2011.04.21 07:00 - Sitting in a wider circle

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

    Waking up and getting organized.

    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Susan
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    iwandertoo Resident: how are you?
    Storm Nordwind: A little sleepy this morning, but otherwise fine. And you?
    iwandertoo Resident: just beginning the day...formulating the "to do" list
    Storm Nordwind: That sounds very organized!
    iwandertoo Resident: an attempt :)
    Storm Nordwind: Take control of the morning before it takes control of you? ;)
    iwandertoo Resident: more convergence...i'm awake...i've these things to do...jot them down...take action
    iwandertoo Resident: saying the same thing?
    Storm Nordwind: Possibly! I find coffee helps me. :)
    iwandertoo Resident: YES!!!!!!
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Yaku
    iwandertoo Resident: waves :)
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Luci
    iwandertoo Resident: waves to Xi, Luci
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Xirana
    Xirana Oximoxi: sorry... I was 'busy' that's why I didn't come to sit
    Lucinda Lavender: good Morning Storm!, Yaku, Susan, Xirana
    Xirana Oximoxi: and again I can't see what I write :(
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Storm, Susan , Luci, Yaku
    Xirana Oximoxi: brb sorry again
    Storm Nordwind: That's a shame Xirana - sometime powercycling your computer and router helps.
    Xirana Oximoxi: back..I had some problems with a leak of water.. yet it seems pk:)
    Xirana Oximoxi: I try to relad

    Letting thoughts pass by.

    Storm Nordwind: Any burning topics? Or shall we sit quietly? Which is always fine. :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: hello
    Lucinda Lavender: nothing burning for me:)...
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome back Xirana!
    Lucinda Lavender: except I do want to try using ale in the pizza dough:)
    Storm Nordwind: haha! good!
    Xirana Oximoxi: ty.. but this time didn't work.. but it's not important..I can read all you write
    Storm Nordwind: Sorry to hear that Xirana
    Xirana Oximoxi: don't worry, it's ok:)
    Lucinda Lavender: nice for you Yaku ...travelling:)
    Xirana Oximoxi: I've been thinking about a topic.. and I have remembered one day we were talking about to keep our mind quiet and let the thoughts pass by without identifing them
    Storm Nordwind: Yes
    Storm Nordwind: It takes a little practice, but it's worth it

    Watchingthe scenery pass by.

    Xirana Oximoxi: Sotorm has explained that you can 'see' the thoughts, but you let them pass, if not you generate more thoughts
    Xirana Oximoxi: well the question is that I've understood what you meant travelling with a train.. I was seeing all the outside but was not identifing everything:)
    Storm Nordwind: That's an interesting analogy!
    Xirana Oximoxi: my doubt was, because I didn't understand it was possible to 'see' thought without identifing, thinking about them
    Storm Nordwind: I've not looked at it "in reverse" - so to speak
    Lucinda Lavender: change of scearery...
    iwandertoo Resident: what is meant by "identifying"?
    Lucinda Lavender: scenery
    Xirana Oximoxi: I mean to recognise a house, a tree, a landscape, a dog, a village...
    Storm Nordwind: I can answer that question, Susan, by describing the most common early problem with trying to do this... what I call the "parallel mirror" syndrome
    Xirana Oximoxi: when you see through the window... everything pass under your eyes, bbut you don't put a name to every object (sorry because I'm sure I explain it very bad)
    iwandertoo Resident: (Xirana, it's me - just want to ensure i understand)
    Storm Nordwind: You watch a thought, but then notice that your next thought is that you are watching a thought, and the next that you are watching the though of a thought - and so on... It's difficult at first to drop the idea of "I am what is thinking"
    Xirana Oximoxi: ty Susan.. but probably it's not very well explained:)
    Xirana Oximoxi: I think, the topic came because people who do meditation can keep their mind 'quiet'

    Practice and different approaches.

    Storm Nordwind: I had some friends in the UK who described the exercise as though becoming a "Silent Watcher"... and it does take some practice.
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes! I'm sure it's a matter to practice
    Storm Nordwind: Some people attempt to do it by philosophical questioning, saying "What is it that is thinking and having these thoughts?" Others are more "just try it" people! :)
    Storm Nordwind: There is of course the question: "Why bother trying? Is there any benefit to detaching awareness and thought?" Which is a fair question! :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: I think I'm a little bit of the two... but better if I just try it ..it will be easy to understand and to practice...
    Storm Nordwind: There are yogis and there are scholars! :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: well... I'm sure that sometimes is also healty to know how to stop thinking ... probably later you get better answers
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)))
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Riddle
    Xirana Oximoxi: hello Riddle
    Yakuzza Lethecus: morning riddle
    Riddle Sideways: Hi EveryBody, sorry am late
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Riddle:)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Storm Nordwind: We were lazily talking about watching thoughts pass without identifying with them

    session_002.jpgSeeing ourselves,
    sitting in a wider circle.

    Lucinda Lavender: thiinking about how on one level we sit in this small circle...and then ona world level we sit in a much larger one and yet it is all just a thought
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes! and how one can be a scholar all her life... or someone that takes actions:)
    Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
    Riddle Sideways: by just watching the thoughts
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes! all of us are only a thought in our minds... is that what you mean Luci?
    Lucinda Lavender: not sure...just that I find sitting with others on the computer screen and more sepatately in the world are an interesting thoughtd
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes! me too... amazing and interesting..and I like it very much!!! :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi Blu
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Bleu
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Bleu:)
    Bleu Oleander: hi all
    Lucinda Lavender: hi Bleu:0
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, especially when you get to know the ppl over time you develop a theorie of mind to some extend
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bleu
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and that brings depth to the interaction
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Yakuzza Lethecus: of course i am not sure if my concept of other ppl is true tho:)
    Lucinda Lavender: depth of understanding...
    Riddle Sideways: the thoughts we idntify as defining others
    Storm Nordwind: If we were doing this 20 years ago - say - and just communicating by telephone, but still in a group chat, i wonder if we'd be imagining the physical environment for each of us? With virtual worlds, that step is filled in for us because we see the "physical" as here!
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...and we present some aspects of personality perhaps?
    Storm Nordwind: Yes - more easily visible than audible.

    Live performances...

    Xirana Oximoxi: sure it's very important the image of all of us together..
    Xirana Oximoxi: also, for exemple, if I go to a live concert in sl it's not at all the same as if I hear a CD:)
    Storm Nordwind: Would you like to say more about that Xirana?
    Xirana Oximoxi: welll.. someehow I fell like if I really have been to a concert, or to a party, or to an exhibition... and my opinon about why it happens like this is because I'm really aware of the fact that behind avatars are real person sharing this moment
    Xirana Oximoxi: sorry
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you!
    Xirana Oximoxi: yw:)
    Lucinda Lavender: I sometimes step back to my mental image of myself at age 3 or so wearing easter dress and hat with a goofy expression that is kind of delighting in something said to me...we get placed in front of the camera and are feeling our presence freshly.
    Storm Nordwind: Aha Luci - amazing image. And it's fine until the demands of the grown-ups become too tiresome and we long for familiar surroundings!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example in the live concerts in secondlife the artists are mostly greeting the ppl by their names when they arrive, well that also might increase the propability of tips of course :)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s nice to see that you´ll become greeted in the livestream of an artist, which creates some more connection
    Xirana Oximoxi: well.. I also thing musicien here need to feel they have real public
    Storm Nordwind: Not sure about the tips Yaku... it doesn't seem to increase the number of donations we get in SL from the donations board immediately to the SW of where we're sitting! ;)
    Storm Nordwind: That's true Xirana - as a musician myself, that kind of "iterative feedback" is important to a performance.
    Xirana Oximoxi: have you made a concert in SL, Storm?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, greeting an avatar is in quotes partly taken from our interaction with ppl in real life
    Storm Nordwind: And as a public speaker too.
    Storm Nordwind: No just in RL
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we greet everyone, or are supposed to greet everyone
    Storm Nordwind: Not sure about "supposed" - but courtesy costs nothing :)
    Bleu Oleander: maybe you should sing Storm :)

    ... vs. recorded performances.

    Riddle Sideways: back at the CD vs Live... the composition was reworked and rethought over and over with many different voices. Live is trying to repeat that in one go
    Riddle Sideways: audience might be waiting for them to goof
    Storm Nordwind: And live performance that just tries "to repeat that in one go" is setting itself up for failure - and missing an opportunity
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting thought...the live music experience is very fresh for me...I love making it and feel that everyone put so much energy into thier attention in that situation
    Lucinda Lavender: it feels like molding an experience to me

    Listening while speaking.

    Storm Nordwind: A good speaker needs to listen all the while they are speaking, so as to mold and inflect as they go along, according to the second by second response of an audience. A good musician will do that too in a live performance - so that it becomes a joint creation of musician and audience.
    Lucinda Lavender: a lot of being ...
    Lucinda Lavender: when I speak with children and read to them...I can make eye contactit feels like 2L brings a little of eye contact in viortually
    Lucinda Lavender: virtually
    Storm Nordwind: When I speak with people - or "to" a crowd of people - in RL, it feels like I am observing with my whole body, not just my eyes or ears.

    Breaking up - and Luci's "homework".

    Bleu Oleander: bye everyone :)
    Storm Nordwind: Bye all!
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Xirana Oximoxi: bye to all:)
    Storm Nordwind didn't mean all
    Riddle Sideways: bye blu and yak
    Xirana Oximoxi: ah ok:)..but I also must go... and ty for this interesting time!!!! :)
    Storm Nordwind: It's fun to be with friends :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Xirana Oximoxi: byebye: friends!!! :)
    Storm Nordwind: Bye bye! :))
    Lucinda Lavender: oops...need to go:)thanks for theis conversation:)...will think about listening with the whole body as I read today:)
    Riddle Sideways: later, my good friends
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Bye then :)

    As people left, a huge cloud of golden sparks exploded from the donations noticeboard as someone made a contribution of more than L$500! :)

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