2011.04.19 13:00 - There's No Entrance Exam for Being

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, oo00oo.
    oO0Oo Resident: hey Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Sun!
    oO0Oo Resident: Original Face is looking very well conceived
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;) hi Bruce & Sam
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: hope you are both well
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, new auntie!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Sun, Bruce and Samuo :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi New Auntieeee
    Sunshine Vayandar: *:• •:*.-:¦:- -:¦:-.•:*¨¨*:• YAYYY *:• •:*¨¨*:•.-:¦:- -:¦:-.¨¨*:•
    Bruce Mowbray: congratulations, Sharon!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe ty :D
    Bruce Mowbray: [`·.] APPLAUSE!! [.·´]
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Qt
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Qt.
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi Qt ;)
    Qt Core: Hi all
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Qt.. hi SSL
    Sunshine Vayandar: Bruce - do I ask you if I'd like to take part in Original Face?
    Bruce Mowbray: Fine, but really no need to ask, Sun, unless you have some question.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Wol
    Bruce Mowbray: Anyone who is interested is welcome to join the group.
    Sunshine Vayandar: oh ok - I thought may be there is an entrance exam ;)
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Wol
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi Woly ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: The first meeting will be Monday, 11 a.m., April 25 at Cal's.
    Wol Euler: evening all :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Wol!
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes 11am
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Riddle
    Bruce Mowbray: fortunately, no entrance exam. . .
    Riddle Sideways: hi All
    Bruce Mowbray: just bring your good self.
    Qt Core: hi Wol, Riddle
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Riddle
    Sunshine Vayandar: thank god
    Wol Euler: hello riddle
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Riddle.
    Sunshine Vayandar: or thank Bruce Almighty ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi Riddle ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
    Riddle Sideways: entrance exam?
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm quite excited about the group, actually.
    Bruce Mowbray: It was originally Cal's idea. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: and Darren and I sort of came along. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: and we've been meeting a few times to discuss the possibilities.
    Sunshine Vayandar: ㋡
    Bruce Mowbray: @ Riddle - Sun just asked if there was an exam to get into the Original Face group.
    Riddle Sideways: hope not
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Riddle Sideways: but am two faced
    Sunshine Vayandar: I just wanted to clarify
    Riddle Sideways: whatever that means
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: yeah. . . although the group will have some structure -- the "container" --
    Bruce Mowbray: it will also be quite open to each person's experience.
    Bruce Mowbray: and be very inclusive. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: No set "view" or "way" or prescribed "method" for anything. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: except just being with each other and sharing.... our practice.
    Sunshine Vayandar: sounds great Bruce ;)
    oO0Oo Resident nods .. nice
    oO0Oo Resident nods .. nice
    Wol Euler: sounds like a good idea
    Bruce Mowbray: It is Cal's "good idea."
    Bruce Mowbray: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/Guardians%27_Contributions/Calvino/Groups/Original_Face/Description
    oO0Oo Resident: read the first meeting / outline and so appreciated the thought put in, the comprehensiveness, the clarity, the forms...
    Sunshine Vayandar: I remember seeing the talking stick - when I visited his place
    Bruce Mowbray loves the talking stick. . .
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Bruce Mowbray, in fact, loves to hear anything non-human talk.
    Sunshine Vayandar: like fish?
    Wol Euler: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Riddle Sideways: blub
    Bruce Mowbray also enjoys human talk, of course.
    Sunshine Vayandar: blub & friends
    oO0Oo Resident: blubbing over blabbering?
    Bruce Mowbray: What's happening in your worlds today, folks?
    Riddle Sideways is wondering about Sharon's newest niece
    SophiaSharon Larnia: just being :)
    Wol Euler: getting ready for a week in NY!
    Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyy!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh wow Wol!
    Wol Euler: yeah, looking forward to it :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: can I come?
    Bruce Mowbray: both NYC and Sharon's new niece -- YYYYAAAAYYYY!
    Wol Euler: sure!
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: heh
    Bruce Mowbray: I will be there next month, Wol.
    Sunshine Vayandar: let me pack my bags ;)
    Bruce Mowbray loves that town.
    Wol Euler: okay, don't be late for the flight
    Bruce Mowbray: Have you been to NY before, Wol?
    Wol Euler: it's a great place to visit, but it's also a wonderful city to come home from :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ok will camp at the airport
    Wol Euler: yes, many times
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what part Wol?
    Bruce Mowbray: yayyyy!
    Bruce Mowbray: May I ask where you stay when you visit NYC, Wol?
    Wol Euler: when I was a poor student I used to fly standby to JFK, spend a day in Manhattan and then take the overnight bus home to Toronto
    Wol Euler: it varies, I'm usually there with a group (as this time)
    Sunshine Vayandar: wow really
    Wol Euler: the Friends of the Canadian Opera Company
    Riddle Sideways: .me gets to stay at in-laws house
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Wol Euler: my parents are members since decades now, this is an early birthday present
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice
    Bruce Mowbray: Wow! That's great.
    Wol Euler: 4 operas
    Riddle Sideways: wow
    Wol Euler: in a week
    Bruce Mowbray: When I go (twice a year) I always stay at the HI youth Hostel:
    Bruce Mowbray: http://www.hinewyork.org/
    Wol Euler: looking ...
    Bruce Mowbray: It's not as inexpensive as staying with your in-laws, but otherwise it's the cheapest place in town -- only $30/night.
    Bruce Mowbray: and it's safe, clean, and friendly.
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: and only one block from the subway.
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ;)
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Riddle Sideways: oh in-laws cost (mostly mental health)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
    Wol Euler: wow, they even have an airport shuttle bus :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: lol
    Wol Euler: hehe
    Riddle Sideways: but they take us to show or opera or museum
    Bruce Mowbray: Ironically, I will be taking my sister-in-law (from San Diego) when I visit NY next month.
    Bruce Mowbray: She has never been there...
    Riddle Sideways: how does that work?
    Sunshine Vayandar remembers her few days in NYC
    Bruce Mowbray: he, Riddle.... It's easier to fly into LaGuardia and take the M60 bus -- it drops you off only three blocks from the hostel.
    Riddle Sideways: nice place to visit
    Riddle Sideways: then get out
    SophiaSharon Larnia: my view too, Riddle :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: Bruce seems at home there ;)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and stay away during the summer
    oO0Oo Resident: the law of ins and outs ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: Actually, I find New York to be the friendliest, safest, and easiest-to-get-around-in city I've ever been in.
    Riddle Sideways: gack that city smells in summer
    Bruce Mowbray: I do feel at home there, Sun -- !
    Wol Euler: I like it a lot
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;) I can see that
    Wol Euler: but I'm always glad to leave :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Wol Euler: too big, too busy, too fast ...
    Bruce Mowbray is olfactory disadvantaged -- which might be an "advantage" for New York summers.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but can feel the pulse of the throng
    SophiaSharon Larnia: of humanity there
    oO0Oo Resident: it's a masculine energy city
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Bruce Mowbray: How is that? "Masculine energy"?
    Wol Euler: pushy :)
    Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm.
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps it's only the out-of-towners who  push you around in NY.
    oO0Oo Resident: i'll try and bring an explication at some point Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Wol Euler: that's true actually. Pushy is the wrong word
    Bruce Mowbray goes to New York for the peace and quiet.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: something outgoing anyway
    Wol Euler: "hurried" is perhaps a better fit
    Bruce Mowbray: (feminine?)
    Bruce Mowbray: yeah, folks seem to hurry a lot. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: gotta look out for those subway doors.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: heh
    Bruce Mowbray: but subways will NOT go unless you let the doors close by themselves -- a metaphor for our time.
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps.
    Wol Euler looks up with eyes wide from astonishment. "Are there really people who pay US$1375 - plus taxes! - for a single night in a hotel?"
    Bruce Mowbray ponders metaphor-koans for our time.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Wol, and MORE than that, actually.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: crazy huh
    Bruce Mowbray: yeppers, crazy -- from my point of view, anyway.
    Wol Euler: the place only gets an 8.2 (out of 10) approval rating too :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: people who pay that much have very high expectations
    Bruce Mowbray: (on the other hand, folks who stay with in-laws might have lower expectations.)
    Wol Euler: how much would you have to pay for a 9?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :0
    Wol Euler: I suspect that may be true
    Bruce Mowbray: The hostel where I stay costs about $30/night -- That's for a bunk in a 12-person dormitory.
    Wol Euler: I'm inclined to think that the more you pay, the likelier you are to find fault
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes me too
    Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, Wol.
    Riddle Sideways: yep low expectations
    Bruce Mowbray: Does "expectations" really mean "preferences"?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and that view extends to expectations in services in general, in my experience, that entitlement
    Sunshine Vayandar: bye byee all time for me to go - take care ;)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Sun :)
    Wol Euler: bye sun!
    Qt Core: bye sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;) bye Auntie ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Sun!
    Riddle Sideways: love watching waiter insult people they expect tips from
    oO0Oo Resident: bye sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;) waves
    Riddle Sideways: bye sun
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its a view that I'm very uncomfortable with
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i don't know how it is in other countries
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but I can see how some Americans can be viewed a certain way
    Bruce Mowbray: in Scotland, it is an insult to give a tip.
    Wol Euler: huh
    Bruce Mowbray: I found that out the hard way.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: But she was very nice about it, actually.
    Bruce Mowbray: She saw me as an ignorant American. . . and set about educating me.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Riddle Sideways: sorry gotta go by
    Wol Euler: bye riddle, take care
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Riddle
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Riddle!
    oO0Oo Resident: bye Riddle
    Bruce Mowbray: I find it curious that some folks find it insulting to be the recipient of a gift.
    Qt Core: some may see it as a vague form of bribery, not for the service you got but for having some favors next time you get there
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ah
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've tipped bartenders for that reason
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I understand, Qt, but since I was only a traveler passing through, --- maybe that's why she was so nice in educating me about Scottish customs.
    Wol Euler nods.
    oO0Oo Resident: aye
    Bruce Mowbray: So, tipping bartenders is a sort of insurance policy?
    Bruce Mowbray: or, perhaps, a down payment?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nah, just make a stronger drink next time
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Bruce Mowbray drinks to tipping bartenders, then!
    Bruce Mowbray wonders if he gets enough stiff drinks -- Will he see his original face?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thinks the $ amt comes out even in the end anyway
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
    Bruce Mowbray: The value of money is, after all, only what we perceive it to be.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i think alcohol probably prohibits any deep introspect Bruce :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: or -- perhaps alcohol ALLOWS and ENCOUAGES some to do introspection -- although that would be very difficult to prove, I suspect.  Hard to be "awake" if drunk.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its removes some sort of face anyway
    Bruce Mowbray: for sure!
    Bruce Mowbray: It seems to work differently for different folks.
    oO0Oo Resident thinks of 'state dependency'
    Bruce Mowbray: Maybe, if all the faces can be removed, the drinker will FINALLY find his original one.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but when you seriously explore certain aspects of being, i think anything that creates the possibility of losing control is dangerous
    Bruce Mowbray: (in a gutter).
    oO0Oo Resident: common one is.. so and so can only get in touch with feelings after a few drinks.. etc
    Bruce Mowbray: But isn't CONTROL itself, a barrier to awareness?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this a conversation that could be extended to other substances
    Bruce Mowbray: I would love to hear more about that idea, Sharon,
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and yes i agree that its a barrier to understanding
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "substance."
    Bruce Mowbray listens (for a change.)
    oO0Oo Resident: there are many styles and modes for covering our true nature, and I feel we do work at the coal face of 'control' Bruce in exploring
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but to be confronted with whatever is underlying your defense mechanisms has be approached very carefully
    oO0Oo Resident: having a willingness means we work with the boundaries of our tendencies
    Bruce Mowbray: life at the edge, huh?
    oO0Oo Resident: yes Sharon
    oO0Oo Resident: gentleness is needed
    Bruce Mowbray: much gentleness and empathy for oneself, indeed.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i hope someone will edit my typos
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: but every exploration might involve dangers.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: (no worries -- I will edit the typos -- says the ex-English teacher).
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    oO0Oo Resident: distinction between what threatens 'ego', and true danger, is an interesting one
    Bruce Mowbray: To bravely type typos where no typos have been typed before!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it feels dangerous to me to talk about this :)
    oO0Oo Resident: what is the feeling/s SSL?
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh! "Distinction between "ego-threats" and "true danger...."
    Bruce Mowbray: What is "true danger"?
    oO0Oo Resident: not the concepts
    oO0Oo Resident: but generally we are threatened by conceptual layers
    oO0Oo Resident: true danger is a tiger jumping onto you... literally. Concept danger is laying awake at night worrying about something abstract
    Bruce Mowbray: Didn't the 'conceptual layers get born out of our fears - in the first place?
    oO0Oo Resident: i would say ignorance comes first, Bruce
    oO0Oo Resident: one framework
    Bruce Mowbray: we fear what we are ignorant of?
    oO0Oo Resident: we are afraid, because we misunderstand things
    Bruce Mowbray: We build layers of conception over what we are ignorant of, perhaps.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i'm not saying this right, but a part of me feels that thoughts are things, and by lowering some boundaries, we call to ourselves what we fear, or something like that
    Bruce Mowbray: good point, Sharon. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: and then we come to realize that thoughts are NOT things.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: an energetic relationship
    Bruce Mowbray: they are no-things.
    oO0Oo Resident: the energy is key
    oO0Oo Resident: the awareness
    SophiaSharon Larnia: they are things in how they are perceived in a certain reality
    oO0Oo Resident: particularly of the feelings themselves
    oO0Oo Resident: not the storyline
    Bruce Mowbray: AHHHH! So, follow your energy and see what it reveals....?
    oO0Oo Resident: watch it rise and fall
    SophiaSharon Larnia: could be flowers and light, or demons
    oO0Oo Resident: anything
    Bruce Mowbray: The watching is all, then?
    oO0Oo Resident: the dishes still have to be cleaned
    Bruce Mowbray: ha!
    Bruce Mowbray: I Do understand about the dishes!
    Bruce Mowbray: I find it "awakening" to see what the "imperatives" in life seem to be. . . and to watch those.
    Wol Euler: brb
    Wol Euler: something in my eye
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    oO0Oo Resident: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yikes
    oO0Oo Resident: phoenix meltdown?
    Bruce Mowbray: For example, attending to a severe leg cramp -- and attending to a homeless person on the streets of New York -- sometimes have the same "imperative" feeling for me.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the watching is all? to do that i can only dissociate from my self
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and im not sure if that's really possible
    Bruce Mowbray: Who is the watcher, then? (a koan)
    Bruce Mowbray: Alas, time for me to attend to the "imperative" of getting supper.
    Wol Euler: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bruce :)
    Wol Euler: bon appetit, bruce
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: May you all have a safe and happy evening.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) you too
    Wol Euler: you too (most accidents happen in the home :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) bye for now, have fun
    Wol Euler: bye Sharon, take care
    Qt Core: bye
    Wol Euler: wb sam
    oO0Oo Resident: ty... crashed
    oO0Oo Resident: i wanted to respond to Sharon's comment before i crashed
    Wol Euler: please do, she'll read the log
    oO0Oo Resident: my sense that mindfulness/awareness seems to me to be more about becoming more thoroughly ourselves, rather than dissociating
    oO0Oo Resident: or something other
    Wol Euler: yes, like washing the mud off of a car :)
    Wol Euler: so you can see what's underneath
    oO0Oo Resident: if a tree is falling, and we see it coming... we have the presence to step out of the way
    oO0Oo Resident: often what we hope to be and fear will be though... if it feels very real we buy into the concept/storylinel...
    Wol Euler nods.
    oO0Oo Resident: so
    oO0Oo Resident: emotions are built out of the storyline
    oO0Oo Resident: buying into them reinforces the story and creates causes for future occurrences
    oO0Oo Resident: much of our life is spent in this
    oO0Oo Resident: speaking about myself
    Wol Euler nods.
    oO0Oo Resident: so... to have the bravery to sit with our mind... when a tree is NOT falling on us
    oO0Oo Resident: is pretty safe
    Wol Euler: so much unhappiness and anxiety is generated around things that have not happened yet, and perhaps never will
    oO0Oo Resident: yet threatens our cherished stories at times
    Qt Core: time to go, bye all
    Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
    oO0Oo Resident: :) Q ... gtsy.. ty for being here
    Wol Euler: I should go too, I need to be up earlyish.
    Wol Euler: goodnight sam, take care
    oO0Oo Resident: right-o Wol :) Cheery bye bye :)))
    Wol Euler smiles.

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