: from there we will go to see the work of a Navajo artist named Joe Yazzie who is installing a gallery at a place called red Rock
    Adams Rubble: should be an interesting hour
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Adams Rubble: thanks for allowing me to make the plug :)
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds great
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, interesting:)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Plug away :)
    Adams Rubble: hope some of you may be able to come :)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I'll be there
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): maybe even bringing some friends :)
    Adams Rubble: we will meet at the museum at 12
    Aphrodite Macbain: kk
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Right
    Adams Rubble: friends are very welcome
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) will be right back.
    Eliza Madrigal: OK

    Adams Rubble: enemies will be welcome too as long as there is no fighting (giggles)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I'll try to come too:) family here.. but tell them to have dinner earlier:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: we can practice loving our enemies
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: then that will be part of the workshop
    Aphrodite Macbain grins
    Adams Rubble: the art of loving
    Eliza Madrigal: lots to learn from the Native Americans there
    Aphrodite Macbain: always

    Aphrodite Macbain: Anything else on the agenda?
    Eliza Madrigal: Not officially, no :)
                      Of A and B, B was on the working group agenda, so we begin with B...

    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I hear we had a full-blown griefer the other morning/

    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): didn´t wanted aph mention the financial issues again ?

    Eliza Madrigal: but that leaves room for anything & everything
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Oh yes Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: only that we now have a donation "box" at the pavilion that storm installed
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Ah, is it up?
    Eliza Madrigal: which allows for lindens to be given?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: and yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: works well
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Excellent
    Aphrodite Macbain: we must raise $800
    Aphrodite Macbain: and we are encouraging poeple to give a regular monthy donation
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you know offhand how short we fall? I think not very at this point...
    Aphrodite Macbain: something small but continuous
    Eliza Madrigal: which is wonderful
    Aphrodite Macbain: there is a little more than $500 there right now
    Eliza Madrigal: and with the box, even wanderers-by can contribute now

    Aphrodite Macbain: It might be useful if the Guardian OC points this out
    Eos Amaterasu: 500 Linden?
    Eos Amaterasu: for Q2, Apr - June, we've raised $212.40
    Eos Amaterasu: USD
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): And how much do we need?
    Eos Amaterasu: $800
    Eliza Madrigal: I think we're around $300 more per quarter to meet the aim ...
    Eos Amaterasu: really should be $900 :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I believe $500+ was the amount we raised in the last quarter
    Eliza Madrigal: when factoring now ongoing paypal donations
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: so, really close :))

    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone (and speaks out of the log, heh)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what's it like speaking out of a log?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Sounds a bit wooden...
    Eos Amaterasu rubs his eyes
    Aphrodite Macbain: hollow
    Eliza Madrigal: like the lorax, speaks for the trees

                       Back to A...

    Eliza Madrigal: And yes, Agatha, terrible griefer during Wednesday's session!
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Mmm, I heard
    Eliza Madrigal: I've yet to file a report, but will do so
    Aphrodite Macbain hands Eos some eye drops
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Luckily we don't see too many round here
    Eos Amaterasu is now paranoid around 1-day olds....
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): what happened?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and certainly not one capable of ejecting us

    Eliza Madrigal: Xirana, an av with a horrible name
    Eliza Madrigal: came to the session making burping noises... in voice...
    Eliza Madrigal: that wasn't a big deal... but I said to them...
    Aphrodite Macbain: probably underage
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahhhh :(
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I remember one named Filthy Cardboard
    Eliza Madrigal: that they were welcome to say unless they were just here to disrupt...
    Eliza Madrigal: but he sort of made an 'oh is that so', comment, mocking me...
    Eos Amaterasu: thinks, be like Galadriel....
    Eliza Madrigal: and I went to click him as he began to play ruder things and music...
    Aphrodite Macbain: hard not to get one's buttons pressed

    Eliza Madrigal: and he put up a shield
    Eliza Madrigal: and then we were all booted
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): A shield?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): very long ago we have had some problems in German Chat... and I think there's the possibility to mute this person
    Eliza Madrigal: I couldn't do it fast enough
    Eliza Madrigal: the shield came immediately
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): omg
    Aphrodite Macbain: you were all booted out???
    Eliza Madrigal: and then everyone was knocked off yes
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): yes
    Lucinda Lavender: Luci needs to practise the ejecting...
    Eliza Madrigal: and it wasn't normal
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): terrible... it was a kind of hacker then
    Eliza Madrigal: yes seems so
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ther s/b some override when that happens
    Eliza Madrigal: I've never had this

    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): well, storm mentioned that it could partly be because the sim is running at maximum
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, a way to crash the system
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): and the griefer put it over the edge
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah

    Eliza Madrigal: Luci, yes want to eject someone today?
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Lucinda Lavender: sure...
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd offer myself but I have the log
    Eos Amaterasu: that's right, rez a megaprims....
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hope noooo :)))
    Eos Amaterasu: (there's that log again)
    Eliza Madrigal offers herself to tiger ejecters.. hahahahah

    Aphrodite Macbain: feel free to eject me. I wont get hurt!

    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Shame boxy isn't here, he could give us the tech side side of it...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) You are brave Aph

    Lucinda Lavender: forget how since have not done it in oh so long...
    Aphrodite Macbain: just as long as I can get back

    Eos Amaterasu: I've run into people who could crash the scene once or twice before....
    Eliza Madrigal: You are on viewer 2...so someone with viewer 2 should give direction
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes! here there are clever people to know what to do in this case..it's a luck!!!
    Eliza Madrigal: you have Eos?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) X, yes
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, I'm sure there are ways to poke into parts of the system to bring it down
    Eos Amaterasu: just like with web sites
    Eliza Madrigal: it really seemed the case here

    Adams Rubble: Did you report it to the lindens, Eliza?
    Eos Amaterasu: people who know tricks like that let that go to their head
    Aphrodite Macbain: smart little vicious hackers
    Eliza Madrigal: am going to, wanted to talk to storm first, which I did
    Eos Amaterasu: script kiddies
    Lucinda Lavender: in viewer 2 there are the choices of reporting, blocking with a right click
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Shame they can't put their intelligence to more constructive use

    Eliza Madrigal: the time when Eos and I had griefers before it was like being wonder woman... hehe, ejecting is fun
    Lucinda Lavender: ah found eject!
    Adams Rubble: since we are in the Mieum sim, you probably do not have permission to eject here
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Eliza Madrigal: OH!
    Eos Amaterasu: If you are a guardian you do
    Eliza Madrigal: what a good point, though Luci found it
    Lucinda Lavender: good to know
    Eliza Madrigal: so let's see
    Adams Rubble: in Mieum?
    Eliza Madrigal: here now
    Eliza Madrigal: if she doesn't have permission it won't work
    Lucinda Lavender: well after the meeting I can go practise somewhere else
    Eos Amaterasu: I'm in Bieup 1, 50, 103
    Adams Rubble: ahh, I am in Mieum
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: wonder what "freeze" does
    Lucinda Lavender: I am in Bieup
    Adams Rubble: 255,45, 103
    Eliza Madrigal: different permissions in different spots
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): The hall is split between 2 sims remember

    Lucinda Lavender: Aph where are you?
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Adams Rubble dares Lucinda to try (hehe)
    Aphrodite Macbain: 2,45,103
    Eos Amaterasu waves
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Lucinda Lavender: :)))
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): One moment while i eject a wasp
    Eliza Madrigal: wow
    Eliza Madrigal: just like that
    Aphrodite Macbain: you did it!
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): That's it
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm now hovering over a crevass
    Eliza Madrigal: very skilful Luci
    Eliza Madrigal: WB Aph
    Lucinda Lavender: well I am feeling capable:)
    Eos Amaterasu: but you stayed in chat range?
    Aphrodite Macbain: back!
    Lucinda Lavender: for the moment:)

    Eliza Madrigal: Xirana, you are already familiar with ejecting?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): no, not at all:)
    Eos Amaterasu: thought that was an advanced tantric practice
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes interesting that I could talk to you
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, so would you like to choose a victim?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: choose me!
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Eos Amaterasu: although not ejecting _other_ people
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): but I only see the option to'block' someone

    Aphrodite Macbain: you want me to eject you Luci?
    Eos Amaterasu: you have to be wearing your guardian group label
    Lucinda Lavender: sure
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal: be sure to talk, Luci... that way we can see about the chat range issue
    Eos Amaterasu watches Luci - whups!
    Aphrodite Macbain: there
    Eos Amaterasu: you hoo!
    Aphrodite Macbain: hlooo
    Eliza Madrigal: Xirana, when you choose 'more' on the pie menu, what happens?
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): Woooohuuuuu
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Bye Luci
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh dear

    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): where is the 'pie menu?? hehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: I dodn't ban her, only ejected her
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, wait... viewer 2
    Eos Amaterasu: oh oh, we'll all get arrested!
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, viewer 2
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I just ate it :p
    Eliza Madrigal: in phoenix there is a pie menu...
    Aphrodite Macbain: no pies in Viewer 2
    Eliza Madrigal: Aph, where is eject in viewer 2?

    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok.. np... I hope I never have to eject anyone:)
    Eliza Madrigal: playing as jailbirds
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Me too
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh its fun
    Eliza Madrigal: and good to know
    Eliza Madrigal: but I'm worried about Luci finding her way home
    Eos Amaterasu: hi luci!
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, there she is
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am in Kirstens S21 Build 6
    Eos Amaterasu: how was that?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
    Adams Rubble: I have never had to eject anyone yet so don;t worry Xirana
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Adams Rubble: but good to know you have the power
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Lucinda Lavender: thanks
    Aphrodite Macbain: But I can eject by right clicking on their avi
    Aphrodite Macbain: and selecting eject or bloc, rport, freeze
    Eos Amaterasu: rare that you may need to use it, but then it's good to be able to

    Lucinda Lavender: wanted to say that the first time I looked at the options for ejecting it was not there...then it was

    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): good Adams!!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting Luci
    Adams Rubble: the only times I needed to eject someone was not in PaB and I dod not have the power. hehe
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Ah yes, there is a freeze option somewhere?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: along with the others
    Eos Amaterasu imagines a six-gun with "eject" capability....
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I see it
    Eliza Madrigal: loaded avatars
    Eos Amaterasu: quick-draw
    Aphrodite Macbain: peacekeepers

    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): What would 'derender' do?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: sounds painful!
    Aphrodite Macbain: melt them
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    Eos Amaterasu: gnawing, gnashing teeth
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I know there's all kind of people in SL... but as you have said.. with viewer 2 it's not possible, if I have good understood
    Eliza Madrigal: Xirana are you in Mieum sim or Bieup?
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): You can't R-click on someone in V2?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): Bieup
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, then it should show....
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, I can clic and block
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): not eject
    Eos Amaterasu: make your Play as Being group active
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): don't know what happens to the one if I 'block'
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it's active yet
    Aphrodite Macbain: that is a beautiful costume you are wearing Rubble

    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): all of you are using Poenix?
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I am
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): most of us
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I can also change
    Aphrodite Macbain: no I'm not
    Eos Amaterasu: I'm on phoenix
    Eos Amaterasu: phoenix culprit
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): luci,aph and you aren´t
    Aphrodite Macbain: Kirstens
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): the viewer 2 phoenix
    Adams Rubble: If you are on Phoenix you know what the others are using. hehe
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Wonder what it's like in Firestorm?
    Aphrodite Macbain: hot
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): from the same ppl as made by phoenix, just based on viewer 2
    Adams Rubble: Firestorm is neither a fire nor a storm but an attempt at viewer2 :)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth) nods
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): i head of to the science circle event
    Aphrodite Macbain: Think I'll poof now everyone. May the rest of your day be filled with happiness
    Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): bye everyone

                    I try to reinvite Xirana to see if there may have been an issue there...

    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): Eliza, ty but I'm already memeber of the group:)
    Adams Rubble: bye Aprhrodite :)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Bye for now
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye Aph
    Eos Amaterasu: how good is firestorm?
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): It's ok
    Eliza Madrigal: thought I'd see if there may have been a glitch which hap-pened once
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Aph
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): But still not as good as Phoenix
    Adams Rubble: Firestorm does not have the advntages of Viewer2 but has all the disadvnatages from my brief experience
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): I think Kirsten is the best of the V2 clones
    Aphrodite Macbain is Offline
    Eliza Madrigal: what is imprudence closest to? Sun uses that also
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): But it seems to suffer from similar drawbacks :(
    Lucinda Lavender: feeling the need to go..good day for all..
    Adams Rubble: Imprudence is more like Phoenix
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Luci :) Thanks
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye Luci:)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Imprudence is based on V1
    Adams Rubble: bye Lucinda :)
    Eos Amaterasu: bye luc
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): But i don't like the big minimap, it's hardly mini
    Lucinda Lavender: /bye everyone:)
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Bye
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Adams Rubble: Some of these viewers are good for other virtual worlds as well
    Eliza Madrigal: oh
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Yes, iI tried OSgrid
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): wasn't impressed
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I tried Phoenix sometimes a go..if all of you use it I will change again
    Adams Rubble: there are more pople in SL
    Eos Amaterasu thinks of the "Sleep" video.....
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it's only a matter to get used to it

    Adams Rubble: no need to change for others Xirana. Use what works best for you

    Eliza Madrigal: yes I've only dipped my toe into other virtual worlds
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Indeed Xira
    Eliza Madrigal: but I know they are out there, hehe
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): They can stay out there, i don't have the time!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Eos Amaterasu thinks, think outside the world
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok..I will try which one seems best to me:) ty for advice
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Try them all Xira, see which suits you best
    Adams Rubble: Familiarity is good
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): But people who are used to V1 find V2 difficult, and vice versa
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I also will go now...take care all.. and hope I can come to the native visit:)
    Eliza Madrigal: btw really interesting post in the time group Eos, thanks for that...
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Adios Xira
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Xirana
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Xirana
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Adams Rubble: bye Xirana. Hope you can make it :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I have to go as well
    Adams Rubble: if not, no worries
    Adams Rubble: yes, me too
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hasta la vista :))
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): byebye
    Adams Rubble: I have a log to post and reading to do
    Eliza Madrigal: eek
    Aggers (agatha.macbeth): See you later Adams
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, & more...
    Adams Rubble: have a good day everyone
    Eos Amaterasu: bye all!

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